The Great Disc Brake Swindle?
Comments
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The high-disposable-income cyclists leading the charge to discs also lead sedentary lives and have low grip strength compared to the predominantly working-class cyclists of the past. I suspect that plays a part.
Love this part... love it, love it, love it...
the pathetic emo child attitude of the UK cyclist in a nutshell - thank god the rest of the world is nt like them!
Have you been out into the world recently?My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
https://twitter.com/roubaixcc
Facebook? No. Just say no.0 -
yep - the actual world. Including, last weekend, the so called spiritual home of "hardman cycling" or some such nonsense
And yet you didn't meet the pathetic emo child like attitude of the rest of the non cycling world at the same time?My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
https://twitter.com/roubaixcc
Facebook? No. Just say no.0 -
We won't mention tyres blowing out due to heat build up or rim wear leading to replacement at best or catastrophic failure at worst then.The truth is an aluminium bicycle rim is an excellent disc. Its main downside is susceptibility to water, but Scott-Mathauser solved that problem adequately many years ago.0 -
I will never mention tyres blowing out because I've never expierienced them in 40 years riding in the mountains.
Mainly due to latex tubes.(which I don't use )0 -
Taken to an extreme, it’s why Morse code operators did not set up their own radio and keyer before transmitting: lifting heavy things ruined their fine motor control for tens of minutes afterward.
Most interesting thing I've read on here for a while (if it's true).0 -
And here’s a motorcycle disc trying to emulate a bicycle rim, the ultimate disc but one whose money-spinning capacity no longer meets industry expectations:
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I don't pretend to be a motorcycle expert, but isn't that just a big disc brake? It's not at all like a bike because it's not braking on the rim.
The 'problem' with caliper brakes (or the thing discs overcome) is rim wear (I hate that sound of grinding paste wearing them away on wet rides) and the ability to run HUGE tyres (if that's your thing).0 -
I think a lot of it comes down to what you are used to. My first road bike had Tiagra brakes, which weren't great at stopping quickly and controllably from the hoods, but which were OK when braking from the drops (using the full length of the lever, rather than using half the length of the lever when braking from the hoods). My current bike has Chorus brakes which are good when braking from the hoods and exceptional when braking from the drops.
If my only experience was with Tiagra brakes, and I rarely rode on the drops, I'd probably consider disc brakes as being a better option. But I know that top-end rim brakes give me all the power and feel/modulation I need, particularly when braking from the drops, and so I don't have to engage with the weight/complexity/ugliness of disc brakes. To say that "even good quality dual pivot callipers are terrifyingly inadequate" is bizarre to say the least when almost all of them are quite capable (tyre traction permitting) of pitching you straight over the handlebars.0 -
I've never had any problems with my grip strength braking from the hoods, even in the wet. However, I'd still get discs on a new bike, especially a winter bike.
They just feel miles better and are much more confidence inspiring (mainly in the wet), so when I next buy a winter bike it will probably have discs. Unfortunately my current one is not going to need replacing any time soon, so that will probably be quite a long time away.0 -
There is much to be said for a good hydraulic disc. I was a late convert to discs on a hardtail MTB and I was (very pleasantly) shocked by the fade-free, grit-free, consistent slowing and stopping that I could achieve in ghastly conditions and on steep, rough descents with one finger. I resented the move away from cables and familiarity, but the job was done so well that I sold out to the Devil and now ride off-road with hydraulic discs.
I know people (serious people) who swear by discs on a road bike - and I can imagine they have a point... but I have rarely been let down by the low-tech Campagnolo or Shimano caliper brakes I use on these toys. I have suffered brake fade, but generally as a result of not being prudent with brake use on a big descent. Similarly, I have seen rims scratched and gouged, but not in a way that I find scares me or makes me want to move away from rim brakes on the road. You may say I don't ride hard enough or in foul enough conditions, but I ride a fair bit, fairly fast and in pretty grotty weather.
My main issue with behaviour under braking on a road bike has been lack of grip from the tyre, not lack of retardation from the brakes. Indeed, I or any seven-year-old you care to name can lock the rear brake of any bicycle on the grippiest tarmac. Similarly, most of us can stand a bicycle on its front wheel at will (sometimes by accident).
Discs are lovely for those who want them - as I do on an MTB - and rim brakes are the absolute mustard if that's what you want on a road bike - as I do. It doesn't have to be tribal and geeky. We just ride what we ride.
Carry on.0 -
Please explain precisely what you mean by these meaningless terms. You’re not writing a BikeRadar review here. Use real words that haven’t been debased by marketing departments.They just feel miles better and are much more confidence inspiring (mainly in the wet)
It's kind of hard to explain it without using any words that might have been in bikeradar once...
They feel better in the wet (very wet, not just drizzle) because you don't have water on the rims, the issue where the brakes don't immediately bite doesn't happen. Admittedly, it is easy to get around this issue on regular brakes just by braking a bit early - it's just nice not to have to worry about it.
I ran a set of Hayes HFX9s (cheap-ish MTB discs) on a bike from 2004 to 2010 through all conditions with minimal servicing (couple of new sets of pads), whereas my experience of road biking is that the brakes (pads and rims) need quite a bit more attention to keep performance good. So, that would be nice too.
Not getting rim wear would also be a happy side effect, since the ones I rode through last winter are pretty knackered.
I don't really buy your argument about having to squeeze hard to get good braking being a good thing; while I have never hit a tree or crashed into a car etc etc because of having to apply lots of pressure from the hoods or drops I don't agree that having braking power more easily available would make my life any worse.
I take your point about cost and needless upgrading and so on, but the cost will come down as they get more common (MTB systems are pretty cheap these days), and I'm certainly not planning on going and buying a disc bike the second they're available. But they would be in my "nice to have" category.
Have you tried a disc equipped road bike?0 -
My biggest turn off when it comes to disks at the moment is the uncertainty.
I fully intend to get a cyclocross bike with disks in the near future (and then I can use that as a test bed to decide properly for myself if they live up to the hype) because going off road and year round use as a commuter will make life easier by not having to clean the rims after every wet ride or feel the sandpaper like grit eat away pads and rim.
But for the high performance race machine I'm aiming for in the next year or so- that's where the problems start. I don't have a problem with calliper brakes- the modern versions are brilliant and on a dedicated race bike maintenance/ cleaning isn't a concern- it will be very well looked after no matter what. But what would bother me is if 3 years down the line disks are allowed into amateur racing and means I can't race it any more with standard callipers.
But I couldn't get a high performance disk road bike at the moment because they aren't yet allowed in races, and the only one that looks racy enough at the moment (the Specialized Tarmac disk) has proprietary kit to fit the disks into the small rear end. Also what will the availability of wheels be like down the road with all the different axle standards?
That's my biggest concern with actually committing to disks atm- the uncertainty. I'm sure in 3 years time we will know for certain, and road disks will probably have had most or all of their current flaws (heat, pad compounds etc) designed out- but that's still some time away yet.0 -
I have both calliper and a CX bike with discs, and find both fine, except in wet weather, when the CX / hack bike comes out...I know that form should follow function, but is it only me that finds the aesthetic of the road discs a bit awkward? The whole 2 cross 24 spoke front end and big chunks of disc calliper, ruins the look for me- anyone else have the same view- or do I have to learn to stomach it?0
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Unless you are someone that takes the Rules seriously, you should know the answer to that....or do I have to learn to stomach it?0 -
I can't see my bike when I'm riding it so I don't really care.....
That.Trail fun - Transition Bandit
Road - Wilier Izoard Centaur/Cube Agree C62 Disc
Allround - Cotic Solaris0 -
Guess it's just me that thinks they look hideous then :-)0
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I can't see my bike when I'm riding it so I don't really care.....
I'm a designer, so I care.....(rightly or wrongly)!0 -
I'm an aesthete, so I care...(rightly). And it's not just the calipers and rotors and wheels...the hoods are hideous too.
I would no more buy of these monstrosities than I would a Toyota Prius or a Harley Road Glide. Especially when the benefit is so marginal.0 -
I'm an aesthete, so I care...(rightly). And it's not just the calipers and rotors and wheels...the hoods are hideous too.
I would no more buy of these monstrosities than I would a Toyota Prius or a Harley Road Glide. Especially when the benefit is so marginal.
That argument can be challenged too... nothing prettier than a frame with no stuff bolted on. Calipers ruin the flow of lines in a way disc don't, as they are confined to the extremities of the frame.
Long story short, old frames are very elegant, but modern frames with calipers are not particularly attractive.left the forum March 20230 -
I think the best thing about disc brakes is that I might actually be able to convince myself that high end wheels aren't a waste of money now that I know the rims aren't going to ware out. I can spend £2K on wheels and ware out a £5 disc when braking in stead of a very expensive carbon rim.
yes and no. They won't last forever... every single component wears out to an extent and replacement parts are not always easy to sourceleft the forum March 20230 -
'Monstrosities' is a bit strong. My De Rosa frame looks beautiful without a rear caliper cluttering up the flowing lines of the seatstays. I think people need to get a bit of a grip on this whole disc brake issue. I'd bet if they started putting caliper brakes back on mountain bikes everyone would be saying how shite they look.I'm an aesthete, so I care...(rightly). And it's not just the calipers and rotors and wheels...the hoods are hideous too.
I would no more buy of these monstrosities than I would a Toyota Prius or a Harley Road Glide. Especially when the benefit is so marginal.
Also, dont knock discs on a roadbike until you try it, which i'll bet a lot the naysayers haven't.argon 18 e116 2013 Vision Metron 80
Bianchi Oltre XR Sram Red E-tap, Fulcrum racing speed xlr
De Rosa SK pininfarina disc
S Works Tarmac e-tap 2017
Rose pro sl disc0 -
My next road bike will be disc specific.
There is no point doing otherwise (and theyr'e awesome)Advocate of disc brakes.0 -
My next road bike will be disc specific.
There is no point doing otherwise (and theyr'e awesome)
Ditto.Trail fun - Transition Bandit
Road - Wilier Izoard Centaur/Cube Agree C62 Disc
Allround - Cotic Solaris0 -
'Monstrosities' is a bit strong. My De Rosa frame looks beautiful without a rear caliper cluttering up the flowing lines of the seatstays. I think people need to get a bit of a grip on this whole disc brake issue. I'd bet if they started putting caliper brakes back on mountain bikes everyone would be saying how shite they look.I'm an aesthete, so I care...(rightly). And it's not just the calipers and rotors and wheels...the hoods are hideous too.
I would no more buy of these monstrosities than I would a Toyota Prius or a Harley Road Glide. Especially when the benefit is so marginal.
Also, dont knock discs on a roadbike until you try it, which i'll bet a lot the naysayers haven't.
Surely though not being able to stop in the wet is part of a bicycles charm? i mean look at all the folk who are into classic cars and M/C s ? do they try and fit disks, ABS and Sat nav to their 1950's MG or TR ? exactly
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Well no beacuse they're old and shit, therefor your point is invalid.Advocate of disc brakes.0
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'Monstrosities' is a bit strong. My De Rosa frame looks beautiful without a rear caliper cluttering up the flowing lines of the seatstays. I think people need to get a bit of a grip on this whole disc brake issue. I'd bet if they started putting caliper brakes back on mountain bikes everyone would be saying how shite they look.I'm an aesthete, so I care...(rightly). And it's not just the calipers and rotors and wheels...the hoods are hideous too.
I would no more buy of these monstrosities than I would a Toyota Prius or a Harley Road Glide. Especially when the benefit is so marginal.
Also, dont knock discs on a roadbike until you try it, which i'll bet a lot the naysayers haven't.
Surely though not being able to stop in the wet is part of a bicycles charm? i mean look at all the folk who are into classic cars and M/C s ? do they try and fit disks, ABS and Sat nav to their 1950's MG or TR ? exactly
A friend of mine who restores Jaguar XKs has a "shopping list" of options and the most people always spec the brake upgrades
Trail fun - Transition Bandit
Road - Wilier Izoard Centaur/Cube Agree C62 Disc
Allround - Cotic Solaris0
