Mechanical Doping update

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  • ddraverddraver Posts: 19,293
    sherer wrote:
    Any pics of the bike out there yet ?

    Dunno, but DGs club have done a cracker...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • MacaloonMacaloon Posts: 5,545
    smithy21 wrote:
    joelsim wrote:
    Mechanical doping by putting a motor in a bike is not possible. It's absurd. Someone would have patented it. This is just silly. Never gonna happen.

    :lol::lol:

    Now you just need to find some magical invisible Hungarian ones.

    :D Karma's a ***** Fair play, Joel.
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • joelsimjoelsim Posts: 7,552
    Macaloon wrote:
    smithy21 wrote:
    joelsim wrote:
    Mechanical doping by putting a motor in a bike is not possible. It's absurd. Someone would have patented it. This is just silly. Never gonna happen.

    :lol::lol:

    Now you just need to find some magical invisible Hungarian ones.

    :D Karma's a ***** Fair play, Joel.

    It's not Femke's bike, it was brought along by her friend.
    My men 2019: Superman Lopez, Gaviria, Henao, Teuns, Tejay, Gaudu, Cosnefroy, Evenepoel, Pidcock.
  • joelsimjoelsim Posts: 7,552
    itboffin wrote:
    They are still only calling it a technological fraud not actually mentioning what, all the mentions of motors are from peoples twitter replies as far as I can see.

    No, it's been confirmed that there was a motor in the bottom bracket.
    My men 2019: Superman Lopez, Gaviria, Henao, Teuns, Tejay, Gaudu, Cosnefroy, Evenepoel, Pidcock.
  • Her brother is sitting out 2 years for doping too...
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • slim_boy_fatslim_boy_fat Posts: 1,807
    Her brother is sitting out 2 years for doping too...
    I've seen this reported elsewhere but also seen someone say she has two brothers but that they can't find any doping offences against them.
  • Her brother is sitting out 2 years for doping too...
    I've seen this reported elsewhere but also seen someone say she has two brothers but that they can't find any doping offences against them.

    Niels is the suspended brother
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • joelsimjoelsim Posts: 7,552
    Her brother is sitting out 2 years for doping too...
    I've seen this reported elsewhere but also seen someone say she has two brothers but that they can't find any doping offences against them.

    One of her brothers was hiding in the top tube
    My men 2019: Superman Lopez, Gaviria, Henao, Teuns, Tejay, Gaudu, Cosnefroy, Evenepoel, Pidcock.
  • slim_boy_fatslim_boy_fat Posts: 1,807
    Her brother is sitting out 2 years for doping too...
    I've seen this reported elsewhere but also seen someone say she has two brothers but that they can't find any doping offences against them.

    Niels is the suspended brother
    Cheers. Lots of questions for the family then.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 19,293
    itboffin wrote:
    They are still only calling it a technological fraud not actually mentioning what, all the mentions of motors are from peoples twitter replies as far as I can see.

    No, its confirmed. Her story is that she sold a bike to a friend (?manager) who used it on training rides with her and fitted a motor to keep up. It was in the truck and mistakenly was taken to the pit by the mechanic. She claims she did nt use the bike during the race. The UCI claim differently (a lot will hang on proving if she ever used the bike or not). As said it was far from a secret clandestine attempt, it was mickey mouse in it's efforts and was spotted using whatever the UCI have developed to detect these things (it's been translated as "a tablet", but I don't think they meant an ipad or similar)

    No motors and batteríes invisible to the human eye with wires inset into the frame or what ever nonsense we had to contend with up thread
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • itboffinitboffin Posts: 19,407
    Would be weird then to have tried and pass it off, perhaps her story is true
    Rule #5 // Harden The censored Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 19,293
    Edit - ademorts dutch is better than mine
    ademort wrote:
    I,ve just read a report on HLN,BE which says that Femke had told Sporza that her Brother and Friend who the suspect bike belonged to had done a lap of the course together and afterwards put the bike against the team wagon. Femke said the bike is identical to her bike and her friend bought the bike from her the year before.
    She then says that the mechanics have probably took the bike mistakenly and cleaned it and prepared it for the race and she knew nothing of the mix up until the UCI checked the bike.


    Sven has been instagramming the hell out of his morning ride with his son on the course (son not wearing team kit) so it does seem like non-racers riding the course is far from uncommon
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 19,293
    Interesting from Hutch

    "Everyone rightly horrified about a motorised bike. But worth remembering that, at current state of technology, doping is more effective."
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • joelsimjoelsim Posts: 7,552
    So, a motor that gave you a 20 second boost of 50w on the Mur definitely wouldn't give you a huge advantage?
    My men 2019: Superman Lopez, Gaviria, Henao, Teuns, Tejay, Gaudu, Cosnefroy, Evenepoel, Pidcock.
  • andypandyp Posts: 8,084
    joelsim wrote:
    So, a motor that gave you a 20 second boost of 50w on the Mur definitely wouldn't give you a huge advantage?

    That depends on how desperate you are to win the ENECO Tour.
  • adr82adr82 Posts: 4,002
    ddraver wrote:
    Interesting from Hutch

    "Everyone rightly horrified about a motorised bike. But worth remembering that, at current state of technology, doping is more effective."
    Unless you have the magical Hungarian motor of course.
  • kleinstrokerkleinstroker Posts: 2,130
    Not buying any of it. Where did this technology come from? A high torque motor in that form factor with a clearance for axle is highly improbable
  • joelsimjoelsim Posts: 7,552
    Not buying any of it. Where did this technology come from? A high torque motor in that form factor with a clearance for axle is highly improbable

    How can you say that? One has been found!
    My men 2019: Superman Lopez, Gaviria, Henao, Teuns, Tejay, Gaudu, Cosnefroy, Evenepoel, Pidcock.
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 13,548
    Any reports where the battery was stored on the bike?
    "ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED? IS THIS NOT WHY YOU ARE HERE?"
  • itboffinitboffin Posts: 19,407
    I wonder how many of these have and are being used in sportive events?
    Rule #5 // Harden The censored Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • itboffin wrote:
    I wonder how many of these have and are being used in sportive events?

    Considering you can't buy one on Wiggle (yet) absolutely zero.
    #f*ckwit
  • kleinstrokerkleinstroker Posts: 2,130
    joelsim wrote:
    Not buying any of it. Where did this technology come from? A high torque motor in that form factor with a clearance for axle is highly improbable

    How can you say that? One has been found!

    Has anyone seen it yet?
    Is it an actual motor?
    Is it capable of giving an advantage?

    Until I see all these questions answered I will be cynical until the very end
  • So the uci just made it up?
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 7,721
    joelsim wrote:
    Not buying any of it. Where did this technology come from? A high torque motor in that form factor with a clearance for axle is highly improbable

    How can you say that? One has been found!

    Has anyone seen it yet?
    Is it an actual motor?
    Is it capable of giving an advantage?

    Until I see all these questions answered I will be cynical until the very end

    I'm kind of assuming it'll be similar to the Vivax Assist (given how easily was apparently detected).
  • joelsimjoelsim Posts: 7,552
    Yes it is an actual motor. It was found through detecting RF, at which point they took the cranks off to find the motor hidden in the bottom bracket.
    My men 2019: Superman Lopez, Gaviria, Henao, Teuns, Tejay, Gaudu, Cosnefroy, Evenepoel, Pidcock.
  • ocdupalaisocdupalais Posts: 3,597
    I've got no problem with this mechanical doping - even if they go up to 1000cc and have much fatter tyres - as long as we keep the spectacle of attacking racing. I'm a romantic, me.
  • DeVlaeminckDeVlaeminck Posts: 5,261
    awavey wrote:
    no, weve always said it wasnt possible to build a motor small enough to fit in a bike frame that passed a simple visual look, and it has to pass a visual look as else everyone would just be pointing and staring at it, thats not the same as undetectable unless you have this whatever the UCI "pad" is doing or you try to dismantle the bike, the bike with the motor has to still look like a bike without a motor to pass. And the motors output had to at least compensate for the weight penalty of carrying it as else theres no point to it, though pro cyclists will happily buy snake oil if they thought it would help give them an extra watt .

    and if you had invented that kind of technology, small enough to be not blindingly obvious & visible, power output in excess of weight penalty, then youd be making way more money selling it round the world, than you could trying to sell it to pro bike racers.


    What do you think the UCI have found then ? There is no argument, the technology exists and now it seems probably that someone has been caught trying to use it.
    Holbrook Sports FC Women - sign for us
  • kleinstrokerkleinstroker Posts: 2,130
    So the uci just made it up?

    Ok just read up on assist motors from gruber and vitax, so they do exist, but not in the form factor I was expecting, and they weigh a good 2kg, which seems like a hell of a lot of extra weight to carry, and pretty easy to detect I would have thought without fancy "tablets"
  • adr82adr82 Posts: 4,002
    itboffin wrote:
    I wonder how many of these have and are being used in sportive events?

    Considering you can't buy one on Wiggle (yet) absolutely zero.
    You can buy them in other places though, eg http://www.vivax-assist.com/en/produkte/e-rennrad/fahrrad.php?catId=E-Rennrad. I'm sure there are some others out there if you know where to look. I can absolutely see someone with more money than sense who wants to "win" a sportive spending a few thousand quid on one. If some people are willing to take EPO or whatever else as part of amateur events there's no way they'd shy away from mechanical doping too, and nobody is going to check your bike at a sportive.
  • itboffinitboffin Posts: 19,407
    i was also skeptical but they do exist, takes a bit of digging but full bikes and kits are out there, what i dont understand is there's clearly a weight disadvantage when its not in use and as the battery life is limited i can't see a pro race situation where it would be worth it, over even a small race distance the battery would die and you'd be lugging extra weight compared to the rest of the field.

    changing bottle batteries mid ride would attract lots of attention unless you used a contact patch connection system like a docking station
    Rule #5 // Harden The censored Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
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