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Coopster the 1st wrote:Society fails it responsibilities if it does not protect them from bias whether they are university educated or in infant education.
We rightly criticise universities if they implement bias via gender, ethnicity or background but political bias is allowed to go unquestioned. At least from this I can see who is a hypocrite.
Listen mate, Uni isnt like primary school and its very condescending of you to assume students need "protecting from this so called bias"
Brexit isnt even along political lines, plenty of Labour vote out, plenty of tory for remain, levels of education seem to be the overriding factor
Once you go down this "control and protect" sort of thing, you re on your way to dictatorship, such as we are seeing with China right now.0 -
Is that similar to Corbyn and McDonnell wanting to 'control and protect' industries like energy and railways?mamba80 wrote:Once you go down this "control and protect" sort of thing, you re on your way to dictatorship, such as we are seeing with China right now."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
Is that similar to Corbyn and McDonnell wanting to 'control and protect' industries like energy and railways?mamba80 wrote:Once you go down this "control and protect" sort of thing, you re on your way to dictatorship, such as we are seeing with China right now.
yep its exactly the same...... as May controlling energy prices.... trains will be next, it was housing today
Corbyn said the other day that Labour had moved the centre ground to their agenda... i thought that was rather ambitious but events seem to back him up.....0 -
Meanwhile back in the real world...mamba80 wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
Is that similar to Corbyn and McDonnell wanting to 'control and protect' industries like energy and railways?mamba80 wrote:Once you go down this "control and protect" sort of thing, you re on your way to dictatorship, such as we are seeing with China right now.
yep its exactly the same...... as May controlling energy prices.... trains will be next, it was housing today
Corbyn said the other day that Labour had moved the centre ground to their agenda... i thought that was rather ambitious but events seem to back him up....."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
Meanwhile back in the real world...mamba80 wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
Is that similar to Corbyn and McDonnell wanting to 'control and protect' industries like energy and railways?mamba80 wrote:Once you go down this "control and protect" sort of thing, you re on your way to dictatorship, such as we are seeing with China right now.
yep its exactly the same...... as May controlling energy prices.... trains will be next, it was housing today
Corbyn said the other day that Labour had moved the centre ground to their agenda... i thought that was rather ambitious but events seem to back him up.....
so, you ve lost this one then its all true, May is slowly but surely adopting policies and ideas first suggested by Labour and more recently JC, maybe not in their entirety but its a start!
even the vote on the final brexit deal was a labour demand.... though the tories seem to have rowed back a bit on that one!!!!0 -
this is what a lecturer was handing out to my daughter who spends £9k pa for him to be teaching engineering, not politics
Is he complaining about the £9k or the leaflet?“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
And still Labour are 'on the verge of power' - with the next general election due in 2022mamba80 wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
Meanwhile back in the real world...mamba80 wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
Is that similar to Corbyn and McDonnell wanting to 'control and protect' industries like energy and railways?mamba80 wrote:Once you go down this "control and protect" sort of thing, you re on your way to dictatorship, such as we are seeing with China right now.
yep its exactly the same...... as May controlling energy prices.... trains will be next, it was housing today
Corbyn said the other day that Labour had moved the centre ground to their agenda... i thought that was rather ambitious but events seem to back him up.....
so, you ve lost this one then its all true, May is slowly but surely adopting policies and ideas first suggested by Labour and more recently JC, maybe not in their entirety but its a start!
even the vote on the final brexit deal was a labour demand.... though the tories seem to have rowed back a bit on that one!!!!
Onwards leftie losers
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
And still Labour are 'on the verge of power' - with the next general election due in 2022mamba80 wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
Meanwhile back in the real world...mamba80 wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
Is that similar to Corbyn and McDonnell wanting to 'control and protect' industries like energy and railways?mamba80 wrote:Once you go down this "control and protect" sort of thing, you re on your way to dictatorship, such as we are seeing with China right now.
yep its exactly the same...... as May controlling energy prices.... trains will be next, it was housing today
Corbyn said the other day that Labour had moved the centre ground to their agenda... i thought that was rather ambitious but events seem to back him up.....
so, you ve lost this one then its all true, May is slowly but surely adopting policies and ideas first suggested by Labour and more recently JC, maybe not in their entirety but its a start!
even the vote on the final brexit deal was a labour demand.... though the tories seem to have rowed back a bit on that one!!!!
Onwards leftie losers
But they are winning
Under Cameron/Corbyn/May there has been a monumental shift in the middle ground
They are going to get their policies enacted without winning the election.0 -
This has been really blown out of proportion. An MP sent a stupid private letter on parliamentary stationary about a request for information academic institutions about Brexit (a topic that's highly emotive with some ppl). Information that really is irrelevant to the views that students are likely to have. These young adults will have more enlightened opinions than simply regurgitating the last leaflet or last thing someone in authority said.
Cooper - you are really denigrating students at university. I did go to university, twice, and everyone I met was generally grounded adults with the ability to debate and discuss their own opinions with the free thought commonly found among the educated.
Now I work with ppl who have never been to university (only two ppl other than myself have been or are going to university). Talking to them about any political topic is a revelation to me. Blinkered, uncritical thought, etc. Seriously a lack of education seriously gives them the inability to look into a topic deeply.
I have no problem with Brexit or remain voters who have the ability to debate the issues. However at work they were almost completely Brexit voters. Discussing it before the vote was like reading the daily mail but with less critical thought. They literally quoted the most idiotic arguments put out there, mostly on Facebook and Twitter from very right wing sources (such as the former leader of EDL). Things like voting remain will result in open borders with turkey and you'll get floods of ISIS fighters coming to Britain.
The interesting thing about my colleagues is how after the referendum and after reality kicked in they are almost all regretting voting leave. Seriously some arch brexiteers before the vote are saying we shouldn't have voted leave.
This is just a snapshot I have of two extremes of ability in critical thought. IMHO it doesn't mean anything other than I know some swivel eyed loons. Also that IME university students in my uni days could have been exposed to the most rampantly biased lecturer and have the critical thought processes and wherewithal to rip the lecturer to shreds if he /she tried to brainwash them.
This letter is pointless. It will find out nothing of importance even if academics supported it by answering his request fully. It doesn't however mean there's some Orwellian motive with it to intimidate academics to toe the Brexit line. That letter is the equivalent of spam. They should have thrown the letter away / deleted the email + blocked the sender. It was a ten second job to screw the letter up and practice your slam dunk skills into the waste paper bin.
Cooper etc al - you're wasting time discussing this. It's a pointless exercise by a politician. Ill advised but not worthy of pages and pages of discussion. I'm getting out of this pointless topic. Move on! There's nothing of importance here.0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
And still Labour are 'on the verge of power' - with the next general election due in 2022mamba80 wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
Meanwhile back in the real world...mamba80 wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
Is that similar to Corbyn and McDonnell wanting to 'control and protect' industries like energy and railways?mamba80 wrote:Once you go down this "control and protect" sort of thing, you re on your way to dictatorship, such as we are seeing with China right now.
yep its exactly the same...... as May controlling energy prices.... trains will be next, it was housing today
Corbyn said the other day that Labour had moved the centre ground to their agenda... i thought that was rather ambitious but events seem to back him up.....
so, you ve lost this one then its all true, May is slowly but surely adopting policies and ideas first suggested by Labour and more recently JC, maybe not in their entirety but its a start!
even the vote on the final brexit deal was a labour demand.... though the tories seem to have rowed back a bit on that one!!!!
Onwards leftie losers
Resorting to cheap jibs now... last election was due 2020... i d not bet on 2022 if i were you.
Bottom line is stevo, the tories are berift of new ideas, brexit has defined them, but so long as they enact Labour ones, whats not to like?0 -
Just because a blinkered old socialist says that the centre ground has moved is hardly a basis for being able to say that it has. And without winning a GE, he is still what he has always been. A loser.Surrey Commuter wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
And still Labour are 'on the verge of power' - with the next general election due in 2022mamba80 wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
Meanwhile back in the real world...mamba80 wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
Is that similar to Corbyn and McDonnell wanting to 'control and protect' industries like energy and railways?mamba80 wrote:Once you go down this "control and protect" sort of thing, you re on your way to dictatorship, such as we are seeing with China right now.
yep its exactly the same...... as May controlling energy prices.... trains will be next, it was housing today
Corbyn said the other day that Labour had moved the centre ground to their agenda... i thought that was rather ambitious but events seem to back him up.....
so, you ve lost this one then its all true, May is slowly but surely adopting policies and ideas first suggested by Labour and more recently JC, maybe not in their entirety but its a start!
even the vote on the final brexit deal was a labour demand.... though the tories seem to have rowed back a bit on that one!!!!
Onwards leftie losers
But they are winning
Under Cameron/Corbyn/May there has been a monumental shift in the middle ground
They are going to get their policies enacted without winning the election.
If you think that the Tories are enacting anything like what a Corbyn administration would do if it got into power then you're as deluded as mamba."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I'm hurt.. now i m deluded, which goes well with your inability to read.
"May is slowly but surely adopting policies and ideas first suggested by Labour and more recently JC, maybe not in their entirety but its a start!"
no-one has said that May is enacting a JC manifesto.0 -
Just as well really.mamba80 wrote:I'm hurt.. now i m deluded, which goes well with your inability to read.
"May is slowly but surely adopting policies and ideas first suggested by Labour and more recently JC, maybe not in their entirety but its a start!"
no-one has said that May is enacting a JC manifesto."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
Just as well really.mamba80 wrote:I'm hurt.. now i m deluded, which goes well with your inability to read.
"May is slowly but surely adopting policies and ideas first suggested by Labour and more recently JC, maybe not in their entirety but its a start!"
no-one has said that May is enacting a JC manifesto.
You did.....
One idea they ve got from Screaming Lord Sutch...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic ... cking.html
a whole new meaning to Cottage hospitals... folk too poorly to go home and look after themselves will be cared for in a residential property, without training, without med experience ... what could possibly go wrong????
cut beds cut some more beds, dont train enough nurses, cut community hospital beds and then stand back in amazement when the through put of patients suffers....0 -
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mamba80 wrote:
a whole new meaning to Cottage hospitals... folk too poorly to go home and look after themselves will be cared for in a residential property, without training, without med experience ... what could possibly go wrong????
Isn't that what people who do have families to help look after them would do out of choice to recuperate once they don't need trained medical help?0 -
KingstonGraham wrote:mamba80 wrote:
a whole new meaning to Cottage hospitals... folk too poorly to go home and look after themselves will be cared for in a residential property, without training, without med experience ... what could possibly go wrong????
Isn't that what people who do have families to help look after them would do out of choice to recuperate once they don't need trained medical help?
Irrelevant, the motives for giving good care to a much loved relative, is totally different than a random offering "care" for a £1k per month, a residential care home would have to confirm to all sorts of standards set down by the CQC, caring for a vulnerable and elderly person is a tiring and full time job.
Adult social care needs to be properly funded, the community hospital my mum stayed in, has closed because of a shortage of staff, brexit is making this far worse.0 -
mamba80 wrote:KingstonGraham wrote:mamba80 wrote:
a whole new meaning to Cottage hospitals... folk too poorly to go home and look after themselves will be cared for in a residential property, without training, without med experience ... what could possibly go wrong????
Isn't that what people who do have families to help look after them would do out of choice to recuperate once they don't need trained medical help?
Irrelevant, the motives for giving good care to a much loved relative, is totally different than a random offering "care" for a £1k per month, a residential care home would have to confirm to all sorts of standards set down by the CQC, caring for a vulnerable and elderly person is a tiring and full time job.
Adult social care needs to be properly funded, the community hospital my mum stayed in, has closed because of a shortage of staff, brexit is making this far worse.
Which is why it isn't intended for those people. "medically fit for discharge, who don't have any cognitive impairments."
I don't think it will work, because I don't think there will be takers for it at £50 a night. But that's another matter.0 -
KingstonGraham wrote:mamba80 wrote:KingstonGraham wrote:mamba80 wrote:
a whole new meaning to Cottage hospitals... folk too poorly to go home and look after themselves will be cared for in a residential property, without training, without med experience ... what could possibly go wrong????
Isn't that what people who do have families to help look after them would do out of choice to recuperate once they don't need trained medical help?
Irrelevant, the motives for giving good care to a much loved relative, is totally different than a random offering "care" for a £1k per month, a residential care home would have to confirm to all sorts of standards set down by the CQC, caring for a vulnerable and elderly person is a tiring and full time job.
Adult social care needs to be properly funded, the community hospital my mum stayed in, has closed because of a shortage of staff, brexit is making this far worse.
Which is why it isn't intended for those people. "medically fit for discharge, who don't have any cognitive impairments."
I don't think it will work, because I don't think there will be takers for it at £50 a night. But that's another matter.
Certainly worth a trial0 -
It is interesting. The Trust I used to work at were at one point considering a nearby hotel for much the same reason, with a community nursing attendance to assist in much the same way as those who would be discharged to family. It was shelved for much the same reasons here (potential bad publicity primarily) as well as there being no regular contact with the guest/patient unlike in a home environment.Surrey Commuter wrote:KingstonGraham wrote:mamba80 wrote:KingstonGraham wrote:mamba80 wrote:
a whole new meaning to Cottage hospitals... folk too poorly to go home and look after themselves will be cared for in a residential property, without training, without med experience ... what could possibly go wrong????
Isn't that what people who do have families to help look after them would do out of choice to recuperate once they don't need trained medical help?
Irrelevant, the motives for giving good care to a much loved relative, is totally different than a random offering "care" for a £1k per month, a residential care home would have to confirm to all sorts of standards set down by the CQC, caring for a vulnerable and elderly person is a tiring and full time job.
Adult social care needs to be properly funded, the community hospital my mum stayed in, has closed because of a shortage of staff, brexit is making this far worse.
Which is why it isn't intended for those people. "medically fit for discharge, who don't have any cognitive impairments."
I don't think it will work, because I don't think there will be takers for it at £50 a night. But that's another matter.
Certainly worth a trial0 -
KingstonGraham wrote:mamba80 wrote:KingstonGraham wrote:mamba80 wrote:
a whole new meaning to Cottage hospitals... folk too poorly to go home and look after themselves will be cared for in a residential property, without training, without med experience ... what could possibly go wrong????
Isn't that what people who do have families to help look after them would do out of choice to recuperate once they don't need trained medical help?
Irrelevant, the motives for giving good care to a much loved relative, is totally different than a random offering "care" for a £1k per month, a residential care home would have to confirm to all sorts of standards set down by the CQC, caring for a vulnerable and elderly person is a tiring and full time job.
Adult social care needs to be properly funded, the community hospital my mum stayed in, has closed because of a shortage of staff, brexit is making this far worse.
Which is why it isn't intended for those people. "medically fit for discharge, who don't have any cognitive impairments."
I don't think it will work, because I don't think there will be takers for it at £50 a night. But that's another matter.
i dont think you realise how low a bar that is.
now here is an idea... how about upping carers allowance so that those families who would love to help but cant because they need a job, get suitable compensation?
Or even better, fund residential and nursing care homes properly and home visit staff a decent wage so they dont leave the profession? instead of trying it all on the cheap.0 -
mamba80 wrote:KingstonGraham wrote:mamba80 wrote:KingstonGraham wrote:mamba80 wrote:
a whole new meaning to Cottage hospitals... folk too poorly to go home and look after themselves will be cared for in a residential property, without training, without med experience ... what could possibly go wrong????
Isn't that what people who do have families to help look after them would do out of choice to recuperate once they don't need trained medical help?
Irrelevant, the motives for giving good care to a much loved relative, is totally different than a random offering "care" for a £1k per month, a residential care home would have to confirm to all sorts of standards set down by the CQC, caring for a vulnerable and elderly person is a tiring and full time job.
Adult social care needs to be properly funded, the community hospital my mum stayed in, has closed because of a shortage of staff, brexit is making this far worse.
Which is why it isn't intended for those people. "medically fit for discharge, who don't have any cognitive impairments."
I don't think it will work, because I don't think there will be takers for it at £50 a night. But that's another matter.
i dont think you realise how low a bar that is.
now here is an idea... how about upping carers allowance so that those families who would love to help but cant because they need a job, get suitable compensation?
Or even better, fund residential and nursing care homes properly and home visit staff a decent wage so they dont leave the profession? instead of trying it all on the cheap.
Yeah before Brexit we had any number of EU nationals beating a path to wipe arses for feck all money whilst living in a shared house with ten other folk doing the same. Imagine a system where the government controls immigration to let in those with skills it needs and then pays everyone a wage they can live on with basic services that would make living in the country bearable or if we have more ambition nice. In fairness to the bold Theresa she did propose some changes to peoples ability to pass on inheritance to pay for their care but they pretty much told her to jog on at the last election. I think it was the dementia tax which was similar in naming convention to the bedroom tax. I am waiting for the next general election so we can have another few well named taxes.0 -
mamba80 wrote:KingstonGraham wrote:mamba80 wrote:KingstonGraham wrote:mamba80 wrote:
a whole new meaning to Cottage hospitals... folk too poorly to go home and look after themselves will be cared for in a residential property, without training, without med experience ... what could possibly go wrong????
Isn't that what people who do have families to help look after them would do out of choice to recuperate once they don't need trained medical help?
Irrelevant, the motives for giving good care to a much loved relative, is totally different than a random offering "care" for a £1k per month, a residential care home would have to confirm to all sorts of standards set down by the CQC, caring for a vulnerable and elderly person is a tiring and full time job.
Adult social care needs to be properly funded, the community hospital my mum stayed in, has closed because of a shortage of staff, brexit is making this far worse.
Which is why it isn't intended for those people. "medically fit for discharge, who don't have any cognitive impairments."
I don't think it will work, because I don't think there will be takers for it at £50 a night. But that's another matter.
i dont think you realise how low a bar that is.
now here is an idea... how about upping carers allowance so that those families who would love to help but cant because they need a job, get suitable compensation?
Or even better, fund residential and nursing care homes properly and home visit staff a decent wage so they dont leave the profession? instead of trying it all on the cheap.
The things you are highlighting are serving different needs to this proposal.0 -
Clearly doesn't matter, the magic money tree will take care of it all :?KingstonGraham wrote:mamba80 wrote:now here is an idea... how about upping carers allowance so that those families who would love to help but cant because they need a job, get suitable compensation?
Or even better, fund residential and nursing care homes properly and home visit staff a decent wage so they dont leave the profession? instead of trying it all on the cheap.
The things you are highlighting are serving different needs to this proposal.0 -
bompington wrote:
Clearly doesn't matter, the magic money tree will take care of it all :?KingstonGraham wrote:mamba80 wrote:now here is an idea... how about upping carers allowance so that those families who would love to help but cant because they need a job, get suitable compensation?
Or even better, fund residential and nursing care homes properly and home visit staff a decent wage so they dont leave the profession? instead of trying it all on the cheap.
The things you are highlighting are serving different needs to this proposal.
Bed blocking costs about a billion per year, delays ops and causes distress to people who could live in their own homes IF the help was available, invest in home care and council run not for profit nursing homes.
what i hi lighted is exactly why they are doing this trial.
May has abandoned the "there is no magic money tree" she has found a veritable orchard of them lol!0 -
mamba80 wrote:bompington wrote:
Clearly doesn't matter, the magic money tree will take care of it all :?KingstonGraham wrote:mamba80 wrote:now here is an idea... how about upping carers allowance so that those families who would love to help but cant because they need a job, get suitable compensation?
Or even better, fund residential and nursing care homes properly and home visit staff a decent wage so they dont leave the profession? instead of trying it all on the cheap.
The things you are highlighting are serving different needs to this proposal.
Bed blocking costs about a billion per year, delays ops and causes distress to people who could live in their own homes IF the help was available, invest in home care and council run not for profit nursing homes.
what i hi lighted is exactly why they are doing this trial.
May has abandoned the "there is no magic money tree" she has found a veritable orchard of them lol!
No, this trial is intended to be part of the solution to part of the problem of people staying in hospitals when they don't need to be there. As long as no one thinks that it is the whole solution to the whole problem, I can't see the problem with trying it.0 -
KingstonGraham wrote:mamba80 wrote:bompington wrote:
Clearly doesn't matter, the magic money tree will take care of it all :?KingstonGraham wrote:mamba80 wrote:now here is an idea... how about upping carers allowance so that those families who would love to help but cant because they need a job, get suitable compensation?
Or even better, fund residential and nursing care homes properly and home visit staff a decent wage so they dont leave the profession? instead of trying it all on the cheap.
The things you are highlighting are serving different needs to this proposal.
Bed blocking costs about a billion per year, delays ops and causes distress to people who could live in their own homes IF the help was available, invest in home care and council run not for profit nursing homes.
what i hi lighted is exactly why they are doing this trial.
May has abandoned the "there is no magic money tree" she has found a veritable orchard of them lol!
No, this trial is intended to be part of the solution to part of the problem of people staying in hospitals when they don't need to be there. As long as no one thinks that it is the whole solution to the whole problem, I can't see the problem with trying it.
Dont really understand why you cant see cause and effect here, they are only stuck in hospital because there are not enough residential care homes and not enough home care staff, they are still poorly and cannot look after themselves.
its a non starter as a scheme to solve this problem, its also grossly unfair to families who do the "right thing" give up work at some considerable cost, look after elderly relatives and get very little.0 -
good on Fallon, just a few more to go and we ll have another GE.0
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Like Honey Bunny in Pulp Fiction, "what is it?" that he deems so naughty in his past that he resigns? After all was he not consulting m'learned friends this morning about the hand on knee stuff?mamba80 wrote:good on Fallon, just a few more to go and we ll have another GE.
Is like going back to the early 90s with Tory politicians unable to keep their d1cks zipped in.0 -
orraloon wrote:
Like Honey Bunny in Pulp Fiction, "what is it?" that he deems so naughty in his past that he resigns? After all was he not consulting m'learned friends this morning about the hand on knee stuff?mamba80 wrote:good on Fallon, just a few more to go and we ll have another GE.
Is like going back to the early 90s with Tory politicians unable to keep their d1cks zipped in.
what on earth is he guilty of? obv nothing he can just deny and instruct a libel firm, though who would do that lol?
events yet again.0
