Alberto Contador is the Greatest

Richmond Racer 2

TakeTheHighRoad wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

TakeTheHighRoad wrote:

He counter attacked on the Mortirolo but the Stage 16 one he attacked to p*ss Astana off, mainly for the sheer hell of it.

2009 Tour to Grand Bornand he attacked in Yellow as well. IIRC the Tourmalet in 2010 too

He sat in Schleck's wheel the whole way up the Tourmalet. Putting in an unsuccessful dig near the top isn't an attack

I like how you ignored the two solid examples and focus on the one I devoted a whole 5 words and an acronym to a hazy memory

Boom!

RichN95.

greasedscotsman wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

TakeTheHighRoad wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

TakeTheHighRoad wrote:

He counter attacked on the Mortirolo but the Stage 16 one he attacked to p*ss Astana off, mainly for the sheer hell of it.

2009 Tour to Grand Bornand he attacked in Yellow as well. IIRC the Tourmalet in 2010 too

He sat in Schleck's wheel the whole way up the Tourmalet. Putting in an unsuccessful dig near the top isn't an attack

I like how you ignored the two solid examples and focus on the one I devoted a whole 5 words and an acronym to a hazy memory

I can't remember the details of Grand Bornard. Perhaps you're right. The other one was mostly his team driving a gap in the peloton to distance his rivals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k-8XNcJsDk

Looks like Andy Schleck got things going to me.

To be fair Contador does do a little attack at 16.7km to go before sitting up 200m later. Otherwise it's a hour of following the Schlecks around

wombly_knees

TheBigBean wrote:

He didn't hang around in the Giro in 2011 as well. On the particularly brutal stage he attacked early and nearly lost his lead by the end.

The stage which Nieve won that year was rather good. Contador attacked there. Then was the stage which Tiralongo won too. If course, he had already built a substantial lead by this time, iirc.

Vino'sGhost

why cant i comment on this thread?

Vino'sGhost

Vino'sGhost wrote:

why cant i comment on this thread?

every time i say positive things about contador i get booted lololol

pinno

We discussed the 'corporate sanitisation' of Pro racing in BB. Yes we did. The small consensus amongst the small number of protagonists was that the explosive, off the cuff spontaneous attacks by riders was probably on the decline. If AC hadn't attacked in the manner in which he did (bar Nibali and one or two others going off the front and going a bit red in the face), the Vuelta would have been a bit processional.
So, should we ban power meters, HR monitors and race radio to put some unpredictability and spontaneity back in racing? ...and is the route of the Vuelta being set to be particularly brutal to insert some unpredictability when actually the route cause of the processional is too much control being exercised by strong teams assisted by technology?

fat daddy

Pinno wrote:

So, should we ban power meters, HR monitors and race radio to put some unpredictability and spontaneity back in racing?

Definately. When Bertie attacks off the front, all the teams look down at their PMs and think .. "nah, he cant sustain that, we will reel him in later". without the PM, there is going to have to a be a LOT more going with him, just in case ... a lot more riders going too far into the red and blowing up

RichN95.

fat daddy wrote:

Pinno wrote:

So, should we ban power meters, HR monitors and race radio to put some unpredictability and spontaneity back in racing?

definitely. When Bertie attacks off the front, all the teams look down at their PMs and think .. "nah, he cant sustain that, we will reel him in later". without the PM, there is going to have to a be a LOT more going with him, just in case ... a lot more riders going too far into the red and blowing up

Is it the power meter than tells them that or years of failed Contador attacks?

The simple fact is, if you want to get up a mountain in the shortest time, you ride it like a time trial.

bobmcstuff

Pinno wrote:

We discussed the 'corporate sanitisation' of Pro racing in BB. Yes we did. The small consensus amongst the small number of protagonists was that the explosive, off the cuff spontaneous attacks by riders was probably on the decline. If AC hadn't attacked in the manner in which he did (bar Nibali and one or two others going off the front and going a bit red in the face), the Vuelta would have been a bit processional.
So, should we ban power meters, HR monitors and race radio to put some unpredictability and spontaneity back in racing? ...and is the route of the Vuelta being set to be particularly brutal to insert some unpredictability when actually the route cause of the processional is too much control being exercised by strong teams assisted by technology?

Give them all motors in their bikes - but with only enough battery to make one decent attack (which they would then have to try and hold) per week of the GT or something. A bit like KERS in F1...

rick_chasey

RichN95 wrote:

fat daddy wrote:

Pinno wrote:

So, should we ban power meters, HR monitors and race radio to put some unpredictability and spontaneity back in racing?

definitely. When Bertie attacks off the front, all the teams look down at their PMs and think .. "nah, he cant sustain that, we will reel him in later". without the PM, there is going to have to a be a LOT more going with him, just in case ... a lot more riders going too far into the red and blowing up

Is it the power meter than tells them that or years of failed Contador attacks?

The simple fact is, if you want to get up a mountain in the shortest time, you ride it like a time trial.

Arguabl the speeds they ride up on big Tour climbs like Alpe d'Huez are high enough that drafting counts for a fair bit.

Less so on the super steep stuff; you can see that in how Froome rides up the steep stuff in the Vuelta vs the Tour.

RichN95.

Rick Chasey wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

fat daddy wrote:

Pinno wrote:

So, should we ban power meters, HR monitors and race radio to put some unpredictability and spontaneity back in racing?

definitely. When Bertie attacks off the front, all the teams look down at their PMs and think .. "nah, he cant sustain that, we will reel him in later". without the PM, there is going to have to a be a LOT more going with him, just in case ... a lot more riders going too far into the red and blowing up

Is it the power meter than tells them that or years of failed Contador attacks?

The simple fact is, if you want to get up a mountain in the shortest time, you ride it like a time trial.

Arguabl the speeds they ride up on big Tour climbs like Alpe d'Huez are high enough that drafting counts for a fair bit.

Which is why it is better to stick to the plan with teammates rather than chasing him. If a rider is alone then maybe it makes sense to follow. But it doesn't make sense to attack a rider with teammates unless that rider is weak.

rick_chasey

RichN95 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

fat daddy wrote:

Pinno wrote:

So, should we ban power meters, HR monitors and race radio to put some unpredictability and spontaneity back in racing?

definitely. When Bertie attacks off the front, all the teams look down at their PMs and think .. "nah, he cant sustain that, we will reel him in later". without the PM, there is going to have to a be a LOT more going with him, just in case ... a lot more riders going too far into the red and blowing up

Is it the power meter than tells them that or years of failed Contador attacks?

The simple fact is, if you want to get up a mountain in the shortest time, you ride it like a time trial.

Arguabl the speeds they ride up on big Tour climbs like Alpe d'Huez are high enough that drafting counts for a fair bit.

Which is why it is better to stick to the plan with teammates rather than chasing him. If a rider is alone then maybe it makes sense to follow. But it doesn't make sense to attack a rider with teammates unless that rider is weak.

Aye, no-one's disagreeing there.

That's why we want smaller teams, no?

So we get to man v man sooner.

Then the tactics are more fun.

RichN95.

Yeah. But in the meantime it's why teams need to break up Sky and not let them do as they please. Ag2R did it on one stage of the Tour and we got a great stage.

bobmcstuff

Rick Chasey wrote:

Arguabl the speeds they ride up on big Tour climbs like Alpe d'Huez are high enough that drafting counts for a fair bit.

Not sure there's any arguably about it, Froome's time up the Alpe in 2013 was 40:54 which is 20.2km/h, which with his stats means air resistance is still probably 10% of the force he has to overcome (https://www.gribble.org/cycling/power_v_speed.html) - much much less than on the flat (where air resistance is 80%+) but still very tangible even if drafting can only reduce it by 2 or 3%.

If it was as much as 3% (bearing in mind the Alpe has some less severe gradients in parts which would make drafting much more effective in those bits) then that's over a minute saving over the climb - big numbers in GC terms.

RichN95.

bobmcstuff wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Arguabl the speeds they ride up on big Tour climbs like Alpe d'Huez are high enough that drafting counts for a fair bit.

Not sure there's any arguably about it, Froome's time up the Alpe in 2013 was 40:54 which is 20.2km/h, which with his stats means air resistance is still probably 10% of the force he has to overcome (https://www.gribble.org/cycling/power_v_speed.html) - much much less than on the flat (where air resistance is 80%+) but still very tangible even if drafting can only reduce it by 2 or 3%.

If it was as much as 3% (bearing in mind the Alpe has some less severe gradients in parts which would make drafting much more effective in those bits) then that's over a minute saving over the climb - big numbers in GC terms.

It's supposedly around 30 watts difference to go the same speed with or without drafting climbing at around 20km/h

m.r.m.

The genie cannot be put back in the bottle (regarding power meters).

bobmcstuff

RichN95 wrote:

bobmcstuff wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Arguabl the speeds they ride up on big Tour climbs like Alpe d'Huez are high enough that drafting counts for a fair bit.

Not sure there's any arguably about it, Froome's time up the Alpe in 2013 was 40:54 which is 20.2km/h, which with his stats means air resistance is still probably 10% of the force he has to overcome (https://www.gribble.org/cycling/power_v_speed.html) - much much less than on the flat (where air resistance is 80%+) but still very tangible even if drafting can only reduce it by 2 or 3%.

If it was as much as 3% (bearing in mind the Alpe has some less severe gradients in parts which would make drafting much more effective in those bits) then that's over a minute saving over the climb - big numbers in GC terms.

It's supposedly around 30 watts difference to go the same speed with or without drafting climbing at around 20km/h

That would be about around a 6% or 6.5% reduction if Froome was riding at 6 to 6.5 W/kg on the climb (taking into account 68kg race weight and a 7.5kg bike). Bit more than I might have guessed but not implausible.

In either case it's more than enough to make a material difference on a climb like the Alpe.

pinno

M.R.M. wrote:

The genie cannot be put back in the bottle (regarding power meters).

Sure but for training not racing.