Future proofing? Best to go discs?
iand-83
Posts: 132
Looking to get rid of my heavy old hybrid and get back on a road bike. Since I last had a road bike disc brakes have now become the in thing. Am I best off future proofing myself by buying a bike with discs?
My budget is around £800 and quite like the look of the Giant Defy 2 disc or a Vitus Zenium disc.
My budget is around £800 and quite like the look of the Giant Defy 2 disc or a Vitus Zenium disc.
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I think discs are best full-stop.ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0
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If by future proofing you mean about the availability of parts, I shouldn't worry about rim brake wheels going away any time soon.
At £800 you'll probably be looking at cable discs which don't stop any better than caliper brakes, are heavier and at the moment you'll have less choice of wheels (and I'm running both systems).0 -
I have both (not on the same bike).
I prefer discs for bad weather. Better stopping, easier to clean the bike afterwards, less damage to wheel rims.
I prefer normal brakes for dry weather. Easier to set up, easier to inspect, easier to replace, more interchangeable between bikes.
It's a tough call based on your riding profile and priorities.0 -
As MRS says - disks probably are the way forward, whether people like it or not. However, don't be concerned with 'future proofing', because there are still people out there happily riding around on 20,30,40 or 50 year old bikes with no issue, and they're not future proof either. In that sense, nothing ever is..0
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At that price point on a road bike rim brakes every time.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0
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Going disc is hardly future proofing as there is no standard yet. You get more bang for your buck with rim brakes.English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0
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Going disc is hardly future proofing as there is no standard yet. You get more bang for your buck with rim brakes.
This is true, QR, 12mm, 15mm through axle, you're more likely to end up with the Betamax of wheels than with rim brakes.0 -
You get more bang for your buck with rim brakes.
Really?
Rim brakes are fine if you don't ride in real hills and stay out of the rain. But many years of riding in all weathers in the Highlands on both types of brake leaves me in no doubt which I'd choose. I didn't miss discs on the Foil whilst I was riding in N Holland but as soon as I brought it back here to the Cotswolds riding on wet mucky roads the limitations were obvious.
Even if you start on mechanical discs (I have them on the Volagi and they're great) you can always swap to hydraulic in time. Hydraulic has the advantage of being much smoother pull than any cable system (disc or rim). Discs also make a wider range of tyre widths easier and there's no doubt that the current trend is for tyres to get wider - either on road or off-road.ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
Going disc is hardly future proofing as there is no standard yet. You get more bang for your buck with rim brakes.
This is true, QR, 12mm, 15mm through axle, you're more likely to end up with the Betamax of wheels than with rim brakes.
It's not. Go QR. You will always be able to get adaptors to make TA hubs QR compatible. And TA, in my experience on the Jamis, are a total waste of time.
There's a few of us who can be objective in this conversation who have the different types of brakes and different mounting systems on our bikes who can give a like-for-like objective comparison.ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
I run a winter bike with hydro discs and my nice bike on normal calipers. For an all weather bike I would probably go discs but, as everyone has said, the standards on discs are still moving so it's not future proofing. Through axle, probably at 12mm, will be the de facto standard for discs as it makes a lot of sense given the tight tolerances on the discs. It I'll take another couple of years still for the industry to gravitate towards one standard. I also think you need hydraulic on discs, and that will be a push at 800 budget0
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I'll say it again: TA are a waste of time on road bikes. They're a PITA for fitting wheels and don't make it any easier and they make no difference to disc rub. I've had QR on discs for over 5 years - never felt the need for anything else. I like new technology but not where it makes things worse. TA deserves to die an early death on road bikes. I'm even sceptical, based upon what I've seen, that it might help on MTB but I can imagine a bit more stiffness across the bottom of long-stroke suspension forks might be useful. I'm not even sure of that.ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0
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I'll say it again: TA are a waste of time on road bikes. They're a PITA for fitting wheels and don't make it any easier and they make no difference to disc rub. I've had QR on discs for over 5 years - never felt the need for anything else. I like new technology but not where it makes things worse. TA deserves to die an early death on road bikes. I'm even sceptical, based upon what I've seen, that it might help on MTB but I can imagine a bit more stiffness across the bottom of long-stroke suspension forks might be useful. I'm not even sure of that.
All perfectly logical, but since when has logic had any relevance to what the bike industry pushes out...?0 -
Thanks for the replies, I think I'll probably get a bike with rim brakes, have spent the afternoon looking at bikes in my budget and ones outside of it and every manufacturer seems to do there own things regards QR, TA and also the mount rype for the discs.0
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You get more bang for your buck with rim brakes.
Really?
Rim brakes are fine if you don't ride in real hills and stay out of the rain. But many years of riding in all weathers in the Highlands on both types of brake leaves me in no doubt which I'd choose. I didn't miss discs on the Foil whilst I was riding in N Holland but as soon as I brought it back here to the Cotswolds riding on wet mucky roads the limitations were obvious.
Even if you start on mechanical discs (I have them on the Volagi and they're great) you can always swap to hydraulic in time. Hydraulic has the advantage of being much smoother pull than any cable system (disc or rim). Discs also make a wider range of tyre widths easier and there's no doubt that the current trend is for tyres to get wider - either on road or off-road.
Mate just because you can't handle your bike, don't assume the rest of us are in the same boat. The fact that you feel you need discs is the Cotswolds says as much.English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0 -
I'll say it again: TA are a waste of time on road bikes. They're a PITA for fitting wheels and don't make it any easier and they make no difference to disc rub. I've had QR on discs for over 5 years - never felt the need for anything else. I like new technology but not where it makes things worse. TA deserves to die an early death on road bikes. I'm even sceptical, based upon what I've seen, that it might help on MTB but I can imagine a bit more stiffness across the bottom of long-stroke suspension forks might be useful. I'm not even sure of that.
All perfectly logical, but since when has logic had any relevance to what the bike industry pushes out...?
That's fair. I'm often a fan of the new stuff but TA simply adds nothing as my own bike proves.
But, as I say, you CAN be future proof with QR because there are already adaptors that allow you to fit TA wheels to QR bikes. And there are still LOADS of MTBs with QR.ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
Mate just because you can't handle your bike, don't assume the rest of us are in the same boat. The fact that you feel you need discs is the Cotswolds says as much.
Well, it's not often that comments go straight over the top of my head but that one does.
I'll explain my position then maybe you could explain yours...
I commuted for a couple of weeks on my Foil. After that time, I could hardly see the bike for the mud and crap on it so filthy are the roads. There's a couple of double-digit %age incline descents on my route - on braking all I could hear was my rims being machined even after the rubber had worked its way through the mud and started working. I'm not sure what any of that has to do with "bike handling"? It just points to the nonsense of using a block of rubber on the rim of a wheel in anything other than good conditions.ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
Dude, it's not an issue for most. Done loads of audaxes on far more treacherous terrain than you'll find in the Cotswolds (and done them in the Cotswolds too if that makes you feel better) and it's never been an issue. Used to do them on my Foil before I sold it (also used it as my winter hack) loaded with luggage and never felt unsafe or out of control. So why do my rim brakes work and yours don't?English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0
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I'll say it again: TA are a waste of time on road bikes. They're a PITA for fitting wheels and don't make it any easier and they make no difference to disc rub. I've had QR on discs for over 5 years - never felt the need for anything else. I like new technology but not where it makes things worse. TA deserves to die an early death on road bikes. I'm even sceptical, based upon what I've seen, that it might help on MTB but I can imagine a bit more stiffness across the bottom of long-stroke suspension forks might be useful. I'm not even sure of that.
I have to disagree, I have both QR & TA and time/ease of wheel removal is almost identical. Due to the "lawyers lips" on the QR bike even after operating the QR I have to give it another turn to remove the wheel. The TA just needs two or three turns and it pulls right out. Replacement is just as easy, slot wheel in (my Rose has locating cutouts), poke axle through and tighten. Probably takes 10 seconds max on the front, slightly longer on the rear as you loop the chain over the sprockets. Don't think is is either easier or harder, just different. Brake rub is non existent, dunno about stiffness, the thing just works. Would not want people put off because some find it a PITA, if you are doubtful get someone with a road bike with TA to show you how easy it really is. The only downside I have come across is that the axle is obviously separate from the wheel, when removed be careful where you put it as a big gob of mud and grit does not make it go back in any easier.Rose Xeon CDX 3100, Ultegra Di2 disc (nice weather)
Ribble Gran Fondo, Campagnolo Centaur (winter bike)
Van Raam 'O' Pair
Land Rover (really nasty weather
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You still haven't got it, Grill, so I'll spell it out in words of one syllable
Crap on roads with hills wear out the rims on your bike.
Got it now???
You seem to be obsessed by the terrain of the Cotswolds. Funnily enough, it's less hilly and treacherous here than my other home in the Highlands. But there are hills which mean that I use the brakes more than in N Holland. If you hardly use your brakes (like N Holland) it doesn't matter if your brakes wreck your rims - it'll be years until your wear them out.
I've no doubt that you (and many many thousands) have done hilly muddy stuff using rim brakes. Ooh, hang on, so have I. But discs are better. If they weren't better then they wouldn't be the de facto choice for MTBs. Or do you think MTBers need to man-up and learn your awesome bike handing skills?ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
I have to disagree, I have both QR & TA and time/ease of wheel removal is almost identical. Due to the "lawyers lips" on the QR bike even after operating the QR I have to give it another turn to remove the wheel. The TA just needs two or three turns and it pulls right out. Replacement is just as easy, slot wheel in (my Rose has locating cutouts), poke axle through and tighten. Probably takes 10 seconds max on the front, slightly longer on the rear as you loop the chain over the sprockets. Don't think is is either easier or harder, just different. Brake rub is non existent, dunno about stiffness, the thing just works. Would not want people put off because some find it a PITA, if you are doubtful get someone with a road bike with TA to show you how easy it really is. The only downside I have come across is that the axle is obviously separate from the wheel, when removed be careful where you put it as a big gob of mud and grit does not make it go back in any easier.
Starting with the rear axle, there's no lips - slot the wheel in and flip the QR lever.
The front is less of a difference but there is a difference - especially starting with wheels off the bike (after transport say). Where is your TA? In the fork? In your pocket? Left at home in the garage? I just don't see the point.
And you need to consider any tools, stands, turbos, bike carriers that you have that aren't TA compatible. None of my family turbos are nor my bike stand. Newer stuff has started to take it into account as MTBs are using TA more.ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
All part wear out. Having to rebuild a wheel every 10k is neither expensive nor is it a big deal (same price for rims as decent rotors).
Trying to compare your commute to MTBers is cute, but weak.English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0 -
All part wear out. Having to rebuild a wheel every 10k is neither expensive nor is it a big deal (same price for rims as decent rotors).
Trying to compare your commute to MTBers is cute, but weak.
Aye right on the rims and rotors! Unless you're comparing crap rims with top end rotors. But keep your faith in the quaint technology of the 19th century.
No, I'll admit - you are right on this. I get far more covered in crap on my commute than I do at Learnie Red Rock - but these days I do both on the same bike....
ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
Congrats?English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0
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[/quote]" wrote:
Starting with the rear axle, there's no lips - slot the wheel in and flip the QR lever.
The front is less of a difference but there is a difference - especially starting with wheels off the bike (after transport say). Where is your TA? In the fork? In your pocket? Left at home in the garage? I just don't see the point.
And you need to consider any tools, stands, turbos, bike carriers that you have that aren't TA compatible. None of my family turbos are nor my bike stand. Newer stuff has started to take it into account as MTBs are using TA more.
I see and understand why you have issues with TA due to your circumstances. I transport bikes in the car with the wheels on, so no problem on where to put the axles. My workstand has adaptors for both QR & TA (12 & 15mm), I don't use a turbo as I have a Monark Ergocycle for foul weather workouts. So for me either works.Rose Xeon CDX 3100, Ultegra Di2 disc (nice weather)
Ribble Gran Fondo, Campagnolo Centaur (winter bike)
Van Raam 'O' Pair
Land Rover (really nasty weather )0 -
Congrats?
You want congratulating because you got something right once?ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
I was congratulating you for being a hard man and riding badass trails on your commuter. Chapeau.English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0
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I see and understand why you have issues with TA due to your circumstances. I transport bikes in the car with the wheels on, so no problem on where to put the axles. My workstand has adaptors for both QR & TA (12 & 15mm), I don't use a turbo as I have a Monark Ergocycle for foul weather workouts. So for me either works.
And that's great. I just want to help people (like the OP) decide. I can't find any upsides to TA and I think that the best you can hope is no downsides. The upside that is most often quoted is to stiffen the front fork - and I find it makes zero difference (not found anybody that thinks it helps yet).ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
I was congratulating you for being a hard man and riding badass trails on your commuter. Chapeau.
And I was just pointing out that your arguments make no sense. ChapeauROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
Dude, it's not an issue for most. Done loads of audaxes on far more treacherous terrain than you'll find in the Cotswolds (and done them in the Cotswolds too if that makes you feel better) and it's never been an issue. Used to do them on my Foil before I sold it (also used it as my winter hack) loaded with luggage and never felt unsafe or out of control. So why do my rim brakes work and yours don't?
I think you just have different expectations. My new bike has hydraulic discs and i am now alot faster down hill due to fully trusting the brakes to stop me. Rim brakes in the wet were very poor in comparison, even in the dry they are nowhere near as good. I am very tall so not a light weight ten stone cyclist which does make a difference.0 -
I see and understand why you have issues with TA due to your circumstances. I transport bikes in the car with the wheels on, so no problem on where to put the axles. My workstand has adaptors for both QR & TA (12 & 15mm), I don't use a turbo as I have a Monark Ergocycle for foul weather workouts. So for me either works.
And that's great. I just want to help people (like the OP) decide. I can't find any upsides to TA and I think that the best you can hope is no downsides. The upside that is most often quoted is to stiffen the front fork - and I find it makes zero difference (not found anybody that thinks it helps yet).
On a mountain bike off road it makes a difference. On my road bike i don't really know to be honest, but it can't hurt and for me is very easy to remove / replace.0
