Join the Labour Party and save your country!

tangled_metal

Is that a statistic or opinion or both?

Sorry! I'm losing it today. I need my bike ride home!

bompington

Tangled Metal wrote:

Selective use of stats? We all do that don't we?

If you don't count those who don't count, you'll find that actually 67.6% of us use stats selectively.

rick_chasey

Ah, the ol' deflection.

Stevo_666

Notwithstanding that the data is hopelessly out of date, let's see how selective Rick is being. Surprisingly if we look at other charts in that report, they show the UK doing rather better in other areas in comparison to the rest of Europe :roll:

I can't paste the individual charts but for those who want to check the report, take a look at the capital stock graph for UK manufacturing on page 13 and also the productivity factor chart on page 17.
http://ec.europa.eu/regional_policy/sources/docgener/work/2011_01_capital_stock.pdf

As I said above, we all use data selectively from time to time but Rick is at least consistent

Any luck with finding some data from this decade Rick?

Stevo_666

Rick Chasey wrote:

Ah, the ol' deflection.

True, time you started explaining your selective use of stats

pinno

Sure fire way to get Corbyn into power:

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/tory-party-me ... 35932.html

rjsterry

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

rightbollox

There's no such thing

You asked for a solution but what's the problem as you see it?

Also cant see what countries relate to some of those colour codes - some of those red colours seem to be in EE but cannot see exactly which ones? You need to set better questions Rick.

So it's from this: http://ec.europa.eu/regional_policy/sou ... _stock.pdf

Capital stock is a useful indicator for how well or badly a region is doing.

Capital stock per worker even more so.

In the UK, a lot of the regions have a a capital to worker ratio as low as the rural parts of Poland.

Compare that to France, Germany, Netherlands, Italy, and it looks pretty ugly.

Basically, to account for UK success, you've basically got a hyper strong city in London, and the rest is broadly sh!te.

What's the rightiebollox response to that regional inequality?

Something about that map should have told you that the capital of to worker ratio in the service sector is not that useful an indicator of how well a region is doing. Southern Italy and parts of Greece were not "doing better" in any meaningful way than most of southern England. It wasn't true in 2007 and isn't true now.

Stevo_666

I suspect that Rick was a bit to keen to make a point to me and didn't think through properly what he was posting. Probably not for the first time.

Tbh I was not familiar with the phrase and have not seen it used as a measure of how well somewhere is doing before now.

rjsterry

Here's a map that makes France look pretty bad

Stevo_666

rjsterry wrote:

Here's a map that makes France look pretty bad

And parts of Spain, Germany, Italy, Belgium and Ireland.

rick_chasey

Sure sure.

Capital stock is a measure of where there is investment or lack of.

UK does suffer from under investment away from London.

Can argue the stats if you want, but it was just an example of the kind of north / south or London/ not London divide that harms the UK.

The national numbers hide the difference; the regional numbers don't.

I rarely see arguments from the right on how to improve that. I figured the map was illustrative. Perhaps it wasn't, but the above question still remains.

rjsterry

I see. Indicative of levels of investment is a bit more specific than 'doing well'. One could argue that some of the areas showing higher investment need that investment to 'catch up'.

rolf_f

Rick Chasey wrote:

Sure sure.

Capital stock is a measure of where there is investment or lack of.

UK does suffer from under investment away from London.

Can argue the stats if you want, but it was just an example of the kind of north / south or London/ not London divide that harms the UK.

The national numbers hide the difference; the regional numbers don't.

I rarely see arguments from the right on how to improve that. I figured the map was illustrative. Perhaps it wasn't, but the above question still remains.

All a bit ironic that the source of money that does try to invest outside of London is Europe but we are getting rid of them. Still, things will be better when Westminster takes back control and really starts to invest in projects that benefit NotLondon such as Crossrails 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6.

tangled_metal

Corbyn's London mp right? His cronies, are they London / Westminster bubble politicians?

I only ask because my suspicion is Tories and Labour aren't likely to change anything with regards to investment into different parts of UK.

Stevo_666

Rolf F wrote:

All a bit ironic that the source of money that does try to invest outside of London is Europe

Got any stats to back that up Rolf?

Say, comparison of EU vs UK govt vs private investment. Hopefully that's less than a decade old

surrey_commuter

Stevo 666 wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

All a bit ironic that the source of money that does try to invest outside of London is Europe

Got any stats to back that up Rolf?

Say, comparison of EU vs UK govt vs private investment. Hopefully that's less than a decade old

if you are below 75% of EU average then you are eligible for EU structural funds. Where my outlaws used to live in Shropshire there was many a blue sign showing what had been built with EU money

surrey_commuter

Stevo 666 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Here's a map that makes France look pretty bad

And parts of Spain, Germany, Italy, Belgium and Ireland.

am I reading this map wrong?

if 100 is average then the yellowy colours could be 99%

bad would be orange (cornwall/wales) and red

briantrumpet

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Here's a map that makes France look pretty bad

And parts of Spain, Germany, Italy, Belgium and Ireland.

am I reading this map wrong?

if 100 is average then the yellowy colours could be 99%

bad would be orange (cornwall/wales) and red

Perhaps Stevo thinks that the EU would only be classed as a success if all countries were above average.

Stevo_666

Thanks for your useful contribution to the thread.

Next...

rick_chasey

Tangled Metal wrote:

Corbyn's London mp right? His cronies, are they London / Westminster bubble politicians?

I only ask because my suspicion is Tories and Labour aren't likely to change anything with regards to investment into different parts of UK.

I just wanna hear some ideas. Labour's most recent attempt amounted to increasing the size of the state sector, specifically in deprived regions.

It was some kind of wealth transfer, but it wasn't sustainable.

The Tories seem to actively work against it; and they even mock the few Tory leaders who recognise what a wasted opportunity it is (i.e. Osbourne)

rjsterry

briantrumpet wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Here's a map that makes France look pretty bad

And parts of Spain, Germany, Italy, Belgium and Ireland.

am I reading this map wrong?

if 100 is average then the yellowy colours could be 99%

bad would be orange (cornwall/wales) and red

Perhaps Stevo thinks that the EU would only be classed as a success if all countries were above average.

The point was to post a map that whilst accurate, gave a misleading impression at first glance. Seems to have worked.

rick_chasey

So Vince Cable is accusing May of supressing 9 studies that show that immigration from the continent has very little impact on wages.

tangled_metal

There's quite a few areas where the biggest employer is the state. There's a town in the north east near a former employer's important UK customer. It's biggest employer is the jobcentre plus in the town centre! So many clients they had to be heavy with staff!

Other areas, in Wales IIRC, the nhs is the biggest employer hands down. Although that's pretty common situation. In my nearest city the big employers are university, another university and the hospital / nhs. About 25-30 years ago the biggest employer in this city was a manufacturer exporting into Europe and the rest of the world. I know that because I came up here to work for them (unfortunately after they and the sector they were in had shrunk possibly because of government policy). However it goes to show how successive governments have created a situation where manufacturing is replaced by state funded organizations as major employers in many regions of the country.

surrey_commuter

Rick Chasey wrote:

So Vince Cable is accusing May of supressing 9 studies that show that immigration from the continent has very little impact on wages.

he should be asking for that number about how much Brexit has cost the NHS

I am bandaging my ribs in anticipation of it being £350m per week

surrey_commuter

rjsterry wrote:

briantrumpet wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Here's a map that makes France look pretty bad

And parts of Spain, Germany, Italy, Belgium and Ireland.

am I reading this map wrong?

if 100 is average then the yellowy colours could be 99%

bad would be orange (cornwall/wales) and red

Perhaps Stevo thinks that the EU would only be classed as a success if all countries were above average.

The point was to post a map that whilst accurate, gave a misleading impression at first glance. Seems to have worked.

chapeau

rjsterry

If graphical representations of economics is the kind of thing that stirs you, you might like the source of that map.

http://www.economicsinpictures.com/

surrey_commuter

rjsterry wrote:

If graphical representations of economics is the kind of thing that stirs you, you might like the source of that map.

http://www.economicsinpictures.com/

Bookmarked

Stevo_666

rjsterry wrote:

If graphical representations of economics is the kind of thing that stirs you, you might like the source of that map.

http://www.economicsinpictures.com/

Looks interesting. Will have more of a look later when I haven't just got the phone with me.

surrey_commuter

Stevo 666 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

If graphical representations of economics is the kind of thing that stirs you, you might like the source of that map.

http://www.economicsinpictures.com/

Looks interesting. Will have more of a look later when I haven't just got the phone with me.

to keep it in one place this site is brilliant for data - it will let you do block graphs
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/indicators

Stevo_666

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

If graphical representations of economics is the kind of thing that stirs you, you might like the source of that map.

http://www.economicsinpictures.com/

Looks interesting. Will have more of a look later when I haven't just got the phone with me.

to keep it in one place this site is brilliant for data - it will let you do block graphs
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/indicators

Thanks SC.

I have used that site for info when arguing some of the points on this and the Brexit thread but probably have not appreciated the full extent of what it has.