Paris Roubaix 2016 *SPOILERS*

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Comments

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,906
    OnYourRight wrote:
    I notice the bookies believe Sagan is likeliest to win this, edging out Cancellara. Perhaps they make the mistake of taking into account his past performance on cobbles rather than his theoretical ability as predicated on his back angle.

    We'll see on Sunday eh?

    I'll be surprised if he makes the podium.
    _
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,399
    I'm now far more interested to see who rides cobbles on tops or drops than I am about the actual race...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,906
    Look, it was a small point and I felt the need to defend it, 'cos I is right.

    http://inrng.com/2016/04/the-unbearable ... ing-sagan/
    Mario Cipollini met him out on the bike – as happens – and told him to get a bike fit because he looked clumsy on the bike.
    _
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 8,747
    As I said any concerns about Sagan's position re. cobbles were nothing to do with whether he had a flat back but how far orwards he was relative to the bottom bracket. Whether that was ever really relevant or whether his psition has changed he's proven it's not an issue now.

    Obviously being aero is beneficial but that isn't unique to Roubaix and there is more to that than a flat back anyway. Sean Kelly did ok at Roubaix he was hardly known as having a Wiggins style position was he?
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,399
    Lets get the peace and love back with a cute video from Charlie Wegelius

    https://twitter.com/wegelius/status/718349683752640512
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,172
    Maybe Sagan isn't the most aerodynamic, but we're just seen him hold off a chase from a flying Cancellara, so he can't be that bad.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • dish_dash
    dish_dash Posts: 5,569
    RichN95 wrote:
    Maybe Sagan isn't the most aerodynamic, but we're just seen him hold off a chase from a flying Cancellara, so he can't be that bad.

    Having ridden both, it's very different roads and terrain. Flanders (apart from the last five km) is twistier and much more up and down. Roubaix is flat and wide roads... so aero position helps.

    Key thing about the flat cobbles is ability to get your weight to the back, very little pressure on the handlebars (so minimal weight on your hands) and a heavy gear to get the power down. That all means activating your core and flatter back helps.
  • graeme_s-2
    graeme_s-2 Posts: 3,382
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    2016_tour_de_san_luis_stage2_world_champion_peter_sagan1a.jpg
    C'mon Rick, is he even racing in that pic?

    Maybe a more relevant look at his position from the Ronde thread:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    giphy.gif
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,906
    Yeah, looks all hunched over the front.

    As the guys say, not behind the BB.
    _
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,399
    You mean his elbows are bent? :lol:
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • onyourright
    onyourright Posts: 509
    Sagan won Flanders with an average speed of over 41 km/h. Paris–Roubaix is usually only a couple of km/h faster. If aerodynamics matter in one of these races, they matter in the other.

    Sagan’s implausible calves cannot be very aerodynamic, but his position must be pretty aerodynamic these days, based on how well he time trials now. And whatever’s wrong with his position, he’s obviously comfortable enough in it to attack on the cobbles after six hours. He’s a famously good bike handler and that can only help his chances on the rough stuff.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,906
    Pfft whatever. His best Roubaix was 6th and that was an unusual edition with a big block headwind.


    He's said himself his position doesn't lend itself well to PR as it does to other races. By all means put your money on him!
    _
  • onyourright
    onyourright Posts: 509
    No matter how good he his, one of the other 200 riders is more likely to win. Which puts you in a pretty safe position from which to bet against him. But he remains the favourite.

    I agree there’s something unorthodox about his position. But there is equally something fascinating about it. Watching him in full flow is downright mesmerising. You know you’re witnessing something on the outer boundary of the humanly possible. And yet the only glimmer of effort is a wry, asymmetrical twitch of his lip.
  • timoid.
    timoid. Posts: 3,133
    Sagan has to have a chance. Boonen and Cancellera are on the wane and there is no outstanding candidate to step up and own Roubaix. This will be even more the case from next year.

    A peak Boonen or Cancellara would leave Sagan in the dust. But both are well past peak.
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • graeme_s-2
    graeme_s-2 Posts: 3,382
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Pfft whatever. His best Roubaix was 6th and that was an unusual edition with a big block headwind.
    His record at P-R is the reason I'm not expecting huge things from him on Sunday. I'm just not convinced it's down to the flatness of his back.

    His best chance will be making it into the Velodrome in a select group, similar to Degenkolb's win last year. Especially as Degenkolb isn't there this year and Kristoff isn't looking quite 100%.

    Sagan is obviously aerodynamic enough to hold off a chasing group on flat roads, as we've seen him do it on a number of occasions, as recently as last Sunday. What we haven't seen him demonstrate is the ability to create a gap in the first place on terrain like P-R.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,399
    Last word on Sagan - Remember when he was young he was a short steep hill Puncheur rider, more akin to a Gilbert than a Boonen or a Cancellara so he has already gone undergone quite a transformation from the skinny MTBer he used to be...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • EKIMIKE
    EKIMIKE Posts: 2,232
    ddraver wrote:
    Last word on Sagan - Remember when he was young he was a short steep hill Puncheur rider, more akin to a Gilbert than a Boonen or a Cancellara so he has already gone undergone quite a transformation from the skinny MTBer he used to be...

    I dunno, he was always mixing it in the bunch gallops too. That's partly why he was such a sensation.

    Anyway, I'm hoping for a three-way battle royale between Vanmarcke, Boonen and Cancellara - the three best riders on the cobbles by a mile. Maybe throw Stybar in there for fun.
    Canyon Endurace CF 2014 | Canyon Ultimate CF 2010
  • takethehighroad
    takethehighroad Posts: 6,665
    Does anyone have alink to the bib numbers etc? I like to print it off and refer to it to help with identification (maybe a tip for Carlton?)
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,172
    TakeTheHighRoad wrote:
    Does anyone have alink to the bib numbers etc? I like to print it off and refer to it to help with identification (maybe a tip for Carlton?)
    www.procyclingstats.com is the standard source these days
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • The_Boy
    The_Boy Posts: 3,099
    If Sep wins I'll be furiosa. Two of my ante-post picks for the spring classics will have won in the wrong races, with another race to come. No way Alaphilllipe is going to be up to much in Liege, but still.

    Anyway, now Demare is out I think I'm cheering for Team Spartacus.
    Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy
  • takethehighroad
    takethehighroad Posts: 6,665
    RichN95 wrote:
    TakeTheHighRoad wrote:
    Does anyone have alink to the bib numbers etc? I like to print it off and refer to it to help with identification (maybe a tip for Carlton?)
    http://www.procyclingstats.com is the standard source these days

    I've seen the ones on Steephill and the official site, but they all don't have rider numbers on there.

    I want to be able to see who's off the back, been caught up in crashes etc
  • milton50
    milton50 Posts: 3,856
    That's weird. They usually always have the bib numbers a couple of days before.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,172
    TakeTheHighRoad wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    TakeTheHighRoad wrote:
    Does anyone have alink to the bib numbers etc? I like to print it off and refer to it to help with identification (maybe a tip for Carlton?)
    http://www.procyclingstats.com is the standard source these days

    I've seen the ones on Steephill and the official site, but they all don't have rider numbers on there.

    I want to be able to see who's off the back, been caught up in crashes etc
    The numbers haven't been published yet. PCS will have them up when they are
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • takethehighroad
    takethehighroad Posts: 6,665
    Cheers Rich
  • graeme_s-2
    graeme_s-2 Posts: 3,382
    the-cobbled-classicsweb.gif
    http://cyclingcartoons.com/the-cobbled-classics/

    :)
  • timoid.
    timoid. Posts: 3,133
    Boom has got to be in people's thinking. Especially if it rains. He was a bit unlucky in Flanders and by his own account is bang in form.
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,906
    Forecast is no rain, chunky tailwind.
    _
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    ddraver wrote:
    Yeah but.... Lars is flipping tiny!

    He does look rather small. Like he's out for a ride with his Dad!

    https://youtu.be/oCrL0TyPflg
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    A few photos from the last couple of days...

    26245192851_3a964cb962_z.jpg

    26038564590_5a38a899b9_k.jpg

    26245198801_2f552118eb_k.jpg

    25708670933_8862dc73f4_k.jpg

    25708685843_87ea94df11_z.jpg
    Direct Energie on discs?
  • onyourright
    onyourright Posts: 509
    Good photos, greasedscotsman. Sagan’s back angle is a bit dodgy, though.

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