Fred Whitton Challenge 2016, the big thread

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  • antonyfromoz
    antonyfromoz Posts: 482
    congratulations to all who completed the Fred or gave their best attempt to do so! This is on my list of rides to do (although I understand what was said about bike handling skills) and I aim to enter the ballot next year - probably won't get the weather you got this year though. Would the ride be doable for a reasonably fit rider with a compact and a 12 - 29 cassette or is the collective wisdom that you need something like a 32 to avoid walking for some of the course?
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,048
    Yes of course until very recently I don't think you could get a bigger cassette than a 27 or 29 anyway and the Fred has been going a while.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • EarlofBarnet
    EarlofBarnet Posts: 673
    There was a lot (!) of people walking up all the passes. I had no shame in putting a 32 on the back to make things more comfortable. At 90 miles in and hitting the steepest climb of them all, Hardknott, I'd recommend sticking one on.
  • drlodge
    drlodge Posts: 4,826
    I might get up those hills on 34x29, but after 90 miles I doubt it. A 32 would be most welcome.
    WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
    Find me on Strava
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    I rode this 'for fun' with a mate. Wasn't going for a time, just to support him. Everything was easy enough until Hardknott and there was now ay I could climb that. So hard to try and walk up it. With one artificial leg and one leg brace (so foot can't bend). I think I lost an hour just creep up the last 2 hills!

    Scared the crap out of me going down those descents. Especially with dodgy brakes. Had I known, probably would have changed wheels.

    Much respect to anyone that rode this at all - it's not easy. Even if you rode up all the climbs - Chapeau!
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,310
    Honeybadger99 wrote:
    6:41 overall time for me, 6:20 moving time.Got held up on an accident on Kirkstone (healing vibes for the guy who came off, looked a nasty crash ) that had the group I was with split into two (that had Rob Jebb in it, who got round in 5:47 :shock: ) then had two punctures but hayho, these things happen. Had massive cramp on Hardknott, Wrynose and Langdale but seemed to pull through for the last 5-6miles. I know they say never say never but I think it'll be my last Fred for me. Now I know everyone's riding ability is different but some of the riding I whitnessed was quite frankly shocking. I was actually scared of my wellbeing in places. I'd rather take my chances in a 4th cat crit race.

    If you are worried about others, get out of bed early... I left at 6 and there was nobody on the roads... people who passed me were quicker... didn't have to deal with folks who can't descend.
    Of course by doing so, you lose the free ride behind your quick mate... :wink:
    left the forum March 2023
  • Agent57
    Agent57 Posts: 2,300
    Pokerface wrote:
    With one artificial leg and one leg brace (so foot can't bend).

    Aha! Were you the guy with the Ireland jersey on? If I'd realised at the time (you passed me and were at the first feed stop while I was there) I might have said hello; although introducing myself as a random forum user would probably have brought blank looks since I'm mostly active in the commuting forum. :D
    MTB commuter / 531c commuter / CR1 Team 2009 / RockHopper Pro Disc / 10 mile PB: 25:52 (Jun 2014)
  • Agent57
    Agent57 Posts: 2,300
    backo wrote:
    That and the guy who crashed at the bottom of honnister

    I think that guy was someone I'd been chatting to on the A592 earlier. A guy from near where I live who rode last year unscathed. Those descents were a PITA! Like I said before, they weren't the due reward for slogging up the damn hills. On Honister I was on the brakes most of the way down - pretty sore hands by the bottom.
    MTB commuter / 531c commuter / CR1 Team 2009 / RockHopper Pro Disc / 10 mile PB: 25:52 (Jun 2014)
  • smudge002
    smudge002 Posts: 17
    antonyfromoz wrote:
    Would the ride be doable for a reasonably fit rider with a compact and a 12 - 29 cassette or is the collective wisdom that you need something like a 32 to avoid walking for some of the course?

    It certainly is possible but I don't think I could have managed it without the 32 yesterday. With a fair bit more training, including some more hills of that kind of length and gradient, I might have been able to scrape up on a 28, but I wouldn't be confident that I'd make it.

    You've got to remember that you've had a pretty hilly 90 miles already, and also that much will depend on weather, road conditions and other riders. I was able to stay seated for most of Hardknott, standing up only for the serious gradients and to get out of trouble (negotiating past other riders that were about to get off and trying to avoid the sand etc). I rode with a friend who's probably a bit better at climbing than me, and he had to walk the last steep section of Hardknott and the last third of Wrynose (he was on a lightweight climbing bike with a compact and 28, whereas I was on an aero bike with a compact and 32). There's so many factors which will affect whether you can ride up it, including how hard you have ridden the previous hills and how determined you are not to get off.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,310
    Agent57 wrote:
    Those descents were a PITA! Like I said before, they weren't the due reward for slogging up the damn hills. On Honister I was on the brakes most of the way down - pretty sore hands by the bottom.

    They are very technical, but in line with the "challenge"... if the Fred had easy sweeping descents on beautiful tarmac, it wouldn't be the same thing. People are scared of going up Hardknott, but really it's the 3 big descents they should get you worried (Honister, Hardknott, Wrynose).

    Brake in big short squeezes... it's better for the rims/pads and it's better for your hands too
    left the forum March 2023
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,310
    I sorted the results by finish time.

    If you finish in under 7 hours, you are in the top 5-6%
    If you finished in under 8 hours you are in the top 30%
    The bottom 20% finished in 10 hours or more

    The average finish time was 8:42
    left the forum March 2023
  • Agent57
    Agent57 Posts: 2,300
    I was 1653th out of 2100 finishers. :D
    MTB commuter / 531c commuter / CR1 Team 2009 / RockHopper Pro Disc / 10 mile PB: 25:52 (Jun 2014)
  • 1986sv
    1986sv Posts: 83
    That was tough!

    7:48 total, I wanted under 8 so I'm very happy. Used a compact and 28, had a conversation with a Walsall rider about wanting a 32 but still pleased I managed to stay on up Hardknott and Wrynose.

    Won't be entering again next year, once is plenty :lol:

    Well done to all those that did it, can't imagine what it would be like in bad weather!
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,310
    Fastest italian... 8)
    left the forum March 2023
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    Agent57 wrote:
    Pokerface wrote:
    With one artificial leg and one leg brace (so foot can't bend).

    Aha! Were you the guy with the Ireland jersey on? If I'd realised at the time (you passed me and were at the first feed stop while I was there) I might have said hello; although introducing myself as a random forum user would probably have brought blank looks since I'm mostly active in the commuting forum. :D

    Yup - that was me. And another random forum member did just that - came up and introduced himself at a feed stop!
  • london-red
    london-red Posts: 1,266
    1986sv wrote:
    That was tough!

    Won't be entering again next year, once is plenty :lol:

    This!

    If I was still local, I might consider entering again, but it's difficult putting the training in without proper hills. And when you add the fact that the conditions were the best you'll ever see, it seems like a good time to retire :lol:
  • Spartacus1981
    Spartacus1981 Posts: 254
    Came in Just over 8hrs with about 7hrs 20 riding time. Personally I absolutely loved it and echo all the comments above (re descending, re support, re weather, re todo). Managed to stay on my bike and complete the ride and still on a high from it. Never, ever, ever have I seen or ridden anything like Hardknott in my life. Now I thought Mortirolo was steep at the time. Hardknott & Wrynose made that look like childs play haha !! Fantastic day with my mate and we both had our moments where we went under and thought of waving the white flag, but we got round : ) Descents were CRAZY. So glad we had the weather we did as I'm no Nibali myself !! Think even some of the pro's might reach for the pampers on those descents. Next up I'm doing the Monster in July in Wales. Anyone doing it ?
  • london-red
    london-red Posts: 1,266
    By the way, if anyone has any doubts at all about the severity of the climbs on this, I saw three cyclists fall off their bikes on the way up Hardknott simply because they came to a grinding halt and toppled sideways. I'm sure there would have been sand involved, unplanned wheelies and, on one occasion, a Land Rover getting in the way, but even so...
  • 1986sv
    1986sv Posts: 83
    Just behind me there was a massive argument on one of the last hairpins towards the top of Hardknott (just before the poor chap in a tent).

    Not sure what happened but one guy was seriously pee'd off, took my mind off the climb for 30 seconds listening to them shouting at eachother
  • lakesluddite
    lakesluddite Posts: 1,337
    Pokerface wrote:
    Agent57 wrote:
    Pokerface wrote:
    With one artificial leg and one leg brace (so foot can't bend).

    Aha! Were you the guy with the Ireland jersey on? If I'd realised at the time (you passed me and were at the first feed stop while I was there) I might have said hello; although introducing myself as a random forum user would probably have brought blank looks since I'm mostly active in the commuting forum. :D

    Yup - that was me. And another random forum member did just that - came up and introduced himself at a feed stop!

    I saw you too! I was pretty sure it was you, but not enough to say hello, sorry (bit shy, me).

    Heck of a day, just failed in attempt at breaking 8 hours (8.05 - 7.40 riding time according to Garmin), but I simply had to get off the bike near Cockley Beck and stretch out the cramp that was crippling me. I managed Hardknott without stopping (despite the road being full of walkers and sand - oil spill I suspect), but that headwind at the bottom did for me. Still, I managed to get up Wrynose as well so the stretch must have worked! Still did the traditional time-trial from Elterwater all the way back, the adrenaline from getting over Wrynose pushing me on.

    Get well soon to those who did come a cropper - I too saw the guy at the bottom of Honister being attended to, and the tent around someone on Hardknott. Plus there was a guy in the marquee afterwards who looked like he'd taken a whack in the face.

    Well done everyone, good effort, must have been the hottest Fred ever - and it's still as hot up here today, so glad I had a day off work yesterday to do a lovely gentle recovery ride in the glorious sun.
    Chapeau too to the volunteers, can't have been easy standing out there baking all day - I marshalled last year in the gloom, and that was tough.

    Same time next year everyone?
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,310
    Bilkobaggins wrote:
    Think even some of the pro's might reach for the pampers on those descents.

    PROs can be quite a weepy bunch... I remember when they cancelled a steep descent (Monte Crostis) at the Giro because it was wet and most PROs would refuse to go up, let alone down Hardknott. Hard man races are a restricted number in the calendar and don't get much appeal... look at the fuss they kicked for a handful of wet cobbles sectors at the Tour 2014... the Team managers made it sound as if they were going to war. Strade Bianche is considered extreme, while having ridden those roads extensively, I can say they are smother than most tarmac we did on sunday
    left the forum March 2023
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    I'm actually of two minds about going back again next year. Not he one hand, I'd like to have a crack at those last 2 hills with a compact chainset. On the other hand, I could do that any time on my own - and just park my car at the bottom should I fail to ride up it again!
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,310
    Pokerface wrote:
    I'm actually of two minds about going back again next year. Not he one hand, I'd like to have a crack at those last 2 hills with a compact chainset. On the other hand, I could do that any time on my own - and just park my car at the bottom should I fail to ride up it again!

    I'd like to go back and do Wrynose, Honister and Kirkstone from the opposite side, as they look nicer and harder that way
    left the forum March 2023
  • Spartacus1981
    Spartacus1981 Posts: 254
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Pokerface wrote:
    I'm actually of two minds about going back again next year. Not he one hand, I'd like to have a crack at those last 2 hills with a compact chainset. On the other hand, I could do that any time on my own - and just park my car at the bottom should I fail to ride up it again!

    I'd like to go back and do Wrynose, Honister and Kirkstone from the opposite side, as they look nicer and harder that way

    What, you didn't have a compact @ Pokerface :shock: :shock: . Ugo that sounds a good idea. Some of those looked like they would be great done in reverse.
  • Spartacus1981
    Spartacus1981 Posts: 254
    Anyone still tired from this ? I'm cream crackered still. I'm sleeping standing up !! Looked at bike once or twice but that's as far as its got.
  • Agent57
    Agent57 Posts: 2,300
    Bilkobaggins wrote:
    Anyone still tired from this ? I'm cream crackered still. I'm sleeping standing up !! Looked at bike once or twice but that's as far as its got.

    I was back on the bike the next day, and my legs are a little heavy, but nothing like as bad as after running for five hours. I assume it's just because I'm more accustomed to cycling.
    MTB commuter / 531c commuter / CR1 Team 2009 / RockHopper Pro Disc / 10 mile PB: 25:52 (Jun 2014)
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,310
    Bilkobaggins wrote:
    Anyone still tired from this ? I'm cream crackered still. I'm sleeping standing up !! Looked at bike once or twice but that's as far as its got.

    Not really... I am cycling quite hard into work in the rain... legs are fine... possibly I rode a bit conservatively in fear of hitting a wall
    left the forum March 2023
  • Solis
    Solis Posts: 166
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Pokerface wrote:
    I'm actually of two minds about going back again next year. Not he one hand, I'd like to have a crack at those last 2 hills with a compact chainset. On the other hand, I could do that any time on my own - and just park my car at the bottom should I fail to ride up it again!

    I'd like to go back and do Wrynose, Honister and Kirkstone from the opposite side, as they look nicer and harder that way

    Wrynose and Kirkstone definitely harder, Honister not much in it but a nicer climb from West, if you go back make sure you take The Struggle in as well
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,310
    Solis wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Pokerface wrote:
    I'm actually of two minds about going back again next year. Not he one hand, I'd like to have a crack at those last 2 hills with a compact chainset. On the other hand, I could do that any time on my own - and just park my car at the bottom should I fail to ride up it again!

    I'd like to go back and do Wrynose, Honister and Kirkstone from the opposite side, as they look nicer and harder that way

    Wrynose and Kirkstone definitely harder, Honister not much in it but a nicer climb from West, if you go back make sure you take The Struggle in as well

    I was almost tempted to go up the Struggle as we rolled into Ambleside, but feared being disqualified... :mrgreen:
    left the forum March 2023
  • alexjones5
    alexjones5 Posts: 42
    6h 59 for me (6 43 moving). Really pleased to get under 7 and so Elite time.
    36x28 got me over everything fine, although some of the guys zig zagging up Hardknott with no regard for any other riders made it tricky (in the own World of pain probably)
    London-Red, must have been close to you as I to has to get round the Land Rover on Hardknott.
    Echo some of the comments about riding standard, I've no issue with people trying to kill themselves but I have when they try to take me with them. Hairpin on Newlands descent, I heard a guy coming too fast, shouted a warning, he carried on, realised, slammed on and nearly took me out as he cut straight in front of me. Not good.

    After 3 previous attempts it was lovely to ride in the sunshine! Next year? We shall see.....

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