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  • john80
    john80 Posts: 2,965
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    UK politics is basically mental.

    DMPrBMCXkAA4FS3.jpg

    There is certainly a strong argument for a tax code less than 100 pages long. Any longer and pet politicians projects can be put in.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    john80 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    UK politics is basically mental.

    There is certainly a strong argument for a tax code less than 100 pages long. Any longer and pet politicians projects can be put in.

    I don't think it was pet badgers.
  • tangled_metal
    tangled_metal Posts: 4,021
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    @Rick and TM - I picked the Guardian as one article of several on on quick search and to avoid the usual charges of right wing media bias. Here's a few more if you want:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/9600467/Why-the-IMF-has-got-it-so-hopelessly-wrong-on-the-euro-crisis.html
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10881540/IMF-accepts-it-was-wrong-on-George-Osbornes-austerity.html
    https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/uncategorized/imf-forecasts-are-always-wrong-this-spectacularly-so/
    https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2014/10/07/1997772/moneysupply-imf-getting-it-wrong-again-and-again/
    http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=17332

    Plenty more if you want to search.

    My point stands.
    I believed you but not CiF. Now you have more links from varied sources only confirms my belief. I really don't see value in quoting CiF. That was my point not really doubting that the point was wrong.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,556
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    UK politics is basically mental.

    DMPrBMCXkAA4FS3.jpg
    If only it were limited to the UK.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Pensions are still linked to inflation right?

    So every time a Tory MP opens their mouth and sterling falls, they're inadvertently harming the deficit too.
    _
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    So inflation + triple lock = £660m more than it would have been had it been linked to statutory earnings.
    _
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,419
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Pensions are still linked to inflation right?

    So every time a Tory MP opens their mouth and sterling falls, they're inadvertently harming the deficit too.
    Not as much as the alternative...given that McDonnell has said they are scenario planning for a run on the pound if Labour ever got in, at least they are demonstrating a degree of self awareness.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Pensions are still linked to inflation right?

    So every time a Tory MP opens their mouth and sterling falls, they're inadvertently harming the deficit too.
    Not as much as the alternative...given that McDonnell has said they are scenario planning for a run on the pound if Labour ever got in, at least they are demonstrating a degree of self awareness.

    Do you live in counterfactual land or something?
    _
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,419
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Pensions are still linked to inflation right?

    So every time a Tory MP opens their mouth and sterling falls, they're inadvertently harming the deficit too.
    Not as much as the alternative...given that McDonnell has said they are scenario planning for a run on the pound if Labour ever got in, at least they are demonstrating a degree of self awareness.

    Do you live in counterfactual land or something?
    Not sure where that is, but it's probably better than the political wilderness which is where you are :wink:
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Pensions are still linked to inflation right?

    So every time a Tory MP opens their mouth and sterling falls, they're inadvertently harming the deficit too.
    Not as much as the alternative...given that McDonnell has said they are scenario planning for a run on the pound if Labour ever got in, at least they are demonstrating a degree of self awareness.

    Do you live in counterfactual land or something?
    Not sure where that is, but it's probably better than the political wilderness which is where you are :wink:

    Counterfactual: relating to or expressing what has not happened or is not the case.
    _
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,419
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Pensions are still linked to inflation right?

    So every time a Tory MP opens their mouth and sterling falls, they're inadvertently harming the deficit too.
    Not as much as the alternative...given that McDonnell has said they are scenario planning for a run on the pound if Labour ever got in, at least they are demonstrating a degree of self awareness.

    Do you live in counterfactual land or something?
    Not sure where that is, but it's probably better than the political wilderness which is where you are :wink:

    Counterfactual: relating to or expressing what has not happened or is not the case.
    I know. My point above still stands...
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,329
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Pensions are still linked to inflation right?

    So every time a Tory MP opens their mouth and sterling falls, they're inadvertently harming the deficit too.
    Not as much as the alternative...given that McDonnell has said they are scenario planning for a run on the pound if Labour ever got in, at least they are demonstrating a degree of self awareness.

    Do you live in counterfactual land or something?
    Right next door to deflectionland?
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Either way, Tories have a problem on their hands re spending on pensioners.

    Reduced wiggle room as a result of brexit.

    Declining living standards as a result of Brexit induced inflation.

    How d'ya square that circle if you're Tory?

    Cut into public services further and risk further economic slowdown?

    Spend your way out?
    _
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Either way, Tories have a problem on their hands re spending on pensioners.

    Reduced wiggle room as a result of brexit.

    Declining living standards as a result of Brexit induced inflation.

    How d'ya square that circle if you're Tory?

    Cut into public services further and risk further economic slowdown?

    Spend your way out?

    will be a mixture of cutting elsewhere and borrowing more
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    Doesn't inflation reduce the debt in real terms?
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    Tories caused brexit, inflation is mainly down to the fall in Sterling and brexit uncertainty ... inflation = 3%, the pensions rise will be 3% , so no real terms increase.
    Had inflation not risen to 3%, the pensioners would have seen a 2.5% rise, no doubt much of it in real terms and deservedly so, we ve some of the poorest pensioners in Europe.

    Double whammy for those pensioners who are well off, shitte rates on savings, made far worse by rising inflation, any 0.25% rates increase will make scant difference, as i doubt the banks will pass it on.

    they know who to thank :)

    Mcdonnel might talk about a run on the £, the tories delivered .....
  • tangled_metal
    tangled_metal Posts: 4,021
    Tories delivered on (or are in the process of delivering) the voter's decision in the referendum. Thank those who voted leave. Tories just gave us the choice not make it themselves.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,419
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Doesn't inflation reduce the debt in real terms?
    Yes it does.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,419
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    Tories delivered on (or are in the process of delivering) the voter's decision in the referendum. Thank those who voted leave. Tories just gave us the choice not make it themselves.
    We've already tried to explain that to him but he doesn't want to listen.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,329
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    Tories delivered on (or are in the process of delivering) the voter's decision in the referendum. Thank those who voted leave. Tories just gave us the choice not make it themselves.
    We've already tried to explain that to him but he doesn't want to listen.
    It was still David Cameron who thought (to paraphrase) "Well, there is a risk, but it's only a small one. That is worth it for a few more votes".
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Doesn't inflation reduce the debt in real terms?
    Yes it does.

    But index linked gilts are costing us an extra £4bn this year and slowing growth will lose them revenue and increase spending.

    So yes existing debt may go down in real terms but new debt will be added at a faster rate.

    And if economic growth was zero and inflation was 3% would existing debt really be less?
  • tangled_metal
    tangled_metal Posts: 4,021
    PBlakeney wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    Tories delivered on (or are in the process of delivering) the voter's decision in the referendum. Thank those who voted leave. Tories just gave us the choice not make it themselves.
    We've already tried to explain that to him but he doesn't want to listen.
    It was still David Cameron who thought (to paraphrase) "Well, there is a risk, but it's only a small one. That is worth it for a few more votes".
    So he was wrong there but he still didn't decide on Brexit. That was down to the voters.
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    Tories delivered on (or are in the process of delivering) the voter's decision in the referendum. Thank those who voted leave. Tories just gave us the choice not make it themselves.
    We've already tried to explain that to him but he doesn't want to listen.

    Rubbish yet again.

    Thatcher came under great pressure to restore the death penalty via a referendum, she resisted, though i disagree with much she did, she was a leader of this country and didnt follow the rabble.
    the population would have loved it back.

    We all now why DC gave in, i belive Rick once said if you had a referendum on lower taxes and higher spending it would win.

    The PM s job is to lead, you seem to struggle with this concept.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,419
    mamba80 wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    Tories delivered on (or are in the process of delivering) the voter's decision in the referendum. Thank those who voted leave. Tories just gave us the choice not make it themselves.
    We've already tried to explain that to him but he doesn't want to listen.

    Rubbish yet again.

    Thatcher came under great pressure to restore the death penalty via a referendum, she resisted, though i disagree with much she did, she was a leader of this country and didnt follow the rabble.
    the population would have loved it back.

    We all now why DC gave in, i belive Rick once said if you had a referendum on lower taxes and higher spending it would win.

    The PM s job is to lead, you seem to struggle with this concept.
    Oh OK mamba, you're right. The Tories just triggered Article 50 off their own bat and the referendum was just a figment of our imagination :roll:
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    Tories delivered on (or are in the process of delivering) the voter's decision in the referendum. Thank those who voted leave. Tories just gave us the choice not make it themselves.
    We've already tried to explain that to him but he doesn't want to listen.

    Rubbish yet again.

    Thatcher came under great pressure to restore the death penalty via a referendum, she resisted, though i disagree with much she did, she was a leader of this country and didnt follow the rabble.
    the population would have loved it back.

    We all now why DC gave in, i belive Rick once said if you had a referendum on lower taxes and higher spending it would win.

    The PM s job is to lead, you seem to struggle with this concept.
    Oh OK mamba, you're right. The Tories just triggered Article 50 off their own bat and the referendum was just a figment of our imagination :roll:

    DC should nt have called a referendum, its far too complicated and permanent decision to be left to the electorate, as can be seen by all, undoing 44 years of membership is proving to be almost an impossibility.

    of course thats for the other thread but tories do appear to be causing this country far greater harm than your bogyman JC has ever done, if May really doesnt want 5 years of labour, then she needs to reverse brexit, the eco damage to the UK by 2022 will be immense and it ll be the tories that ll get the blame.
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Pensions are still linked to inflation right?

    So every time a Tory MP opens their mouth and sterling falls, they're inadvertently harming the deficit too.
    Not as much as the alternative...given that McDonnell has said they are scenario planning for a run on the pound if Labour ever got in, at least they are demonstrating a degree of self awareness.

    Do you live in counterfactual land or something?
    Not sure where that is, but it's probably better than the political wilderness which is where you are :wink:

    Are you that confident that you won't be in the political wilderness in the near future?!

    Mind you, I think that all of the crap we've had lately is just going to result in the UK shifting, ironically, to EU style coalitions. After all, are there really enough brainless idiots to vote for a Corbyn majority? And are there really enough brainless idiots to vote for a Tory majority? There maybe nobody any good to vote for but there are certainly plenty of people not to vote for. Might be for the best in the long run.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,419
    Rolf F wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Pensions are still linked to inflation right?

    So every time a Tory MP opens their mouth and sterling falls, they're inadvertently harming the deficit too.
    Not as much as the alternative...given that McDonnell has said they are scenario planning for a run on the pound if Labour ever got in, at least they are demonstrating a degree of self awareness.

    Do you live in counterfactual land or something?
    Not sure where that is, but it's probably better than the political wilderness which is where you are :wink:

    Are you that confident that you won't be in the political wilderness in the near future?!

    Mind you, I think that all of the crap we've had lately is just going to result in the UK shifting, ironically, to EU style coalitions. After all, are there really enough brainless idiots to vote for a Corbyn majority? And are there really enough brainless idiots to vote for a Tory majority? There maybe nobody any good to vote for but there are certainly plenty of people not to vote for. Might be for the best in the long run.
    There definitely aren't enough brainless idiots to vote for a Lib Dem majority.

    Who knows what will happen.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    Rolf F wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Pensions are still linked to inflation right?

    So every time a Tory MP opens their mouth and sterling falls, they're inadvertently harming the deficit too.
    Not as much as the alternative...given that McDonnell has said they are scenario planning for a run on the pound if Labour ever got in, at least they are demonstrating a degree of self awareness.

    Do you live in counterfactual land or something?
    Not sure where that is, but it's probably better than the political wilderness which is where you are :wink:

    Are you that confident that you won't be in the political wilderness in the near future?!

    Mind you, I think that all of the crap we've had lately is just going to result in the UK shifting, ironically, to EU style coalitions. After all, are there really enough brainless idiots to vote for a Corbyn majority? And are there really enough brainless idiots to vote for a Tory majority? There maybe nobody any good to vote for but there are certainly plenty of people not to vote for. Might be for the best in the long run.

    I d vote Corbyn, i think he d be good for the country, even in opposition, he is changing Tory policy for the better, with more of an emphasis on the young and housing, energy prices and even rent! they now looking at increasing skills training too, all Labour policies and all until a year or so ago, poo poo ed by the Tories as Marxist policies.
  • john80
    john80 Posts: 2,965
    mamba80 wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    Tories delivered on (or are in the process of delivering) the voter's decision in the referendum. Thank those who voted leave. Tories just gave us the choice not make it themselves.
    We've already tried to explain that to him but he doesn't want to listen.

    Rubbish yet again.

    Thatcher came under great pressure to restore the death penalty via a referendum, she resisted, though i disagree with much she did, she was a leader of this country and didnt follow the rabble.
    the population would have loved it back.

    We all now why DC gave in, i belive Rick once said if you had a referendum on lower taxes and higher spending it would win.

    The PM s job is to lead, you seem to struggle with this concept.
    Oh OK mamba, you're right. The Tories just triggered Article 50 off their own bat and the referendum was just a figment of our imagination :roll:

    DC should nt have called a referendum, its far too complicated and permanent decision to be left to the electorate, as can be seen by all, undoing 44 years of membership is proving to be almost an impossibility.

    of course thats for the other thread but tories do appear to be causing this country far greater harm than your bogyman JC has ever done, if May really doesnt want 5 years of labour, then she needs to reverse brexit, the eco damage to the UK by 2022 will be immense and it ll be the tories that ll get the blame.

    JC has not ever been in power and therefore he can't really affect change with the exception of issues that most MP regardless of party would agree with. He did however sit as a Labour backbencher for a government who allowed a global financial crash to affect us so badly. That was pretty bad or is he immune from this as he was just a backbencher. I did not see any evidence of the Labour party shifting the economies focus away from finance to insulate us from this from 1997 onwards and I did not see Jeremy Corbyn making any great vocal argument for it either but then he is a London MP. Not what I would call leadership.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    Tories delivered on (or are in the process of delivering) the voter's decision in the referendum. Thank those who voted leave. Tories just gave us the choice not make it themselves.
    We've already tried to explain that to him but he doesn't want to listen.

    Rubbish yet again.

    Thatcher came under great pressure to restore the death penalty via a referendum, she resisted, though i disagree with much she did, she was a leader of this country and didnt follow the rabble.
    the population would have loved it back.

    We all now why DC gave in, i belive Rick once said if you had a referendum on lower taxes and higher spending it would win.

    The PM s job is to lead, you seem to struggle with this concept.
    Oh OK mamba, you're right. The Tories just triggered Article 50 off their own bat and the referendum was just a figment of our imagination :roll:

    Are you really arguing that Brexit is not a Tory balls up?

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