Cycling & weight training

stu-bim

diy wrote:

The best combo IMO would be Mtb and high-rep low weight, because in Mtb upper body strength can help and high rep low weight gives tone and mobility.

I disagree with that, high rep/lower weight doesn't add tone and mobility, although this is a widely held misconception. Spot training doesn't make an area toned or lean or all cyclists would have wirely legs. Varying rep schemes can be very good at inducing hypertrophy which will increase muscle size and shape a muscle differently but high reps won't make it lean unless you lose the fat. You can do 5,000 sit ups a day but if you are overweight you won't have visible abs.

diy wrote:

Having said that if you don't lift properly and at least half don't, you'll end up with all the problems of both.

This is very likely

pinno

Flat stomach in the kitchen, abs in the gym.

diy

Fair point Stu-bim, but there are athletic advantages to doing high rep weight workouts, to complement endurance sports.

Personally I do a mix of high rep cardio weight training and low rep traditional bodybuilding. I use the high rep cardio, to touch all the muscles i've missed in my big weights days and give me an all over cardio workout that I don't get from cycling.

My winter routine is usually:
monday : double spin + high rep weights ~ (This is 5 blocks + warmup, abs and stretch and the max wight is about 35kg)
tuesday: Chest and triceps weights (e.g. 3 sets bench press 10 reps 80kg down to 4-5 130kg, occasionally an ego press at more
Wednesday: spin + back and biceps
Thursday Wattbike + full stretch
Friday rest
Saturday : Spin + wattbike + high rep weights
Sunday cycle

I don't always find time to do it all

imposter2.0

Just in case anyone needs reminding just how little a certain forum member has learnt in five years (at least) - or conversely, just how far his trolling has come in a similar time, this thread from 2011 is worth a read.

viewtopic.php?f=40011&t=12796394

I know it's 18 pages, but grab a coffee and set aside 30 minutes or so. Some excellent and genuinely useful info in there, sadly counter-balanced with some familiar trolling attempts from our resident who manages to underline the saying that those who do not learn from history are destined to repeat it. That's certainly true in his case.

frisbee

dennisn wrote:

Bikes`n`guns wrote:

So anyway. Weights ,,,

NO. That's not the point. Don't wait for someone to tell you how to improve. Don't assume that any single method is the answer for you and / or everyone. The answer is most likely in your head, if you use it, and not particularly in your legs.

I'm going to try drinking bleach, it works really well on toilets, so it should make a big difference to my cycling.

diy

Evidence that body builders can ride bicycles

pinno

diy wrote:

Fair point Stu-bim, but there are athletic advantages to doing high rep weight workouts, to complement endurance sports.

Personally I do a mix of high rep cardio weight training and low rep traditional bodybuilding. I use the high rep cardio, to touch all the muscles i've missed in my big weights days and give me an all over cardio workout that I don't get from cycling.

My winter routine is usually:
monday : double spin + high rep weights ~ (This is 5 blocks + warmup, abs and stretch and the max wight is about 35kg)
tuesday: Chest and triceps weights (e.g. 3 sets bench press 10 reps 80kg down to 4-5 130kg, occasionally an ego press at more
Wednesday: spin + back and biceps
Thursday Wattbike + full stretch
Friday rest
Saturday : Spin + wattbike + high rep weights
Sunday cycle

I don't always find time to do it all

Not sure what merit this has. Seems that you are primarily a weight lifter and not a cyclist.
I thought this thread was about how weights/gym work can compliment cycling rather than the other way around.

diy

Interesting, since I thought it was about it being possible to do both and what the benefits and limitations would be.

on the subject of being a cyclist - I like to keep fit and I like to do it in an enjoyable way. I ride MTB, road and occasionally TT. I do more real cycling in the summer months. I got bored doing long all day rides and prefer to do shorter faster rides.

I accept my fitness routine is not ideal to develop as a cyclist. However I'm 44 - I ain't gonna break any personal bests now.

dennisn

frisbee wrote:

dennisn wrote:

Bikes`n`guns wrote:

So anyway. Weights ,,,

NO. That's not the point. Don't wait for someone to tell you how to improve. Don't assume that any single method is the answer for you and / or everyone. The answer is most likely in your head, if you use it, and not particularly in your legs.

I'm going to try drinking bleach, it works really well on toilets, so it should make a big difference to my cycling.

So wait for someone to tell you what to do with your life. Sounds like a great plan to me. As for the bleach, give it a try. That's really using your brain.

dennisn

Imposter wrote:

Just in case anyone needs reminding just how little a certain forum member has learnt in five years (at least) - or conversely, just how far his trolling has come in a similar time, this thread from 2011 is worth a read.

viewtopic.php?f=40011&t=12796394

I know it's 18 pages, but grab a coffee and set aside 30 minutes or so. Some excellent and genuinely useful info in there, sadly counter-balanced with some familiar trolling attempts from our resident who manages to underline the saying that those who do not learn from history are destined to repeat it. That's certainly true in his case.

C'mon, lighten up. Be like the rest of us and just admit that you're "pack fill" and be happy that you CAN ride a bike.

pinno

diy wrote:

I accept my fitness routine is not ideal to develop as a cyclist. However I'm 44 - I ain't gonna break any personal bests now.

I think you're putting a ceiling on things due to your age. It's your perception but I can unequivocally contradict that. There was an article about training in your 30's, 40's and 50's on the BR homepage. It makes interesting reading.

Have a look at this too, especially the age brackets:

http://www.vtta.org.uk/competitions/?year=2015

The more you cycle, the greater the stamina you have and it has an accumulative effect. The max heart rate (220 minus age) may be less but that has little to do with cardiac efficiency. As you know diet is key to any effective exercise/training and age can and will require a change in diet to accommodate that. I know plenty of 50+ riders who can give me a kicking and I am as old as you.

Here is what I wrote in another thread, edited for this context:

Pinno wrote:

Gym work does have it's benefits but can only serve primarily as a base for strength and ironing out inbalances and weaknesses due to just cycling.

1. Core stability is a component that can be worked on. Cyclists build natural abdominal strength but sometimes the lower back can be out of balance so working on back strength is helpful.



(That was Marco Pantani in the gym following his leg break.)
2. Leg strength via leg press/squat machine/leg curl has it's benefits right in the beginning. However, ANY leg work in the gym A: does not replicate the pedal stroke and B: shortens the muscle so that leg speed and flexibility is compromised. I spent lots of time in the gym after hip replacement No3. Once I had achieved the basic muscle mass, it was time to swap the gym for pedalling.
Note: The leg press for example, without weights was an approx. weight (they kept it well lubricated) of 35kg's. That's quite a high resistance in pedalling terms.
3. There is always a trade off between power and endurance. The greater the power (Chris Hoy), the lower the endurance and vice versa (Chris Froome). Two extremes at the end of each spectrum.
4. The heart and lungs' ability to provide the muscle with glycogen and oxygen over a length of time is critical. The ability of the muscle to quickly get rid of lactic acid is equally critical. Extra muscle mass requires extra oxygen and glycogen, lower muscle mass requires less - again the trade off.
5. Emphasise on the slow twitch muscle fibres (cycling) rather than fast twitch muscle group (gym/weight lifting):

Fast twitch muscles are good for rapid movements like jumping to catch a ball or sprinting for the bus. They contract quickly, but get tired fast, as they consume lots of energy. Most of your muscles are made up of a mixture of both slow and fast twitch muscle fibres.
Slow twitch muscle fibres are good for endurance activities like long distance running or cycling. They can work for a long time without getting tired.

Sustaining even and high energy output requires condition. Condition is a combination of the following:

A. Fitness
B. Stamina (I know a guy in his late 70's that has been cycling for over 50 years and he has built up so much stamina, he can twaddle along at 16 to 17 mph all day long).
C. Strength
D. The ability to recover whilst riding and the ability to recover quickly after a bike ride.
E. Endurance (not always physical).

imposter2.0

diy wrote:

I accept my fitness routine is not ideal to develop as a cyclist. However I'm 44 - I ain't gonna break any personal bests now.

At 44 there's actually no reason why you couldn't improve your cycling significantly. It might mean less time in the gym though..

diy

The one I'd like to bag is the SDW double in under 24 hours (200 miles off-road, ~25kft climb). I did it just over 25, which is technically a fail as it doesn't count if its not in the same day. 6 punctures didn't help. Ive done the single in 10hrs, but the night section seems to rob you of focus and the pace comes down significantly, plus 200 miles of chalk and clay on a bike takes its toll and you are lucky if you have one working gear at the end.

Endurance ability is definitively accumulative - I still put in similar times for 100 miles events, both on road and off road, despite hardly ever doing a ride over 50 miles, as part of my training.

My problem is I also do a fair few sailing races and this takes up many weekends in the summer.

amboman

there are some very useful pointers here, I am starting training and wanted to do weights/resistance training to build core strength any advice on types of exercise- I am after ideally a suggested core routine. Any (sensible) advice will be greatly received. Thanks in advance

diy

Core strength is probably one of the areas where you don't need to use resistance as much. Body weight is sufficient.

amboman

Thanks-what sort of exercises? just plank crunches and situps or something else?

imposter2.0

Is this core strength specifically for cycling? If so, I would have thought that riding your bike would give you all the workout that your core muscles need for cycling?

stu-bim

Imposter wrote:

Is this core strength specifically for cycling? If so, I would have thought that riding your bike would give you all the workout that your core muscles need for cycling?

But if your core is weak then you will limit your cycling to what your core can handle until it gets stronger

How will this help you ride more? It will probably force you to ride less.

stu-bim

amboman wrote:

there are some very useful pointers here, I am starting training and wanted to do weights/resistance training to build core strength any advice on types of exercise- I am after ideally a suggested core routine. Any (sensible) advice will be greatly received. Thanks in advance

GCN video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmHqBYFYwmc

Cycling weekly

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/videos/fitness/improve-your-core-with-these-cycling-specific-sequences-video

diy

Some more here:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/beginne ... -guide.htm

amboman

Thanks guys its really appreciated

pinno

amboman wrote:

there are some very useful pointers here, I am starting training and wanted to do weights/resistance training to build core strength any advice on types of exercise- I am after ideally a suggested core routine. Any (sensible) advice will be greatly received. Thanks in advance

Are you kidding??

pinno

Anyone can benefit from increasing core stability and core strength.

imposter2.0

stu-bim wrote:

Imposter wrote:

Is this core strength specifically for cycling? If so, I would have thought that riding your bike would give you all the workout that your core muscles need for cycling?

But if your core is weak then you will limit your cycling to what your core can handle until it gets stronger

How will this help you ride more? It will probably force you to ride less.

Absolutely. If you have some kind of deficiency or diagnosed back issue, then it will probably help. I suppose I was really talking about people who do not have any pre-existing core issues.

diy

It depends what you do for a living, but in a world where we increasingly sit at desks, elbows/palms supporting us while we type on computers, most people could benefit from core and lower back exercises*. In addition unlike legs, chest and arms, these are very small muscles, so the chances of bulking up some cycling detrimental lean muscle kg, there really isn't a down side.

*with the exception of some of the side/oblique exercises which are easy to do wrong and most likely to cause injury.

amboman

what about doing yoga or pilates? would these be of greater benefit rather than doing gym work mentioned above with regards to core work/stability increase for cycling? or would it be worth doing both the gym type training (situps crunches etc) and Yoga

dennisn

Imposter wrote:

Is this core strength specifically for cycling? If so, I would have thought that riding your bike would give you all the workout that your core muscles need for cycling?

So, let me get this straight. All you need to do to become a better cyclist is simply ride?
Things like stretching, rest. diet, family, friends, home, job, etc., etc. are simply wastes of time, money, and effort if all you want is to be a better cyclist.
Let's put it all in perspective. Be a hermit and ride if you want to make it to the top. Sounds like a good plan.

milemuncher1

amboman wrote:

what about doing yoga or pilates? would these be of greater benefit rather than doing gym work mentioned above with regards to core work/stability increase for cycling? or would it be worth doing both the gym type training (situps crunches etc) and Yoga

Yoga and Pilates will strengthen your core, just not to the same extent / in the same way bicycle specific core training will. If it was me, and I wanted to get my core up to a standard where it would be beneficial for riding, I would get a cheap second hand bike, and some sort of turbo trainer, and practice riding the bike, with hands on the hoods, then see how long I could keep pedalling, with the body in the same position, but hands away from the bars. This would tell me how, and which of the core muscles needed work, to best help with stability, and strength. I would progress on to repeating the excercises, with the hands behind my head, once I'd sorted out the initial stability strength work, in order to further increase the initial core strength gain.

imposter2.0

amboman wrote:

what about doing yoga or pilates? would these be of greater benefit rather than doing gym work mentioned above with regards to core work/stability increase for cycling? or would it be worth doing both the gym type training (situps crunches etc) and Yoga

If you are only just starting training on a bike (and presumably your objective is to improve as a cyclist) then all I would concentrate on for now is cycling. Yoga or pilates at this stage is fine if you can spare the time, but it is unlikely to enhance your cycling fitness, unless (as mentioned previously) there is actually some functional issue with your core that needs addressing.

milemuncher1

dennisn wrote:

Imposter wrote:

Is this core strength specifically for cycling? If so, I would have thought that riding your bike would give you all the workout that your core muscles need for cycling?

So, let me get this straight. All you need to do to become a better cyclist is simply ride?
Things like stretching, rest. diet, family, friends, home, job, etc., etc. are simply wastes of time, money, and effort if all you want is to be a better cyclist.
Let's put it all in perspective. Be a hermit and ride if you want to make it to the top. Sounds like a good plan.

No, if you want to get a load of training done, which would otherwise necessitate lots of different, separate, excersises, and equipment, all in one convenient package (C.V. training, key cycling specific muscle conditioning, and the like) riding your bike, is going to be the best way to achieve it. You also need to make sure that you take resting / diet / work life balance, into account, or you'll end up with no mates, injured, and knackered. Which would demotivate most people.