Giro d'Italia 2015 Stage 20 ***Spoilers***

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  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,582
    frenchfighter wrote:
    @fredgrappe 54m54 minutes ago View translation
    Le problème dans le Finestre pour Contador c'est de ne pas pouvoir exploiter 100% de sa top technique en danseuse #VeloExtra

    (Contador's problem was his inability to ride out the saddle)

    Yep, I find it harder to ride out of the saddle when I've blown too.
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    Lemond is scathing about Astana's team failure to take full advantage of 3 riders ahead of Contador over the top.
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • thomthom
    thomthom Posts: 3,574
    I'm still laughing at Astana.

    Traded a Landa stage win and the KOM and a shot for the overall victory for an uncertain Aru stage win and no change in the GC.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Every single time Konig is interviewed all he says is that he is cross with his time lost in a crash. Man up Konig, that's racing. You need to ride the front yourself instead of suck wheels if you want to get the time back.

    Hesjedal - very pleased he is 5th.

    Aru is not 'remarkably' recovered. He had a couple of bad days - it doesn't mean he needs to not perform the next day does it. Contador had a bad day today. It happens over three weeks and more especially when you are 25. Aru is a complete and utter champion, Contador has a lot of respect for him. Watch out for him.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    Strange tactics from Astana there. Think if they had ridden differently in the last couple of stages, they might have won this race. Also they should have hold Tanel Kangert not to ride behind Contador, there is a aero gain from doing so.

    Has Contador ever blown up like this in a GT? Wonder if anyone wants to change their mind on Contador going on to win the Tour this year?
  • mechanism
    mechanism Posts: 891
    He couldn't ride out-of-the-saddle due to the loose surface, isn't that what he means?
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    ThomThom wrote:
    I'm still laughing at Astana.

    Traded a Landa stage win and the KOM and a shot for the overall victory for an uncertain Aru stage win and no change in the GC.

    Get over it. Your Landa love is misplaced. He would never have beaten Contador.

    Furthermore, one needs to explain how Landa can come out of relative nowhere with low GC placings over the last few years to almost being as good as Contador. His contract is up at the end of the year. Cannot trust a man with eyebrows like his.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • thomthom
    thomthom Posts: 3,574
    edited May 2015
    greasedscotsman wrote:

    Has Contador ever blown up like this in a GT?

    No, Contador usually got an excuse ready. I'm not sure he can use his allergy on this one, though.
  • thomthom
    thomthom Posts: 3,574
    frenchfighter wrote:
    ThomThom wrote:
    I'm still laughing at Astana.

    Traded a Landa stage win and the KOM and a shot for the overall victory for an uncertain Aru stage win and no change in the GC.

    Get over it. Your Landa love is misplaced. He would never have beaten Contador.

    Couldn't care less if it was Landa or someone else. I'm just commentating on their tactics - if you can call them that.. But yes, without Aru Landa could have won this thing.
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    Contador has won the same number of stages as Aru PTP GC picks.
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    greasedscotsman wrote:
    Strange tactics from Astana there. Think if they had ridden differently in the last couple of stages, they might have won this race. Also they should have hold Tanel Kangert not to ride behind Contador, there is a aero gain from doing so.

    Has Contador ever blown up like this in a GT? Wonder if anyone wants to change their mind on Contador going on to win the Tour this year?

    1. there is no way they are taking another two mins for Aru and three for Landa today. They collaborated well and still couldn't put more time into a solo rider riding off a complete bonk.

    2. Maybe not a GT but a major bonk in 2009 cost him the Paris Nice win.

    3. If you bonk once on a climb then that means completey zero in terms of whether he will win the Tour. My comments remain completely,

    4. He rode every single mountain by himself vs 5-7 Astana.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Mechanism wrote:
    He couldn't ride out-of-the-saddle due to the loose surface, isn't that what he means?

    Yes. Which is certainly true but I think it was a ton much more due to a bonk.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    ThomThom wrote:
    But yes, without Aru Landa could have won this thing.

    Would you like to explain where he would have found another 3/4 mins? :roll:
    Contador is the Greatest
  • hammerite
    hammerite Posts: 3,408
    Mechanism wrote:
    He couldn't ride out-of-the-saddle due to the loose surface, isn't that what he means?

    That is exactly what I thought and I think Flecha/LeMond said it after riding the climb this morning.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Landa rode the Giro and the Vuelta last year. His placings were 34th and 28th.

    Aru rode the Giro and the Vuelta last year. His placings were 3rd and 5th.

    Aru all day every day over Landa.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • thomthom
    thomthom Posts: 3,574
    edited May 2015
    frenchfighter wrote:
    ThomThom wrote:
    But yes, without Aru Landa could have won this thing.

    Would you like to explain where he would have found another 3/4 mins? :roll:

    He wasn't allowed anything until 6 days before the end of the GT when they realised he was the best climber in the race. Lost two minutes just by having to wait for Aru today for reasons no one can defend.

    I'm not blaming Astana for having Aru as captain until that but I'm blaming them for their hilarious tactics today.
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    frenchfighter wrote:
    1. there is no way they are taking another two mins for Aru and three for Landa today. They collaborated well and still couldn't put more time into a solo rider riding off a complete bonk.

    2. Maybe not a GT but a major bonk in 2009 cost him the Paris Nice win.

    3. If you bonk once on a climb then that means completey zero in terms of whether he will win the Tour. My comments remain completely,

    4. He rode every single mountain by himself vs 5-7 Astana.

    1. I said over the last two stages, not just today. I questioned yesterday if he was tired, seems like he was. If Astana had gone for it yesterday as well as today, they mighthave won.

    2. OK, interesting.

    3. Again, seems to me he wasn't at his best yesterday as well as today. Don't think he just bonked. So, does that change anyone's thoughts.

    4. So what?
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    ThomThom wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    ThomThom wrote:
    But yes, without Aru Landa could have won this thing.

    Would you like to explain where he would have found another 3/4 mins? :roll:

    He wasn't allowed anything until 6 days before the end of the GT when they realised he was the best climber in the race. Lost two minutes just by having to wait for Aru today for reasons no one can defend.

    He got dropped on the first climb.
    He gained a handful of seconds on the next.
    He didn't best Contador on the Mortirolo.
    He got bested by Contador the next day.
    He didn't lose time in the crash - Contador lost almost a minute.
    Today he would have been caught by Aru's group anyway and even if he didn't then he wouldn't have got much more time at all.

    Still got some work to do to find the 3/4 mins he needed to win?
    Contador is the Greatest
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    Mechanism wrote:
    He couldn't ride out-of-the-saddle due to the loose surface, isn't that what he means?

    He's ridden over Colle delle Finestre at the Giro before though, hasn't he? Did he have problems then, I can't remember.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    greasedscotsman wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    1. there is no way they are taking another two mins for Aru and three for Landa today. They collaborated well and still couldn't put more time into a solo rider riding off a complete bonk.

    2. Maybe not a GT but a major bonk in 2009 cost him the Paris Nice win.

    3. If you bonk once on a climb then that means completey zero in terms of whether he will win the Tour. My comments remain completely,

    4. He rode every single mountain by himself vs 5-7 Astana.

    1. I said over the last two stages, not just today. I questioned yesterday if he was tired, seems like he was. If Astana had gone for it yesterday as well as today, they mighthave won.

    2. OK, interesting.

    3. Again, seems to me he wasn't at his best yesterday as well as today. Don't think he just bonked. So, does that change anyone's thoughts.

    4. So what?

    1. Astana in Aru gained 1'18'' on Contador. That's a result. In my opinion it was a mistake to let Aru go and think Contador looked more than comfortable. I just think given his excesses over the previous two days he didn't want to make another one. It was a long attack from Aru.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    greasedscotsman wrote:
    Mechanism wrote:
    He couldn't ride out-of-the-saddle due to the loose surface, isn't that what he means?

    He's ridden over Colle delle Finestre at the Giro before though, hasn't he? Did he have problems then, I can't remember.

    No.

    Stage 20 results
    1 KIRYIENKA Vasili BLR MOV 6:17:03 - 20"
    2 RUJANO GUILLEN Jose' VEN AND 6:21:46 + 4:43 - 12"
    3 RODRIGUEZ Joaquin ESP KAT 6:21:53 + 4:50 - 8"
    4 BETANCOURT Carlos A. COL ASA 6:22:34 + 5:31
    5 GADRET John FRA ALM 6:22:57 + 5:54
    6 SCARPONI Michele ITA LAM 6:23:01 + 5:58
    7 KRUIJSWIJK Steven NED RAB
    8 CONTADOR Alberto ESP SBS
    9 MENCHOV Denis RUS GEO
    10 KREUZIGER Roman CZE AST 6:23:19 + 6:16
    11 NIBALI Vincenzo ITA LIQ 6:23:23 + 6:20

    Nb. worth noting who finished ahead of Contador!

    It would have certainly helped if he could dance but it is clear he had a major bonk. Bobby Jullich even said how he had noticed how much Contador had been trying to eat leading up to the climb. Tinkoff's initial show of force at the bottom of the climb may have been a bluff. Martinelli knows Contador well though so maybe saw he was hurting where others wouldn't and told Landa to try.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • thomthom
    thomthom Posts: 3,574
    edited May 2015
    frenchfighter wrote:
    ThomThom wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    ThomThom wrote:
    But yes, without Aru Landa could have won this thing.

    Would you like to explain where he would have found another 3/4 mins? :roll:

    He wasn't allowed anything until 6 days before the end of the GT when they realised he was the best climber in the race. Lost two minutes just by having to wait for Aru today for reasons no one can defend.

    He got dropped on the first climb.
    He gained a handful of seconds on the next.
    He didn't best Contador on the Mortirolo.
    He got bested by Contador the next day.
    He didn't lose time in the crash - Contador lost almost a minute.
    Today he would have been caught by Aru's group anyway and even if he didn't then he wouldn't have got much more time at all.

    Landa got dropped when he had worked for Aru. Who did Contador have to work for again?..

    Look, what I'm saying is, had Landa been the captain from stage 1 he could have won the thing. I'm not blaming Astana for not knowing this up until Landa really showed how good he was.

    Landa was a victim of a disgraceful act today that favoured Aru for no reason. Probably called from the top, in Vinokourov. He was just interviewed and talked nonsense about the tactics.

    And no, that group would not have caught Landa. Landa was pacing the group.

    Is Landa already in talks with another team? It would seem so..
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,266
    Contador's greatest GT win... no longer at his best, without a team... still manages to bring the jersey home... he has all the reasons to celebrate on a "bad day"... what a great champion!
    left the forum March 2023
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,157
    Oleg has turned up on RAI's post stage show alongside the three podium riders to try and grab the glory for himself. I don't speak Italian but I'm not sure he was invited.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • norvernrob
    norvernrob Posts: 1,447
    If Froome and Quintana turn up the the Tour on form, Contador is getting smashed.
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    ThomThom wrote:
    Look, what I'm saying is, had Landa been the captain from stage 1 he could have won the thing. I'm not blaming Astana for not knowing this up until Landa really showed how good he was.

    Totally agree. Don't think they would have needed to ride for Landa from stage 1. They could have even switched on the Mortirolo. Maybe Contador wouldn't have caught Landa if he had ridden for himself.

    But it's all speculation. Easy to say it now. It's not the first time something like this has happened. It's a bit like Indurain riding for Delgado at the 1990 Tour (if anyone can remember that).
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Contador's greatest GT win... no longer at his best, without a team... still manages to bring the jersey home... he has all the reasons to celebrate on a "bad day"... what a great champion!

    Don't agree. 2009 was his best, most of his team trying to undermine him.
  • specialgueststar
    specialgueststar Posts: 3,418
    greasedscotsman wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Contador's greatest GT win... no longer at his best, without a team... still manages to bring the jersey home... he has all the reasons to celebrate on a "bad day"... what a great champion!

    Don't agree. 2009 was his best, most of his team trying to undermine him.

    are you sure - I thought that team was close

    10162216_073.jpg
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    Fantastic race. Amazingly good given the lack of even mild GC drama. Everybody will be guessing at the Tour. Nobody looks bullet-proof. Nibali has the track-record.

    But pulling back Landa for Aru to win the stage was a Formula 1 move. Shoddy.
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,863
    they had no idea how bad contadors cracking was...they should have ridden for gc.
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm

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