Giro d'Italia 2015 Stage 20 ***Spoilers***

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Comments

  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    iainf72 wrote:
    If Contador wins tomorrow, both of his Giro wins will have no stage wins in them.

    And if you included the races he's been stripped of winning, that's 3 Grand Tours he's won without taking a stage. That must be some kind of record.

    To channel 1990s L'Equipe for a moment "Contador sans panache"

    I'm just going to put my tin helmet on now.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • milton50
    milton50 Posts: 3,856
    Very odd decision from Astana. If I was Landa and I had a transfer lined up already then I would have just rode on, won the stage and won the mountain's jersey.

    Aru lost around 2 minutes 50 in the time trial and is going to lose the GC by 2 minutes. He's a great talent but he knows what he needs to work on.
  • argyllflyer
    argyllflyer Posts: 893
    frenchfighter wrote:
    @fredgrappe 54m54 minutes ago View translation
    Le problème dans le Finestre pour Contador c'est de ne pas pouvoir exploiter 100% de sa top technique en danseuse #VeloExtra

    (Contador's problem was his inability to ride out the saddle)

    Flecha highlighted this when he and Le Mond rode up it before the stage - said Bertie's style of riding standing up would not suit the untarmaced surface.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,993
    From Inner Ring
    Landa’s sprint for the Cima Coppi reduced Zakarin’s day long efforts to nothing so the Russian refused to work with Landa on the road to Sestriere. They quarrelled and were duly caught.

    He's got something to learn there.
  • milton50
    milton50 Posts: 3,856
    OnYourRight wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    From Inner Ring
    Landa’s sprint for the Cima Coppi reduced Zakarin’s day long efforts to nothing so the Russian refused to work with Landa on the road to Sestriere. They quarrelled and were duly caught.

    He's got something to learn there.
    Landa wasn’t “caught”. He was told to stop riding and did so.

    +1

    He then rode himself into the ground for Aru. But it was a bit naughty to nip in front of Zakarin to take the Cima Coppi.
  • FJS
    FJS Posts: 4,820
    OnYourRight wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    From Inner Ring
    Landa’s sprint for the Cima Coppi reduced Zakarin’s day long efforts to nothing so the Russian refused to work with Landa on the road to Sestriere. They quarrelled and were duly caught.

    He's got something to learn there.
    Landa wasn’t “caught”. He was told to stop riding and did so.
    The point still stands: at the moment Landa overtook Zakarin on the Finestre summit he didn't know yet he was going to be told to wait for Aru.
    It may even have influenced the Astana DS decision to tell him to wait. If Landa would have had a 1 minute gap on Aru it would be crazy to ask him to wait; Landa would have had the much better opprtunity in GC and stage win. When he was told to wait their gap on Contador wasn't getting any bigger, and the gap on the Aru group was only half a minute or so, which meant 1) Landa was clearly not going to be a threat for Bertie in GC anymore; 2) Landa and Aru posed a similar threat for Bertie in GC. It was only when Landa and Aru's opportunities on the road were starting to be more equal that the Astana DSs decided to prioritise Aru
  • thomthom
    thomthom Posts: 3,574
    No, it wasn't. When Landa went full gas he gained time. And the only reason why the gap to Contador wasn't getting bigger was because the climb hadn't started yet. Contador lost time as soon as they hit the climb again.

    Landa wouldn't have been caught and was the strongest in the group when he was 'back in the group. Aru couldn't stay on his wheel. He then had to pace Aru on the flatter bits before the climb.

    So how was things 'more equal on the road'? There was nothing to prioritise Aru for?

    It was a shot at the overall GC, a certain stage win and the KOM VS an uncertain stage win and no change in the GC whatsoever.
  • FJS
    FJS Posts: 4,820
    ThomThom wrote:
    No, it wasn't. When Landa went full gas he gained time. And the only reason why the gap to Contador wasn't getting bigger was because the climb hadn't started yet. Contador lost time as soon as they hit the climb again.

    Landa wouldn't have been caught and was the strongest in the group when he was 'back in the group. Aru couldn't stay on his wheel. He then had to pace Aru on the flatter bits before the climb.

    So how was things 'more equal on the road'? There was nothing to prioritise Aru for?

    It was a shot at the overall GC, a certain stage win and the KOM VS an uncertain stage win and no change in the GC whatsoever.
    Do you really disagree that Zakarin helping Landa with turns at the front would have been an advantage for Landa?
    Do you really disagree that the gap between Landa and Aru (if it would have been 2 minutes, say, for example, instead of 30 seconds) might not have influenced the Astana DS to tell Landa to wait?

    At the bottom of the Finestre descent Landa and Zakarin had almost a minute on the Aru group. When the Sestriere climb started (and Landa still riding full gas on the flat, although on his own against a group of chasers) that gap had been brought back to about 30 seconds. More or less the difference between Aru and Landa in GC.

    I am not saying that it wasn't a disgrace to ask Landa to wait. I'm not saying he had the better opportunities for stage win (GC win was pretty much impossible by then). All I'm saying is that Landa did not help himself by snatching the Cima Coppi from Zakarin
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    Given events it's hard to see Landa's escape on Finestre as an authorized attempt to win. Was it a ploy to make Contador chase for a later Aru attack? Mugging Zakarin must be the worst mistake Landa will ever make. Cooperating on the descent could have settled the question on the road before Aru got down.
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • ocdupalais
    ocdupalais Posts: 4,317
    ThomThom wrote:
    It was a shot at the overall GC, a certain stage win and the KOM VS an uncertain stage win and no change in the GC whatsoever.

    The only rider Landa could really challenge on GC was Aru - unless Contador had a major accident, there was no way Landa was going to make up 5 min on him.
  • thomthom
    thomthom Posts: 3,574
    What makes you sure that Zakarin had anything to offer? Being two on the descent doesn't matter, it can even be be a distaction. Zakarin was dropped immediately when they were back in the Aru group, completely empty.. He was always going to sit wheels on Landa and Landa was always going to win that stage so why not take the KOM as well.
  • thomthom
    thomthom Posts: 3,574
    OCDuPalais wrote:
    ThomThom wrote:
    It was a shot at the overall GC, a certain stage win and the KOM VS an uncertain stage win and no change in the GC whatsoever.

    The only rider Landa could really challenge on GC was Aru - unless Contador had a major accident, there was no way Landa was going to make up 5 min on him.

    See, this would makes sense before the stage. What happened was Contador, in fact, did have what could be the equivalent of an accident: He blew. With 30km to go Landa had 3 minutes to Contador. That might not be alarming just yet for Alberto but you sure give it a go if you are Astana.. Bringing back Landa when he is just about to reach that part of the profile after the descent where he is the best and will gain time is just baffling. Taking away a certain stage win and KOM win.
  • milton50
    milton50 Posts: 3,856
    FJS wrote:
    ThomThom wrote:
    No, it wasn't. When Landa went full gas he gained time. And the only reason why the gap to Contador wasn't getting bigger was because the climb hadn't started yet. Contador lost time as soon as they hit the climb again.

    Landa wouldn't have been caught and was the strongest in the group when he was 'back in the group. Aru couldn't stay on his wheel. He then had to pace Aru on the flatter bits before the climb.

    So how was things 'more equal on the road'? There was nothing to prioritise Aru for?

    It was a shot at the overall GC, a certain stage win and the KOM VS an uncertain stage win and no change in the GC whatsoever.
    Do you really disagree that Zakarin helping Landa with turns at the front would have been an advantage for Landa?
    Do you really disagree that the gap between Landa and Aru (if it would have been 2 minutes, say, for example, instead of 30 seconds) might not have influenced the Astana DS to tell Landa to wait?

    At the bottom of the Finestre descent Landa and Zakarin had almost a minute on the Aru group. When the Sestriere climb started (and Landa still riding full gas on the flat, although on his own against a group of chasers) that gap had been brought back to about 30 seconds. More or less the difference between Aru and Landa in GC.

    I am not saying that it wasn't a disgrace to ask Landa to wait. I'm not saying he had the better opportunities for stage win (GC win was pretty much impossible by then). All I'm saying is that Landa did not help himself by snatching the Cima Coppi from Zakarin

    Zakarin had nothing left to help Landa. I agree with you that Landa should have tried to work with Zakarin because presumably he didn't know Zakarin was spent and could have done with his help. However, in this case the only thing that didn't help Landa was the Astana DS.
  • ocdupalais
    ocdupalais Posts: 4,317
    ThomThom wrote:
    OCDuPalais wrote:
    ThomThom wrote:
    It was a shot at the overall GC, a certain stage win and the KOM VS an uncertain stage win and no change in the GC whatsoever.

    The only rider Landa could really challenge on GC was Aru - unless Contador had a major accident, there was no way Landa was going to make up 5 min on him.

    See, this would makes sense before the stage. What happened was Contador, in fact, did have what could be the equivalent of an accident: He blew. With 30km to go Landa had 3 minutes to Contador. That might not be alarming just yet for Alberto but you sure give it a go if you are Astana.. Bringing back Landa when he is just about to reach that part of the profile after the descent where he is the best and will gain time is just baffling. Taking away a certain stage win and KOM win.

    !?... with 30km to go, Landa had about 45" on Contador
  • FJS
    FJS Posts: 4,820
    Milton50 wrote:
    Zakarin had nothing left to help Landa. I agree with you that Landa should have tried to work with Zakarin because presumably he didn't know Zakarin was spent and could have done with his help. However, in this case the only thing that didn't help Landa was the Astana DS.
    I agree Zakarin didn't have much left in the tank, but Landa didn't know that, and even a bit of help (which Zakarin might well have been willing to give for a stage placing and in return for being gifted the Cima Coppi) could have kept them far enough ahead to keep Astana DSs from giving their orders to wait.
  • thomthom
    thomthom Posts: 3,574
    OCDuPalais wrote:
    !?... with 30km to go, Landa had about 45" on Contador

    I'm talking about the virtual GC. It was more like 3:30 than 3 minutes dead though at the 25km to go mark.. But that's nothing if you blow up completely with still a climb left to the finish.
  • ocdupalais
    ocdupalais Posts: 4,317
    Contador needs some lessons on how to blow properly - what he suffered was the elite athlete's version of "blowing" - the loss of his top end power to match the others on a major climb as it hit the 2000m mark. He was still able to generate enough power to singlehandedly peg the lead group of riders to a manageable time loss over 30km...
  • thomthom
    thomthom Posts: 3,574
    Which is why he is now winning the Giro..

    But there's little credit to gain for knowing he'd do proper damage control 24 hours later the race ended...
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    OCDuPalais wrote:
    Contador needs some lessons on how to blow properly - what he suffered was the elite athlete's version of "blowing" - the loss of his top end power to match the others on a major climb as it hit the 2000m mark. He was still able to generate enough power to singlehandedly peg the lead group of riders to a manageable time loss over 30km...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukhjB1swJSs

    In fairness, he knows how to do it.
    _
  • alihisgreat
    alihisgreat Posts: 3,872
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    OCDuPalais wrote:
    Contador needs some lessons on how to blow properly - what he suffered was the elite athlete's version of "blowing" - the loss of his top end power to match the others on a major climb as it hit the 2000m mark. He was still able to generate enough power to singlehandedly peg the lead group of riders to a manageable time loss over 30km...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukhjB1swJSs

    In fairness, he knows how to do it.

    A great accompaniment to 10 mins of over/under intervals in The Sufferfest's Angels video.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    TheBigBean wrote:
    From Inner Ring
    Landa’s sprint for the Cima Coppi reduced Zakarin’s day long efforts to nothing so the Russian refused to work with Landa on the road to Sestriere. They quarrelled and were duly caught.

    He's got something to learn there.

    100%. If he hadn't been the dick that he has shown himself to be he would have let Zakarin take the climb and then Zakarin would have worked with him and Landa would have had a much larger margin by the base of the climb and there is no chance he was getting pulled back by Astana DS.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • thomthom
    thomthom Posts: 3,574
    Lol.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Yes, lol yourself to sleep TT.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    tumblr_np7jx5iexm1qg4jy9o1_1280.jpg
    Contador is the Greatest
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Sestriere
    2015:10,6 km@4,8%---21:58---average speed 28.95 km/h(Fabio Aru)
    ---22:16---average speed 28.56 km/h(Ryder Hesjedal)
    ---22:22---average speed 28.44 km/h(Rigoberto Uran)
    ---22:32---average speed 28.22 km/h(Steven Kruijswijk)
    ---22:54---average speed 27.77 km/h(Pellizotti-Konig-Rosa-Caruso)
    2011:10,6 km@4,8%---22:45---average speed 27.96 km/h(Joaquim Rodriguez)
    ---23:50---average speed 26.69 km/h(John Gadret)
    ---23:55---average speed 26.59 km/h(Scarponi-Kruijswijk-Contador-Menchov)
    ---24:12---average speed 26.28 km/h(Roman Kreuziger)
    ---24:15---average speed 26.23 km/h(Jose Rujano)
    2005:10,3 km@5,0%---21:54---average speed 28.22 km/h(Jose Rujano)
    ---22:10---average speed 27.88 km/h(Juan Manuel Garate)
    ---22:12---average speed 27.84 km/h(Van Huffel-Gonchar-Savoldelli-Valjavec)
    ---22:20---average speed 27.67 km/h(Gilberto Simoni)
    ---22:55---average speed 26.97 km/h(Mauricio Ardila)

    --

    Colle delle Finestre
    2015:18,3 km@9,2%---1:02:51---average speed 17.47 km/h(Mikel Landa)
    ---1:03:26---average speed 17.31 km/h(Hesjedal-Uran-Aru)
    ---1:03:34---average speed 17.27 km/h(Ilnur Zakarin)
    ---1:04:22---average speed 17.06 km/h (Alberto Contador)
    2011:18,3 km@9,2%---1:02:09---average speed 17.67 km/h(Jose Rujano)-RECORD
    ---1:03:44---average speed 17.23 km/h(Rodriguez-Contador-Kruijswijk-Scarponi-Gadret-Menchov)
    ---1:03:59---average speed 17.16 km/h(Vincenzo Nibali)
    ---1:04:00---average speed 17.16 km/h(Vasil Kiryienka)
    2005:18,3 km@9,2%---1:03:34---average speed 17.27 km/h(Di Luca-Simoni-Rujano)
    ---1:04:44---average speed 16.96 km/h(Valjavec-Garate)
    ---1:05:31---average speed 16.76 km/h(Gonchar-Van Huffel)
    ---1:05:53---average speed 16.67 km/h(Savoldelli-Atienza-Ardila)

    http://www.climbing-records.com/2015/05 ... riere.html
    Contador is the Greatest
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Hold onto your hotseats as Gruber's race photos are out. Some stunning ones as expected. Tifosi are immense and so much better than in the Tour.

    http://stories.strava.com/race-day-fine ... 3pu8frke7k

    And then my man Hanseeno making his moves:
    original.jpg
    Contador is the Greatest
  • the article don
    the article don Posts: 578
    ^ Adam Hansen is a total "G". Respect.

    Wonder if he'll be doing all 3 again this year
    Giant Trance X 2010
    Specialized Tricross Sport
    My Dad's old racer
    Trek Marlin 29er 2012
  • nic_77
    nic_77 Posts: 929
    frenchfighter wrote:
    And then my man Hanseeno making his moves:
    original.jpg
    Wearing a Garmin 920XT watch... doesn't look like he has another headunit on his bars either
    Strava
    Race reports
    Bike Aero Data
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    nic_77 wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    And then my man Hanseeno making his moves:
    original.jpg
    Wearing a Garmin 920XT watch... doesn't look like he has another headunit on his bars either

    Such a mistake that.

    If it's on the bike it counts towards the minimum bike weight.

    So if you whack it on your bike, you can shave off a few grams elsewhere.

    That's the one trick speedplay are missing by putting the heavy part of the pedal on the shoe.
    _
  • salsiccia1
    salsiccia1 Posts: 3,725
    frenchfighter wrote:
    original.jpg

    Hansen is the absolute bollocks, isn't he? :D
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.

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