VW diesel emissions in the US
Comments
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So to a layman the cars are not actually dangerous or unreliable they just perform 'differently' under a certain series of tests. Do the general public really care? They believe the mpg figures given by the manufacture but if they buy any car they don't bother about the emissions so why a lawsuit from Joe Soap who has bought a Passat/A6/Octavia or as I suspect a Ford/GM/Rover. People like Delphi design diesel engines so it's likely the software is used by all or most of the major car companies.M.Rushton0
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Urea is a solid, how does it get into the engine, how much and where it's kept. Someone mentioned above that these cars didn't use urea, someone else mentioned 'adblue'(?) which is on other makes. Can someone explain it please?
It's a liquid in adblue form. You put it in a 10 litre (ish) tank in the boot. It sprays into the exhaust and neutralises Nox particles. Lasts about 10k miles. Then you refill. Most lorries have it now. Have a look in motorway service stations for the big adblue pumps.
Thanks Bender, very interesting.
It is essentially urine.0 -
So to a layman the cars are not actually dangerous or unreliable they just perform 'differently' under a certain series of tests. Do the general public really care? They believe the mpg figures given by the manufacture but if they buy any car they don't bother about the emissions so why a lawsuit from Joe Soap who has bought a Passat/A6/Octavia or as I suspect a Ford/GM/Rover. People like Delphi design diesel engines so it's likely the software is used by all or most of the major car companies.
In the EU the answer is that they are just less good on Nox than they would have been. No one has ever bought a car on the basis of that. C02 levels could change. People do buy cars on the basis of their tax band. It's unlikely to result in a reclassification of already sold cars.
But, if you listen to SLater Gordon solicitors, people definitely went into garages and said "I want a green car." And they didn't get one. So they can sue. Please.My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
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One could argue that no car is green given the manufacturing process and that a hybrid would be the most green of all(?). The idea of suing because my 2.0Tdi puts out more emissions than I thought seems odd esp when some people own more than 1 car.M.Rushton0
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So to a layman the cars are not actually dangerous or unreliable they just perform 'differently' under a certain series of tests. Do the general public really care? They believe the mpg figures given by the manufacture but if they buy any car they don't bother about the emissions so why a lawsuit from Joe Soap who has bought a Passat/A6/Octavia or as I suspect a Ford/GM/Rover. People like Delphi design diesel engines so it's likely the software is used by all or most of the major car companies.
In the EU the answer is that they are just less good on Nox than they would have been. No one has ever bought a car on the basis of that. C02 levels could change. People do buy cars on the basis of their tax band. It's unlikely to result in a reclassification of already sold cars.
But, if you listen to SLater Gordon solicitors, people definitely went into garages and said "I want a green car." And they didn't get one. So they can sue. Please.
I agree and I'm not a fan of the no win no fee way of life bringing itself to the UK but the sad fact is, due to the underhanded tactics of VW they have opened themselves to claims and they will struggle to defend on that basis. If someone insists that in their process of due diligence of selecting a car they picked a VW on emissions as they are a firm believer in doing all they possibly can to protect the environment then they will have a lawful case.
VW are in trouble, if only they just accepted it when it was first brought to light and not done what they did to cover it up for so long, it may of helped them.Living MY dream.0 -
So to a layman the cars are not actually dangerous or unreliable they just perform 'differently' under a certain series of tests. Do the general public really care? They believe the mpg figures given by the manufacture but if they buy any car they don't bother about the emissions so why a lawsuit from Joe Soap who has bought a Passat/A6/Octavia or as I suspect a Ford/GM/Rover. People like Delphi design diesel engines so it's likely the software is used by all or most of the major car companies.
In the EU the answer is that they are just less good on Nox than they would have been. No one has ever bought a car on the basis of that. C02 levels could change. People do buy cars on the basis of their tax band. It's unlikely to result in a reclassification of already sold cars.
But, if you listen to SLater Gordon solicitors, people definitely went into garages and said "I want a green car." And they didn't get one. So they can sue. Please.
I agree and I'm not a fan of the no win no fee way of life bringing itself to the UK but the sad fact is, due to the underhanded tactics of VW they have opened themselves to claims and they will struggle to defend on that basis. If someone insists that in their process of due diligence of selecting a car they picked a VW on emissions as they are a firm believer in doing all they possibly can to protect the environment then they will have a lawful case.
VW are in trouble, if only they just accepted it when it was first brought to light and not done what they did to cover it up for so long, it may of helped them.
It will be interesting seeing how someone claims due dilligence when the information on NOx at least is rarely easy to find. Co2, yes. Nox, no. Not in the UK. No one cared about it. The truth is there will be a handful of people who thought about it. The rest just wanted a diesel Golf.My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
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Im with you, but thats not real life, in UK law you only need to convince the judge that you really were thinking of the environment to win the claim and my point is that due to the cover up by VW they will struggle to argue otherwise. I actually think the vast majority will be fake claims.
As far as Nox is concerned your right, I am constantly bombarded with legal claims and injunctions due to a case I am involved in, the UK legal system has no care for this matter whatsoever but I am hoping that when I am in court next week that will change due to the VW scandal.Living MY dream.0 -
Im with you, but thats not real life, in UK law you only need to convince the judge that you really were thinking of the environment to win the claim and my point is that due to the cover up by VW they will struggle to argue otherwise. I actually think the vast majority will be fake claims.
As far as Nox is concerned your right, I am constantly bombarded with legal claims and injunctions due to a case I am involved in, the UK legal system has no care for this matter whatsoever but I am hoping that when I am in court next week that will change due to the VW scandal.
The majority will be settled because there are no individuals out there who would take the stand and tell a Judge what they did to research Nox. Because they'd be torn apart on cross examination. But that's bad PR for VW even if it's legally correct.My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
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excellent quote from over on el reg...I don't know why everyone is acting so surprised that a company founded by the Nazis has been gassing innocent peoplemy bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0
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excellent quote from over on el reg...I don't know why everyone is acting so surprised that a company founded by the Nazis has been gassing innocent people
ooohhh, thats a bit close to the cloth 8)
Living MY dream.0 -
ooohhh, thats a bit close to the cloth 8)
just felt it was important to show that godwin's law and funny aren't mutually exclusive my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
I think the environmental impact of producing a hybrid is higher, though I don't know by how much. There's a lot of smoke and mirrors. Hydrogen burning cars emit nothing other than water, perfect. Where does the hydrogen come from? Fossil fuels is the cheapest way so not as good as it appears.One could argue that no car is green given the manufacturing process and that a hybrid would be the most green of all(?). The idea of suing because my 2.0Tdi puts out more emissions than I thought seems odd esp when some people own more than 1 car.
If you're not doing monster mileage is it not still better environmentally to run an old car than build a new one? Looking at lifetime cost including build would bring up a very different picture I suspect.0 -
So to a layman the cars are not actually dangerous or unreliable they just perform 'differently' under a certain series of tests. Do the general public really care? They believe the mpg figures given by the manufacture but if they buy any car they don't bother about the emissions so why a lawsuit from Joe Soap who has bought a Passat/A6/Octavia or as I suspect a Ford/GM/Rover. People like Delphi design diesel engines so it's likely the software is used by all or most of the major car companies.
In the EU the answer is that they are just less good on Nox than they would have been. No one has ever bought a car on the basis of that. C02 levels could change. People do buy cars on the basis of their tax band. It's unlikely to result in a reclassification of already sold cars.
But, if you listen to SLater Gordon solicitors, people definitely went into garages and said "I want a green car." And they didn't get one. So they can sue. Please.
I agree and I'm not a fan of the no win no fee way of life bringing itself to the UK but the sad fact is, due to the underhanded tactics of VW they have opened themselves to claims and they will struggle to defend on that basis. If someone insists that in their process of due diligence of selecting a car they picked a VW on emissions as they are a firm believer in doing all they possibly can to protect the environment then they will have a lawful case.
VW are in trouble, if only they just accepted it when it was first brought to light and not done what they did to cover it up for so long, it may of helped them.
I picked my Golf because of the low emissions. Although I'd like to say that this is solely because I feel a responsibility to the environment (which I do to a degree), the government did my thinking for me in respect of their CO2 banding with regard to company car tax. My Golf is £0 VED and therefore low on taxation but, assuming CO2 is proportionally linked to NOx emissions, I would like to know whether I will be pursued by the Inland Revenue retrospectively for unpaid tax. My guess is that I will be and that it will be up to me to get the money back from VW. Anyone have any ideas?Wilier Izoard XP0 -
of course they won't
it's a non-issue, the government etc. will strike various dramatic poses whilst spouting brave words and essentially do nothing
vw will go through a recall, which many, but not all, owners will follow up on
resale value of affected vehicles will suffer
edit: oh, and big law firms and business consultants will make a lot of money at everyone else's expensemy bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
of course they won't
it's a non-issue, the government etc. will strike various dramatic poses whilst spouting brave words and essentially do nothing
vw will go through a recall, which many, but not all, owners will follow up on
resale value of affected vehicles will suffer
edit: oh, and big law firms and business consultants will make a lot of money at everyone else's expense
ThanksWilier Izoard XP0 -
It's flabbergasting.
That a firm of this size and this reputation (perks & prostitution scandal never really got traction, nor did the suppliers bribes....) can just come out and admit to full blown fraud and cheating of regs tests....
And it's not paper fraud either - they're polluting the environment and putting more toxins in the air than they should be - that's horrendous.
It's also a fairly damning case example for any big firm who claims they can be trusted with managing their own negative externalities.
Patently it's not exclusive to FS or pharma.0 -
It's flabbergasting.
That a firm of this size and this reputation (perks & prostitution scandal never really got traction, nor did the suppliers bribes....) can just come out and admit to full blown fraud and cheating of regs tests....
And it's not paper fraud either - they're polluting the environment and putting more toxins in the air than they should be - that's horrendous.
It's also a fairly damning case example for any big firm who claims they can be trusted with managing their own negative externalities.
Patently it's not exclusive to FS or pharma.
Sort of. Arguably, in the EU, they're putting the same amount of toxins into the air as they would have been permitted under Euro 4 or 5. That's the weird part, rolling out something worldwide to meet impossible targets in a few countries. Had they done the proper test in the EU, for example, they'd have sold the same amount of cars.My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
https://twitter.com/roubaixcc
Facebook? No. Just say no.0 -
It's flabbergasting.
That a firm of this size and this reputation (perks & prostitution scandal never really got traction, nor did the suppliers bribes....) can just come out and admit to full blown fraud and cheating of regs tests....
And it's not paper fraud either - they're polluting the environment and putting more toxins in the air than they should be - that's horrendous.
It's also a fairly damning case example for any big firm who claims they can be trusted with managing their own negative externalities.
Patently it's not exclusive to FS or pharma.
Sort of. Arguably, in the EU, they're putting the same amount of toxins into the air as they would have been permitted under Euro 4 or 5. That's the weird part, rolling out something worldwide to meet impossible targets in a few countries. Had they done the proper test in the EU, for example, they'd have sold the same amount of cars.
To be fair, they haven't admitted anything, they were found out and then tried to use an injunction to cover it up.
There is a fairly substantial court case tomorrow on a similar matter, hopefully that goes well and the courts agree that human safety outweighs cash money.Living MY dream.0 -
Does anyone know whether these falsified emissions are to do with the diesels with that rely on the bottles of pish as an additive? If so would it be fair to assume that other car marques that use a similar system ie Peugeot are also likely to be investigated?
Only ask as my jalopy could be up to be replaced with a Peugeot 308 (don't ask). I am trying to push for a Toyota Prius, but the fleet manager made the extraordinary claim that Hybrids were unproven technology. Not unusual for my company who only issued mobile phones last year, because they didn't when the right time to buy them was!!!!!Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.0 -
Does anyone know whether these falsified emissions are to do with the diesels with that rely on the bottles of pish as an additive? If so would it be fair to assume that other car marques that use a similar system ie Peugeot are also likely to be investigated?
Only ask as my jalopy could be up to be replaced with a Peugeot 308 (don't ask). I am trying to push for a Toyota Prius, but the fleet manager made the extraordinary claim that Hybrids were unproven technology. Not unusual for my company who only issued mobile phones last year, because they didn't when the right time to buy them was!!!!!
It effects additive vehicles using Urea as well as normal DPF vehicles.
It is a part of the MED17.5 ECU with internal memory on the microprocessor which enables map switching and I would guess more will come out soon.
Hybrids are not the shiny "awesome" planet saving vehicles people would like to think they are.
Get a small engined petrol car if you want the best chance of economy/planet saving.
Something like the VW Up is a superb example. (seriously)Living MY dream.0 -
Expect there are some very nervous engineers.
Newsnight just trailed an interview with a VW board member who is explicitly saying whoever made the decision and helped the implementation has committed a criminal offence....0 -
Expect there are some very nervous engineers.
Newsnight just trailed an interview with a VW board member who is explicitly saying whoever made the decision and helped the implementation has committed a criminal offence....
To increase emissions knowingly past that of approval carries an imprisonable term. It also carries a huge fine, €10,000Living MY dream.0 -
Does anyone know whether these falsified emissions are to do with the diesels with that rely on the bottles of pish as an additive? If so would it be fair to assume that other car marques that use a similar system ie Peugeot are also likely to be investigated?
Only ask as my jalopy could be up to be replaced with a Peugeot 308 (don't ask). I am trying to push for a Toyota Prius, but the fleet manager made the extraordinary claim that Hybrids were unproven technology. Not unusual for my company who only issued mobile phones last year, because they didn't when the right time to buy them was!!!!!
It effects additive vehicles using Urea as well as normal DPF vehicles.
It is a part of the MED17.5 ECU with internal memory on the microprocessor which enables map switching and I would guess more will come out soon.
Hybrids are not the shiny "awesome" planet saving vehicles people would like to think they are.
Get a small engined petrol car if you want the best chance of economy/planet saving.
Something like the VW Up is a superb example. (seriously)
I don't fancy doing 25k miles a year in a VW Up!.
Any recommendation for a mid to large size car that can do that annual mileage and with a budget of a max £24/5kAlways be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.0 -
The reality of it is, the VW is still amongst the best choice. They build awesome cars with the best technology and safety functions. My only caution right now would be second hand values but as a lease car I would still go VW if that were an option.Living MY dream.0
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i ve an 308 bluehdi and its a cracking car, the most economical car i ve ever had, unfortunately i ve only got it until the new Octavia "greenline" (or is that "Smogline"?) is delivered - the Peugeot is the only car i would buy if i was ever in the position to get a new/nearly new car - i do about 30k per year.
what i dont understand is IF manufacturers can get emissions down without adblue, why are some inc VW fitting adblue? it seems at first glance, that VW and others cheated, whilst the ones that didnt went down the adblue route.0 -
i ve an 308 bluehdi and its a cracking car, the most economical car i ve ever had, unfortunately i ve only got it until the new Octavia "greenline" (or is that "Smogline"?) is delivered - the Peugeot is the only car i would buy if i was ever in the position to get a new/nearly new car - i do about 30k per year.
what i dont understand is IF manufacturers can get emissions down without adblue, why are some inc VW fitting adblue? it seems at first glance, that VW and others cheated, whilst the ones that didnt went down the adblue route.
It really isn't as simple as that. But it is as simple as £€$Living MY dream.0 -
i ve an 308 bluehdi and its a cracking car, the most economical car i ve ever had, unfortunately i ve only got it until the new Octavia "greenline" (or is that "Smogline"?) is delivered - the Peugeot is the only car i would buy if i was ever in the position to get a new/nearly new car - i do about 30k per year.
what i dont understand is IF manufacturers can get emissions down without adblue, why are some inc VW fitting adblue? it seems at first glance, that VW and others cheated, whilst the ones that didnt went down the adblue route.
The 308 is that good? I've sat in one at showroom and impressed by cockpit/interior. However I guess my opinion is of French cars is very tainted, having driven a Laguna Tourer for last 3 years. Always something wrong with it.
I like the look of the Octavia and they must benefit from being part of VW. But the interiors are not up to much. Unless they have revamped recently. Same as Audis, look great on exterior, but that drab grey dash is awful.Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.0 -
I loved my several laguna's, never had issues with them but they were cheap and cheerful second hand motors.
There are some great BMW deals and you can pick up the audi a5 1.8t very cheaply which is a superb car to cover miles comfortably.Living MY dream.0 -
I loved my several laguna's, never had issues with them but they were cheap and cheerful second hand motors.
There are some great BMW deals and you can pick up the audi a5 1.8t very cheaply which is a superb car to cover miles comfortably.
Its gonna be a company car and my firm will not contemplate BMWs or Audis. They think it gives the wrong impression! Rep parking up in a Beemer and all that. I think there are more BMW/Audi rep cars than ever on the road. Also my firm pay cash for their cars!!!! Yes you read that correctly. They pay cash for everything. Do not have anything on credit at all. Madness. I was talking to a Ford salesrep who told me that Wayne Rooney finances his cars. This is someone on £300k a week and has the common sense to realise about vehicle depreciation and keeping money in the bank.Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.0 -
i ve an 308 bluehdi and its a cracking car, the most economical car i ve ever had, unfortunately i ve only got it until the new Octavia "greenline" (or is that "Smogline"?) is delivered - the Peugeot is the only car i would buy if i was ever in the position to get a new/nearly new car - i do about 30k per year.
The 308 is that good? I've sat in one at showroom and impressed by cockpit/interior. However I guess my opinion is of French cars is very tainted, having driven a Laguna Tourer for last 3 years. Always something wrong with it.
I like the look of the Octavia and they must benefit from being part of VW. But the interiors are not up to much. Unless they have revamped recently. Same as Audis, look great on exterior, but that drab grey dash is awful.
Yep, it is! i ve put 15k on it and aside from the adblue top up - lasts about 12k - 9.99 from a Peugeot dealer it has been faultless, a very easy car to drive, the one i ve got is the 1.6 120bhp estate version.
i ve done a trip to Dolomites and another to S of F, the car was effortless and didnt wear me out, unlike a lot of other cars i ve had on the similar drives.
I though oh no! when it turned up, having had a french car before but they ve upped their game with the most recent cars.
i m not looking fwd to the Octavia at all, the test one i drove was rubbish.0
