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pblakeney

Don't spend much time finding out what's happening up north do you? Indyref2 will be called when there is a chance of winning. There is an unlikely chance with A50, none without it.

Stevo_666

PBlakeney wrote:

Don't spend much time finding out what's happening up north do you? Indyref2 will be called when there is a chance of winning. There is an unlikely chance with A50, none without it.

Of course. Assuming we give permission.

bobmcstuff

Coopster the 1st wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

If Corbyn gets in, yes I do believe A50 will be cancelled. There will also be an IndyRef2.

Not happening.
A50 is the excuse for Indyref2. Won't get one without the other.

I agree about JC getting in is not going to happen .

But the concession JC will give to the Lib Dems to get support for his manifesto will be cancelling of A50
In the same way, I believe the concession to the SNP for their support will be giving them Indyref2. I can see where you are coming from on this but I see it as the one concession that will allow full support of the labour manifesto

Christ what planet are you living on. Too much Daily Mail? Corbyn doesn't like the EU (he didn't want to join in the first place!) and if IF he makes a coalition with the Lib Dems they will have next to no say as they're looking at a handful of seats. They're not going to get back to the level they were at in 2010 even.

Maybe a Lab-SNP coalition would be different (which also seems much more likely, given the LDs will have a handful of seats and the SNP will be a large bloc) but current Labour leadership seems pretty supportive of leaving the EU (not withstanding most of the PLP who don't feel the same way!).

tangled_metal

Anyone watch the IFC briefing on the party manifestos? On the parliament channel.

Well they looked at overall effect of the manifestos on different socio-economic groups (7 plus top 5% IIRC). All were in negative figures across the who groups.

What was interesting was the differences between Labour, Tories and LibDems. The curve for the Tories was more negative for lower groups, less negative for middle groups before dropping for the highest groups. Hitting each end hardest and the lower social groups the most.

What about Labour? Same shape curve! The only difference is a slight lowering of the curve at the higher social groups and the lowest groups was at most a little bit closer to zero but still very much a worsening situation for the poorest socio-economic groups.

The ideal would be a straight line. The LibDems are closest to that. Still an upturned U shape but a fairly flat one and overall at a less negative level.

So according to that respected think tank it appears that if you really want the Labour rhetoric to come true then vote LibDems! Corbyn won't cut it.

mamba80

Stevo 666 wrote:

They were quite happy to have Indyref 1 well before Brexit was even a prospect. The SNP will try to have Indyref 2 regardless of what happens on Brexit.

well, according to you, DC must have played fast and loose with the united kingdom (i agree with you on this btw) as he was the one who gave the SNP the indy1 vote didnt he? and it was Labour in the form of Gordon Brown, who managed to get the Scotts to vote No, thank fcuk for Labour hey!!!

bompington

Err, no.
More of us voted No because more of us think independence is a bad idea, not because of anything Gordon Brown said.

rjsterry

Tangled Metal wrote:

Anyone watch the IFC briefing on the party manifestos? On the parliament channel.

Well they looked at overall effect of the manifestos on different socio-economic groups (7 plus top 5% IIRC). All were in negative figures across the who groups.

What was interesting was the differences between Labour, Tories and LibDems. The curve for the Tories was more negative for lower groups, less negative for middle groups before dropping for the highest groups. Hitting each end hardest and the lower social groups the most.

What about Labour? Same shape curve! The only difference is a slight lowering of the curve at the higher social groups and the lowest groups was at most a little bit closer to zero but still very much a worsening situation for the poorest socio-economic groups.

The ideal would be a straight line. The LibDems are closest to that. Still an upturned U shape but a fairly flat one and overall at a less negative level.

So according to that respected think tank it appears that if you really want the Labour rhetoric to come true then vote LibDems! Corbyn won't cut it.

Ooh, I love a good graph. Any links?

BTW, that rather correlates with my general take on Labour: some good ideas and overall vision, but prone to letting ideology get in the way of achieving what they set out to do.

Frank the tank

If Labour come within a few seats of a tory majority it will be a moral if not real victory. TM called this election thinking she would totally destroy the labour opposition....................I don't think that will happen.

Brexit and all the turmoil it will rain down on the UK economy (whoever is in charge) lays fairly and squarely at the foot of the tories, as the only reason there was a referenda was David Cameron was sh1t scared of his self centered back benches. He did what he thought was good for the tory party not what was good for the country.

Tories will always look after themselves no matter how they dress it up.

Why the f*ck anyone who works for low wages and depend on the NHS for health care could even consider voting for them is beyond me....................Perhaps they read the Sun or the daily mash.

meanredspider

Frank the tank wrote:

is beyond me....................

Funnily enough, I can see that wouldn't take much

Frank the tank

meanredspider wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

is beyond me....................

Funnily enough, I can see that wouldn't take much

Selfish wanker!

Stevo_666

Frank the tank wrote:

If Labour come within a few seats of a tory majority it will be a moral if not real victory.

Call it what you want, it's still a loss.

mamba80

Stevo 666 wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

If Labour come within a few seats of a tory majority it will be a moral if not real victory.

Call it what you want, it's still a loss.

do you think May will be stronger or weaker (as a PM) if she gets a similar majority as she has now?

pblakeney

mamba80 wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

If Labour come within a few seats of a tory majority it will be a moral if not real victory.

Call it what you want, it's still a loss.

do you think May will be stronger or weaker (as a PM) if she gets a similar majority as she has now?

Right now, I think she'll be weaker even if the party walks it.
This has been a very, very poor past few weeks.

Stevo_666

PBlakeney wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

If Labour come within a few seats of a tory majority it will be a moral if not real victory.

Call it what you want, it's still a loss.

do you think May will be stronger or weaker (as a PM) if she gets a similar majority as she has now?

Right now, I think she'll be weaker even if the party walks it.
This has been a very, very poor past few weeks.

Compared to Corbyn and Farron who won't be PM...

I can see people lining up their 'moral victories' for this Friday

mamba80

Stevo 666 wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

If Labour come within a few seats of a tory majority it will be a moral if not real victory.

Call it what you want, it's still a loss.

do you think May will be stronger or weaker (as a PM) if she gets a similar majority as she has now?

Right now, I think she'll be weaker even if the party walks it.
This has been a very, very poor past few weeks.

Compared to Corbyn and Farron who won't be PM...

I can see people lining up their 'moral victories' for this Friday

not from me you wont, as you say a win is a win and the Tories will be back in regardless, so zero moral victory.

but i m just interested in what a true blue thinks of their leader, who called an unnecessary election, apparently in order to gain a strong hand for EU negotiations, so should she not get this, she would have failed by her own high standards!!!

i had a bet with u on 100 plus margin, those days seem a life time away.

norvernrob

mamba80 wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

If Labour come within a few seats of a tory majority it will be a moral if not real victory.

Call it what you want, it's still a loss.

do you think May will be stronger or weaker (as a PM) if she gets a similar majority as she has now?

The only reason she called this election is because the Tories had a huge lead in polls and she wanted to lock in 5 more years with a massive majority because Labour were no threat.

Yet, somehow, within a couple of weeks she's managed to make Corbyn look like a statesman whilst she loses votes every time she opens her mouth. As has already been pointed out, she already looks a lot weaker than she did a month ago and whatever the result on Thursday that won't change.

rick_chasey

May can't be high on your list of favourite Tory leaders surely Stevo?

I know you see politics as more like football than content - the Tories using the Ed Balls policies you had so much disdain for in 2015 and your total reversal on that position demonstrates as such - but that aside you can't actually think she's any good?

Stevo_666

Rick Chasey wrote:

May can't be high on your list of favourite Tory leaders surely Stevo?

I know you see politics as more like football than content - the Tories using the Ed Balls policies you had so much disdain for in 2015 and your total reversal on that position demonstrates as such - but that aside you can't actually think she's any good?

There will never be another Mrs. T. And yes she has not had a very good campaign.

But TM is way better than Corbyn, Sturgeon and Farron. She is still the best choice on Thursday .

Stevo_666

NorvernRob wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

If Labour come within a few seats of a tory majority it will be a moral if not real victory.

Call it what you want, it's still a loss.

do you think May will be stronger or weaker (as a PM) if she gets a similar majority as she has now?

The only reason she called this election is because the Tories had a huge lead in polls and she wanted to lock in 5 more years with a massive majority because Labour were no threat.

Yet, somehow, within a couple of weeks she's managed to make Corbyn look like a statesman whilst she loses votes every time she opens her mouth. As has already been pointed out, she already looks a lot weaker than she did a month ago and whatever the result on Thursday that won't change.

So despite being crap, she will still win? Says a lot about everyone else.

Stevo_666

mamba80 wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

If Labour come within a few seats of a tory majority it will be a moral if not real victory.

Call it what you want, it's still a loss.

do you think May will be stronger or weaker (as a PM) if she gets a similar majority as she has now?

Right now, I think she'll be weaker even if the party walks it.
This has been a very, very poor past few weeks.

Compared to Corbyn and Farron who won't be PM...

I can see people lining up their 'moral victories' for this Friday

not from me you wont, as you say a win is a win and the Tories will be back in regardless, so zero moral victory.

but i m just interested in what a true blue thinks of their leader, who called an unnecessary election, apparently in order to gain a strong hand for EU negotiations, so should she not get this, she would have failed by her own high standards!!!

i had a bet with u on 100 plus margin, those days seem a life time away.

Let's see on Friday morning eh

pblakeney

Stevo 666 wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

If Labour come within a few seats of a tory majority it will be a moral if not real victory.

Call it what you want, it's still a loss.

do you think May will be stronger or weaker (as a PM) if she gets a similar majority as she has now?

Right now, I think she'll be weaker even if the party walks it.
This has been a very, very poor past few weeks.

Compared to Corbyn and Farron who won't be PM...

I can see people lining up their 'moral victories' for this Friday

The question was whether May would be stronger or weaker. I'd say weaker so the answer still stands. Also points towards near future in fighting. No moral victories from here.

mamba80

Stevo 666 wrote:

NorvernRob wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

If Labour come within a few seats of a tory majority it will be a moral if not real victory.

Call it what you want, it's still a loss.

do you think May will be stronger or weaker (as a PM) if she gets a similar majority as she has now?

The only reason she called this election is because the Tories had a huge lead in polls and she wanted to lock in 5 more years with a massive majority because Labour were no threat.

Yet, somehow, within a couple of weeks she's managed to make Corbyn look like a statesman whilst she loses votes every time she opens her mouth. As has already been pointed out, she already looks a lot weaker than she did a month ago and whatever the result on Thursday that won't change.

So despite being crap, she will still win? Says a lot about everyone else.

Had that stupid Benn stood behind the democratic process, instead of launching a leadership challenge esp as the tories were in chaos - corbyn would nt have started this GE 25pts behind and would nt have attracted the amount of negative press he has.
But even you Stevo must be as surprised in his positive performances as i m surprised in TM's negative ones ?

One think i am very surprised at, is her tone of recent speeches, you d think she d been in opposition for the last 7 years :roll:

meursault

mamba80 wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

If Labour come within a few seats of a tory majority it will be a moral if not real victory.

Call it what you want, it's still a loss.

do you think May will be stronger or weaker (as a PM) if she gets a similar majority as she has now?

She's an absolute joke, and will be gone before you know it. Running scared of debating with comrade Corbyn FFS?

Stevo_666

mamba80 wrote:

But even you Stevo must be as surprised in his positive performances as i m surprised in TM's negative ones ?

Not really, Labour figured they didn't have much to lose and offered lots of people the imaginary proceeds from their magic money tree - quite a few people appear to have been daft enough to swallow it.

rick_chasey

Stevo 666 wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

But even you Stevo must be as surprised in his positive performances as i m surprised in TM's negative ones ?

Not really, Labour figured they didn't have much to lose and offered lots of people the imaginary proceeds from their magic money tree - quite a few people appear to have been daft enough to swallow it.

So you're happy with the Ed Balls deficit reduction scheme proposed in 2015?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25885606

norvernrob

Stevo 666 wrote:

NorvernRob wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

If Labour come within a few seats of a tory majority it will be a moral if not real victory.

Call it what you want, it's still a loss.

do you think May will be stronger or weaker (as a PM) if she gets a similar majority as she has now?

The only reason she called this election is because the Tories had a huge lead in polls and she wanted to lock in 5 more years with a massive majority because Labour were no threat.

Yet, somehow, within a couple of weeks she's managed to make Corbyn look like a statesman whilst she loses votes every time she opens her mouth. As has already been pointed out, she already looks a lot weaker than she did a month ago and whatever the result on Thursday that won't change.

So despite being crap, she will still win? Says a lot about everyone else.

A couple of weeks ago a massive majority was a forgone conclusion and Corbyn was regarded as totally unelectable by most people. Somehow TM has managed to make a total mess of the campaign, even with two terror attacks taking place which given Corbyn's image for 'softness' will have only benefitted the Tories.

mamba80

Stevo 666 wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

But even you Stevo must be as surprised in his positive performances as i m surprised in TM's negative ones ?

Not really, Labour figured they didn't have much to lose and offered lots of people the imaginary proceeds from their magic money tree - quite a few people appear to have been daft enough to swallow it.

ha ha come on think up your own slogan pleeeese!

Tories are also promising a lot too, only they ve not said where it will come from, JC has done well not because he has promised things but because he has a vision, now you can disagree with his vision but May isnt offering jack and thats her and the tories problem.
i think you said complacency was the tories worry (i think u meant in regard to getting out the vote) but it looks like its the case, some badly thought out policies, personalising the campaign and the terrorist attacks highlighting Police cuts and tory lead drops.
3 days from polling and i ve not got a clue what the Tories will do for me, my family or country.

meanredspider

mamba80 wrote:

3 days from polling and i ve not got a clue what the Tories will do for me, my family or country.

They (or any other party) will save you, your family and the country from Corbyn. Simples

mamba80

meanredspider wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

3 days from polling and i ve not got a clue what the Tories will do for me, my family or country.

They (or any other party) will save you, your family and the country from Corbyn. Simples

yeah right.

Stevo_666

mamba80 wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

3 days from polling and i ve not got a clue what the Tories will do for me, my family or country.

They (or any other party) will save you, your family and the country from Corbyn. Simples

yeah right.

They will. Because they're in, Corbyn isn't.

As you're a self confessed higher rate taxpayer, your desire to have more tax flowing into the government's coffers will be come true on a very personal level if Corbyn's lot get in