Donald Trump

pblakeney

It's not?

bendertherobot

He's not holding back on Syria today. I wonder what the Russian response will be?

orraloon

bendertherobot wrote:

He's not holding back on Syria today. I wonder what the Russian response will be?

He's probably had the ok from boss Vlad. Don't worry boss, I'll twit some nonsense but trust me, I won't mean it, ok? And please don't call in my debts just yet.

kingstongraham

bendertherobot wrote:

He's not holding back on Syria today. I wonder what the Russian response will be?

If he stuck to his promises of America first, surely he'd just say "not my problem".

robert88

KingstonGraham wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

He's not holding back on Syria today. I wonder what the Russian response will be?

If he stuck to his promises of America first, surely he'd just say "not my problem".

He can't. America First would only work if they find another planet to migrate to. A real New World.

It's what happens when you make up foreign policy on Twitter.

kingstongraham

Robert88 wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

He's not holding back on Syria today. I wonder what the Russian response will be?

If he stuck to his promises of America first, surely he'd just say "not my problem".

He can't. America First would only work if they find another planet to migrate to. A real New World.

It's what happens when you make up foreign policy on Twitter.

It's not true that he can't - he just won't be able to take the bad reviews if he does what he said he would, because it would mean deaths. And it would be the reviews that would bother him.

He's pursuing the worst of all possible policies by saying one thing one week and the opposite the next.

robert88

KingstonGraham wrote:

Robert88 wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

He's not holding back on Syria today. I wonder what the Russian response will be?

If he stuck to his promises of America first, surely he'd just say "not my problem".

He can't. America First would only work if they find another planet to migrate to. A real New World.

It's what happens when you make up foreign policy on Twitter.

It's not true that he can't - he just won't be able to take the bad reviews if he does what he said he would, because it would mean deaths. And it would be the reviews that would bother him.

He's pursuing the worst of all possible policies by saying one thing one week and the opposite the next.

The reason that he can't isn't simply the bad reviews but because the vacuum left by US forces would be filled by Russian influence and almost certainly the resurgence of IS. Allies such as Saudi and Israel and the French would be betrayed by US withdrawal. The mistake the US made in leaving Iraq to its own devices isn't forgotten. Also Trump has been too critical of Obama for being hands off to play the same game. He himself doesn't actually have a policy other than to watch Fox news.

kingstongraham

Robert88 wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Robert88 wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

He's not holding back on Syria today. I wonder what the Russian response will be?

If he stuck to his promises of America first, surely he'd just say "not my problem".

He can't. America First would only work if they find another planet to migrate to. A real New World.

It's what happens when you make up foreign policy on Twitter.

It's not true that he can't - he just won't be able to take the bad reviews if he does what he said he would, because it would mean deaths. And it would be the reviews that would bother him.

He's pursuing the worst of all possible policies by saying one thing one week and the opposite the next.

The reason that he can't isn't simply the bad reviews but because the vacuum left by US forces would be filled by Russian influence and almost certainly the resurgence of IS. Allies such as Saudi and Israel and the French would be betrayed by US withdrawal. The mistake the US made in leaving Iraq to its own devices isn't forgotten. Also Trump has been too critical of Obama for being hands off to play the same game. He himself doesn't actually have a policy other than to watch Fox news.

You are forgetting:
a) these consequences are reasons that he shouldn't, not that he can't.
b) he is entirely capable of holding two completely contradictory opinions - he has been critical of Obama both for being too hands off and for getting too involved

orraloon

KingstonGraham wrote:

...he has been critical of Obama for being too black

FTFY

kingstongraham

orraloon wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

...he has been critical of Obama for being too black

FTFY

Thanks for putting words in my mouth, but I don't think that.

I really do think he especially hates Obama for that correspondents' dinner (from the supervillain origin story).

robert88

KingstonGraham wrote:

Robert88 wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Robert88 wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

He's not holding back on Syria today. I wonder what the Russian response will be?

If he stuck to his promises of America first, surely he'd just say "not my problem".

He can't. America First would only work if they find another planet to migrate to. A real New World.

It's what happens when you make up foreign policy on Twitter.

It's not true that he can't - he just won't be able to take the bad reviews if he does what he said he would, because it would mean deaths. And it would be the reviews that would bother him.

He's pursuing the worst of all possible policies by saying one thing one week and the opposite the next.

The reason that he can't isn't simply the bad reviews but because the vacuum left by US forces would be filled by Russian influence and almost certainly the resurgence of IS. Allies such as Saudi and Israel and the French would be betrayed by US withdrawal. The mistake the US made in leaving Iraq to its own devices isn't forgotten. Also Trump has been too critical of Obama for being hands off to play the same game. He himself doesn't actually have a policy other than to watch Fox news.

You are forgetting:
a) these consequences are reasons that he shouldn't, not that he can't.
b) he is entirely capable of holding two completely contradictory opinions - he has been critical of Obama both for being too hands off and for getting too involved

It depends what 'America First' means. If it means remaining the world's most powerful nation then he cannot afford to effectively withdraw from the Middle East.

The US were forced to withdraw from Vietnam with devastating consequences to the nation's self-belief that resound to this day. The USSR lost a war in Afghanistan which thanks to US support of their opponents effectively ended the Soviet Union (and Cold War). Putin will not have forgotten that in a million years, nor will a great number of Americans.

FishFish

I think that America first means putting the interests of the USA above others. It does not mean no consideration for other states.

Actually being in Vietnam caused no end of loss of self belief and there was a succession of presidents promising to end the war - and lying to South Vietnam Kissinger and the Rand corporation were culpable in this. I did see an interesting comparison that in 1745 the Danish Court proclaimed that all public business had to be open whilst in 1964 Kennedy did not tell the USA that their citizens were being killed in Vietnam.

USSR split up because of nationalism in Cz, poland Ukraine and in Russia. Not because of some obscure issue in Waziristan.

bendertherobot

Mueller done a thing.

kingstongraham

bendertherobot wrote:

Mueller done a thing.

Like someone on twitter said, to raid a lawyer's office is a big step. To raid that lawyer's office would have needed some very persuasive evidence.

He just keeps ticking along, with no leaks at all ever.

FishFish

After Margaret Thatchers son's involvement in bribery of the Saudi Princes over the Al Yamamah arms deal the Metropolitan Police carried out investigations but were stopped by Tony Blair from continuing the investigations and in developing the prosecution case because it was not in the interests of the UK. Principals out of the window.

I'm not sure what is going on in this situation - I thought that all he did was go out with a fat Hoare which is hardly a crime - John Major and Tony Blair both did this albeit the third party was not fat - but it looks like this is leading up to an abandonment of legal privilege - which really is a crime and a constitutional one at that.

cooldad

FishFish wrote:

After Margaret Thatchers son's involvement in bribery of the Saudi Princes over the Al Yamamah arms deal the Metropolitan Police carried out investigations but were stopped by Tony Blair from continuing the investigations and in developing the prosecution case because it was not in the interests of the UK. Principals out of the window.

I'm not sure what is going on in this situation - I thought that all he did was go out with a fat Hoare which is hardly a crime - John Major and Tony Blair both did this albeit the third party was not fat - but it looks like this is leading up to an abandonment of legal privilege - which really is a crime and a constitutional one at that.

Then perhaps you should find out before commenting, Fishbot.

Hint - try illegal campaign contributions, which is illegal. (Hence illegal campaign contributions.)

ps. She is a pron actress, not a hooker - there is no debate that any money changed hands for the sex.

pps. Trump is still a cheating, lying, ignorant, misogynist slimeball.

bendertherobot

My Attorney Got Arrested

robert88

Approval for FBI raids given by Attorney for Southern New York, i.e. people appointed by, hand-picked by.. ..Donald Trump.

"It's being done because people think it's very serious, people think it's totally warranted, and people think there's evidence of significant enough nature.." Preet Bahara.

Wriggle out of that Fish. The scales of justice loom:

'If it falls to me to start a fight to cut out the cancer of bent and twisted journalism in our country with the simple sword of truth and the trusty shield of fair play, so be it. I am ready for the fight,' Trump [might have] said.

tangled_metal

I thought there were allegations that he tried to give her money but she turned it down. AFAIK that seems to imply he thought she was a hooker but she wasn't so turned it down. I bet he thought he'd got a frequent flyer discount / a freebie or something.

You know what, it's irrelevant to the story really. Whether a hooker or not, trump allegedly cheated on his wife with what he thought was a hooker. Is that not bad enough? Personally that's not to my preference in a politician or anyone. I prefer someone who doesn't cheat in anyway. One day I'll see that in a politician, I'm an optimist.

veronese68

Tangled Metal wrote:

I thought there were allegations that he tried to give her money but she turned it down.

I think that was the other porn star he shagged.

ballysmate

Tangled Metal wrote:

I thought there were allegations that he tried to give her money but she turned it down. AFAIK that seems to imply he thought she was a hooker but she wasn't so turned it down. I bet he thought he'd got a frequent flyer discount / a freebie or something.

You know what, it's irrelevant to the story really. Whether a hooker or not, trump allegedly cheated on his wife with what he thought was a hooker. Is that not bad enough? Personally that's not to my preference in a politician or anyone. I prefer someone who doesn't cheat in anyway. One day I'll see that in a politician, I'm an optimist.

I have never really grasped why in the past it has been deemed necessary for politicians to resign on account of extra marital affairs or for being exposed for having some peculiar fetish. All I would prefer is them to be good at their job. (Not for one minute saying Trump is btw). It seems to be an Anglo thing. In France for instance, an extra marital encounter would more likely be met by a Gallic shrug.
I can see the problem as regarding blackmail, but take away the stigma and you remove the threat of blackmail.

lostboysaint

You're remembering Mitterand's mistress and wife standing together at his funeral!

kingstongraham

FishFish wrote:

I'm not sure what is going on in this situation

Nor does anyone else. Apart from the fact that there was enough evidence put before Trump appointees to get search warrants for a lawyer's home, office and hotel room. We'll see what that was later.

Jumping to conclusions that it was (or wasn't) just about Stormy Daniels or just about the speech to the Ukrainians would be a mistake.

tangled_metal

Well if a politician is OK about cheating on his wife then his electorate has no chance!


Seriously though, I'm a simple kid of guy who's still hoping for honest, trustworthy individuals in government / positions of power. Now if it's common knowledge a public figure, such as a prominent politician, has an open marriage where both sides can go out and see whoever they wish then IMHO there's no trust issue. If it's necessary to try and keep something secret with payoffs and confidentiality agreements then there's something about a trust issue going on there.

Personally I don't agree with wanting to be French about this, or Italian (Berlusconi isn't a positive role model for politicians or morals IMHO). There is more acceptance of infidelity among men in France and other nations. It doesn't mean it's morally right. This is not the same as a fully open arrangement with both parties knowing and accepting the situation.

ballysmate

Jfk was a serial shagger. Did his shagging around affect his ability either positively or negatively as much as trying to conceal it from the pious?

lostboysaint

KingstonGraham wrote:

FishFish wrote:

I'm not sure what is going on in this situation

Nor does anyone else. Apart from the fact that there was enough evidence gathered by an enquiry team led by a Republican and approved by Trumpto put before Trump appointees to get search warrants for a lawyer's home, office and hotel room four days after the porn star's lawyer had warned Trump that his lawyer was about to sell him out. We'll see what that was later.

Jumping to conclusions that it was (or wasn't) just about Stormy Daniels or just about the speech to the Ukrainians would be a mistake.

Amended to reflect the whole picture.

robert88

Brits are just as at it as any one else. Major, Parkinson, Blunkett, Cook, Mellor, Jeremy Thorpe, Profumo, Boothby, Lloyd George, Asquith..

rjsterry

Ballysmate wrote:

Jfk was a serial shagger. Did his shagging around affect his ability either positively or negatively as much as trying to conceal it from the pious?

It's very often the serial shaggers who are the most pious in public. Quite how the American evangelicals are squaring their support of Trump with their beliefs, I don't know. Maybe they're all having affairs on the quiet, too.

tangled_metal

It doesn't affect his abilities but that's not the point. It's about trust and morals. If he's not open about it with the agreement of his wife then there's an issue. If he's concealing it then there's an issue. If others are concealing it for him then there's an issue.

lostboysaint

rjsterry wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

Jfk was a serial shagger. Did his shagging around affect his ability either positively or negatively as much as trying to conceal it from the pious?

It's very often the serial shaggers who are the most pious in public. Quite how the American evangelicals are squaring their support of Trump with their beliefs, I don't know. Maybe they're all having affairs on the quiet, too.

How Americans of any kind of persuasion are squaring their support is just beyond belief. This is a guy that's exempted his daughters products from import duty whilst singlehandedly crippling the farming economy of the whole country with the same tax on other products from the same country.