VW diesel emissions in the US
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Other manufacturers are noticeable by their silence.
Good luck with that
Might be a difficult one to win but you would start by pointing out those 11M cars were not fit for sale and would have been sold if VW had not cheated. Therefore the market would have been open to other manufacturers. You would expect them to get roughly their market share of those sales where they had a competing product.
I wonder why?
Well, I don't actually, I have strong suspicions.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Good luck with that
Might be a difficult one to win but you would start by pointing out those 11M cars were not fit for sale and would have been sold if VW had not cheated. Therefore the market would have been open to other manufacturers. You would expect them to get roughly their market share of those sales where they had a competing product.
It would be a difficult one to start. What legal basis would you bring a claim on. Let's start with the UK.My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
https://twitter.com/roubaixcc
Facebook? No. Just say no.0 -
Good luck with that
Might be a difficult one to win but you would start by pointing out those 11M cars were not fit for sale and would have been sold if VW had not cheated. Therefore the market would have been open to other manufacturers. You would expect them to get roughly their market share of those sales where they had a competing product.
It would be a difficult one to start. What legal basis would you bring a claim on. Let's start with the UK.
The legal basis would be that the emissions being so far above the claimed amount that they did not pass regulations and were sold illegally. If they had not cheated they would not have been able to sell them.
I guess I am presupposing that there is an absolute limit and that it was crossed. In the UK and the rest of the EU the regulations are not as strict as in the US. It might be that even though the emissions were well over the claimed amount they may still have been within the limit. I suspect that they would not have been able to sell them but we would have to look at the figures to work that one out.
If the cars had not been sold due to failing regulations then the market would have been open to the other manufacturers. Next you would have to establish that the majority of cars sales are not vanity purchases, they are purchased through necessity. The point is that the customer would have purchased a different manufacturers car. So that gap in the market would have been filled by the other manufacturers that have a competing product in that market segment.0 -
So the Americans are going to have theirs bought back off them, but VW are holding a finger up to Europe and telling them to spin on it lol.
I hope they are forced to buy them all back and go under personally.0 -
Carbonator wrote:So the Americans are going to have theirs bought back off them, but VW are holding a finger up to Europe and telling them to spin on it lol.
I hope they are forced to buy them all back and go under personally.
and what about all those 100s of 1000s of workers who d lose their jobs.... i guess they dont matter to you.0 -
mamba80 wrote:Carbonator wrote:So the Americans are going to have theirs bought back off them, but VW are holding a finger up to Europe and telling them to spin on it lol.
I hope they are forced to buy them all back and go under personally.
and what about all those 100s of 1000s of workers who d lose their jobs.... i guess they dont matter to you.
Wouldnt want to see VW go under, they make some great cars and they d be a massive economic fall out too, jail for the exec's who allowed this fraud but it seems they get a few million marks instead
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mamba80 wrote:Carbonator wrote:So the Americans are going to have theirs bought back off them, but VW are holding a finger up to Europe and telling them to spin on it lol.
I hope they are forced to buy them all back and go under personally.
and what about all those 100s of 1000s of workers who d lose their jobs.... i guess they dont matter to you.
Tough t!tties. Shouldn't have produced cars that broke emission rules.
I have no truck (...) with firms who break the law, big or small.0 -
Yes, too big to fail, we've heard that before haven't we. Let's not forget these emissions laws are there to protect health and life - at the very least the people behind this should be put in jail for a number of years.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0
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Rick Chasey wrote:mamba80 wrote:Carbonator wrote:So the Americans are going to have theirs bought back off them, but VW are holding a finger up to Europe and telling them to spin on it lol.
I hope they are forced to buy them all back and go under personally.
and what about all those 100s of 1000s of workers who d lose their jobs.... i guess they dont matter to you.
Tough t!tties. Shouldn't have produced cars that broke emission rules.
I have no truck (...) with firms who break the law, big or small.
would have expected better from you tbh.... so the ordinary assembly line worker knew the cars he/she were building broke emission laws?? really?
but it ll be the suppliers, dealers in the UK, the sme's and their workers that would suffer, meanwhile the big wigs who actually did know and who authorised this scam, they ll walk into jobs with 'Benz or BMW as if nothing ever happened.
what exactly will be gained by VW going bust? nothing at all.0 -
mamba80 wrote:
would have expected better from you tbh.... so the ordinary assembly line worker knew the cars he/she were building broke emission laws?? really?
but it ll be the suppliers, dealers in the UK, the sme's and their workers that would suffer, meanwhile the big wigs who actually did know and who authorised this scam, they ll walk into jobs with 'Benz or BMW as if nothing ever happened.
what exactly will be gained by VW going bust? nothing at all.
Yeah it's hard but if VW goes bust because they've broken the law, then I can't really see an alternative.
It's a moot point anyway since it won't go bust, but, just like in FS, we need to think about moral hazard.
If a firm employs too many people to be 'too big to go bust', then it needs to be broken up. Problem is, in the automotive industry, economies of scale are king. So the management need to know that if they break the rules and f*ck up, then they'll screw up not just their own jobs but those of a lot of workers.0 -
So many points.
Who says BMW and Mercedes et all are squeaky clean? Why aren't they crowing about it?
This also involves Audi, Skoda, Seat and Mitsubishi. And that is only the ones who have admitted it off the top of my head.
Management do not care about the future of their workers past the company profits.
Management need to get hammered but let's not throw the babies out with the bath water.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
So they can carry on breaking the rules?
If your company makes cars that need to be recalled, they need to be recalled.
If you sold a car on the premise of low emissions and it isn't, it's perfectly reasonable to be forced to buy it back.
If I buy a t-shirt with a label that says 100% cotton and it's only 50% cotton, I'm entitled to get my money back for it. Can't see why it's different for cars.
It's our lungs that get hurt, and we as consumers need protection from lying companies. Simple as.0 -
Moot point or not, it just amazes me that anyone could wish such on a company that employs so many people? people who would stop paying taxes and claim benefits........ so it would be the consumers you say you want to protect who would end up paying.
its laws that need changing so that management get jail for this sort of thing but the capitalist way is that management can do no wrong and that when they do screw up, the state will pick up the pieces, one way or another.0 -
Lookyhere wrote:Moot point or not, it just amazes me that anyone could wish such on a company that employs so many people? people who would stop paying taxes and claim benefits........ so it would be the consumers you say you want to protect who would end up paying.
its laws that need changing so that management get jail for this sort of thing but the capitalist way is that management can do no wrong and that when they do screw up, the state will pick up the pieces, one way or another.
People are still going to need to buy cars, so these workers presumably would end up being employed by BMW, Mercedes, etc.0 -
In fairness, no-one gave (or gives) a sh!t about this thousands of redundancies in financial services post crash, despite that the vast majority of them weren't involved in causing the crash.
The theory went; they signed the pact when they joined the bank, whether they were receptionists or risk managers for commodities or the IT guy working on the settlements back office.0 -
Arguably VW did what it did because it thought it could get away with it.
Letting them off the hook because they employ a lot of people won't help that.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:In fairness, no-one gave (or gives) a sh!t about this thousands of redundancies in financial services post crash, despite that the vast majority of them weren't involved in causing the crash.
The theory went; they signed the pact when they joined the bank, whether they were receptionists or risk managers for commodities or the IT guy working on the settlements back office.
i agree with you, i just dont understand why anyone would wish this on another lot of blameless workers, thats all.0 -
mamba80 wrote:Carbonator wrote:So the Americans are going to have theirs bought back off them, but VW are holding a finger up to Europe and telling them to spin on it lol.
I hope they are forced to buy them all back and go under personally.
and what about all those 100s of 1000s of workers who d lose their jobs.... i guess they dont matter to you.
I would not say they do not matter to me, but they are not my responsibility.
They are the responsibility of VW, which makes their actions all the worse.
I personally think it's better for the sh1t to hit the fan as it may make people in similar situations think twice next time.
Letting companies get away with stuff just encourages others to behave badly IMO.0 -
Carbonator wrote:mamba80 wrote:Carbonator wrote:So the Americans are going to have theirs bought back off them, but VW are holding a finger up to Europe and telling them to spin on it lol.
I hope they are forced to buy them all back and go under personally.
and what about all those 100s of 1000s of workers who d lose their jobs.... i guess they dont matter to you.
I would not say they do not matter to me, but they are not my responsibility.
They are the responsibility of VW, which makes their actions all the worse.
I personally think it's better for the sh1t to hit the fan as it may make people in similar situations think twice next time.
Letting companies get away with stuff just encourages others to behave badly IMO.
yeah well, call for the directors/execs to face trial - VW going under and these people facing little or no sanction wont stop any other company doing the same, so the guy in charge at the time it all broke, has been given a 6m euro bonus.... he got almost 16m the year before........ nice work if you can get it!0 -
Two separate issues which both need sorting.0
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Carbonator wrote:So the Americans are going to have theirs bought back off them, but VW are holding a finger up to Europe and telling them to spin on it lol.
There you go. In the NWO American No.1, Germany No.2 and as you point out everyone else can go spin on it.0
