Mechanical Doping update

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  • joelsimjoelsim Posts: 7,552
    Here's the Koppenberg climb that's creating some fuss.

    https://youtu.be/kv3CiyrRTMg
    My men 2019: Superman Lopez, Gaviria, Henao, Teuns, Tejay, Gaudu, Cosnefroy, Evenepoel, Pidcock.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 19,292
    Its 1.8kg to ride along a flat section into the decisive hill whereupon you switch bikes and make the advantage sticky

    The biggest hole in Femke's story is the Koppernbergcross which - despite me not wanting to give too much credence to climb times - really does look Ricco-esque. The expression on Helen Wyman's face really does say it all. That was won by a girl who in any other country would have been a Quintana like mountain goat who was in great form. Form arguably timed far too early in the season
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • joelsim wrote:
    Here's the Koppenberg climb that's creating some fuss.

    https://youtu.be/kv3CiyrRTMg
    Wow, everyone else is rocking and rolling but she's smooth as butter.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 43,799 Lives Here
    joelsim wrote:
    Here's the Koppenberg climb that's creating some fuss.

    https://youtu.be/kv3CiyrRTMg
    Wow, everyone else is rocking and rolling but she's smooth as butter.

    In fairness, it's just like that with me on the commute :wink: .
  • do CF and Sky should be worried when A.Vayer said he publish an amazing book in February, he is photographed with Hajo Seppelt and with this mechanical doping yesterday, he wrote: Hang out, best is to come, Then real cycling. He said last year that Froome used a motor. I do not know what to think.
  • DeVlaeminckDeVlaeminck Posts: 5,256
    itboffin wrote:
    i was also skeptical but they do exist, takes a bit of digging but full bikes and kits are out there, what i dont understand is there's clearly a weight disadvantage when its not in use and as the battery life is limited i can't see a pro race situation where it would be worth it,


    Pretty easy for a pro bike to come in under the UCI limit and on occasions teams have actually added weights to keep them legal.
    Holbrook Sports FC Women - sign for us
  • frisbeefrisbee Posts: 691
    do CF and Sky should be worried when A.Vayer said he publish an amazing book in February, he is photographed with Hajo Seppelt and with this mechanical doping yesterday, he wrote: Hang out, best is to come, Then real cycling. He said last year that Froome used a motor. I do not know what to think.

    That physics teachers know more about electric motors than gym teachers?
  • Paul 8vPaul 8v Posts: 5,458
    The motor makes sense in a road race where you can sit in the bunch, weight isn't such an issue when going a constant speed. An extra however many watts at a hill is going to make a difference though.

    I suppose for cross you just swap out to the bike you want when you want to launch your attack, by the time it's run out you get another bike
  • joelsimjoelsim Posts: 7,552
    To be honest revisiting the plethora of Cance footage leaves me with no doubt in my mind.
    My men 2019: Superman Lopez, Gaviria, Henao, Teuns, Tejay, Gaudu, Cosnefroy, Evenepoel, Pidcock.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 19,292
    Joel switched back to batsh1t crazy then....
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • itboffinitboffin Posts: 19,396
    I want one
    Rule #5 // Harden The censored Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • redvisionredvision Posts: 2,314
    joelsim wrote:
    Here's the Koppenberg climb that's creating some fuss.

    https://youtu.be/kv3CiyrRTMg

    Wow. Every other rider struggling massively, she just cruises up there almost without breaking sweat.
    Pretty bl00dy obvious now why!
  • joelsimjoelsim Posts: 7,552
    ddraver wrote:
    Joel switched back to batsh1t crazy then....

    Revisit them, there are quite a few.
    My men 2019: Superman Lopez, Gaviria, Henao, Teuns, Tejay, Gaudu, Cosnefroy, Evenepoel, Pidcock.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 19,292
    ...which suggests that he s just good at sharp accelerations.... which we know
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • ocdupalais wrote:
    I've got no problem with this mechanical doping - even if they go up to 1000cc and have much fatter tyres - as long as we keep the spectacle of attacking racing. I'm a romantic, me.


    :lol:
  • smithy21smithy21 Posts: 2,197
    joelsim wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    Joel switched back to batsh1t crazy then....

    Revisit them, there are quite a few.

    Did Boonen use them too or just Canc?
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 13,543
    joelsim wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    Joel switched back to batsh1t crazy then....

    Revisit them, there are quite a few.

    Have you any thoughts on the suggestion in certain quarters of Twitter that Froome must have used one on Ventoux, thereby explaining the spinning cadence, alleged low heart rate and why Sky keep him so skinny.
    "ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED? IS THIS NOT WHY YOU ARE HERE?"
  • joelsimjoelsim Posts: 7,552
    smithy21 wrote:
    joelsim wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    Joel switched back to batsh1t crazy then....

    Revisit them, there are quite a few.

    Did Boonen use them too or just Canc?

    Didn't look like Boonen was using in the clips I've looked at
    My men 2019: Superman Lopez, Gaviria, Henao, Teuns, Tejay, Gaudu, Cosnefroy, Evenepoel, Pidcock.
  • joelsim wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    Joel switched back to batsh1t crazy then....

    Revisit them, there are quite a few.

    Have you any thoughts on the suggestion in certain quarters of Twitter that Froome must have used one on Ventoux, thereby explaining the spinning cadence, alleged low heart rate and why Sky keep him so skinny.


    Umm...the usual explanation of certain quarters of Twitter being inhabited by the sad, the weak-minded & the just-plain-not-very-bright?
  • joelsimjoelsim Posts: 7,552
    joelsim wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    Joel switched back to batsh1t crazy then....

    Revisit them, there are quite a few.

    Have you any thoughts on the suggestion in certain quarters of Twitter that Froome must have used one on Ventoux, thereby explaining the spinning cadence, alleged low heart rate and why Sky keep him so skinny.

    No evidence and that is his trademark move which he's done several times since when his bike has been tested afterwards including La Pierre-Saint Martin
    My men 2019: Superman Lopez, Gaviria, Henao, Teuns, Tejay, Gaudu, Cosnefroy, Evenepoel, Pidcock.
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 7,719
    I still haven't seen anything which suggests a motor would be anything other than easy to find if you look for it and it seems pretty clear that sky's bikes get a fair amount of scrutiny.

    Maybe they were doing fewer bike tests for those Cancellara ones - I don't know if the bike inspections have got more stringent and regular in the past year or so?
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 19,292
    joelsim wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    Joel switched back to batsh1t crazy then....

    Revisit them, there are quite a few.

    Have you any thoughts on the suggestion in certain quarters of Twitter that Froome must have used one on Ventoux, thereby explaining the spinning cadence, alleged low heart rate and why Sky keep him so skinny.


    Umm...the usual explanation of certain quarters of Twitter being inhabited by the sad, the weak-minded & the just-plain-not-very-bright?

    that...plus cycling seems to attract more than it's fair share of Conspiracy Nutters. Someone should start a Flat Earth Thread in The Clinic, it would be even more popular than the Froome one... :roll:
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • awaveyawavey Posts: 2,145
    awavey wrote:
    no, weve always said it wasnt possible to build a motor small enough to fit in a bike frame that passed a simple visual look, and it has to pass a visual look as else everyone would just be pointing and staring at it, thats not the same as undetectable unless you have this whatever the UCI "pad" is doing or you try to dismantle the bike, the bike with the motor has to still look like a bike without a motor to pass. And the motors output had to at least compensate for the weight penalty of carrying it as else theres no point to it, though pro cyclists will happily buy snake oil if they thought it would help give them an extra watt .

    and if you had invented that kind of technology, small enough to be not blindingly obvious & visible, power output in excess of weight penalty, then youd be making way more money selling it round the world, than you could trying to sell it to pro bike racers.


    What do you think the UCI have found then ? There is no argument, the technology exists and now it seems probably that someone has been caught trying to use it.

    until the UCI choose to release more technical details, and they dont appear to be in a sharing mood at the moment, all we know is theyve stated they found a concealed motor in a bike, we dont know any more than that no matter how many times people post videos from any other races, we dont know the size of this motor, we dont know how well concealed it was, what its output was,how long it could run, we dont even know fwiw if this bike was even used in this race, we only know it was found in the pits possibly during,or maybe after she retired with mechanical,or maybe even shortly after the race finished

    and at the risk of repeating myself though maybe Ill try and be clearer on this point, the debate was never about could you just put a motor mechanism in a bike frame,you plainly can, there are commercially available bikes like this, but if you turned up at a race on one, theyd be very obviously recognised for what they were.

    so it was always could you put a motor mechanism in a bike frame and conceal it completely which includes all the other stuff that actually makes the motor do its work, like the wires, the battery, even the switch that turns it on/off. so that if you stood it alongside an identical frame type bike without a motor, you wouldnt be able to visually tell the difference, and thats been the key to the debate as far back as I can remember on it.

    it doesnt mean some people wont try with half baked solutions and hope the chaos of bike changes in a CX race people dont check too closely or notice, people still take EPO and hope not to be caught so its ultimately not too disimilar from that respect
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 19,292
    The UCI are pretty certain she did apparently

    To be fair to the UCI, they deserve a lot of credit for this. If you find something in the U23 race you still have 3 other races to come, so do as they did, seize everything, make an announcement and start the investigation on Monday...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 43,799 Lives Here
    ddraver wrote:
    joelsim wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    Joel switched back to batsh1t crazy then....

    Revisit them, there are quite a few.

    Have you any thoughts on the suggestion in certain quarters of Twitter that Froome must have used one on Ventoux, thereby explaining the spinning cadence, alleged low heart rate and why Sky keep him so skinny.


    Umm...the usual explanation of certain quarters of Twitter being inhabited by the sad, the weak-minded & the just-plain-not-very-bright?

    that...plus cycling seems to attract more than it's fair share of Conspiracy Nutters. Someone should start a Flat Earth Thread in The Clinic, it would be even more popular than the Froome one... :roll:

    You mean Americans.
  • It may be illegal in UCI races, but as I am not planning to ride in any I would quite like to install one of these motors.

    Where are they for sale?
  • It may be illegal in UCI races, but as I am not planning to ride in any I would quite like to install one of these motors.

    Where are they for sale?

    Buy a moped, then you won't have to do any of the work!
  • joelsimjoelsim Posts: 7,552
    From what I can garner the UCI tested for some RF/electromagnetics, which showed up, took the saddle off and found wires in there, then took the cranks off which didn't come off as normal to find the motor hidden in the BB. It appears that the bike looked exactly the same as a non-motored bike to the naked eye. It apparently also had her name on it.

    Cookson has said that they don't want to go into more detail about this new detection equipment for obvious reasons.

    As far as I'm aware historically, they have only really been checking bikes in the last couple of years.
    My men 2019: Superman Lopez, Gaviria, Henao, Teuns, Tejay, Gaudu, Cosnefroy, Evenepoel, Pidcock.
  • FJSFJS Posts: 4,820
    It may be illegal in UCI races, but as I am not planning to ride in any I would quite like to install one of these motors.

    Where are they for sale?
    http://wieleke.be/pages/nl/info/664/Rie ... -bike.html

    Belgian TV news video explaining how it works
    http://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20160131_02100488
  • isn't this all easily fixed by having cyclists do weigh ins on bikes before race? It's hardly rocket science and they couldn't hide nearly 2 kilos extra
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