The Great Disc Brake Swindle?
Comments
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We re a remarkably troll free forum then - or your criteria are somewhat lacking...
We probably are a remarkably troll free forum. But my criteria probably are somewhat lacking as well. I forgot to mention those who choose to keep dragging things on when given an opportunity to stop.
Incidentally, the pro disc side is not helped by the somewhat feeble article on the front page - 5 reasons why a roadie should embrace disc brakes
1) They probably won't kill you in a crash. Who, really thinks that they would?
2) You can still change a wheel and fast. Of course you can. It's more irritating than with calipers but hardly that difficult. Would anyone outside of racing worry about this at all?
3) The technology isn't really new. Errr, no shit!
4) They work better when the weather gets foul. Bravo! At last a damn good reason to go for discs!
5) They'll only get better. Sounds like a reason to not get discs yet!
Hardly convincing stuff apart from 4.Faster than a tent.......0 -
I struggle to see the link between the iPod and disc brakes. If the contention is that calliper defenders are misguided because disc brakes will take over, just like the iPod did despite its shortsighted detractors, then that doesn’t apply to me: I believe discs will dominate the market in just a couple of years. Since disc brakes make every bicycle frame, fork, and groupset largely obsolete overnight, they are worth a fortune to the bicycle industry. They would replace callipers regardless of technical merit.0
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OnYourRight wrote:I’m talking about the possibility of losing my preferred brake type (the simple, cheap, elegant, and highly functional calliper rim brake) to market forces outside my control.I believe discs will dominate the market in just a couple of years.
They may well dominate but rim brakes will not become obsolete as I have evidenced above.Advocate of disc brakes.0 -
The front-page article is the usual clickbait from some hapless writer whose job it is to produce such stuff. It asks none of the right questions.
But this thread started by talking about the likes of Richard Hallett (technical editor at the CTC’s Cycle magazine) breaking ranks to question the switch to discs. It is interesting to note that the sharpest criticism of the stampede to discs comes from engineers and other technically knowledgeable people. Why might that be?0 -
^^^The point I took from it OYR is that not many people are good at judging how trends will go in the future. The point of the mac thread is that people who are nerdy/fanboi enough about apple products to join a forum about it almost all ( I think I saw 1 exception) panned the ipod when it was announced saying that it was expensive, looked rubbish, better options were already available - all the arguments against disc brakes used here in fact.
None of the, supposedly better informed and brand loyal posters saw it for the epoch making device it would turn out to be. I'm no apple fanboi (I tend to wind them up actually) but I mourn the passing of the ipod classic. There is nothing that can replace it.
Rolf's argument is so thin he is reduced to picking apart clearly lighthearted articles on disc brakes.
With Regard to Richard Hallett, I suspect that he is not somewhat biased against discs given the frames he builds.
With regard to your last, clearly biased and leading point, I think the benefits clearly speak for themselves, who would read an article from an engineer saying they re good, we know that already...We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Biggest issue for me, isnt if they work better or not, its the situation with amateur racing, IF BC say that disk and rim cannot be mixed, then a: will need new bikes and b: who will put on races, when the club members themselves dont have the bikes, or some do and some dont - or will it be left to the organiser to lay down the rules as can happen now, within the regs.
all the other advances in bike tech have never needed a completely new bike to compete with.0 -
^^^The point I took from it OYR is that not many people are good at judging how trends will go in the future. The point of the mac thread is that people who are nerdy/fanboi enough about apple products to join a forum about it almost all ( I think I saw 1 exception) panned the ipod when it was announced saying that it was expensive, looked rubbish, better options were already available - all the arguments against disc brakes used here in fact.
None of the, supposedly better informed and brand loyal posters saw it for the epoch making device it would turn out to be. I'm no apple fanboi (I tend to wind them up actually) but I mourn the passing of the ipod classic. There is nothing that can replace it.
Rolf's argument is so thin he is reduced to picking apart clearly lighthearted articles on disc brakes.
With Regard to Richard Hallett, I suspect that he is not somewhat biased against discs given the frames he builds.
With regard to your last, clearly biased and leading point, I think the benefits clearly speak for themselves, who would read an article from an engineer saying they re good, we know that already...
ipods were sh1te. My wife had 3 I think, they all broke even though she barely used them. Very well marketed though, managed to steam roller competitors. As for "nothing can replace the ipod classic", just stick a large memory card in your phone (or just download from the cloud, spotify etc).
Re disc brakes, I can see the benefits particularly for wet weather and preventing rim wear. Ideal for a winter bike, they generally look rubbish anyway with mudguards and stuff. Disc brakes on a summer best roadbike? It will probably become the norm, but that is a shame.0 -
One great advantage of disk brakes becoming standard is the flood of excellent used parts and frames in the market.
Can't wait for it.
The chances that I'll ever use a bike with disk brakes is zero.0 -
One great advantage of disk brakes becoming standard is the flood of excellent used parts and frames in the market.
Can't wait for it.
The chances that I'll ever use a bike with disk brakes is zero.
hey brothers of the blood
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The racing regs is probably the best argument against them at the moment. I think they'll have to allow mixed fields with both types of brakes in time, I don't see how they could switch from one type to another in one go.
For my use discs are a complete no brainer. I don't race and I don't have a summer bike, the bike I have gets used in all weather. The discs are never worse, yet are often better.0 -
ipods were sh1te. My wife had 3 I think, they all broke even though she barely used them. Very well marketed though, managed to steam roller competitors. As for "nothing can replace the ipod classic", just stick a large memory card in your phone (or just download from the cloud, spotify etc).
The card is still not big enough and Russian/Algerian Core Stores tend not to have stellar internet access...We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
The racing regs is probably the best argument against them at the moment. I think they'll have to allow mixed fields with both types of brakes in time, I don't see how they could switch from one type to another in one go.
For my use discs are a complete no brainer. I don't race and I don't have a summer bike, the bike I have gets used in all weather. The discs are never worse, yet are often better.
i dont know, IF some of the pro's are to be believed, wet weather braking points and distances are too great, that being the case, i cant see mixed racing being allowed and in some larger amateur races, say Divs and some pro am events, neutral service would be a non starter, so my guess is BC wont allow discs for a long time yet, they want participation and not anything that might limit that.
There is also youth racing to be considered.0 -
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/five-reasons-why-roadies-should-embrace-disc-brakes-45840/
The guys have asked me to get some feedback from you guys on this if you get a minute!BikeRadar Communities Manager0 -
There are some comments on it on the previous page of this thread.0
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(1) not really a consideration
(2) you can remove and replace the same wheel as quick as with rim brakes. The problem can arise if you put a different wheel back in.
(3) has worked fine for years with only a quick tweak on my mountain bike
(4) rim brakes for me are very poor in the wet. With discs more consistent, powerful and more control.
(5) they are developed from mature mountain bike discs.
It is similar to when discs first arrived on mountain bikes, a few technical hitches, alot of exaggerated scare stories and once people tried them they became widespread. Most people who are against discs have not tried good quality disc brakes on a road bike. For some rim brakes are their personal preference0 -
I think the Cyclistes Professionnels Associés union hit the nail on the head with this recent statement (after moaning that its generally anti-disc views are being ignored):
“It is well-known that the cycle industries are major financial partners of our sport and that sometimes it is very difficult to oppose.”
It is unhealthy for several reasons to have bicycle manufacturers as title sponsors, but that situation will persist at least until the current cycling boom (i.e. cycling as the new golf) dies down.
That said, I don’t agree with the CPA’s reasons for caution. Mixing discs and rim callipers won’t cause more crashes, and if it did it would be the riders to blame, not the discs. This is like blaming rain and roundabouts for crashes, another thing the CPA has done in the past.
Of course discs will in no way improve the racing, just as aerodynamic wheels and all the other stuff didn’t. The changes are for the manufacturers’ benefit, not the spectators’.0 -
Lots of people argue the case for and against disc brakes from the perspective of racing. Let's not forget that pro racers get paid to ride the bikes we ride on the roads. It's the likes of us roadies that keep manufacturers in business.
Not meaning to sound harsh, but regardless of whether discs are beneficial to racing or not, it's road cyclists that should get the main consideration when it comes to technical advances. A bit more weight isn't really an issue for us and these arguments over hot discs and sharp edges in racing, although not really an issue imo isn't an issue at all on the road.
I love everything to do with cycling including racing but from a slightly selfish point of view bikes were built primarily for Joe public to get from a to b. I do love watching the grand tours but I won't lose sleep worrying if contador might reach a summit 10 seconds slower on a disc bike than a rim braked bike. After all, he makes millions out of riding his bike. If he happens to crash he may singe a bit of skin on a hot disc(not that likely) or take three seconds longer to get a wheel changed. Hardly life or death issues.argon 18 e116 2013 Vision Metron 80
Bianchi Oltre XR Sram Red E-tap, Fulcrum racing speed xlr
De Rosa SK pininfarina disc
S Works Tarmac e-tap 2017
Rose pro sl disc0 -
One great advantage of disk brakes becoming standard is the flood of excellent used parts and frames in the market.
Can't wait for it.
The chances that I'll ever use a bike with disk brakes is zero.
You live in Holland so don't even need brakes.Advocate of disc brakes.0 -
Ride also a lot in mountains, but my interest in brakes is still very low.
Might be different if I was an allweather commuter.....0 -
As much as I am in favour of disc brakes, I wouldn't buy a road bike with disc brakes right now... but this is simply based on what is available on the market today.
Every single one I have seen is over 1 Kg heavier than a similarly priced rim braked bike (those with a carbon frame are on average 8.5 Kg, the alloy ones are around 9 Kg) and they all have stupid "sportive" geometries with very long head tubes, which suit men with a large gut.
If I wanted a road bike with discs, I'd probably get a Focus Mares and fit a pair of road tyres/light wheels to it... it seems to have a more aggressive riding position than most road bikes on the market.
If they want to shift them, they need to make them competitive in weight with the rim brakes offeringsleft the forum March 20230 -
But how? The fork has to be stronger to resist the large bending forces imposed by the disc brake, while the rear has to be similarly beefed up, albeit to a lesser extent due to the lower traction of the rear wheel.If they want to shift them, they need to make them competitive in weight with the rim brakes offerings0 -
You don't need to beef up the rear. Most modern bikes have thin seat stays and chunky chains stays that are easily strong enough. If you look at the rear triangle on an XC frame it's not that different to a road bike. The extra weight in the fork will be offset when they realise that you can make the brake side leg heavier and get most of the weight back by slimming or even eliminating the other leg. Cannondale should fix it. As far as the brifters are concerned, I think they should consider separating the brakes from the gears. They tried fully combined brifters in MTB for a while but they didn't catch on as it stops you using brakes that don't match your gears.
But how? The fork has to be stronger to resist the large bending forces imposed by the disc brake, while the rear has to be similarly beefed up, albeit to a lesser extent due to the lower traction of the rear wheel.If they want to shift them, they need to make them competitive in weight with the rim brakes offerings
i think Spesh might disagree, their carbon CRUX range suffered rear tri breaks where the disk mount is.
Cant see how you can separate shifters from the brakes, on a mtb its easy because of the larger horizontal mounting area, not so on a drop bar road bike, maybe with full electronic but there is price to consider.
best leave well alone then
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You'd think most of that was pretty obvious to the majority, but it would appear not from some of the posts on this thread.http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/five-reasons-why-roadies-should-embrace-disc-brakes-45840/
The guys have asked me to get some feedback from you guys on this if you get a minute!
1: Doesn't really warrant a comment. A brake disc is one of the least of my problems if I've had a crash.
2: The speed of getting a wheel in and out is an irrelevance to all but the most serious of racers.
3: Technology certainly isn't new. But somehow SRAM still cocked it up in freezing conditions.
4: Much better in bad weather from my personal experience.
5: They will get better/cheaper. But they are already pretty good and I'm on an old lash up, I mean Parabox.0 -
Cant see how you can separate shifters from the brakes, on a mtb its easy because of the larger horizontal mounting area, not so on a drop bar road bike, maybe with full electronic but there is price to consider.
best leave well alone then
I figure you have a hydro brake lever and a separate gear lever that mounts from below with a double ended lever. one end points up for use on the hoods and the other points down for use on the drops. Sram double tap type mechanism so you only need one paddle. You have more room to work with as the extra power of the hydros means the brake lever can be slimmer.
mmmm cant see how you d make it slim enough for climbing/riding on the hoods.
MTB hydros allow for moving the gear shifters in board for crash protection and of course you only ever need one digit to brake with, the others wrapped around the grip.
Dont get me wrong, if i could have the grip, modulation & power that my mtb and xt brakes give me plus the lack of crr that my road bike has and its light weight, i d be all for it (looks aside) but it aint there and i m not sure it can ever be.0 -
The racing regs is probably the best argument against them at the moment. I think they'll have to allow mixed fields with both types of brakes in time, I don't see how they could switch from one type to another in one go.
For my use discs are a complete no brainer. I don't race and I don't have a summer bike, the bike I have gets used in all weather. The discs are never worse, yet are often better.
That.Trail fun - Transition Bandit
Road - Wilier Izoard Centaur/Cube Agree C62 Disc
Allround - Cotic Solaris0 -
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/five-reasons-why-roadies-should-embrace-disc-brakes-45840/
The guys have asked me to get some feedback from you guys on this if you get a minute!
2: The speed of getting a wheel in and out is an irrelevance to all but the most serious of racers.
arguably its more important at lower level road races where you only have neutral service and no team mates able to drop back to get you back on...0
