Are sky clean or not?
Comments
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How is it likely that Froome doped?
I suppose he's saying that simply because other riders who've been good before have turned out to be dopers.
You have to be open to the possibility that he's doping (as with pretty much all major sportsmen and women IMO) but I don't see how you could say it's likely, given there's not a sniff of actual evidence.0 -
How can we trust anything Julien Pinot says when he states that he is sure that motors have been used in the Peloton in the past? This belief is so mental that no sane person cold possibly hold it. Apparently![url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19668113#p19668113]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:Julien Pinot - Thibaut's brother who coaches him and other FDJ riders - on the Froome topic
http://www.lejdd.fr/Sport/Cyclisme/Julien-Pinot-C-est-alle-trop-loin-avec-Chistopher-Froome-743904?utm_content=buffer0edee&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
'It went too far with Christopher Froome' (in reference to how he was treated and accused of doping)
Any chance we can sweep this, and similar calm and reasoned analysis, under the carpet for a bit longer - perhaps until there is another great frothing at the collective gaping mouth of the performance cynics, when it will pass unnoticed?
Ta.0 -
My point exactly. Jerry is posting ill thought out bollox.
It's possible that Froome is doping, but it's far from likely0 -
Froomy is too nice and polite, he needs to start dropping the C word like Wiggo did.
This is all a side show driven by jealousy. The French don't care really about the dopage, they love that toad virenque, they just are angry that they haven't won their own race for decades.0 -
As for doping, seems Valverde had the most fan based tweets of the Tour. Valverde being a proven doper so there is no logic in Froome being made out to be the bad guy. I guess it's likely Froome doped but there's no evidence yet.
Also on that note a power meter can be adjusted down so it records less watts so any power data published will be useless.
:-)
1. There's no evidence yet, but he's likely doping? How can you ever be proved wrong with a stance like that?
2. As to power meters. No they can't. If they can, please tell me what brand and how."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
Froomy is too nice and polite, he needs to start dropping the C word like Wiggo did.
This is all a side show driven by jealousy. The French don't care really about the dopage, they love that toad virenque, they just are angry that they haven't won their own race for decades.
I'm starting to come to the same conclusion, I'm afraid. Virenque is still advertising Festina watches, 'a passion for sport', FFSIt's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.0 -
Froomy is too nice and polite, he needs to start dropping the C word like Wiggo did.
This is all a side show driven by jealousy. The French don't care really about the dopage, they love that toad virenque, they just are angry that they haven't won their own race for decades.
You do realise 'the French' aren't a homogeneous group, yes?Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy0 -
Does anyone know what Contador's 2009 Alpe figure was using Vayer's 'scientific' method ?
Unless I am reading this incorrectly, that diagram believes three watts is enough to change a performance from 'normal' to 'suspicious'.0 -
You do realise 'the French' aren't a homogeneous group, yes?
Meh0 -
Unless I am reading this incorrectly, that diagram believes three watts is enough to change a performance from 'normal' to 'suspicious'.
You have to draw the line somewhere unless you express the performance on a continuous scale of likelihood of doping.
e.g. if the threshold for believability if 400w (made up number) then moving from 399w to 400w would change you from OK to suspicious whereas a much bigger change from 389w to 399w would simply maintain you at suspicious.
Alternatively, if you think 400w represents a 95% chance of doping (made up again) then 399w watts would represent a just under 95% chance i.e. essentially the same.0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19668731#p19668731]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:2. As to power meters. No they can't. If they can, please tell me what brand and how.
Presumably the file could be doctored?
A quick Google on "Digital EPO" tells you how to doctor your Strava files and how to spot doctoring (and presumably how to fine-tune doctored files to stop them being spotted).
Don't know if the same applies to power meter files though.0 -
410 is the lower limit of suspicious IIRCDoes anyone know what Contador's 2009 Alpe figure was using Vayer's 'scientific' method ?
Unless I am reading this incorrectly, that diagram believes three watts is enough to change a performance from 'normal' to 'suspicious'.0 -
^^^Except it's total b*llocks because those power figures are made up anyway.0
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You do realise 'the French' aren't a homogeneous group, yes?
Meh
About as lazy a response as I could expect I suppose.Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy0 -
About as lazy a response as I could expect I suppose.
gallic shrug.0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19668612#p19668612]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:An interesting piece.
http://cyclistsinternational.com/reports-of-froome-doping-wrong-in-so-many-ways/
Sallet. A doctor of philosophy. Hilarious.
Philosophy is badly spelled physiology....a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0 -
The weight of what I'd consume between getting up and going for a ride is about 2kgs (I weighed it). Naturally, there'd be some, er, weight loss... But I'd expect a Tour rider to get through half as much again (especially as they might not start a stage until midday).
On that basis, Froome's weight could be anything between 67-70kg at any given point during a stage - that's a variable of 6.1 to 5.8W/kg @ 410watts. He might be even more than 70kg if he just downed a bidon...0 -
Physiology degrees seem to be handed out like confetti in France. Presumably you send your 100 euros off and get the certificate back in the post.
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The weight of what I'd consume between getting up and going for a ride is about 2kgs (I weighed it). Naturally, there'd be some, er, weight loss... But I'd expect a Tour rider to get through half as much again (especially as they might not start a stage until midday).
On that basis, Froome's weight could be anything between 67-70kg at any given point during a stage - that's a variable of 6.1 to 5.8W/kg @ 410watts. He might be even more than 70kg if he just downed a bidon...
Said as much 40 pages back to deaf ears though I'm afraid. W/kg is no use at all in assessing doping.0 -
The weight of what I'd consume between getting up and going for a ride is about 2kgs (I weighed it). Naturally, there'd be some, er, weight loss... But I'd expect a Tour rider to get through half as much again (especially as they might not start a stage until midday).
On that basis, Froome's weight could be anything between 67-70kg at any given point during a stage - that's a variable of 6.1 to 5.8W/kg @ 410watts. He might be even more than 70kg if he just downed a bidon...
Said as much 40 pages back to deaf ears though I'm afraid. W/kg is no use at all in assessing doping.
Be fair, It could be useful if it were accurate. the trouble is that unless all teams release all data it is not accurate. Looking at GENUINE variances in time normalised to W/Kg or variances in W/Kg of the top tier riders could give an idea if someone is an outlier. With data from all riders you could look for trends and outliers.
However I agree that trying to guess it based on climbs done 10 years ago and then compare it to guesses on climbs done today is worthless (which it seems it what a lot of people do)We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
My point exactly. Jerry is posting ill thought out bollox.
It's possible that Froome is doping, but it's far from likely
How the hell do you know what Froome is doing??
Doping has been with cycling for a 125 years. Google Choppy Warburton if you think I'm talking bollox. I've seen so many riders through the decades get busted and we seemed to have forgotten about Tommy Simpson who died through doping and scared a generation of potential UK pros from stepping over to the continent to ride. Time is a healer as they say.
Maybe try many of the books where an ex pro confesses all as some Holiday reading? There's too many to choose from.
The French anti Doping Authority also proved that all the dope tests can be gotten around; prior to the Tour. Also the top Teams have all the best Quacks working for them and are ahead of the game of Cookson et al (if he's not been bought like our David Walsh- The Times Journalist) (The Times being owned by Murdock who also owns Team Sky. Yay!
Gianni Savio's rider has just got busted for a drug not yet out of it's final human trials so how the hell did his rider get his hands on a new EPO promoting drug? The 2nd Division Team Androni Giocattoli-Sidermec has been sidelined.
I also googled about Power Meters and some can be calibrated to adjust the figures. I assume it's a bit like a Bathroom Scales where you can re zero the scales. I think I read this stuff in Cycling news or somewhere. Also the oval chainrings can alter power readings too.
I just cringe when people think that doping isn't still here in a big way. I argued for years in around 2005 about LA being a very suspicious rider and I got my butt kicked for saying that too. :?
Here's a post from 2007 I started; same flat earth lot replied then too. Duh!
viewtopic.php?f=40021&t=12580624&hilit=armstrong
PS- I think I've re read some of my blurbs and I must have been writing late at night or something. “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving”- Albert Einstein
"You can't ride the Tour de France on mineral water."
-Jacques Anquetil0 -
Will someone please introduce jerry to Joel?jerry3571 wrote:I just cringe when people think that doping isn't still here in a big way
Go on then..who's Joel?
Sorry to not be an armchair cyclist as I am out on the road a fair bit.
Also a lot of people miss the main point of professional cyclist existing is to be first over the finishing line with the sponsor's logo showing which is why at the final they sit up and put their arms in the air and the zip done up. They are professional riders who are paid to get their sponsors name in the newspapers to shift stock. Cycling is just a moving advertising hoarding. They are paid to win, not to lose and not to be the Nelson Mandella of the sporting world.
They don't get paid to be the most morally clean and virtuous. A last thing; bad things happen in Religion, Business, Politics and all walks of life so thinking a bunch of bike riders are suppose to be clean and pure is simply unrealistic. The people who watch bike racing just need take off the rose coloured spectacles and see life how it is.
This is like telling Kids about Father Xmas. :?“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving”- Albert Einstein
"You can't ride the Tour de France on mineral water."
-Jacques Anquetil0 -
Will someone please introduce jerry to Joel?jerry3571 wrote:I just cringe when people think that doping isn't still here in a big way
Go on then..who's Joel?
Sorry to not be an armchair cyclist as I am out on the road a fair bit.
Perhaps you should stay in more: all that fresh air has turned you into Eeyore.0 -
It's all a bit pointless this isn't it.
I mean even the people who think it could be clean are generally sceptical enough to think there is a chance it's not. Taking into account human nature, cycling's past and the pressure to win then that seems a reasonable position to take while still enjoying the sport.
People who think it's as bad as it always was seem to think the above camp are naive. For some reason this seems to upset them and they feel the need to point out their gullibility. The clean camp may well be naive but at least they are enjoying the cycling.0 -
Will someone please introduce jerry to Joel?jerry3571 wrote:I just cringe when people think that doping isn't still here in a big way
Go on then..who's Joel?
Sorry to not be an armchair cyclist as I am out on the road a fair bit.
Also a lot of people miss the main point of professional cyclist existing is to be first over the finishing line with the sponsor's logo showing which is why at the final they sit up and put their arms in the air and the zip done up. They are professional riders who are paid to get their sponsors name in the newspapers to shift stock. Cycling is just a moving advertising hoarding. They are paid to win, not to lose and not to be the Nelson Mandella of the sporting world.
They don't get paid to be the most morally clean and virtuous. A last thing; bad things happen in Religion, Business, Politics and all walks of life so thinking a bunch of bike riders are suppose to be clean and pure is simply unrealistic. The people who watch bike racing just need take off the rose coloured spectacles and see life how it is.
This is like telling Kids about Father Xmas. :?
Way to patronise :roll:
Most of us on here are sensible enough to accept that there's a possibility Froome is doping - however at the moment there is actually no evidence. I notice in your linked thread you mention the Andreus, Hamilton, Landis etc etc., where are these people for Sky/Froome? With Armstrong there was a lot of circumstantial evidence and he was taking everyone to court, where's Sky's equivalent? It's just not the same. At the moment there has not even been a rumour from someone who used to be in the team about drug use.
If we start hearing different from ex-Sky soigneurs and Porte gets busted at BMC or something then maybe things will change, but at the moment there is absolutely no evidence that Froome has doped.0 -
Here's a post from 2007 I started; same flat earth lot replied then too. Duh!
viewtopic.php?f=40021&t=12580624&hilit=armstrong
I think you were more ignored than replied to.BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
Instagramme0 -
Blimey this is still going :shock:0
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Blimey this is still going :shock:
Don't know why you're surprised - the Lance thread still comes back up frequently and he admitted it years ago!0 -
My point exactly. Jerry is posting ill thought out bollox.
It's possible that Froome is doping, but it's far from likely
I argued for years in around 2005 about LA being a very suspicious rider
Wow you obvious powers of being able pick out the dopers are clear from this! Arguing that Armstrong cheated in 2005 that must've taken something special. I don't think anyone had any idea until he confessed? Clearly you know your onions!Mañana0
