Join the Labour Party and save your country!

bobmcstuff

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Educated in a comp mate.

I got streamed, so all the smart/hard working kids ended up in the top sets, the more distruptive/thick kids in the lower sets.

Meanwhile, I learned to get on with all walks of life.

What about streaming is so different to a grammar school? Apart from the fact you spent your lunch times having to get on with people of all types, not just smarter people?

If streaming was applied from the get go and was shown to work then fine. Grammars are just a further step in streaming and they seem to work very well from what I see - better than comps. Whatever the reason they work very well and there should be more of them for that reason.

I see you are not against streaming by academic ability so don't really understand your objection to what appears to be simply a more effective form of streaming.

I've already explained why it's less effective. I.e. grammar schools pick one point, across all subjects to decide if you make it or not.

Streaming at comps allows for flexibility and more mobility.

It also means you learn to get on with all types people rather than certain types which, in my opinion anyway is one of the most important parts of school - learning to get on in the world.

My guess is people actually like grammar schools because they offer some way of keeping the riff raff out without any of the cost...!

I was streamed from the get go and was in top set everything except Maths where I was in 3 of 5. My mum had to apply pressure to the school to let me sit the GCSE higher maths paper so I could get an A (at the time the middle set sat a paper that you could only get a max of a B, don't know how it works now. Set 5 was max of a C). I got my A in the end.

One of the things that worries me about comps is that you might only have the chance to do the B paper or the C paper which may hurt your chances later on. Say I'd failed my 11+ I might have been in a situation where there wasn't that mobility to do the higher paper and get the better grade.

London has radically improved its education over the past 15 or so years yet instead of looking at how they've managed this and trying to replicate it we're trying to do something totally different. http://www.lse.ac.uk/newsAndMedia/news/ ... hools.aspx

"London’s schools have become extremely good at helping poor children succeed."

https://www.educationdevelopmenttrust.c ... on_WEB.pdf

My personal view is that a proportion of parents like the idea of grammar schools because all parents seem to believe that their child is smart and special and will get in. Interesting that most supporters like it because they think their kids will do better there, forgetting about the shoddy education that was afforded to most in the old secondary moderns and the fact that there's a chance their kids will end up there.

pinno

bobmcstuff wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Educated...streaming.

I've...of the cost...!

I...

My personal view is that a proportion of parents like the idea of grammar schools because all parents seem to believe that their child is smart and special and will get in. Interesting that most supporters like it because they think their kids will do better there, forgetting about the shoddy education that was afforded to most in the old secondary moderns and the fact that there's a chance their kids will end up there.

My mother (teacher and former beneficiary of an all girls Grammar School education), thought differently. She thought that the 11+ was removed by politicians to placate the rising Middle classes for they had the fear that little Johnny wasn't going to pass the exam.
This would have been contrary to their perception of social status and therefore were against the 11+.

I think that's entirely plausible.

bompington

Rick Chasey wrote:

Though I did Latin in my comp too

Which makes you a bit of an avis rara these days

tangled_metal

I gave up Latin at my school. Too easy, so I switched to GCSE ancient Greek from scratch for the challenge.

In the past learning Latin or ancient Greek was a requisite to go to university. The idea was that it's an intellectual exercise that separated the wheat from the chaff academically. IMHO Latin wasn't that hard to learn. Ancient Greek was a decent amount harder to learn. Certainly from scratch to GCSE level. I do still believe that ancient Greek should be taught to all with prospects of a university education. It has merit IMHO. Latin I'd say less so.

pinno

My motto: Errare humanum est.

rjsterry

Tangled Metal wrote:

I gave up Latin at my school. Too easy, so I switched to GCSE ancient Greek from scratch for the challenge.

In the past learning Latin or ancient Greek was a requisite to go to university. The idea was that it's an intellectual exercise that separated the wheat from the chaff academically. IMHO Latin wasn't that hard to learn. Ancient Greek was a decent amount harder to learn. Certainly from scratch to GCSE level. I do still believe that ancient Greek should be taught to all with prospects of a university education. It has merit IMHO. Latin I'd say less so.

It's probably more to do with universities originating as monastic institutions where everything would be written in Latin as a matter of course. Obviously nowadays a lack of Latin is less of a practical hindrance but old habits die hard.

pinno

rjsterry wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:

I...so.

...old habits end up at Christian Aid.

FTFY

rick_chasey

rjsterry wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:

I gave up Latin at my school. Too easy, so I switched to GCSE ancient Greek from scratch for the challenge.

In the past learning Latin or ancient Greek was a requisite to go to university. The idea was that it's an intellectual exercise that separated the wheat from the chaff academically. IMHO Latin wasn't that hard to learn. Ancient Greek was a decent amount harder to learn. Certainly from scratch to GCSE level. I do still believe that ancient Greek should be taught to all with prospects of a university education. It has merit IMHO. Latin I'd say less so.

It's probably more to do with universities originating as monastic institutions where everything would be written in Latin as a matter of course. Obviously nowadays a lack of Latin is less of a practical hindrance but old habits die hard.

Came in handy when I ended up on a Benedictine monasticism course in year 2 at uni.

kingstongraham

rjsterry wrote:

old habits die hard.

The very worst of that franchise.

Stevo_666

Conservatives have a 17 point lead over lavour at the last count:
http://www.ukpolitical.info/General_election_polls.htm

That is a massive lead. Based in this it would seem the electorate think a hard Brexit is way preferable to any Labour government.

tangled_metal

How would that equate in a GE what with the 11% swing needed due to Labour's constituency issue? You know what I mean even if I don't! :?

mrfpb

Tangled Metal wrote:

How would that equate in a GE what with the 11% swing needed due to Labour's constituency issue? You know what I mean even if I don't! :?

WIPEOUT!

While I'm pleased the parties are not contesting Jo Cox's seat at the forthcoming by election, it would have been interesting to see a safe Labour seat contested on the same day as David Cameron's safe Tory seat.

Stevo_666

Add in the boundary changes and the map will be blue if that sort of lead is maintained. And even then, the conclusion in the Corbyn camp would be that Labour lost because they weren't left wing enough...

tangled_metal

I've always liked the colour blue. Why is UK on world maps mostly pink? Can't we get it changed to blue if the political map of UK turns blue?

Alain Quay

" the majority of people would rather the UK have a soft Brexit, which sees the country give concessions on EU immigration in return for access to the single market, a poll has found.

The exclusive survey for The Independent by BMG Research revealed that people preferred the option compared to a hard Brexit that sees the UK leave the single market altogether to gain “full control” of its borders." 1/10/16

---

"the more leaders of parties enjoy the benefits of untrammelled power based
on claims of popular mass support, the more easily they will ride roughshod over minority
interests and rights. The concept of democracy can thereby become distorted to negate
the universal liberal democratic imperative that all people in a democracy, not only
majorities, are entitled to enjoy significant socio-economic and cultural rights and
freedoms. In this way dominant party democracies can hollow out the most basic concepts
of democracy itself."

Stevo_666

Tangled Metal wrote:

I've always liked the colour blue. Why is UK on world maps mostly pink? Can't we get it changed to blue if the political map of UK turns blue?

Liberal/leftie cartographers?

rick_chasey

Stevo 666 wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:

I've always liked the colour blue. Why is UK on world maps mostly pink? Can't we get it changed to blue if the political map of UK turns blue?

Liberal/leftie cartographers?

'Cos Brits always fought in red, and red was the national colour, but red made it difficult to read the map, so they settled for pink.

Stevo_666

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:

I've always liked the colour blue. Why is UK on world maps mostly pink? Can't we get it changed to blue if the political map of UK turns blue?

Liberal/leftie cartographers?

'Cos Brits always fought in red, and red was the national colour, but red made it difficult to read the map, so they settled for pink.

Fair enough, I was wondering. We could do light blue in 2020.

ballysmate

Alain Quay wrote:

" the majority of people would rather the UK have a soft Brexit, which sees the country give concessions on EU immigration in return for access to the single market, a poll has found.

The exclusive survey for The Independent by BMG Research revealed that people preferred the option compared to a hard Brexit that sees the UK leave the single market altogether to gain “full control” of its borders." 1/10/16

---

"the more leaders of parties enjoy the benefits of untrammelled power based
on claims of popular mass support, the more easily they will ride roughshod over minority
interests and rights. The concept of democracy can thereby become distorted to negate
the universal liberal democratic imperative that all people in a democracy, not only
majorities, are entitled to enjoy significant socio-economic and cultural rights and
freedoms. In this way dominant party democracies can hollow out the most basic concepts
of democracy itself."

So we should accept the results of an opinion poll (we remember how accurate they are don't we?) while some on here say that the results of a national referendum should be ignored? :?

Stevo_666

An opinion poll is always right if it supports the views of the liberal left, surely?

rick_chasey

Ballysmate wrote:

Alain Quay wrote:

" the majority of people would rather the UK have a soft Brexit, which sees the country give concessions on EU immigration in return for access to the single market, a poll has found.

The exclusive survey for The Independent by BMG Research revealed that people preferred the option compared to a hard Brexit that sees the UK leave the single market altogether to gain “full control” of its borders." 1/10/16

---

"the more leaders of parties enjoy the benefits of untrammelled power based
on claims of popular mass support, the more easily they will ride roughshod over minority
interests and rights. The concept of democracy can thereby become distorted to negate
the universal liberal democratic imperative that all people in a democracy, not only
majorities, are entitled to enjoy significant socio-economic and cultural rights and
freedoms. In this way dominant party democracies can hollow out the most basic concepts
of democracy itself."

So we should accept the results of an opinion poll (we remember how accurate they are don't we?) while some on here say that the results of a national referendum should be ignored? :?

By the same token, how is Theresa May deciding what type of Brexit people voted for and why?

ballysmate

People have speculated at what our negotiating position is going to be.
Here's Matthew Parris, a fellow remainer, arguing why a soft Brexit is, in his words, "Fantasy Politics"

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/i-hat ... -w8wwpq9fv

rick_chasey

Eugh, Matt Parris. Can't stand him.

ballysmate

Rick Chasey wrote:

Eugh, Matt Parris. Can't stand him.

Bloody hell! Me neither.
That's twice now!

Edit Doesn't necessarily make him wrong though does it?

rick_chasey

He basically read Martin Wolf and realised that Martin is the columnist Matt will never be (i.e. good, well connected, well respected etc), and copied him for the wannabe smart people who read the times 'because it's neutral' (when it clearly isn't).

rick_chasey

On the Heathrow runway...

https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/788458129579212800

ballysmate

Jos Nijhuis is after a place on TMS.

rick_chasey

Rick Chasey wrote:

I do think that while Theresa May parks her tanks on UKIP's lawn, she is forgetting that the Tories won the last election by picking up Lib Dem seats. She may (whey) be calculating that Lib Dems are no so small they won't have the stature to compete with them anyway (and that may well be right) but it's an opportunity to bounce back nonetheless.

On this, seems to have been reasonably correct given the Witney result.

joelsim

Rick Chasey wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

I do think that while Theresa May parks her tanks on UKIP's lawn, she is forgetting that the Tories won the last election by picking up Lib Dem seats. She may (whey) be calculating that Lib Dems are no so small they won't have the stature to compete with them anyway (and that may well be right) but it's an opportunity to bounce back nonetheless.

On this, seems to have been reasonably correct given the Witney result.

Yep, the Demmers have exploited a gap in the market with 'the liberal elite'.

Labour dying a death and has got to be more than a little worrying for the Tories with their majority obliterated.

Stevo_666

One by-election result (in Cameron's old seat) is hardly going to start panic in the Conservative ranks.

Let's keep an eye on this shall we - Lib Dems have a bit of a way to go...
http://www.ukpolitical.info/General_election_polls.htm