B E N D E R's non sweary review site, roubaixcycling.cc (and general kit discussion)

robbo2011

dazz_ni45 wrote:

Potenza ordered too. Couldn't resist.

I've ended up with the following jackets/winter jerseys:
Castelli Alpha Jacket
Castelli Alpha Jersey
Castelli Perfetto LS (tags still on so may return but got it for £95)
Sportful Grupetto Partial Jacket
Rapha Pro Team Training Jacket (the one BTR was selling, just wait for it to arrive)
RH+ Tornado Jacket
RH+ Alpha Neo Jacket

Too much overlap so need to decide what stays and what goes!

That's just bonkers, IMO. When are you going to wear all of these things? You could easily get by from deep winter to late spring with just two items, the Alpha Jacket and the Alpha Jersey.

I blame BTR for turning everyone into kit fetishists. Imelda Marcos has nothing on you guys

kingstonian

Blimey, some of you have enough jerseys and jackets to set up a shop !

I was going to get a new winter jacket but instead on cold days I am wearing an Under Armour winter thermal, my Gabba long sleeve (the convertible one) and a Rapha gilet over the top. Was toasty warm at -4 degrees a few weeks ago and if the temp rose much above freezing I'd take off the gilet.

dazz_ni45

In my defence the perfetto and pro team and new purchases and apart from the RH+ Alpha Neo, the rest have all got a lot of use (I blame the N Irish weather).... But yes, something has to go and the first choice will be between the pro team and the perfetto

fenix

Guys guys - it's getting warmer at the weekend - don't be out in your double thermals or you'll burst into flames !

I do hate it when the weather changes. I have my kit all dialled in and then I have to begin all over again.

mrb123

dazz_ni45 wrote:

In my defence the perfetto and pro team and new purchases and apart from the RH+ Alpha Neo, the rest have all got a lot of use (I blame the N Irish weather).... But yes, something has to go and the first choice will be between the pro team and the perfetto

The thing is with the Alpha Jersey and Pro Team Training (I have both) that although they are very similar in terms of temperature range, they will get a huge amount of use in typical British conditions.

Using different base layers from light summer vests through to warm merino or Hello Hansens should cover temperatures from low teens down to somewhere near freezing. That probably covers 80 or 90% of the rides we do in this country!

That's what I'm telling myself anyway!

dazz_ni45

MrB123 wrote:

dazz_ni45 wrote:

In my defence the perfetto and pro team and new purchases and apart from the RH+ Alpha Neo, the rest have all got a lot of use (I blame the N Irish weather).... But yes, something has to go and the first choice will be between the pro team and the perfetto

The thing is with the Alpha Jersey and Pro Team Training (I have both) that although they are very similar in terms of temperature range, they will get a huge amount of use in typical British conditions.

Using different base layers from light summer vests through to warm merino or Hello Hansens should cover temperatures from low teens down to somewhere near freezing. That probably covers 80 or 90% of the rides we do in this country!

That's what I'm telling myself anyway!

Do you find you use the Alpha and Pro Team in differing conditions?

mrb123

dazz_ni45 wrote:

MrB123 wrote:

dazz_ni45 wrote:

In my defence the perfetto and pro team and new purchases and apart from the RH+ Alpha Neo, the rest have all got a lot of use (I blame the N Irish weather).... But yes, something has to go and the first choice will be between the pro team and the perfetto

The thing is with the Alpha Jersey and Pro Team Training (I have both) that although they are very similar in terms of temperature range, they will get a huge amount of use in typical British conditions.

Using different base layers from light summer vests through to warm merino or Hello Hansens should cover temperatures from low teens down to somewhere near freezing. That probably covers 80 or 90% of the rides we do in this country!

That's what I'm telling myself anyway!

Do you find you use the Alpha and Pro Team in differing conditions?

Hard to say yet as I've not had them long. Bender may be able to give a better answer.

Both have proved they can handle some pretty low temperatures with the right base layer. Will need some warmer weather before I can judge what their upper temperature limits are.

I probably prefer the appearance and cut of the Rapha slightly. The short front means it sits perfectly in a riding position. The reflectives are also a plus point over the Alpha. I'd probably prefer it to be a bit longer at the back though and the pockets are positioned a bit high.

The collar, waist and cuffs of the Alpha are amazing and it's a lovely soft fabric. It tends to bunch up a bit more in a riding position and I'm not too keen on the black back with zero reflective material. I also had to send one Alpha back due to a quality control issue.

letap73

Bender - can you confirm that the Potenza runs warmer than the Alpha jersey? Much like Mr B I have used the Alpha jersey with a variety of baselayers, however, with regards to temperature range I have primarily used the Alpha jersey at less than 0C - much above that and I start to overheat - perhaps the secondary layer works particularly well for me.
Looking forward to the ijHabu review which I think is marvellous in the right weather conditions - unfortunately I also think it is rather inflexible in that it operates in such a narrow temperature range.

apreading

letap73 wrote:

Bender - can you confirm that the Potenza runs warmer than the Alpha jersey? Much like Mr B I have used the Alpha jersey with a variety of baselayers, however, with regards to temperature range I have primarily used the Alpha jersey at less than 0C - much above that and I start to overheat - perhaps the secondary layer works particularly well for me.
Looking forward to the ijHabu review which I think is marvellous in the right weather conditions - unfortunately I also think it is rather inflexible in that it operates in such a narrow temperature range.

What I am reading between the lines is that the Potenza is a warmer material but that it doesnt stop the wind as well as the Alpha and isnt as water resistant. So when moving at speed on the bike, the Potenza is probably a similar warmth but more breathable so less sweaty but not so good at keeping the rain out. When you slow down on hills and there is no wind, the Potenza is probably warmer but again breathes better so which would be more sweaty is perhaps debateable.

Of course this could be a totally wrong assessment as it is just based on the reviews I have read and what I imagine to be some rational thoughts...

bendertherobot

Lots to get through there.

The Rapha and Alpha take slightly different approaches to the same problem. Cool and/or damp weather riding. It's all in the fit and, on me, the Alpha edges that. Because of the fit I prefer how it feels. But both are as effective in the rain as each other. Warmth is pretty much on a par. At least for me. I find the arms on the Alpha slightly thinner and more breathable yet offering as much protection. At RRP they are closely matched, so in terms of fit and slightly more versatility (the gilet thing) I'd go Alpha. Most of the year the Alpha is cheaper. So, Alpha for me.

The, the Potenza. Rationally if you wore a standard walking fleece on a bike you'd be warm but the wind gets through. Now, it's a bit like a really chunky thermal jersey. Castelli Cafe echo my advice on sizing down. Chiefly because the arms are bulkier, like a real fleece. It's not windproof but, if you generate and regulate heat constantly, as it does, windproofing doesn't really matter. So you never feel cold in it. Stick in a suitable base layer and you get down to some single digit temps.

0 degrees? I'd probably not, not unless there was no wind around. But I guess you could. You can also get rid of the base layer altogether and wear it 10 degrees or so.

I really like it a lot. I think I like it as much as the Alpha as it's that bit warmer most of the time.

dazz_ni45

So how does the perfetto (ls) fit into the mix. It's an absolutely perfect fit on me and for that reason I hate to return it so trying to justify keeping it....

bendertherobot

Well, I mean, it is great in foul weather, for me I saw it as being for that. Not really for non rainy days, but it does that fine. I'd say it's a bit warmer than the Mossa in that respect, but not as waterproof. I'd take the Alpha over the Perfetto every day myself, despite it being, in theory, less waterproof.

bendertherobot

letap73 wrote:

Bender - can you confirm that the Potenza runs warmer than the Alpha jersey? Much like Mr B I have used the Alpha jersey with a variety of baselayers, however, with regards to temperature range I have primarily used the Alpha jersey at less than 0C - much above that and I start to overheat - perhaps the secondary layer works particularly well for me.
Looking forward to the ijHabu review which I think is marvellous in the right weather conditions - unfortunately I also think it is rather inflexible in that it operates in such a narrow temperature range.

yeah, the Habu.

In many ways it's one of my favourite Assos pieces. Super technically advanced but, perhaps, just undone by what everyone else is doing.

I adore it but that's probably a little irrational. Mine is python green. Oh, I also have a TIburu in the same colour. And how on earth can a £150 thermal jersey be better than a) the Potenza but b) the dhb Aeron?

Finally, there are loads of new Assos products sneaking out. No fanfare. Have a look at this, for example, which is, if you like AMG branding, a very cheap Falkenzahn.

https://www.assos.com/en_m/assos-road-c ... mvest-evo8

There's a new Tiburu jersey, which may be as a result of the sleeve bleed on the old one.

https://www.assos.com/en_m/assos-road-c ... iburu-evo7

And the Neo Pro shorts have been updated or, at least, renamed to the Mille

luv2ride

Potenza jersey turned up. Nice bit of kit. Initial observations (without riding in it) are that it is definitely more roomy than other Castelli tops I have, maybe apart from a Mortirolo (but that's a jacket, more designed for layering under I think). Also, whilst nice and stretchy, it's noticeable less "supportive" than other thermal/ Windstopper tops. Probably no real surprise given its a fleece, but does show the protruding stomach more than others :oops:

Otherwise, certainly longer in the body and the arms than my Gabbas or Alpha, so maybe a small would be better. Good news is it fits under all my rainshells, so maybe not as bulky as I'd thought it might be - could be great in deep winter with my Pave jacket.

BTR - how did you find sizing down from the XL to L?

The mirage is nice colourway....shame it's now comfortably double figures temp wise!

bendertherobot

Luv2ride wrote:

Potenza jersey turned up. Nice bit of kit. Initial observations (without riding in it) are that it is definitely more roomy than other Castelli tops I have, maybe apart from a Mortirolo (but that's a jacket, more designed for layering under I think). Also, whilst nice and stretchy, it's noticeable less "supportive" than other thermal/ Windstopper tops. Probably no real surprise given its a fleece, but does show the protruding stomach more than others :oops:

Otherwise, certainly longer in the body and the arms than my Gabbas or Alpha, so maybe a small would be better. Good news is it fits under all my rainshells, so maybe not as bulky as I'd thought it might be - could be great in deep winter with my Pave jacket.

BTR - how did you find sizing down from the XL to L?

The mirage is nice colourway....shame it's now comfortably double figures temp wise!

Haven't ordered yet as deciding which colour!

luv2ride

You've got blue already right? The mirage colour is nice, but the patterning on the surface fabric looks to be more of a "hawks tooth"(?) print than the dimpled 3D effect I was expecting from the photos I'd seen. Its all a bit "Harris tweed" so a bit different I guess.. Anthracite is always going to look great, but like DB I'm a sucker for a hint of flouro

bendertherobot

Luv2ride wrote:

You've got blue already right? The mirage colour is nice, but the patterning on the surface fabric looks to be more of a "hawks tooth"(?) print than the dimpled 3D effect I was expecting from the photos I'd seen. Its all a bit "Harris tweed" so a bit different I guess.. Anthracite is always going to look great, but like DB I'm a sucker for a hint of flouro

The blue is with my neighbour now. So it's a choice between blue again or mirage.

luv2ride

Not sure this helps?

bendertherobot

It does. A lot of my kit (helmet etc) is green/yellow accented so I reckon that will fit in better.

apreading

Darnit - feeling tempted now but the 10% off at Merlin has finished. Think I will hold off a while longer so thats probably a good thing but I reckon if they bring the promotion back I might be too weak to resist...

luv2ride

...plus it's forecast to get to 17 degrees on Monday, due to the meteorological phenomenon called the Foehn effect.

bendertherobot

Back to single figures end of next week.

roubaixmb

looks minging and way too thick for my liking

bendertherobot

It's not as thick as it looks. But thicker, yes, than a thermal jersey.

flasher

It does look like it should have a North Face logo on rather than Castelli!

luv2ride

Flasher wrote:

It does look like it should have a North Face logo on rather than Castelli!

Agreed. Not sure how they justify the £175 RRP, £90 odd does seem more realistic. It does have some very nice features though (notably the new style collar and cuffs which seem insanely comfortable, in that you seriously forget they're there).

I was reading the Castelli website earlier and according to their own ratings my Velocissimo jersey is as insulating, more breathable and, for me, offers a better fit. It also matches my Velocissimo gilet which looks exactly like a Fawesome vest to me. Undecided whether to keep the Potenza....

bendertherobot

£175 is way too much for this. But at £100 it competes with other premium stuff well. It's more jacket than jersey, as is the rage. Look beyond how it looks and use it for how it feels. It's seriously good, for me anyway.

robbo2011

I think it looks alright and the design premise of a warm, yet very breathable jersey makes an awful lot of sense. I would buy one if I did not have enough other kit. Maybe one of the successor versions in a few years time.

bendertherobot

Spot on Robbo. And that's what we have here, something that tries to be usable without taking the usual route.

Anyway, OT, kind of, Deda have brought this out and I am SO on it.

https://www.merlincycles.com/deda-super ... 94403.html

That's going on the Six with my existing superzero stem.

Quins

Quins wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

Prob XL but you might sneak into a large. I take XL with 35 waist, 5ft 10. XL alpha

Just ordered XL and L , got price match on Wiggle ( and I've got trains delayed refund of £50 coming...)Fingers crossed that one pair fits, they get good reviews.

They arrived today, just tried them on. The large feel better than XL, v snug but the pad sits better. The straps are tighter than my DHBs but not cutting, the weight I've dropped since Xmas is paying didvends. The XL deffo not as snug and the pad makes me feel like I've got a chimps ar$e thing going on, it feels huge, concerned that it will cause some friction issue, so I think the L unless I've not taken something else into consideration? ( other than stacking weight back on next Xmas....)