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  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,411
    rjsterry wrote:
    Because it's laughable. I know you'd like Corbyn to be some Communist bogeyman, but he's a rather ineffectual old Labour throwback.
    Maybe, but the spy row is still going:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43111794
    No smoke without fire as they say...
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Because it's laughable. I know you'd like Corbyn to be some Communist bogeyman, but he's a rather ineffectual old Labour throwback.
    Maybe, but the spy row is still going:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43111794
    No smoke without fire as they say...

    pretty sure Mi5 would have had a file on him, he is hardly Kim Philby lol
    so failing that infomation, we ll have to take this instead....

    The director of the Czech Security Service Archive told the BBC that their files suggest Mr Corbyn was seen as a possible "contact" but no more than that.

    However, you r right about no smoke etc..... https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... servatives

    Never did like that IDS :shock:
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 15,930
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    If we really do have to raise £80bn then I prefer the VAT route - at least then there is some element of choice. That said, as mamba is so keen on the idea, maybe he could lead by example and pay more tax :wink:

    Personally I am surprised that nobody has raised the point about the leader of the labour party being a traitor to his country and so fundamentally unsuited to lead a major political party - never mind the country that he has betrayed.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02/16/jeremy-corbyn-knew-spy-cold-war-source-says-czech-diplomat/

    That said, why am I not surprise he did this? :)

    Not surprised at all Stevo. The story must be a shock to no-one.
    Mind you, why the Czechs/Russkies think a political activist who took his girlfiend, Ms Abbott on a romantic tour of E Germany in the 70s would be sympathetic to the commie cause is beyond me. :wink:

    As a scoop it is up there with Hewitt could be Harry's dad.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,411
    Ballysmate wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    If we really do have to raise £80bn then I prefer the VAT route - at least then there is some element of choice. That said, as mamba is so keen on the idea, maybe he could lead by example and pay more tax :wink:

    Personally I am surprised that nobody has raised the point about the leader of the labour party being a traitor to his country and so fundamentally unsuited to lead a major political party - never mind the country that he has betrayed.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02/16/jeremy-corbyn-knew-spy-cold-war-source-says-czech-diplomat/

    That said, why am I not surprise he did this? :)

    Not surprised at all Stevo. The story must be a shock to no-one.
    Mind you, why the Czechs/Russkies think a political activist who took his girlfiend, Ms Abbott on a romantic tour of E Germany in the 70s would be sympathetic to the commie cause is beyond me. :wink:

    As a scoop it is up there with Hewitt could be Harry's dad.
    McDonnell is now implicated as well. I suppose it was no surprise that 'Mini-Me' would be far behind :)
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    No smoke without fire as they say...

    "They" being the people commonly heard shouting "burn him (or her), burn him (or her)" in response to the latest Daily Mail front page. Intelligent people do not say "no smoke without fire" particularly when we are living in times when we are being deluged with fake news.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    i hope you ll be issuing a full page apology when this story turns out to be total cr@p ?
    i mean JC was low level back bench MP .... what exactly do you suppose he passed on to Czech intelligence? who btw say he was nt an informant,
    though perhaps its a sign of Mays desperation that she has got involved, she was home secretary for 6 years, with access to all the relevant MI5 files... yet there are none... wonder why...
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Mamba said

    However, you r right about no smoke etc..... https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... servatives

    Never did like that IDS :shock:

    That really is a shocking article - with some interesting names cropping up.

    I had to Google John Bercow to check it is the same guy who is now Speaker
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    Leading tory brexitiers are supporters of neo nazi parties, no surprises there...

    i was surprised by Bercow though.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,411
    mamba80 wrote:
    i hope you ll be issuing a full page apology when this story turns out to be total cr@p ?
    i mean JC was low level back bench MP .... what exactly do you suppose he passed on to Czech intelligence? who btw say he was nt an informant,
    though perhaps its a sign of Mays desperation that she has got involved, she was home secretary for 6 years, with access to all the relevant MI5 files... yet there are none... wonder why...
    Well of course if Corbyn says he didn't do anything then that's good enough for you is it?

    I'm happy for anyone being caught passing on info to hostile nations and/or being members of extremist parties to be banned from office. On the latter point, that automatically disqualifies Corbyn and McDonnell by virtue of their position in the New Old Labour party :)
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Jez mon
    Jez mon Posts: 3,809
    Honestly, if a communist spy has got to the position of leader of the opposition, I'd say MI5 need to take a good look at themselves!
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    i hope you ll be issuing a full page apology when this story turns out to be total cr@p ?
    i mean JC was low level back bench MP .... what exactly do you suppose he passed on to Czech intelligence? who btw say he was nt an informant,
    though perhaps its a sign of Mays desperation that she has got involved, she was home secretary for 6 years, with access to all the relevant MI5 files... yet there are none... wonder why...
    Well of course if Corbyn says he didn't do anything then that's good enough for you is it?

    I'm happy for anyone being caught passing on info to hostile nations and/or being members of extremist parties to be banned from office. On the latter point, that automatically disqualifies Corbyn and McDonnell by virtue of their position in the New Old Labour party :)

    Like i said in an earlier post, if there is evidence, then he should be charged...not just disqualified from being an MP... there isnt any, not from the Gov, MI5, the Czech authorities or for that matter yourself.

    When you ve the evidence rather than hearsay, then come back..... sounds to me like a Trump style smear "Clinton has Brain cancer/eats babies/is supported by the Chinese etc etc.

    tbh i m surprised you believe this sort of stuff without evidence, perhaps desperation as the tories plunge us into brexit mayhem?
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    A lot of missing the point with the whole "Czech spy Corbyn" thing. I don't think anyone really thinks he was a paid spy for the Czechs - what on earth would they have gained?

    Surely the point is that the Czechs - i.e. a totalitarian communist state - were easily able to identify him as a fellow traveller?
    Not to mention that he was, is and looks happy to continue to be a propagandist and recipient of funds from Russia and Iran - two governments which in theory shouldn't even be his ideological cup of tea.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    bompington wrote:
    A lot of missing the point with the whole "Czech spy Corbyn" thing. I don't think anyone really thinks he was a paid spy for the Czechs - what on earth would they have gained?

    Surely the point is that the Czechs - i.e. a totalitarian communist state - were easily able to identify him as a fellow traveller?
    Not to mention that he was, is and looks happy to continue to be a propagandist and recipient of funds from Russia and Iran - two governments which in theory shouldn't even be his ideological cup of tea.

    But that is all old news or at least falls into the category of things you thought you knew already. Anybody already supporting him are not going to be swayed by this.
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    bompington wrote:
    A lot of missing the point with the whole "Czech spy Corbyn" thing. I don't think anyone really thinks he was a paid spy for the Czechs - what on earth would they have gained?

    Surely the point is that the Czechs - i.e. a totalitarian communist state - were easily able to identify him as a fellow traveller?
    Not to mention that he was, is and looks happy to continue to be a propagandist and recipient of funds from Russia and Iran - two governments which in theory shouldn't even be his ideological cup of tea.

    But nobody ever changes their minds about anything these days no matter how much ****** evidence
    FTFY
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    bompington wrote:
    A lot of missing the point with the whole "Czech spy Corbyn" thing. I don't think anyone really thinks he was a paid spy for the Czechs - what on earth would they have gained?

    Surely the point is that the Czechs - i.e. a totalitarian communist state - were easily able to identify him as a fellow traveller?
    Not to mention that he was, is and looks happy to continue to be a propagandist and recipient of funds from Russia and Iran - two governments which in theory shouldn't even be his ideological cup of tea.

    Just supposition Bomp, with again no evidence, any labour MP on the left would be seen as a person of interest but in the late 80s, the Czechs tied up with their own dissident movement of V.Havel...the Soviet union imploding.... really?

    Many MPs enjoy going on RT and getting paid for it, Tory and Labour, personally, they should nt or Iranian TV for that matter, they should be doing their job ie being an MP/Leader of the opposition but its not illegal.

    Much like stev0, you r letting your hatred of all things Corbyn distort your objectivity.
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    mamba80 wrote:
    Many MPs enjoy going on RT and getting paid for it
    Ah, I see, they're doing it for fun and extra cash. That figures. And actually, if you look at the list of MPs who have appeared, it's not a club any sane person would want to be in: Corbyn, Galloway, Farage, Davis, Livingstone (a big fan btw)...
    mamba80 wrote:
    Much like stev0, you r letting your hatred of all things Corbyn distort your objectivity.
    I think Corbyn has dodgy policies, possibly dodgy character, and definitely dodgy associations. But you are falling rather pathetically into the standard trap of modern political dialogue to assume from that that I hate him.
  • Jez mon
    Jez mon Posts: 3,809
    bompington wrote:
    A lot of missing the point with the whole "Czech spy Corbyn" thing. I don't think anyone really thinks he was a paid spy for the Czechs - what on earth would they have gained?

    Surely the point is that the Czechs - i.e. a totalitarian communist state - were easily able to identify him as a fellow traveller?
    Not to mention that he was, is and looks happy to continue to be a propagandist and recipient of funds from Russia and Iran - two governments which in theory shouldn't even be his ideological cup of tea.

    I thought the point was that both parties are an absolute shower at the moment. One leader left to wither in the spotlight by her party, and one who would be nigh on un-electable against vaguely competent opposition.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    i hope you ll be issuing a full page apology when this story turns out to be total cr@p ?
    i mean JC was low level back bench MP .... what exactly do you suppose he passed on to Czech intelligence? who btw say he was nt an informant,
    though perhaps its a sign of Mays desperation that she has got involved, she was home secretary for 6 years, with access to all the relevant MI5 files... yet there are none... wonder why...
    Well of course if Corbyn says he didn't do anything then that's good enough for you is it?

    I'm happy for anyone being caught passing on info to hostile nations and/or being members of extremist parties to be banned from office. On the latter point, that automatically disqualifies Corbyn and McDonnell by virtue of their position in the New Old Labour party :)

    Starting to sound a bit tin foil hat now, Stevo. If you want to see what a real Czech informant looks like, read up on Raymond Mawby

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Mawby

    ;)
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    bompington wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    Many MPs enjoy going on RT and getting paid for it
    Ah, I see, they're doing it for fun and extra cash. That figures. And actually, if you look at the list of MPs who have appeared, it's not a club any sane person would want to be in: Corbyn, Galloway, Farage, Davis, Livingstone (a big fan btw)...
    mamba80 wrote:
    Much like stev0, you r letting your hatred of all things Corbyn distort your objectivity.
    I think Corbyn has dodgy policies, possibly dodgy character, and definitely dodgy associations. But you are falling rather pathetically into the standard trap of modern political dialogue to assume from that that I hate him.


    Not only the Labour/ukip MP's you named but even more from the tory party, are they all soviet spies too? lol!

    https://politicalscrapbook.net/2017/10/ ... abour-mps/

    Corbyn may well be all the things you say but he isnt taking us out of the EU, putting the GFA at risk, (from the very dept designed to take us out of the EU) potentially wrecking the economy, paralysing government and making us a laughing stock throughout the world.

    as far as i m aware, you never posted a single positive thing about JC or Labour, so though hatred may be too strong a word, i ll suggest "strong dislike" if you prefer?
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    i hope you ll be issuing a full page apology when this story turns out to be total cr@p ?
    i mean JC was low level back bench MP .... what exactly do you suppose he passed on to Czech intelligence? who btw say he was nt an informant,
    though perhaps its a sign of Mays desperation that she has got involved, she was home secretary for 6 years, with access to all the relevant MI5 files... yet there are none... wonder why...
    Well of course if Corbyn says he didn't do anything then that's good enough for you is it?

    I'm happy for anyone being caught passing on info to hostile nations and/or being members of extremist parties to be banned from office. On the latter point, that automatically disqualifies Corbyn and McDonnell by virtue of their position in the New Old Labour party :)

    *cough* DUP *cough*
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,411
    rjsterry wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    i hope you ll be issuing a full page apology when this story turns out to be total cr@p ?
    i mean JC was low level back bench MP .... what exactly do you suppose he passed on to Czech intelligence? who btw say he was nt an informant,
    though perhaps its a sign of Mays desperation that she has got involved, she was home secretary for 6 years, with access to all the relevant MI5 files... yet there are none... wonder why...
    Well of course if Corbyn says he didn't do anything then that's good enough for you is it?

    I'm happy for anyone being caught passing on info to hostile nations and/or being members of extremist parties to be banned from office. On the latter point, that automatically disqualifies Corbyn and McDonnell by virtue of their position in the New Old Labour party :)

    Starting to sound a bit tin foil hat now, Stevo. If you want to see what a real Czech informant looks like, read up on Raymond Mawby

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Mawby

    ;)
    Not really.

    You're starting to sound like a Corbyn sympathizer.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • tangled_metal
    tangled_metal Posts: 4,021
    Corbyn isn't on power so can't take us out but correct me if I'm wrong he's committed Labour to uphold the referendum result so he's part of take us out surely? It's not like he's standing up for his principles and fighting to remain. I.believe he's a record on being against the EU. So keep quiet on it, let Tories take us out (like he really wants no doubt) then when it goes badly take advantage to win the GE perhaps? All he has to do is not to take too strong a view or comments.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    i hope you ll be issuing a full page apology when this story turns out to be total cr@p ?
    i mean JC was low level back bench MP .... what exactly do you suppose he passed on to Czech intelligence? who btw say he was nt an informant,
    though perhaps its a sign of Mays desperation that she has got involved, she was home secretary for 6 years, with access to all the relevant MI5 files... yet there are none... wonder why...
    Well of course if Corbyn says he didn't do anything then that's good enough for you is it?

    I'm happy for anyone being caught passing on info to hostile nations and/or being members of extremist parties to be banned from office. On the latter point, that automatically disqualifies Corbyn and McDonnell by virtue of their position in the New Old Labour party :)

    Starting to sound a bit tin foil hat now, Stevo. If you want to see what a real Czech informant looks like, read up on Raymond Mawby

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Mawby

    ;)
    Not really.

    You're starting to sound like a Corbyn sympathizer.

    No I just think there's plenty of substance to criticise him for, without needing to make things up.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    Corbyn isn't on power so can't take us out but correct me if I'm wrong he's committed Labour to uphold the referendum result so he's part of take us out surely? It's not like he's standing up for his principles and fighting to remain. I.believe he's a record on being against the EU. So keep quiet on it, let Tories take us out (like he really wants no doubt) then when it goes badly take advantage to win the GE perhaps? All he has to do is not to take too strong a view or comments.

    Even the Liberals are committed to up hold the result, thats not the question now, though i wish it were.

    JC has recently said he wants the UK to be in a CU, he needs to flesh this out, however, his job isnt to support the Tories or give them ideas is it? they got us into this mess, they r in power and they should sort it out or step aside.

    I dont know about you TM but i get the impression they have no real ideas about what they want, they ve plenty of things they dont ie SM, CU and ECJ but even this seems to change on a daily basis dependant on who is making the latest key note speech or whether the ERG raise their ugly head and extreme views.

    all very well trying to turn the spotlight onto Labour but we all need to focus on the Government, they have the nations future in their hands, brexit isnt something that can be reversed at the next GE, its for decades.
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    i hope you ll be issuing a full page apology when this story turns out to be total cr@p ?
    i mean JC was low level back bench MP .... what exactly do you suppose he passed on to Czech intelligence? who btw say he was nt an informant,
    though perhaps its a sign of Mays desperation that she has got involved, she was home secretary for 6 years, with access to all the relevant MI5 files... yet there are none... wonder why...
    Well of course if Corbyn says he didn't do anything then that's good enough for you is it?

    I'm happy for anyone being caught passing on info to hostile nations and/or being members of extremist parties to be banned from office. On the latter point, that automatically disqualifies Corbyn and McDonnell by virtue of their position in the New Old Labour party :)

    Starting to sound a bit tin foil hat now, Stevo. If you want to see what a real Czech informant looks like, read up on Raymond Mawby

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Mawby

    ;)
    Not really.

    You're starting to sound like a Corbyn sympathizer.

    Corbyn would make a far far better fist of Government than the current shower, even with his many faults but whether a Tory or Lab democratics should nt be supporting fake news.

    May also trying to smear JC, shows her lack of calibre.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    mamba80 wrote:
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    Corbyn isn't on power so can't take us out but correct me if I'm wrong he's committed Labour to uphold the referendum result so he's part of take us out surely? It's not like he's standing up for his principles and fighting to remain. I.believe he's a record on being against the EU. So keep quiet on it, let Tories take us out (like he really wants no doubt) then when it goes badly take advantage to win the GE perhaps? All he has to do is not to take too strong a view or comments.

    Even the Liberals are committed to up hold the result, thats not the question now, though i wish it were.

    JC has recently said he wants the UK to be in a CU, he needs to flesh this out, however, his job isnt to support the Tories or give them ideas is it? they got us into this mess, they r in power and they should sort it out or step aside.

    I dont know about you TM but i get the impression they have no real ideas about what they want, they ve plenty of things they dont ie SM, CU and ECJ but even this seems to change on a daily basis dependant on who is making the latest key note speech or whether the ERG raise their ugly head and extreme views.

    all very well trying to turn the spotlight onto Labour but we all need to focus on the Government, they have the nations future in their hands, brexit isnt something that can be reversed at the next GE, its for decades.

    I'd say he needs to stop worrying about whether this or that will help the Tories and think about what would be best for the country. Hoping the opposition will self-combust and you can win by default is not the strategy of a leader.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • shortfall
    shortfall Posts: 3,288
    mamba80 wrote:

    Corbyn would make a far far better fist of Government than the current shower, even with his many faults but whether a Tory or Lab democratics should nt be supporting fake news.
    .

    I'm no fan of May or the Conservatives but really? That's like having piles and reasoning that you'd be better off with herpes and having your legs amputated instead.
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    Shortfall wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:

    Corbyn would make a far far better fist of Government than the current shower, even with his many faults but whether a Tory or Lab democratics should nt be supporting fake news.
    .

    I'm no fan of May or the Conservatives but really? That's like having piles and reasoning that you'd be better off with herpes and having your legs amputated instead.

    Lol! i d say right now the UK has all 3....

    look at the NHS, education- no 23 in international maths tests, the housing crisis, adult social care (or lack of) the run down of defence, homelessness, road mtce, falls in std of living - low wages and rising inflation.

    Tory policies have utterly failed, austerity hasnt led to increased financial stability, the opposite is true.

    Last but certainly not least the disaster that is Brexit (another example of a weak tory party) the lack of policy, lack of leadership and splits in their party..... i really dont see how Labour would do worse.

    Personally, i d have back Margret Thatchers tory party than the sham we have now.
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    rjsterry wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    Corbyn isn't on power so can't take us out but correct me if I'm wrong he's committed Labour to uphold the referendum result so he's part of take us out surely? It's not like he's standing up for his principles and fighting to remain. I.believe he's a record on being against the EU. So keep quiet on it, let Tories take us out (like he really wants no doubt) then when it goes badly take advantage to win the GE perhaps? All he has to do is not to take too strong a view or comments.

    Even the Liberals are committed to up hold the result, thats not the question now, though i wish it were.

    JC has recently said he wants the UK to be in a CU, he needs to flesh this out, however, his job isnt to support the Tories or give them ideas is it? they got us into this mess, they r in power and they should sort it out or step aside.

    I dont know about you TM but i get the impression they have no real ideas about what they want, they ve plenty of things they dont ie SM, CU and ECJ but even this seems to change on a daily basis dependant on who is making the latest key note speech or whether the ERG raise their ugly head and extreme views.

    all very well trying to turn the spotlight onto Labour but we all need to focus on the Government, they have the nations future in their hands, brexit isnt something that can be reversed at the next GE, its for decades.

    I'd say he needs to stop worrying about whether this or that will help the Tories and think about what would be best for the country. Hoping the opposition will self-combust and you can win by default is not the strategy of a leader.

    He would argue that giving the tories the rope they need to hang themselves IS in the national interest? the danger is though that by saying little, he turns off his new found support.
  • shortfall
    shortfall Posts: 3,288
    mamba80 wrote:
    Shortfall wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:

    Corbyn would make a far far better fist of Government than the current shower, even with his many faults but whether a Tory or Lab democratics should nt be supporting fake news.
    .

    I'm no fan of May or the Conservatives but really? That's like having piles and reasoning that you'd be better off with herpes and having your legs amputated instead.

    Lol! i d say right now the UK has all 3....

    look at the NHS, education- no 23 in international maths tests, the housing crisis, adult social care (or lack of) the run down of defence, homelessness, road mtce, falls in std of living - low wages and rising inflation.

    Tory policies have utterly failed, austerity hasnt led to increased financial stability, the opposite is true.

    Last but certainly not least the disaster that is Brexit (another example of a weak tory party) the lack of policy, lack of leadership and splits in their party..... i really dont see how Labour would do worse.

    Personally, i d have back Margret Thatchers tory party than the sham we have now.

    Maybe. But if you think Jeremy Corbyn is the solution then you may be in for an unpleasant suprise.

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