Mechanical Doping update

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  • joelsimjoelsim Posts: 7,552
    isn't this all easily fixed by having cyclists do weigh ins on bikes before race? It's hardly rocket science and they couldn't hide nearly 2 kilos extra

    Where has this mythical figure of 2Kg come from?
    My men 2019: Superman Lopez, Gaviria, Henao, Teuns, Tejay, Gaudu, Cosnefroy, Evenepoel, Pidcock.
  • cruffcruff Posts: 1,359
    In addition, pro teams regularly add ballast to bikes to get them to the uci legal weight limit.
    Fat chopper. Some racing. Some testing. Some crashing.
    Specialising in Git Daaahns and Cafs. Transplanted Laaandoner.
  • The UCI need to release pictures of Van den Driessche's actual bike with photos of the motor, gears, battery and switches.

    The technology obviously exists, but surely an extra 1-2kg's would negate an extra 50-100W in power?
  • MacaloonMacaloon Posts: 5,545
    joelsim wrote:
    isn't this all easily fixed by having cyclists do weigh ins on bikes before race? It's hardly rocket science and they couldn't hide nearly 2 kilos extra

    Where has this mythical figure of 2Kg come from?

    Froome's 2007 lab tests 8)
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 7,712
    joelsim wrote:
    isn't this all easily fixed by having cyclists do weigh ins on bikes before race? It's hardly rocket science and they couldn't hide nearly 2 kilos extra

    Where has this mythical figure of 2Kg come from?

    That's the quoted weights for the Vivax/Gruber type units.

    I imagine they will be using something like this, although maybe with smaller batteries (the batteries on those things are pretty big and fitted in a converted bottle/saddle bag which would be pretty obvious on a pro bike). It doesn't sound like this woman or her team are particularly flush with cash or anything so it doesn't seem likely that whatever she may have used will be wildly different from a Vivax. Although it will be interesting to see what the results of the investigation are; if she used something which is a clear step forward from that kind of system it will be interesting for sure. I find it very hard to believe it will be anything like the mythical Hungarian super motor discussed earlier in the thread though...
  • inseineinseine Posts: 5,655
    The UCI need to release pictures of Van den Driessche's actual bike with photos of the motor, gears, battery and switches.

    The technology obviously exists, but surely an extra 1-2kg's would negate an extra 50-100W in power?

    No. 7 watts per kilo is often talked about as an impossible (or improbable) level so using your figures you're at at least 50 watts per kilo so I'd say well worth it! Not all the guys are riding bikes at the 6.8 minimum level in the Tour so a kilo isn't a big deal.
  • bompingtonbompington Posts: 6,796
    inseine wrote:
    The UCI need to release pictures of Van den Driessche's actual bike with photos of the motor, gears, battery and switches.

    The technology obviously exists, but surely an extra 1-2kg's would negate an extra 50-100W in power?

    No. 7 watts per kilo is often talked about as an impossible (or improbable) level so using your figures you're at at least 50 watts per kilo so I'd say well worth it! Not all the guys are riding bikes at the 6.8 minimum level in the Tour so a kilo isn't a big deal.
    This is some of the best maths I have ever seen!

    Errr, not.

    Let's suppose we have a 63kg rider on a 7kg bike putting out 6W/kg.

    So total power output is 70X6 = 420W

    Now add the 2kg / 100W motor and batteries: that's a total weight of 72kg, with a total power output of 520W

    520/72 ≈ 7.2W/kg.

    Now that is obviously a significant increase, certainly more than the consensus would say they could get from EPO, but the question is... for how long, and what penalty would the extra weight cause when it wasn't running?
  • Unsurprisingly, Wilier are rather keen to distance themselves from all this:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wilier-triestina-to-take-legal-action-after-motor-found-in-bike-at-cyclo-cross-worlds/

    Oh, and motors are rather old-fashioned now (caution: pich of salt required for this one)...

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/electromagnetic-wheels-are-the-new-frontier-of-mechanical-doping-claims-gazzetta-dello-sport/
  • ShutupJensShutupJens Posts: 1,373
    Now that is obviously a significant increase, certainly more than the consensus would say they could get from EPO, but the question is... for how long, and what penalty would the extra weight cause when it wasn't running?

    Serious cross riders often have 3 bikes in the pit, half lap changes mean that you wouldn't really have to use it for any more than 5 minutes at a time if you didn't want to, as long as you know which half it is most useful for and you have a half decent pit crew it should be fairly easy to take the lighter bike for the sections with more running
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 43,780 Lives Here
    To my cycling illiterate colleagues it was a TdF rider :roll:
  • inseineinseine Posts: 5,655
    bompington wrote:
    inseine wrote:
    The UCI need to release pictures of Van den Driessche's actual bike with photos of the motor, gears, battery and switches.

    The technology obviously exists, but surely an extra 1-2kg's would negate an extra 50-100W in power?

    No. 7 watts per kilo is often talked about as an impossible (or improbable) level so using your figures you're at at least 50 watts per kilo so I'd say well worth it! Not all the guys are riding bikes at the 6.8 minimum level in the Tour so a kilo isn't a big deal.
    This is some of the best maths I have ever seen!

    Errr, not.

    Let's suppose we have a 63kg rider on a 7kg bike putting out 6W/kg.

    So total power output is 70X6 = 420W

    Now add the 2kg / 100W motor and batteries: that's a total weight of 72kg, with a total power output of 520W

    520/72 ≈ 7.2W/kg.

    Now that is obviously a significant increase, certainly more than the consensus would say they could get from EPO, but the question is... for how long, and what penalty would the extra weight cause when it wasn't running?

    I'm not sure why you think it's bad maths? It's obviously incomplete as you say but not really bad as such.
    To be clear I don't think any pros are machanically doping, but for sake of arguement if you had this sort of boast you could easily fit it to a bike that was underweight so that the total extra weight is less than you're quoting. Then, there's no handicap downhill, or on the flat really. So it's just a question of any hills where you don't have enough juice to be able to use the motor. Most stages are won or lost due to one climb or one effort.
  • The newest thing are £200,000 electro magnetic wheels, which according to inventor are being used all over the grand tours.

    cahozxnxeaa8ekz_670.jpg

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/electromagnetic-wheels-are-the-new-frontier-of-mechanical-doping-claims-gazzetta-dello-sport

    Edit: missed your post professeur! :wink:
  • To my cycling illiterate colleagues it was a TdF rider :roll:

    Give it a day and it will be someone in Team Sky
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 19,288
    A day?

    Dude, Vayer and Joel had that down by Saturday night!
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 19,288
    The newest thing are £200,000 electro magnetic wheels, which according to inventor are being used all over the grand tours.

    cahozxnxeaa8ekz_670.jpg

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/electromagnetic-wheels-are-the-new-frontier-of-mechanical-doping-claims-gazzetta-dello-sport

    Edit: missed your post professeur! :wink:

    200, 000 eh?

    ...Imagine getting a puncture
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • ddraver wrote:
    The newest thing are £200,000 electro magnetic wheels, which according to inventor are being used all over the grand tours.

    cahozxnxeaa8ekz_670.jpg

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/electromagnetic-wheels-are-the-new-frontier-of-mechanical-doping-claims-gazzetta-dello-sport

    Edit: missed your post professeur! :wink:

    200, 000 eh?

    ...Imagine getting a puncture

    For 200 grand you could hire 2 super domestiques and not risk getting your team shut down.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • Oh GdS, you are a card

    When you publish the photos you claimed to have of Ferrari with Astana, I might give you a bit of airtime

    GdS is full of bs
  • cruffcruff Posts: 1,359
    The newest thing are £200,000 electro magnetic wheels, which according to inventor are being used all over the grand tours.

    cahozxnxeaa8ekz_670.jpg

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/electromagnetic-wheels-are-the-new-frontier-of-mechanical-doping-claims-gazzetta-dello-sport

    Edit: missed your post professeur! :wink:
    That is hilarious.
    Fat chopper. Some racing. Some testing. Some crashing.
    Specialising in Git Daaahns and Cafs. Transplanted Laaandoner.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 19,288
    Oh GdS, you are a card

    When you publish the photos you claimed to have of Ferrari with Astana, I might give you a bit of airtime

    GdS is full of bs

    Michael Hutchinson ‏@Doctor_Hutch
    Electromagnetic wheels. A form of cheating so cunning you can detect it with an AM radio.

    Mark Burnley ‏@DrMarkBurnley
    @Doctor_Hutch um, this has all the hallmarks of a perpetual motion device. How does any of that even work? Bit sketchy there aren't they?

    :lol::lol:
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 22,547
    Electromagnetic wheels do exist, but they don't look like that. They have magnets placed around the wheel with alternating polarities and a stationary electromagnet which switches it's polarity. In practice though, they are impractical as the magnets are too big and the electromagnet really needs to be plugged into the mains to be effective. You're better off with a motor.

    That Cyclingnews article has to be the most scientifically illiterate report I have seen in a long time. If I had written that at school my GCSE physics teacher would have suggested I try art instead. Still Stephen Farrand will be able to buy some himself when that Nigerian Prince comes through with that money he promised him.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • RichN95 wrote:
    Electromagnetic wheels do exist, but they don't look like that. They have magnets placed around the wheel with alternating polarities and a stationary electromagnet which switches it's polarity. In practice though, they are impractical as the magnets are too big and the electromagnet really needs to be plugged into the mains to be effective. You're better off with a motor.

    That Cyclingnews article has to be the most scientifically illiterate report I have seen in a long time. If I had written that at school my GCSE physics teacher would have suggested I try art instead. Still Stephen Farrand will be able to buy some himself when that Nigerian Prince comes through with that money he promised him.


    This is so typical of the standard MO for a CN piece. Cut and paste, reorder a few words and sentences, but add sweet FA in the way of context, challenge or plain common sense

    Money for old rope for Farrand and co
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 19,288
    [quote="RichN95"
    That Cyclingnews article has to be the most scientifically illiterate report I have seen in a long time. If I had written that at school my GCSE physics teacher would have suggested I try art instead. Still Stephen Farrand will be able to buy some himself when that Nigerian Prince comes through with that money he promised him.[/quote]

    One suspects Farrand's GCSE physics teacher suggested he try journalism instead of art...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 7,712
    You know it's a rubbish hoax when even the Asylum doesn't seem to be lending it much credence.

    It's actually not as bad over there as I thought - they seem to get confused when actual confirmed cheating happens.
  • bobmcstuff wrote:
    You know it's a rubbish hoax when even the Asylum doesn't seem to be lending it much credence.

    It's actually not as bad over there as I thought - they seem to get confused when actual confirmed cheating happens.


    :lol::lol:
  • RichN95 wrote:
    Electromagnetic wheels do exist, but they don't look like that. They have magnets placed around the wheel with alternating polarities and a stationary electromagnet which switches it's polarity. In practice though, they are impractical as the magnets are too big and the electromagnet really needs to be plugged into the mains to be effective. You're better off with a motor.

    That Cyclingnews article has to be the most scientifically illiterate report I have seen in a long time. If I had written that at school my GCSE physics teacher would have suggested I try art instead. Still Stephen Farrand will be able to buy some himself when that Nigerian Prince comes through with that money he promised him.


    This is so typical of the standard MO for a CN piece. Cut and paste, reorder a few words and sentences, but add sweet FA in the way of context, challenge or plain common sense

    Money for old rope for Farrand and co

    On re-reading it, I like this bit the best:

    “It’s such a perfect system that I’m sure some riders don’t know they’re using it. They just think they’ve had a great day,” Gazzetta dello Sport’s source claimed.
  • MacaloonMacaloon Posts: 5,545
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    You know it's a rubbish hoax when even the Asylum doesn't seem to be lending it much credence.

    It's actually not as bad over there as I thought - they seem to get confused when actual confirmed cheating happens.

    Belter. I would dread the inevitable melancholy that descended after every Scooby Doo collar.
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • NervexProfNervexProf Posts: 4,202
    Get your own mechanical doping machine - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TOUR-DE-FRANC ... rmvSB=true
    Common sense in an uncommon degree is what the world calls wisdom
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 19,288
    Macaloon wrote:
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    You know it's a rubbish hoax when even the Asylum doesn't seem to be lending it much credence.

    It's actually not as bad over there as I thought - they seem to get confused when actual confirmed cheating happens.

    Belter. I would dread the inevitable melancholy that descended after every Scooby Doo collar.

    The best bit is Frenchie's GF getting all shirty becasue people are questioning Bertie's Bike Changes. The pure censored water that woman posts about Froome... :roll:
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 13,659
    Morally what's the difference between this and what Nibali did in the Vuelta?
    "ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED? IS THIS NOT WHY YOU ARE HERE?"
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