Anyone have any ideas how to get rid of LVG??
Comments
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Pinno wrote:Not in his defenders he hasn't - the best defensive record in the league.
That they do. Although in reality we have a top class keeper who we rely on constantly, but the main reason for the tight defence is LVG's tactics. Pass pass pass and then pass some more means the opposition can't get the ball, therefore they can't score. That is not the correct way to play the game.
The best team in the world does pass pass pass and then pass some more, never allowing any time on the ball for the opposition. They set that standard. The only difference being the final result through the brilliance of Neymar, Messi and Suarez and the midfield bossed by Iniesta.
It is the model and it is replicated in some part by Arsenal, Bayern and 1 or two others. It is in the philosophical vein of Ajax - the source of that original ethic. If LVG's squad started scoring, at a rate conducive to winning, you would not care about his style. Besides, your criticism is hypocritical because Fergie never played attractive football - it was effective, winning football. I don't even know what adjective you could subscribe to it. It always smacked of a bunch of boys petrified of the hair dryer treatment should they loose.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Ditto ditto, I wasn't going to delete it once I had gone to all that effort...seanoconn - gruagach craic!0
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So you are admitting that pas, pass, pass tactic works. It just needs the right personnel.
Barcelona would disagree.That they do. Although in reality we have a top class keeper who we rely on constantly, but the main reason for the tight defence is LVG's tactics. Pass pass pass and then pass some more means the opposition can't get the ball, therefore they can't score. That is not the correct way to play the game.
How is that working for them?
One simple difference though. Barca (and Bayern for that matter) play pass pass pass with a view to go forward and slice through the opposition. LVG won't allow the Utd side to do that. It has to be slow and methodical. If there is no clear opening in the opposition defence, pass it back to De Gea and start over.
:roll:
Who buys the players? Is it really LVG? He seemed surprised to get Martial.
I suspect the root of the problem is higher up the tree. That would be a major problem.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Bang!If LVG's squad started scoring, at a rate conducive to winning, you would not care about his style.
That was the nail on the head.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Bang!If LVG's squad started scoring, at a rate conducive to winning, you would not care about his style.
That was the nail on the head.
Ow. Shhh. I got a splitting headache. Wonder why...seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
PBlakeney wrote:So you are admitting that pas, pass, pass tactic works. It just needs the right personnel.
Who buys the players? Is it really LVG? He seemed surprised to get Martial.
I suspect the root of the problem is higher up the tree. That would be a major problem.
Don't get me wrong, passing football can be nice to watch and effective. BUT only if you have talented players who are given freedom to take chances to make the incisive pass and create a chance.
If you listen to the comments coming out of UTD the players are instructed not to do this. LVG seems to think if you just pass the ball side to side or back back back the opposition will get frustrated and leave gaps at the back. This is why UTD end up having about 70% possession, most of which is in their own half.
I think Sky did a big thing in the summer on the transfer policy on UTD. Basically LVG and his scouts identify potential targets, assess them over several months to see if they would fit in to the LVG 'philosophy', and then Woodward goes and gets them (for just 2 or 3 times their true value).
In fairness with Martial they had scouted him for longer than most and i think the surprise is because Monaco had rejected their previous bid and insisted he would not be sold.
Oh and i would like to win the lottery but that isn't likely to happen, just the same way that LVG's tactics are not likely to bring goal goal goal (as Barca and Bayern can do).0 -
You cannot blame lack of talent with a squad assembled at a cost far far greater than Leicester.
Maybe the fault lies above LVG and maybe the players lack ambition, fresh on new contracts, lackadaisical because they are playing for the 'biggest club in the world', certain that success is going to come as it is assumed and inherent to the club.
I think you are expecting too much, too early and 4th spot at this stage is more than acceptable.
If there is impatience from supporters like you, it goes back to those unrealistic expectations.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
You cannot blame lack of talent with a squad assembled at a cost far far greater than Leicester.
Maybe the fault lies above LVG and maybe the players lack ambition, fresh on new contracts, lackadaisical because they are playing for the 'biggest club in the world', certain that success is going to come as it is assumed and inherent to the club.
I think you are expecting too much, too early and 4th spot at this stage is more than acceptable.
If there is impatience from supporters like you, it goes back to those unrealistic expectations.
No, again you are getting confused. My (and a growing majority of UTD fans) complaint against LVG is not regarding the league position, it is not because Bournemouth deservedly beat us, it is because LVG is trying to enforce a tactic which is so dire to watch and goes completely against the UTD tradition of attacking and flare.
And in all honesty, if his tactic did ever (somehow) bring the Premiership title it would be a travesty for football.
Time the man retired.0 -
It worked for Chelsea in Mourinho's first term. They were dire to watch, but successful.You cannot blame lack of talent with a squad assembled at a cost far far greater than Leicester.
Maybe the fault lies above LVG and maybe the players lack ambition, fresh on new contracts, lackadaisical because they are playing for the 'biggest club in the world', certain that success is going to come as it is assumed and inherent to the club.
I think you are expecting too much, too early and 4th spot at this stage is more than acceptable.
If there is impatience from supporters like you, it goes back to those unrealistic expectations.
No, again you are getting confused. My (and a growing majority of UTD fans) complaint against LVG is not regarding the league position, it is not because Bournemouth deservedly beat us, it is because LVG is trying to enforce a tactic which is so dire to watch and goes completely against the UTD tradition of attacking and flare.
And in all honesty, if his tactic did ever (somehow) bring the Premiership title it would be a travesty for football.
Time the man retired.
Did Chelsea fans moan then? No.
They have plenty to moan about now though.
Winning stops fans moaning. End of.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
It worked for Chelsea in Mourinho's first term. They were dire to watch, but successful.You cannot blame lack of talent with a squad assembled at a cost far far greater than Leicester.
Maybe the fault lies above LVG and maybe the players lack ambition, fresh on new contracts, lackadaisical because they are playing for the 'biggest club in the world', certain that success is going to come as it is assumed and inherent to the club.
I think you are expecting too much, too early and 4th spot at this stage is more than acceptable.
If there is impatience from supporters like you, it goes back to those unrealistic expectations.
No, again you are getting confused. My (and a growing majority of UTD fans) complaint against LVG is not regarding the league position, it is not because Bournemouth deservedly beat us, it is because LVG is trying to enforce a tactic which is so dire to watch and goes completely against the UTD tradition of attacking and flare.
And in all honesty, if his tactic did ever (somehow) bring the Premiership title it would be a travesty for football.
Time the man retired.
Did Chelsea fans moan then? No.
They have plenty to moan about now though.
Winning stops fans moaning. End of.
Er, no, winning stops CHELSKI fans moaning.
With LVG, look why Bayern & Barca got rid! They had been successful but the fans hated him & his style.
They got rid & then prospered.0 -
It...End of.You ...expectations.
No...flare.
And in all honesty, if his tactic did ever (somehow) bring the Premiership title it would be a travesty for football.
Time...
Er, no, winning stops CHELSKI fans moaning.
With LVG, look why Bayern & Barca got rid! They had been successful but the fans hated him & his style.
They got rid & then prospered.
That's an assumption. Maybe the sort of football Barca play is more akin to the Dutch 'total football'. Maybe LVG spawned the idea. Barca don't keep managers long, nor do RM. Guardiola left - it was so relentless and intense, a difficult job for anyone. 4 years is good going.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
The complete irony of this thread's existence.
It worked for Chelsea in Mourinho's first term. They were dire to watch, but successful.You cannot blame lack of talent with a squad assembled at a cost far far greater than Leicester.
Maybe the fault lies above LVG and maybe the players lack ambition, fresh on new contracts, lackadaisical because they are playing for the 'biggest club in the world', certain that success is going to come as it is assumed and inherent to the club.
I think you are expecting too much, too early and 4th spot at this stage is more than acceptable.
If there is impatience from supporters like you, it goes back to those unrealistic expectations.
No, again you are getting confused. My (and a growing majority of UTD fans) complaint against LVG is not regarding the league position, it is not because Bournemouth deservedly beat us, it is because LVG is trying to enforce a tactic which is so dire to watch and goes completely against the UTD tradition of attacking and flare.
And in all honesty, if his tactic did ever (somehow) bring the Premiership title it would be a travesty for football.
Time the man retired.
Did Chelsea fans moan then? No.
They have plenty to moan about now though.
Winning stops fans moaning. End of.
Er, no, winning stops CHELSKI fans moaning.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Just what Redvision didn't want to hear.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3363189/Pep-Guardiola-pass-master-set-cast-spell-Premier-League-convince-new-players-philosophy.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3362604/Carlo-Ancelotti-set-replace-Pep-Guardiola-Bayern-Munich-former-Real-Madrid-boss-returns-management-year-out.html0 -
Just what Redvision didn't want to hear.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3363189/Pep-Guardiola-pass-master-set-cast-spell-Premier-League-convince-new-players-philosophy.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3362604/Carlo-Ancelotti-set-replace-Pep-Guardiola-Bayern-Munich-former-Real-Madrid-boss-returns-management-year-out.html
Ooow, a Daily Mail reader! Says its all...
I think Ancelotti may end up at Bayern if Guardiola does leave, but only because UTD have not sacked LVG.
Read Ancelotti's recent comments, he wants the UTD job and if it were a choice between that and the Bayern job i'm sure, from his comments, he would take the UTD job.0 -
I remember the same said about Pep.......Just what Redvision didn't want to hear.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3363189/Pep-Guardiola-pass-master-set-cast-spell-Premier-League-convince-new-players-philosophy.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3362604/Carlo-Ancelotti-set-replace-Pep-Guardiola-Bayern-Munich-former-Real-Madrid-boss-returns-management-year-out.html
Ooow, a Daily Mail reader! Says its all...
I think Ancelotti may end up at Bayern if Guardiola does leave, but only because UTD have not sacked LVG.
Read Ancelotti's recent comments, he wants the UTD job and if it were a choice between that and the Bayern job i'm sure, from his comments, he would take the UTD job.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
.
I remember the same said about Pep.......Just what Redvision didn't want to hear.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3363189/Pep-Guardiola-pass-master-set-cast-spell-Premier-League-convince-new-players-philosophy.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3362604/Carlo-Ancelotti-set-replace-Pep-Guardiola-Bayern-Munich-former-Real-Madrid-boss-returns-management-year-out.html
Ooow, a Daily Mail reader! Says its all...
I think Ancelotti may end up at Bayern if Guardiola does leave, but only because UTD have not sacked LVG.
Read Ancelotti's recent comments, he wants the UTD job and if it were a choice between that and the Bayern job i'm sure, from his comments, he would take the UTD job.
When?? If you read my posts i said i would like him to manage UTD. I did not say it was likely to happen.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/12038114/Manchester-United-news-Carlo-Ancelotti-says-of-course-he-would-like-to-manage-at-Old-Trafford.html0 -
When?
.
I remember the same said about Pep.......Just what Redvision didn't want to hear.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3363189/Pep-Guardiola-pass-master-set-cast-spell-Premier-League-convince-new-players-philosophy.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3362604/Carlo-Ancelotti-set-replace-Pep-Guardiola-Bayern-Munich-former-Real-Madrid-boss-returns-management-year-out.html
Ooow, a Daily Mail reader! Says its all...
I think Ancelotti may end up at Bayern if Guardiola does leave, but only because UTD have not sacked LVG.
Read Ancelotti's recent comments, he wants the UTD job and if it were a choice between that and the Bayern job i'm sure, from his comments, he would take the UTD job.
When?? If you read my posts i said i would like him to manage UTD. I did not say it was likely to happen.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/12038114/Manchester-United-news-Carlo-Ancelotti-says-of-course-he-would-like-to-manage-at-Old-Trafford.html
During Davie Moyes' demise.
There are other Man U supporters surprisingly enough.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
PBlakeney wrote:When?
During Davie Moyes' demise.
There are other Man U supporters surprisingly enough.
I never said that.
I have never expected Guardiola at UTD. I would like him to be there but i am realistic and can't see it happening.
Indeed there are lots of Man UTD fans (it's what makes the World such a great place
) but a growing majority appear to be thinking along the same lines as me and calling for LVG to be replaced - not just evident at home matches but also online polls.
Oh, and do you know the biggest indication that LVG is destroying the club?? It's when supporters of other clubs insist he has done well and should be given more time.0 -
Well?seanoconn - gruagach craic!0
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Er, no, winning stops CHELSKI fans moaning.
With LVG, look why Bayern & Barca got rid! They had been successful but the fans hated him & his style.
They got rid & then prospered.
This is the best one so far - bloke who is not from Manchester, has never been to Manchester, has never seen "his" team play (apart from on the tv) and only supports "his" team after jumping on the glory bandwagon has a go at another club's fans.
Brilliant. Utter comedy. You couldn't make it up - well you could, because its Manure, the rickety club that its own fan s agree is so debt ridden its collapsing (which is why they set up that sub club with the green and yellow kit), who's own Class of 92 or whatever they are decided not to invest their and money into the Academy but to buy Salford FC and who's fans still believe that their club actually means anything outside of Cheshire.
Key points of last financials:
•Total revenue of £105.7million - down from £122.9million, a 14 percent fall.
•Gross debt has risen 6.7 percent from 356.6million to 380.5million.
•Broadcasting revenue dropped to £28.4million, down 39.4 percent from the same period in 2013.
• Matchday revenue is down 8.3 percent.
Not looking good really, is it.
Then lets take into account the fact that they won't get C/L football next season - another loss there. Lucky if they make it the year after - if they don't they fall foul of Adidas' clause regarding having to qualify for Europe otherwise the retain a massive percentage of the kit deal: less income.
Manure have to buy more players (on top of the £250 million LVG has already spent), more wage bills, agents bills, less income from tv rights, Europe and kit deal means more debt, all whilst the Glazers are still taking every penny they want out of the club.
Oh dear oh dear oh dear.
if it happened to Rangers then it'll happen to Manure. And we will all laugh and laugh and laugh and laugh and laugh.Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am
De Sisti wrote:
This is one of the silliest threads I've come across.
Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honoursmithy21 wrote:
He's right you know.0 -
Er, no, winning stops CHELSKI fans moaning.
With LVG, look why Bayern & Barca got rid! They had been successful but the fans hated him & his style.
They got rid & then prospered.
This is the best one so far - bloke who is not from Manchester, has never been to Manchester, has never seen "his" team play (apart from on the tv) and only supports "his" team after jumping on the glory bandwagon has a go at another club's fans.
Brilliant. Utter comedy. You couldn't make it up - well you could, because its Manure, the rickety club that its own fan s agree is so debt ridden its collapsing (which is why they set up that sub club with the green and yellow kit), who's own Class of 92 or whatever they are decided not to invest their and money into the Academy but to buy Salford FC and who's fans still believe that their club actually means anything outside of Cheshire.
Key points of last financials:
•Total revenue of £105.7million - down from £122.9million, a 14 percent fall.
•Gross debt has risen 6.7 percent from 356.6million to 380.5million.
•Broadcasting revenue dropped to £28.4million, down 39.4 percent from the same period in 2013.
• Matchday revenue is down 8.3 percent.
Not looking good really, is it.
Then lets take into account the fact that they won't get C/L football next season - another loss there. Lucky if they make it the year after - if they don't they fall foul of Adidas' clause regarding having to qualify for Europe otherwise the retain a massive percentage of the kit deal: less income.
Manure have to buy more players (on top of the £250 million LVG has already spent), more wage bills, agents bills, less income from tv rights, Europe and kit deal means more debt, all whilst the Glazers are still taking every penny they want out of the club.
Oh dear oh dear oh dear.
if it happened to Rangers then it'll happen to Manure. And we will all laugh and laugh and laugh and laugh and laugh.
Does the new super-duper TV deal not kick in from this summer?
I think they had less matchday + TV income (and therefore total income) because they weren't in Europe last season.
Don't think you can really compare Man Utd with what happened to Rangers; that's a whole different level of owner incompetence and, latterly, fraud, which is currently subject to several court cases. The only real similarity is the fact that both clubs are the biggest in their respective leagues and are therefore likely to attract the most polarised opinions.0 -
Try reading the post before diving in like Keane.[
I never said that.
I have never expected Guardiola at UTD. I would like him to be there but i am realistic and can't see it happening.
I never said that you said it. It was just another delusional supporter. He also insisted Messi was going.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Didn't Rangers demise start with tax investigations on their wage structure?Don't think you can really compare Man Utd with what happened to Rangers; that's a whole different level of owner incompetence and, latterly, fraud, which is currently subject to several court cases.
I very much doubt they were the only club to use these practices.
IIRC, Arsenal paid off HMRC to look away.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Try reading the post before diving in like Keane.[
I never said that.
I have never expected Guardiola at UTD. I would like him to be there but i am realistic and can't see it happening.
I never said that you said it. It was just another delusional supporter. He also insisted Messi was going.
My bad, thought you were claiming I had made such claims.
Keano though... Now there was a player!
Lol, someone actually said Messi would go to utd?? No chance! Besides, we would rather have Ronaldo come home (although sadly I can't see that happening).0 -
Ooops! Forgot about that. It was going to be the dream double act. :shock:
Try reading the post before diving in like Keane.[
I never said that.
I have never expected Guardiola at UTD. I would like him to be there but i am realistic and can't see it happening.
I never said that you said it. It was just another delusional supporter. He also insisted Messi was going.
My bad, thought you were claiming I had made such claims.
Keano though... Now there was a player!
Lol, someone actually said Messi would go to utd?? No chance! Besides, we would rather have Ronaldo come home (although sadly I can't see that happening).
Man U fans, what you like? The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Yes I am, thanks for asking.
Having fun.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Well?
Tell you what, just admit that man utd are the greatest club ever, fergie was a god, LVG needs sacking and you have asked Santa for a utd shirt for Xmas, and I will lock the thread.
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Ooops! Forgot about that. It was going to be the dream double act. :shock:
Try reading the post before diving in like Keane.[
I never said that.
I have never expected Guardiola at UTD. I would like him to be there but i am realistic and can't see it happening.
I never said that you said it. It was just another delusional supporter. He also insisted Messi was going.
My bad, thought you were claiming I had made such claims.
Keano though... Now there was a player!
Lol, someone actually said Messi would go to utd?? No chance! Besides, we would rather have Ronaldo come home (although sadly I can't see that happening).
Man U fans, what you like?
Lol, was that really said??
He obviously spoke sense, I mean ronaldo & Messi are such close friends and they dream of playing in the same team together 0 -
So you start another one. :roll:Well?0 -
Didn't Rangers demise start with tax investigations on their wage structure?Don't think you can really compare Man Utd with what happened to Rangers; that's a whole different level of owner incompetence and, latterly, fraud, which is currently subject to several court cases.
I very much doubt they were the only club to use these practices.
IIRC, Arsenal paid off HMRC to look away.
I'll try to cut a very very long story short...
David Murray, former owner of Rangers, was operating a system of Trust payments (EBTs), on top of basic salary to certain players and employees. No income tax was paid on these payments; apparently not illegal at the time, but certainly risky... And yes numerous other clubs (and other companies) were operating similar schemes, including Arsenal. HMRC eventually closed the loophole and came after Rangers for the money, estimated to be around £45 million plus interest and penalties.
Meanwhile Murray's other business were taking a pounding in the 08 financial crisis and he was under severe pressure from the bank (Bank of Scotland AKA Lloyds) to sell the club (which was losing money anyway, although the debt had been reduced considerably since the excesses of the 90s and early 2000s). The problem was it became impossible for him to sell while the EBT case was on the table... eventually matters came to ahead and the club was bought, apparently fraudulently, by "Monaco-based businessman" Craig Whyte, for £1.
Whyte took the club on a downward spiral and stopped PAYE and NI payments, which was what ultimately put the company into administration... when it became clear that there was no way out of that, a new company was formed, led by Charles Green (ex-Sheffield Utd chief exec), who took over the club and the old company's other assets, including membership of the league. The league's members (ie the other 41 senior clubs in Scotland) then voted that Rangers should be placed in the bottom tier to "restart" under its new owners.
Then came a motley crew of spivs and crooks, including Mike Ashley, before a new consortium of Rangers-friendly businessmen (some of whom had been involved during Murray's tenure and one of whom had his own tax issues in South Africa - but that's a whole other story) was able to gain control of the board earlier this year. However Ashley still has control of the retail operation with an incredibly unfavourable contract; at one stage he also had security over the stadium, training ground and trademarks. In the meantime the new board is attempting to rebuild the club on extremely limited income.
The aforementioned Green and Whyte (spot the irony) are now fighting a number of criminal charges with regards to the fraudulent acquisition of the club and takeover of the assets by the new company. Also charged are three former employees of Duff and Phelps, the administrators of the old company, and their lawyer. This may or may not lead back to Ashley; we can but dream.
Incidentally, the EBT case is still ongoing, two initial hearings ruled that the payments were not liable to tax but HMRC have won the most recent appeal; the liquidators of the old company have indicated that they will appeal again and it will now be heard in the Supreme Court.
All in all, an utter shambles that makes what has happened to the likes of Leeds and Portsmouth look relatively simple.
Anyway, back to Man Utd...0
