Donald Trump

bendertherobot

LOL.

Fing Lol

Garry H

His healthcare reforms have been withdrawn.

orraloon

Garry H wrote:

His healthcare reforms have been withdrawn.

Fake news. Sad.

Garry H

orraloon wrote:

Garry H wrote:

His healthcare reforms have been withdrawn.

Fake news. Sad.

it's on the BBC!

kingstonian

And so the unravelling begins......

Garry H

Kingstonian wrote:

And so the unravelling begins......

we hope

orraloon

Dem Republican nutjobs are playing the medium, not long, game. Der Drumpf crashes and burns, impeachment in due course, dark side Pence takes over, let the bad times roll. Happy days.

pinno

Well hopefully Pence gets sucked in to the Russian vote rigging and apparent illicit relationship malarkey. The power of the senate has overcome. The same senate which put spanners in the works of Obama's policies. So, it's harder to change the status quo than you thought it would be Mr Trump?

is this the end of the wave of the populist vote? (Slightly jumping the gun).

Pross

'If you can't make a deal with a politician there's something wrong with you, you're not very good'. You said it Donald!

pinno

Trump is going to make Obama look like a wet dream.

kingstongraham

He does have the power to pretty much bring down Obama care by dropping that appeal against the insurance companies. Then what would the Dems do? Let the people go uninsured or make a deal?

bendertherobot

KingstonGraham wrote:

He does have the power to pretty much bring down Obama care by dropping that appeal against the insurance companies. Then what would the Dems do? Let the people go uninsured or make a deal?

The one against the really poor people?

Pross

I find the health care thing an odd one. I know it's a judgement made from far away but from what I saw of the most vocal Trump support during the election campaign many of them looked like they would be exactly the demographic the Obamacare proposal is there to help.

bendertherobot

Pross wrote:

I find the health care thing an odd one. I know it's a judgement made from far away but from what I saw of the most vocal Trump support during the election campaign many of them looked like they would be exactly the demographic the Obamacare proposal is there to help.

A bit like EU funding?

surrey_commuter

You will find those people are in favour of universal healthcare but against Obamacare.

If I read correctly then it was the hard right who scuppered this because it did not go far enough.

pblakeney

Pross wrote:

I find the health care thing an odd one. I know it's a judgement made from far away but from what I saw of the most vocal Trump support during the election campaign many of them looked like they would be exactly the demographic the Obamacare proposal is there to help.

I think it boils down to them preferring to choose which insurance company rips them off instead of giving the money to the Government.

jeremy1

Three predictions

1. He has a heart attack within a year

or

2. He is ousted

and

3. He will never be re elected

But when you think that he or Clinton were the best (hahahahaha) the US had to offer God help the USA

jeremy1

PBlakeney wrote:

Pross wrote:

I find the health care thing an odd one. I know it's a judgement made from far away but from what I saw of the most vocal Trump support during the election campaign many of them looked like they would be exactly the demographic the Obamacare proposal is there to help.

I think it boils down to them preferring to choose which insurance company rips them off instead of giving the money to the Government.

Thank god for the NHS and all the workers / staff on the FRONT line

orraloon

jeremy1 wrote:

Thank god for the NHS

Don't think he/she/it had much to do with it. Thank Nye Bevan perhaps.

kingstongraham

bendertherobot wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

He does have the power to pretty much bring down Obama care by dropping that appeal against the insurance companies. Then what would the Dems do? Let the people go uninsured or make a deal?

The one against the really poor people?

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shot ... gal-appeal

This one - my mistake, it isn't against the insurance companies, it's against republican house members who say the funding is illegal.

rick_chasey

There are some very odd republicans who are getting very upset that health insurance means healthy people end up paying the bills of the ill.

I mean, how do they think insurance works?

letap73

Pross wrote:

I find the health care thing an odd one. I know it's a judgement made from far away but from what I saw of the most vocal Trump support during the election campaign many of them looked like they would be exactly the demographic the Obamacare proposal is there to help.

It appears that the demograph that you refer to were pro for the Affordable Care Act and strongly against Obamacare - unfortunately they did not realise they were the same thing.

briantrumpet

letap73 wrote:

Pross wrote:

I find the health care thing an odd one. I know it's a judgement made from far away but from what I saw of the most vocal Trump support during the election campaign many of them looked like they would be exactly the demographic the Obamacare proposal is there to help.

It appears that the demograph that you refer to were pro for the Affordable Care Act and strongly against Obamacare - unfortunately they did not realise they were the same thing.

But Trump sold them the idea that he was going to fix it all in their favour: wider coverage for less money. It was either a complete lie (cf. £350m to the NHS from Brexit), or he was delusional about his ability to wave a magic wand at healthcare.

In the end he couldn't push it through, as it didn't satisfy either end of the party: the moderates who wanted a programme to improve Obamacare (better coverage more cheaply), or the hawks who would turn all healthcare over to the free market and let poor people die.

As time goes on, those people who thought that Trump was going to work for them will discover that the Republicans (and Bannon) are using him to their own ends, as long as they can get away with it, and the poor will be screwed right royally. As yet, the penny/cent has only partially dropped, I think.

pblakeney

"He told a reporter this week: "I can't be doing so badly, because I'm president and you're not.""
:shock: :shock: :shock:

Matthewfalle

jeremy1 wrote:

Thank god for the NHS and all the workers / staff on the FRONT line

And what makes them so much better than US doctors/nurses/paramedics/techies/etc etc etc? Or those from any other country?

rolf_f

Matthewfalle wrote:

jeremy1 wrote:

Thank god for the NHS and all the workers / staff on the FRONT line

And what makes them so much better than US doctors/nurses/paramedics/techies/etc etc etc? Or those from any other country?

He seems to be expressing appreciation of the NHS and it's staff (and probably glad that this means the dire state of health provision for the poor that America suffers doesn't apply here) - he hasn't actually expressed an opinion that I can see of whether or not our medical staff are better than those of anywhere else.

TheBigBean

Rick Chasey wrote:

There are some very odd republicans who are getting very upset that health insurance means healthy people end up paying the bills of the ill.

I mean, how do they think insurance works?

They look upon it like pensions or self-insurance. It's a blind spot like guns.

rick_chasey

TheBigBean wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

There are some very odd republicans who are getting very upset that health insurance means healthy people end up paying the bills of the ill.

I mean, how do they think insurance works?

They look upon it like pensions or self-insurance. It's a blind spot like guns.

If they wanna take that attitude it's fair enough, but why apply it only to health spending?

Why not just be anti-insurance, period?

TheBigBean

Rick Chasey wrote:

TheBigBean wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

There are some very odd republicans who are getting very upset that health insurance means healthy people end up paying the bills of the ill.

I mean, how do they think insurance works?

They look upon it like pensions or self-insurance. It's a blind spot like guns.

If they wanna take that attitude it's fair enough, but why apply it only to health spending?

Why not just be anti-insurance, period?

It's not a wholly rational debate, but with healthcare you get different levels of service (I think) and, to a certain extent, you get to influence the likelihood of a claim. Note that to the extent you have the same influence in other insurance cases you have the same discussion, for example, many people argue that good drivers shouldn't pay for bad drivers.

rick_chasey

I can't say I find any of those arguments convincing.

Izzy does a good summary here, but in the context of telematics in car drivers, but it's the same idea: https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2016/09/22/ ... -big-data/

The proposition here is simple. Soon enough, telematics companies will gather data from all our connected devices, fitbits and cars, scrutinise it intricately, then determine whether we are “good” or “bad” agents. Good behaviours will be rewarded with cheaper insurance policies, bad ones will be penalised. The relative cost of being a bad agent, meanwhile, will incentivise good behaviours, eliminating evil from our world forever. Amen.

There’s only one problem. Personalising insurance contracts to this degree undermines the whole concept of insurance.

Insurance doesn’t really work unless risk is pooled in such a way that good agents pay over the odds to the benefit of the bad ones.

A world where insurance is personally tailored to reflect every individual’s behavioural history is consequently a world wherein unfettered discrimination becomes the celebrated norm, where only the super rich, the super gifted, the super lucky or the genetically well-endowed will ever be allowed to drive fast, eat bad food or to take any risk at all. As a consequence, it’s also a world where the poor or physically under-privileged become uninsurable (unless, of course, they’re prepared to be permanently tracked, controlled and monitored by their data overlords).