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Comments
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Coopster the 1st wrote:bompington wrote:
It's funny, the totalitarian threat implied in the letter is so aligned with your own way of thinking it's transparent to you, isn't it?Coopster the 1st wrote:It's everyone's business if the subject matter is political. That an MP asks the question on behalf of the electorate is the MP doing his job.
In the same way I would have no problem a Labour MP asking, say Oxford, for the political syllabus covering the Thatcher years or a conservative MP asking for the same for the Blair years.
The institutions that provide education, civil service, military, etc should avoid political bias while performing their job functions and be accountable to that at any time. Allowing these institutions to go unchecked regarding political bias risks there being future problems.
As I said, with Brexit still in its infancy there should be little material to lecture on this matter and this would have been the mature response I would expect from these institutions, rather than what we got which comes across as if they have something to hide.
You have to admire the strategy of making an outrageous demand for information and then when they do not immediately comply condemn them as having something to hide.
These traitors need to be found and dealt with.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:
So you are comfortable with politicians deciding what is politically biased?Coopster the 1st wrote:bompington wrote:
It's funny, the totalitarian threat implied in the letter is so aligned with your own way of thinking it's transparent to you, isn't it?Coopster the 1st wrote:It's everyone's business if the subject matter is political. That an MP asks the question on behalf of the electorate is the MP doing his job.
In the same way I would have no problem a Labour MP asking, say Oxford, for the political syllabus covering the Thatcher years or a conservative MP asking for the same for the Blair years.
The institutions that provide education, civil service, military, etc should avoid political bias while performing their job functions and be accountable to that at any time. Allowing these institutions to go unchecked regarding political bias risks there being future problems.
As I said, with Brexit still in its infancy there should be little material to lecture on this matter and this would have been the mature response I would expect from these institutions, rather than what we got which comes across as if they have something to hide.
If there is no bias, it will be a non-story, a non-event, as this could have been. However they are either trying to make political gain from this or have something to hide. Which is it in your opinion?
Why is holding universities to account on their political bias any different to questioning their gender bias or ethnicity bias?0 -
Coopster the 1st wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Coopster the 1st wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Presume Tories who crow about current Labour’s affinity or softness on communism are eminently comfortable with their own MPs wanting lists of lecturers who cover Brexit & their material.
Let alone the fact the w*nker won’t even pay his tuition fee for all the work.
Can you imagine their outcry if it was a Labour MP asking?
The outcry is mainly from those who have been exposed by this letter.
Their response demonstrates they have something to hide. Why is that?
As Brexit has not happened yet(you keep reminding us that!), there cannot be much material for lectures on this. Unless they are using lectures to further their political beliefs rather than providing balance. It's not like it is obvious that universities have an anti-conservative and anti-Brexit bias.
As one MP said, the response to letter shows the universities have been 'rumbled'
Why do you think what is taught at universities is MP business?
It's everyone's business if the subject matter is political. That an MP asks the question on behalf of the electorate is the MP doing his job.
In the same way I would have no problem a Labour MP asking, say Oxford, for the political syllabus covering the Thatcher years or a conservative MP asking for the same for the Blair years.
Rumbled? For what? What is it that universities might teach that you are so worried about? Are you afraid that students might develop ideas that you don't agree with? What a terrifying thought! This must be stopped!1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Lenin, 1918"Education is one of the component parts of the struggle we are now waging. We can counter hypocrisy and lies with the complete and honest truth. The war has shown plainly enough what the "will of the majority" means, a phrase used as a cover by the bourgeoisie. It has shown that a handful of plutocrats drag whole nations to the slaughter in their own interests."0
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rjsterry wrote:Coopster the 1st wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Coopster the 1st wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Presume Tories who crow about current Labour’s affinity or softness on communism are eminently comfortable with their own MPs wanting lists of lecturers who cover Brexit & their material.
Let alone the fact the w*nker won’t even pay his tuition fee for all the work.
Can you imagine their outcry if it was a Labour MP asking?
The outcry is mainly from those who have been exposed by this letter.
Their response demonstrates they have something to hide. Why is that?
As Brexit has not happened yet(you keep reminding us that!), there cannot be much material for lectures on this. Unless they are using lectures to further their political beliefs rather than providing balance. It's not like it is obvious that universities have an anti-conservative and anti-Brexit bias.
As one MP said, the response to letter shows the universities have been 'rumbled'
Why do you think what is taught at universities is MP business?
It's everyone's business if the subject matter is political. That an MP asks the question on behalf of the electorate is the MP doing his job.
In the same way I would have no problem a Labour MP asking, say Oxford, for the political syllabus covering the Thatcher years or a conservative MP asking for the same for the Blair years.
Rumbled? For what? What is it that universities might teach that you are so worried about? Are you afraid that students might develop ideas that you don't agree with? What a terrifying thought! This must be stopped!
How about allowing students to develop their own views without the political bias of their lecturers?
'Rumbled' because they using the faux outrage as a diversionary tactic. They've been caught with their pants down!
Of course they could prove this is incorrect by publishing the information. Novel idea but we both know it will never happen as they have been 'rumbled'
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No, he's comfortable with politicians who are aligned with his views deciding what is politically biasedRick Chasey wrote:
So you are comfortable with politicians deciding what is politically biased?Coopster the 1st wrote:bompington wrote:
It's funny, the totalitarian threat implied in the letter is so aligned with your own way of thinking it's transparent to you, isn't it?Coopster the 1st wrote:It's everyone's business if the subject matter is political. That an MP asks the question on behalf of the electorate is the MP doing his job.
In the same way I would have no problem a Labour MP asking, say Oxford, for the political syllabus covering the Thatcher years or a conservative MP asking for the same for the Blair years.
The institutions that provide education, civil service, military, etc should avoid political bias while performing their job functions and be accountable to that at any time. Allowing these institutions to go unchecked regarding political bias risks there being future problems.
As I said, with Brexit still in its infancy there should be little material to lecture on this matter and this would have been the mature response I would expect from these institutions, rather than what we got which comes across as if they have something to hide.0 -
Coopster the 1st wrote:rjsterry wrote:Coopster the 1st wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Coopster the 1st wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Presume Tories who crow about current Labour’s affinity or softness on communism are eminently comfortable with their own MPs wanting lists of lecturers who cover Brexit & their material.
Let alone the fact the w*nker won’t even pay his tuition fee for all the work.
Can you imagine their outcry if it was a Labour MP asking?
The outcry is mainly from those who have been exposed by this letter.
Their response demonstrates they have something to hide. Why is that?
As Brexit has not happened yet(you keep reminding us that!), there cannot be much material for lectures on this. Unless they are using lectures to further their political beliefs rather than providing balance. It's not like it is obvious that universities have an anti-conservative and anti-Brexit bias.
As one MP said, the response to letter shows the universities have been 'rumbled'
Why do you think what is taught at universities is MP business?
It's everyone's business if the subject matter is political. That an MP asks the question on behalf of the electorate is the MP doing his job.
In the same way I would have no problem a Labour MP asking, say Oxford, for the political syllabus covering the Thatcher years or a conservative MP asking for the same for the Blair years.
Rumbled? For what? What is it that universities might teach that you are so worried about? Are you afraid that students might develop ideas that you don't agree with? What a terrifying thought! This must be stopped!
How about allowing students to develop their own views without the political bias of their lecturers?
'Rumbled' because they using the faux outrage as a diversionary tactic. They've been caught with their pants down!
Of course they could prove this is incorrect by publishing the information. Novel idea but we both know it will never happen as they have been 'rumbled'
why do you not write 'rumbled' as rumbled?0 -
Coopster the 1st wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Coopster the 1st wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Presume Tories who crow about current Labour’s affinity or softness on communism are eminently comfortable with their own MPs wanting lists of lecturers who cover Brexit & their material.
Let alone the fact the w*nker won’t even pay his tuition fee for all the work.
Can you imagine their outcry if it was a Labour MP asking?
The outcry is mainly from those who have been exposed by this letter.
Their response demonstrates they have something to hide. Why is that?
As Brexit has not happened yet(you keep reminding us that!), there cannot be much material for lectures on this. Unless they are using lectures to further their political beliefs rather than providing balance. It's not like it is obvious that universities have an anti-conservative and anti-Brexit bias.
As one MP said, the response to letter shows the universities have been 'rumbled'
Why do you think what is taught at universities is MP business?
It's everyone's business if the subject matter is political. That an MP asks the question on behalf of the electorate is the MP doing his job.
In the same way I would have no problem a Labour MP asking, say Oxford, for the political syllabus covering the Thatcher years or a conservative MP asking for the same for the Blair years.
He is a Government minister and he is a member of the European Research group..... if a valid constituent asks his MP for this information, fair enough, but we have to ask why in this case? as student fee s are reduced or frozen, Uni's may well need more Gov funding, perhaps dependant on their views on Brexit?
If it genuinely is for his new book, he should be asking as a private member of the public, not on Commons paper.
Its not about "something to hide" at all, Academics have always enjoyed the freedom to lecture what the hell they like, the students can make their own minds up, as they ve done so over the decades....this isnt a primary school teacher indoctrinating their class of 5 yo 's,
You might not like it, but the higher up the educational ladder you are, the more likely you d have voted to remain.0 -
mamba80 wrote:Coopster the 1st wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Coopster the 1st wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Presume Tories who crow about current Labour’s affinity or softness on communism are eminently comfortable with their own MPs wanting lists of lecturers who cover Brexit & their material.
Let alone the fact the w*nker won’t even pay his tuition fee for all the work.
Can you imagine their outcry if it was a Labour MP asking?
The outcry is mainly from those who have been exposed by this letter.
Their response demonstrates they have something to hide. Why is that?
As Brexit has not happened yet(you keep reminding us that!), there cannot be much material for lectures on this. Unless they are using lectures to further their political beliefs rather than providing balance. It's not like it is obvious that universities have an anti-conservative and anti-Brexit bias.
As one MP said, the response to letter shows the universities have been 'rumbled'
Why do you think what is taught at universities is MP business?
It's everyone's business if the subject matter is political. That an MP asks the question on behalf of the electorate is the MP doing his job.
In the same way I would have no problem a Labour MP asking, say Oxford, for the political syllabus covering the Thatcher years or a conservative MP asking for the same for the Blair years.
He is a Government minister and he is a member of the European Research group..... if a valid constituent asks his MP for this information, fair enough, but we have to ask why in this case? as student fee s are reduced or frozen, Uni's may well need more Gov funding, perhaps dependant on their views on Brexit?
If it genuinely is for his new book, he should be asking as a private member of the public, not on Commons paper.
Its not about "something to hide" at all, Academics have always enjoyed the freedom to lecture what the hell they like, the students can make their own minds up, as they ve done so over the decades....this isnt a primary school teacher indoctrinating their class of 5 yo 's,
You might not like it, but the higher up the educational ladder you are, the more likely you d have voted to remain.
somebody should check that he did not use the HoP to post this for free0 -
mamba80 wrote:He is a Government minister and he is a member of the European Research group..... if a valid constituent asks his MP for this information, fair enough, but we have to ask why in this case? as student fee s are reduced or frozen, Uni's may well need more Gov funding, perhaps dependant on their views on Brexit?
Their views should be neutral and free from political bias. Or are you happy for the Universities to sell out their views to the highest bidder for their funding?mamba80 wrote:If it genuinely is for his new book, he should be asking as a private member of the public, not on Commons paper.
He is in a position that means his letter will be read/responded to, rather than filed in the bin. It shouldn't be the case but this is reality.mamba80 wrote:Its not about "something to hide" at all, Academics have always enjoyed the freedom to lecture what the hell they like, the students can make their own minds up, as they ve done so over the decades....this isnt a primary school teacher indoctrinating their class of 5 yo 's,
So you would support a lecture on the positives of ISIS and letting the academics make up their own mind? Hypocrite!mamba80 wrote:You might not like it, but the higher up the educational ladder you are, the more likely you d have voted to remain.
As they mature and earn more, so will their views mature and they will become conservative and see the positives of Brexit despite what they were told when they were at an impressionable age.0 -
Coopster the 1st wrote:As they mature and earn more, so will their views mature and they will become conservative and see the positives of Brexit despite what they were told when they were at an impressionable age.
Or not. We'll find out over the next 20 years.0 -
Over the top!
Sorry but the universities should be teaching critical thought among students. How to argue their point. As part of that they can teach whatever political viewpoint they want. Heck they can even argue for the caliphate of they want. But if they do that they must be damn sure they have a good reason why.
As far as the MPs letter. Unfortunately I couldn't read it on my phone screen. What exactly is he asking for? Is it what classes teach Brexit? Who teaches Brexit? Or what do they teach about Brexit?
Reason I ask that is what good or ill can come of the requested information? The number of classes that mention Brexit could be huge but what harm are they really doing? Do you honestly think that by bringing up Brexit in a lecture or tutorial debate they're taking sides and trying to indoctrinate what should be among the brightest ppl of their generation to their political views? Do you know what paranoia is? Surely they should be bright enough to make their own minds up. Perhaps that's the problem. Ppl who are clever such as most students at good universities tend to be more for remain in the referendum past. Don't you like that Coopster?
Just accept that the mp was an idiot with that request. Even his own party leader thinks that. I don't think he's had many supporters from his own party.0 -
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David,
I was wondering if you would be so kind as to supply me with the names of professors at your establishment who are involved in the teaching of European affairs, with particular reference to Brexit.
Furthermore, if I could be provided with a copy of the syllabus and links to the online lectures which relate to this area I would be much obliged.
I sincerely hope you are able to provide me with such and I look forward to hearing from you in due course.
Yours sincerely, Chris
It's not exactly a demand, is it?0 -
KingstonGraham wrote:David,
I was wondering if you would be so kind as to supply me with the names of professors at your establishment who are involved in the teaching of European affairs, with particular reference to Brexit.
Furthermore, if I could be provided with a copy of the syllabus and links to the online lectures which relate to this area I would be much obliged.
I sincerely hope you are able to provide me with such and I look forward to hearing from you in due course.
Yours sincerely, Chris
It's not exactly a demand, is it?
Has a different feel when it's on Westminster paper, from his office, wouldn't you say?0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:KingstonGraham wrote:David,
I was wondering if you would be so kind as to supply me with the names of professors at your establishment who are involved in the teaching of European affairs, with particular reference to Brexit.
Furthermore, if I could be provided with a copy of the syllabus and links to the online lectures which relate to this area I would be much obliged.
I sincerely hope you are able to provide me with such and I look forward to hearing from you in due course.
Yours sincerely, Chris
It's not exactly a demand, is it?
Has a different feel when it's on Westminster paper, from his office, wouldn't you say?
Somewhat, but still 100% binnable.0 -
I would have thought that any university covering politics, economics or current affairs today NOT discussing Brexit should be questioned.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Tangled Metal wrote:Over the top!
Sorry but the universities should be teaching critical thought among students. How to argue their point. As part of that they can teach whatever political viewpoint they want. Heck they can even argue for the caliphate of they want. But if they do that they must be damn sure they have a good reason why.
As far as the MPs letter. Unfortunately I couldn't read it on my phone screen. What exactly is he asking for? Is it what classes teach Brexit? Who teaches Brexit? Or what do they teach about Brexit?
Reason I ask that is what good or ill can come of the requested information? The number of classes that mention Brexit could be huge but what harm are they really doing? Do you honestly think that by bringing up Brexit in a lecture or tutorial debate they're taking sides and trying to indoctrinate what should be among the brightest ppl of their generation to their political views? Do you know what paranoia is? Surely they should be bright enough to make their own minds up. Perhaps that's the problem. Ppl who are clever such as most students at good universities tend to be more for remain in the referendum past. Don't you like that Coopster?
Just accept that the mp was an idiot with that request. Even his own party leader thinks that. I don't think he's had many supporters from his own party.
Now others have linked to the letter, you can see the request was quite specific and a perfectly reasonable request.
Young people are impressionable. Just look at how they can be manipulated by advertising if you want a basic example. They don't yet have the wisdom and experience that comes with age hence they are more likely to believe what they are told rather than think for themselves. Society fails it responsibilities if it does not protect them from bias whether they are university educated or in infant education.
We rightly criticise universities if they implement bias via gender, ethnicity or background but political bias is allowed to go unquestioned. At least from this I can see who is a hypocrite.0 -
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KingstonGraham wrote:Coopster the 1st wrote:As they mature and earn more, so will their views mature and they will become conservative and see the positives of Brexit despite what they were told when they were at an impressionable age.
Or not. We'll find out over the next 20 years.
Will not take that long. We just need one parliament of a labour government to make them Tory voters for life. This will also teach them to think for themselves on political matters and question whether what politicians say are really in theirs and the country's best interest.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:You haven't been to uni have you coopster?
No. Student debt was the reason why I decided against further education.
It gives you a different perspective on those who have and have not.0 -
What was it about the student debt that put you off?
That you didn't have to pay it off when you didn't earn enough to be able to afford it, or that you had to pay it off when you could?
If only there was something that could mean EVERYONE goes to university.
Like, y'know, free university.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:What was it about the student debt that put you off?
That you didn't have to pay it off when you didn't earn enough to be able to afford it, or that you had to pay it off when you could?
The amount involved was a scary amount for someone at that age.
In hindsight, it was the right decision as it meant I gained 3 years working knowledge and experience in my career that I would have been playing catch-up on had I chosen to go. I lucked out on my timing with this as it was a boom time but I put the hard work in to make the most of this.
The subject area I would have chosen is likely to have been wrong for me
The only negative I see from this decision are the connections that are established during your time at Uni.0 -
Coopster the 1st wrote:mamba80 wrote:
So you would support a lecture on the positives of ISIS and letting the academics make up their own mind? Hypocrite!mamba80 wrote:You might not like it, but the higher up the educational ladder you are, the more likely you d have voted to remain.
As they mature and earn more, so will their views mature and they will become conservative and see the positives of Brexit despite what they were told when they were at an impressionable age.
Students in this country have a history of protest at things they dont like and i m sure, if an Academic promoted the vitues of iSil, they d be up roar but so long as they are nt inciting violence or hatred, they should be allowed too.
on your last point... the elderly were more likely to vote brexit true (though not the elderly who went to uni) but that might be because they are already suffering from undiagnosed dementia? long term memory is the lst to go, so understandable they d remember the Britain of yesteryear and hark but to those golden days
how old are you? 0 -
Coopster the 1st wrote:
Without being too cod psychological about it, I would guess that there is a correlation to people thinking what this MP did as OK and not attending university.0 -
Caught doing what? You're alleging that lecturers (whom you have assumed are all anti-Brexit) are somehow indoctrinating students with their views. But you provide zero evidence of this, so I don't see how they have been caught doing anything. If you had been to university you'd realise that what you are alleging is practically impossible.Coopster the 1st wrote:rjsterry wrote:Coopster the 1st wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Coopster the 1st wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Presume Tories who crow about current Labour’s affinity or softness on communism are eminently comfortable with their own MPs wanting lists of lecturers who cover Brexit & their material.
Let alone the fact the w*nker won’t even pay his tuition fee for all the work.
Can you imagine their outcry if it was a Labour MP asking?
The outcry is mainly from those who have been exposed by this letter.
Their response demonstrates they have something to hide. Why is that?
As Brexit has not happened yet(you keep reminding us that!), there cannot be much material for lectures on this. Unless they are using lectures to further their political beliefs rather than providing balance. It's not like it is obvious that universities have an anti-conservative and anti-Brexit bias.
As one MP said, the response to letter shows the universities have been 'rumbled'
Why do you think what is taught at universities is MP business?
It's everyone's business if the subject matter is political. That an MP asks the question on behalf of the electorate is the MP doing his job.
In the same way I would have no problem a Labour MP asking, say Oxford, for the political syllabus covering the Thatcher years or a conservative MP asking for the same for the Blair years.
Rumbled? For what? What is it that universities might teach that you are so worried about? Are you afraid that students might develop ideas that you don't agree with? What a terrifying thought! This must be stopped!
How about allowing students to develop their own views without the political bias of their lecturers?
'Rumbled' because they using the faux outrage as a diversionary tactic. They've been caught with their pants down!
Of course they could prove this is incorrect by publishing the information. Novel idea but we both know it will never happen as they have been 'rumbled'1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
rjsterry wrote:
Caught doing what? You're alleging that lecturers (whom you have assumed are all anti-Brexit) are somehow indoctrinating students with their views. But you provide zero evidence of this. If you had been to university you'd realise that what you are alleging is practically impossible.Coopster the 1st wrote:rjsterry wrote:Coopster the 1st wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Coopster the 1st wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Presume Tories who crow about current Labour’s affinity or softness on communism are eminently comfortable with their own MPs wanting lists of lecturers who cover Brexit & their material.
Let alone the fact the w*nker won’t even pay his tuition fee for all the work.
Can you imagine their outcry if it was a Labour MP asking?
The outcry is mainly from those who have been exposed by this letter.
Their response demonstrates they have something to hide. Why is that?
As Brexit has not happened yet(you keep reminding us that!), there cannot be much material for lectures on this. Unless they are using lectures to further their political beliefs rather than providing balance. It's not like it is obvious that universities have an anti-conservative and anti-Brexit bias.
As one MP said, the response to letter shows the universities have been 'rumbled'
Why do you think what is taught at universities is MP business?
It's everyone's business if the subject matter is political. That an MP asks the question on behalf of the electorate is the MP doing his job.
In the same way I would have no problem a Labour MP asking, say Oxford, for the political syllabus covering the Thatcher years or a conservative MP asking for the same for the Blair years.
Rumbled? For what? What is it that universities might teach that you are so worried about? Are you afraid that students might develop ideas that you don't agree with? What a terrifying thought! This must be stopped!
How about allowing students to develop their own views without the political bias of their lecturers?
'Rumbled' because they using the faux outrage as a diversionary tactic. They've been caught with their pants down!
Of course they could prove this is incorrect by publishing the information. Novel idea but we both know it will never happen as they have been 'rumbled'
Their response to this is typical of someone trying to hide something. I've not said they are all anti-Brexit but their response implies they have been caught out.
Your argument fails because the MP in question did go to university. They've sensationalised this to make political gain or create a diversion. Now, because of their reaction many more people, like myself, are asking what are they hiding? I'm sure the media are now asking/researching the same information to bring it to the public attention.
I hope they are not hiding anything and their response was just for political gain otherwise this is going to open a huge can of worms for the establishment.0 -
rjsterry wrote:Caught doing what? You're alleging that lecturers (whom you have assumed are all anti-Brexit) are somehow indoctrinating students with their views. But you provide zero evidence of this, so I don't see how they have been caught doing anything. If you had been to university you'd realise that what you are alleging is practically impossible.
Whoops!
https://twitter.com/scullyp/status/922824988104839168this is what a lecturer was handing out to my daughter who spends £9k pa for him to be teaching engineering, not politics0 -
They're handing out FLYERS!! Are there no depths to which they will not stoop? When I think of how many pizza and curry flyers have been stuffed through my letterbox it's a wonder I'm still alive.Coopster the 1st wrote:rjsterry wrote:Caught doing what? You're alleging that lecturers (whom you have assumed are all anti-Brexit) are somehow indoctrinating students with their views. But you provide zero evidence of this, so I don't see how they have been caught doing anything. If you had been to university you'd realise that what you are alleging is practically impossible.
Whoops!
https://twitter.com/scullyp/status/922824988104839168this is what a lecturer was handing out to my daughter who spends £9k pa for him to be teaching engineering, not politics1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
