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  • Jezyboy
    Jezyboy Posts: 3,678
    Meanwhile a load of snowflakes are crying about someone calling them names?
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 62,022
    Jezyboy said:

    Meanwhile a load of snowflakes are crying about someone calling them names?

    I don't see any crying, just a senior Labour politician being abusive and unprofessional. IMO she has only been topped for Labour crass behaviour in recent times by John Prescott (previous deputy PM) chinning someone who threw an egg at him.

    It also demonstrated quite neatly why Labour are screwed. Lefties like Rayner seem to assume that they are morally superior to anyone who votes tory and cannot/do not want to understand why so many did at the last election. I hope she doesn't get sacked as she is nearly as big a liability as Corbyn :)

    Maybe Starmer tolerates her because she says the stuff that he daren't and he can always make her the fall guy if public opinion goes against them?
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,670
    Stevo your last sentence implies public opinion is with them, which doesn't quite stack up with the election results ;)
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,983
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,692
    Stevo_666 said:

    Meanwhile, Labour is being true to form...
    https://telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/09/26/angela-rayner-faces-calls-apologise-describing-tories-bunch/

    She's the new darling of Corbyn's fans though isn't she? No point her criticising the Tories when it is the likes of her that make Labour too unpalatable as an alternative.
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,629
    Pross said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Meanwhile, Labour is being true to form...
    https://telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/09/26/angela-rayner-faces-calls-apologise-describing-tories-bunch/

    She's the new darling of Corbyn's fans though isn't she? No point her criticising the Tories when it is the likes of her that make Labour too unpalatable as an alternative.
    She may have competition following the resignation of the shadow employment secretary over the leadership not backing a £15 ph minimum wage. He was hailed as a hero by the leftie fringe meeting he went to last night, having his name repeatedly chanted!
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 62,022
    pangolin said:

    Stevo your last sentence implies public opinion is with them, which doesn't quite stack up with the election results ;)

    I meant public opinion on any specific case of her mouthing off and abusing others, rather than generally.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 62,022
    edited September 2021
    briantrumpet said:

    Clearly two wrongs don't make a right. But as the article that you posted points out, the main difference is that he has apologised whereas Rayner has not.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,302
    She should have called him a mutton headed old mugwump.

  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,983
    Stevo_666 said:

    briantrumpet said:

    Clearly two wrongs don't make a right. But as the article that you posted points out, the main difference is that he has apologised whereas Rayner has not.

    Agreed. The silly thing is she could apologise whilst reinforcing the point she's making (that Johnson has never apologised for his various racial and homophobic remarks). On the language front, as someone in the Graun pointed out, she'd probably have been OK with 'scumbag'.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 62,022
    Pross said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Meanwhile, Labour is being true to form...
    https://telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/09/26/angela-rayner-faces-calls-apologise-describing-tories-bunch/

    She's the new darling of Corbyn's fans though isn't she? No point her criticising the Tories when it is the likes of her that make Labour too unpalatable as an alternative.
    I'm happy for her to stay and keep mouthing off like this: it will help show the public who the real nasty party is in this country. Clearly this point may be lost on members of the hard left and the knee jerk tory haters.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,302
    edited September 2021
    Did it hurt your feelings?

    I'm sure she's upset to have lost the vote of a previously paid up Labour supporter.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    edited September 2021
    The current prime minister literally wrote this

    “The modern British male is useless.

    “If he is blue collar, he is likely to be drunk, criminal, aimless, feckless and hopeless, and perhaps claiming to suffer from low self-esteem brought on by unemployment.”


    He also wrote that, after a labour minister resigned would lead to blubbing of “tank-topped bumboys”.

    He also wrote about

    “Labour’s appalling agenda, encouraging the teaching of homosexuality in schools, and all the rest of it.”


    He also wrote

    “If gay marriage was OK… I saw no reason in principle why a union should not be consecrated between three men, as well as two men, or indeed three men and a dog.”


    I would suggest Tory supporters pay attention to their own kind before they start throwing stones in their glass house.
    _
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,929
    Dorset_Boy said:

    Pross said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Meanwhile, Labour is being true to form...
    https://telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/09/26/angela-rayner-faces-calls-apologise-describing-tories-bunch/

    She's the new darling of Corbyn's fans though isn't she? No point her criticising the Tories when it is the likes of her that make Labour too unpalatable as an alternative.
    She may have competition following the resignation of the shadow employment secretary over the leadership not backing a £15 ph minimum wage. He was hailed as a hero by the leftie fringe meeting he went to last night, having his name repeatedly chanted!
    Ah, the performative resignation immediately followed by pious claims that they just couldn't go on... 🥱

    Somewhat undermined by having fully supported the lower £10/hr minimum wage just a couple of years ago.

    As an aside, isn't £15/hr about £33k a year? Or have I done my sums wrong? That seems a trifle unrealistic.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,302
    edited September 2021
    Closer comparison would be this article he wrote when he was foreign secretary: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3422855/dont-feel-sorry-for-helpless-jeremy-corbyn-he-poses-an-enormous-threat-to-our-country/

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    rjsterry said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    Pross said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Meanwhile, Labour is being true to form...
    https://telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/09/26/angela-rayner-faces-calls-apologise-describing-tories-bunch/

    She's the new darling of Corbyn's fans though isn't she? No point her criticising the Tories when it is the likes of her that make Labour too unpalatable as an alternative.
    She may have competition following the resignation of the shadow employment secretary over the leadership not backing a £15 ph minimum wage. He was hailed as a hero by the leftie fringe meeting he went to last night, having his name repeatedly chanted!
    Ah, the performative resignation immediately followed by pious claims that they just couldn't go on... 🥱

    Somewhat undermined by having fully supported the lower £10/hr minimum wage just a couple of years ago.

    As an aside, isn't £15/hr about £33k a year? Or have I done my sums wrong? That seems a trifle unrealistic.
    £31k but yeah.

    It's basically the average current pay per hour. So yeah, it's fairy, err, ambitious.
    _
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,983
    rick_chasey said:

    rjsterry said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    Pross said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Meanwhile, Labour is being true to form...
    https://telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/09/26/angela-rayner-faces-calls-apologise-describing-tories-bunch/

    She's the new darling of Corbyn's fans though isn't she? No point her criticising the Tories when it is the likes of her that make Labour too unpalatable as an alternative.
    She may have competition following the resignation of the shadow employment secretary over the leadership not backing a £15 ph minimum wage. He was hailed as a hero by the leftie fringe meeting he went to last night, having his name repeatedly chanted!
    Ah, the performative resignation immediately followed by pious claims that they just couldn't go on... 🥱

    Somewhat undermined by having fully supported the lower £10/hr minimum wage just a couple of years ago.

    As an aside, isn't £15/hr about £33k a year? Or have I done my sums wrong? That seems a trifle unrealistic.
    £31k but yeah.

    It's basically the average current pay per hour. So yeah, it's fairy, err, ambitious.

    Makes me wonder if they took the '15' from a suggested minimum wage in the US, and just substituted £ for $.

    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,929
    rick_chasey said:

    rjsterry said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    Pross said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Meanwhile, Labour is being true to form...
    https://telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/09/26/angela-rayner-faces-calls-apologise-describing-tories-bunch/

    She's the new darling of Corbyn's fans though isn't she? No point her criticising the Tories when it is the likes of her that make Labour too unpalatable as an alternative.
    She may have competition following the resignation of the shadow employment secretary over the leadership not backing a £15 ph minimum wage. He was hailed as a hero by the leftie fringe meeting he went to last night, having his name repeatedly chanted!
    Ah, the performative resignation immediately followed by pious claims that they just couldn't go on... 🥱

    Somewhat undermined by having fully supported the lower £10/hr minimum wage just a couple of years ago.

    As an aside, isn't £15/hr about £33k a year? Or have I done my sums wrong? That seems a trifle unrealistic.
    £31k but yeah.

    It's basically the average current pay per hour. So yeah, it's fairy, err, ambitious.
    The idea that £31k represents a minimum standard of living is also somewhat fantastical.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,633
    edited September 2021
    Never mind, old data...
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    pblakeney said:

    rjsterry said:

    rick_chasey said:

    rjsterry said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    Pross said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Meanwhile, Labour is being true to form...
    https://telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/09/26/angela-rayner-faces-calls-apologise-describing-tories-bunch/

    She's the new darling of Corbyn's fans though isn't she? No point her criticising the Tories when it is the likes of her that make Labour too unpalatable as an alternative.
    She may have competition following the resignation of the shadow employment secretary over the leadership not backing a £15 ph minimum wage. He was hailed as a hero by the leftie fringe meeting he went to last night, having his name repeatedly chanted!
    Ah, the performative resignation immediately followed by pious claims that they just couldn't go on... 🥱

    Somewhat undermined by having fully supported the lower £10/hr minimum wage just a couple of years ago.

    As an aside, isn't £15/hr about £33k a year? Or have I done my sums wrong? That seems a trifle unrealistic.
    £31k but yeah.

    It's basically the average current pay per hour. So yeah, it's fairy, err, ambitious.
    The idea that £31k represents a minimum standard of living is also somewhat fantastical.
    Also, isn't the average salary £25,780?
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/280687/full-time-hourly-wage-uk/

    We're just quoting different stats - I think the one I am referring to the average for full-time.
    _
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,633
    I updated before your corrected post appeared. 😉
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • skyblueamateur
    skyblueamateur Posts: 1,498
    The hard left are absolutely off their nut.

    Channel 4 news was at a fringe meeting yesterday with an element of them. They were selling derogatory t-shirts about Starmer. You just think grow up.

    They oppose everything but stand for nothing sensible. A bit like this current government to be honest.

    The standard of politics and politicians is at an absolute low. Everybody, regardless of their political leanings should be concerned with this.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    The labour party's ability to get really upset about theoretical policies *that they can only enact if they win an election* and not about *things that will stop them winning an election* is quite remarkable.
    _
  • skyblueamateur
    skyblueamateur Posts: 1,498
    rick_chasey said:

    The labour party's ability to get really upset about theoretical policies *that they can only enact if they win an election* and not about *things that will stop them winning an election* is quite remarkable.

    Haha it is crazy and is why they were so unelectable until New Labour. They have learnt nothing.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    skyblueamateur said:

    rick_chasey said:

    The labour party's ability to get really upset about theoretical policies *that they can only enact if they win an election* and not about *things that will stop them winning an election* is quite remarkable.

    Haha it is crazy and is why they were so unelectable until New Labour. They have learnt nothing.
    Also, this hatred for Tony Blair and New Labour.

    Blair and New Labour are their only success in 50 years.
    _
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,302
    skyblueamateur said:

    rick_chasey said:

    The labour party's ability to get really upset about theoretical policies *that they can only enact if they win an election* and not about *things that will stop them winning an election* is quite remarkable.

    Haha it is crazy and is why they were so unelectable until New Labour. They have learnt nothing.
    Yesterday's big policy push was supposed to be "tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime" which is still a winning slogan, surely.

    Unfortunately it was also pronouns and insults.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    skyblueamateur said:

    The hard left are absolutely off their nut.

    Channel 4 news was at a fringe meeting yesterday with an element of them. They were selling derogatory t-shirts about Starmer. You just think grow up.

    They oppose everything but stand for nothing sensible. A bit like this current government to be honest.

    The standard of politics and politicians is at an absolute low. Everybody, regardless of their political leanings should be concerned with this.

    couldn't agree more but for me the problems stem from the parties not having a mass membership so they are driven by the small minded bigotry of circa 100,000 each. This is reinforced by our medieval system of government.

    In theory fixing the system of govt would be easy but I have no idea how you remove the parties from the clutches of the extremists.

    If the hippies had any sense they would stop gluing themselves to the M25 and join their local tory associations and elect themselves as the local MP.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    I have been doing a bit of thinking and reading around the future of the left, given the new political alignment across Europe, and I think Blair is pretty close to the mark.

    I think Starmer is a 20th Century politician in a 21st Century world. I think that is passable on the modern right as most of your voting base have their best years behind them and think it was better when they weren't decrepit and they understood the world better.

    I think the future of the left, if they are to be successful, is to get ahead of the changes technology has brought to our lives, both in work and in private, and work out a vision which brings it all together for more people than just the darwinian winners & losers.

    I think with technology and sustainability you have two forces which are going to upend our lives one way or another. There will be a big proportion of the population who will want to resist that in various ways (and logic dictates that will likely be people who are nearer to their grave as the changes will affect less of their life), and a population who will want to be ahead of the changes.

    I think that is part of the wider bificurication of politics that you see across the West.

    The issues that affect the young are different to what they used to be, and after a lifetime where they were roughly the same, there is a misunderstanding there.

    Starmer is not the right man for the job therefore, and if he gets in it is only because this happens to be one of the most incapable governments in British Parliamentary history.
    _
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,929
    skyblueamateur said:

    rick_chasey said:

    The labour party's ability to get really upset about theoretical policies *that they can only enact if they win an election* and not about *things that will stop them winning an election* is quite remarkable.

    Haha it is crazy and is why they were so unelectable until New Labour. They have learnt nothing.
    A choice of can't govern versus won't govern.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Speaking of a popular labour policy, are we going to end up with a nationalised rail service by default?

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/sep/28/government-to-take-over-southeastern-after-serious-breach-of-franchise

    Another franchise fails.
    _

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