BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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Not sure what the link proves Ugo? that a load of greedy LL's have snapped up properties, denying genuine 1st time buyers from competing in the housing market?
However, these attempts at raising the level of argument are pointless....
Not only are we heading for WW3 if we vote OUT, now, the aims of the EU are being compared to Napoleon and Hitler....
Perhaps the only way forward is to have a boycott of the vote? tbh these people, in and out, are doing more to ensure that people dont bother to vote than any amount of change.org petitions ever could.0 -
Mamba has a point - what does that link have to do with overcrowding?ugo.santalucia wrote:"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
Mamba has a point - what does that link have to do with overcrowding?ugo.santalucia wrote:
jeez mate, the sun is out, i ve just done a nice 100miler and we are in agreement :shock: ... all is well with the world
and to top it all off, Mercedes didnt win :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:0 -
I'm just waiting for Elvis and the Loch Ness Monster to make an appearance
Has to be said, Ugo's link is so irrelevant to the underlying point that first time I looked I thought I must be missing something. It was only when I looked again that I realised I wasn't.
'Tis indeed a lovely day, just a pity I haven't been out on my bike!"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:I'm just waiting for Elvis and the Loch Ness Monster to make an appearance
Has to be said, Ugo's link is so irrelevant to the underlying point that first time I looked I thought I must be missing something. It was only when I looked again that I realised I wasn't.
'Tis indeed a lovely day, just a pity I haven't been out on my bike!
The point is that despite all the alarmism... there are empty properties, admittedly not as many as in Italy, but still a fewleft the forum March 20230 -
Tangled Metal wrote:The main Brexit group is trying to argue on a wider range of topics. Yet most pro Brexit posters on here seem to mostly post on immigration. Widen the arguments guys immigration isn't the only narrative.
Good post TM.
What swung the vote decision for me was the lack of reform achieved by David Cameron in February. This was with a referendum vote looming. The fact David Cameron also came back and declared this as victory for the UK was insulting to the British Electorate.
Everyone in the remain camp knows that the EU needs reforming, in fact their campaign is that we have to be in to reform it. However with a referendum vote looming the EU demonstrated how open it was to reform. If we vote REMAIN the EU will see this as justification of the current set-up and any suggested reforms will just be ignored/voted down!
We will only achieve any sort of EU reform by voting LEAVE. Then reform will happen as the EU cannot let the second strongest nation leave the project as it will trigger a tidal wave of other countries doing exactly the same. Not to mention the huge loss of benefits that the UK provides the EU.
I fully expect a second referendum within 12 month after some proper reform has occurred in the EU in which the concerns of the British public will have been taken into account. The will not happen if we vote to stay IN.0 -
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Rick Chasey wrote:So you're saying vote leave to stay in?
That makes literally no sense.
Do you read the post? It was quite simple!
We will not get the reforms we want by voting to stay in. This is blindingly obvious to me as can be seen from the February negotiations(with a referendum vote looming).
There will be a huge lack of confidence shown up in the project by the UK(the second strongest country) leaving and thus negotiations will take place that will be good enough to get a UK remain vote. I'm confident there will be a second vote to get the result the EU wants.
If that does not happen I'm confident the UK will demonstrate very quickly it is a stronger country OUT than IN the EU. This is the EU's biggest fear hence the reason they will reform as the UK wants and we'll get a second referendum.0 -
If the UK votes to leave, that's it.
That's not the beginning of a negotiation on the UK leaving or not.0 -
Coopster the 1st wrote:If that does not happen I'm confident the UK will demonstrate very quickly it is a stronger country OUT than IN the EU.
How's that going to happen then Mr Confident? 'Cos some xxxxwit Old Etonian says so?
Your posts smack of "you'll be sorry when..." childspeak. Meanwhile back in knuckle-dragger-land, it's all about the immigration racism innit.0 -
orraloon wrote:Coopster the 1st wrote:If that does not happen I'm confident the UK will demonstrate very quickly it is a stronger country OUT than IN the EU.
How's that going to happen then Mr Confident? 'Cos some xxxxwit Old Etonian says so?
Your posts smack of "you'll be sorry when..." childspeak. Meanwhile back in knuckle-dragger-land, it's all about the immigration racism innit.
the EU or rather the EEC operated just dandy without the UK for many years, we ve been a pia for the europeans and i suspect that many countries will be pleased to see us go, our lack of getting any real reforms or opt outs, were down to DC not asking for much in the first.
this vote isnt some treaty change that can be argued about time an again until the electorate vote yes, this is the real deal and out will be out for decades and that as i ve said before is why we should never have had a vote because for many people, the issue is about immigration and its far more than that.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:If the UK votes to leave, that's it.
That's not the beginning of a negotiation on the UK leaving or not.
If we leave what happens to the EU? Which country would be next to hold a referendum? How long will the EU survive when that happens? 5, maybe 10 years
Looks at the way the financial markets reacted to the EU when there was a risk of Greece leaving last year. They are minor in comparison to the size and influence that the UK has on the EU. Not to mention we are one of its largest funders.
The EU cannot let the UK leave if the EU wants to stay together. We will get the reforms the UK electorate wants and then another referendum.0 -
orraloon wrote:Coopster the 1st wrote:If that does not happen I'm confident the UK will demonstrate very quickly it is a stronger country OUT than IN the EU.
How's that going to happen then Mr Confident? 'Cos some xxxxwit Old Etonian says so?
Your posts smack of "you'll be sorry when..." childspeak. Meanwhile back in knuckle-dragger-land, it's all about the immigration racism innit. :roll:
So in your short rant above you prove you are unable to (intelligently) discuss or refute in an adult way the alternative view put to you so you just try to discredit with it's all about racism. You could not be more wrong! :P
You are no different to David Cameron saying leaving the EU risks another world war. It's all project Fear or the LEAVERS are racist!
There is nothing positive that comes out of the REMAIN camp and you are proof of that.
We are the 5th biggest economy in the world. The REMAIN camp believe we are unable to continue or improve in the world without being in the EU. Again it is al project Fear and negativity. Personally I have much more confidence in the UK and its people and we will not suffer as described by the FEAR camps0 -
Coopster the 1st wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:If the UK votes to leave, that's it.
That's not the beginning of a negotiation on the UK leaving or not.
If we leave what happens to the EU? Which country would be next to hold a referendum? How long will the EU survive when that happens? 5, maybe 10 years
Looks at the way the financial markets reacted to the EU when there was a risk of Greece leaving last year. They are minor in comparison to the size and influence that the UK has on the EU. Not to mention we are one of its largest funders.
The EU cannot let the UK leave if the EU wants to stay together. We will get the reforms the UK electorate wants and then another referendum.
Ah ok.
You're in fantasy land.
It's not about the EU letting the Uk leave. It's in the constitution. If the UK gov't decides to leave that's it.
No gov't could go to the electorate after the electorate voting to leave and say "it's different now".
That's it.0 -
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Coopster the 1st wrote:We are the 5th biggest economy in the world. The REMAIN camp believe we are unable to continue or improve in the world without being in the EU. Again it is al project Fear and negativity. Personally I have much more confidence in the UK and its people and we will not suffer as described by the FEAR camps
You cant know that, our 5th largest bit is largely based on financial services and not an inconsiderable amount of extremely rich individuals living in london and our SE property market.
we r not some sort of manufacturing super power like Germany - what would happen if those banks relocated to Frankfurt ? what would we replace them with? a resurgent car industry? talking of which, how many overseas car makers would stay in the UK ?
Voting OUT is a leap in the dark, gambling with real peoples lives, mortgages and jobs, that we can become what we were in the 19C, the reality is that we cannot even build a new nuclear PS or a new railway, without foreign aid.0 -
orraloon wrote:Coopster the 1st wrote:If that does not happen I'm confident the UK will demonstrate very quickly it is a stronger country OUT than IN the EU.
How's that going to happen then Mr Confident?
I repeat the question. How?0 -
mamba80 wrote:Coopster the 1st wrote:We are the 5th biggest economy in the world. The REMAIN camp believe we are unable to continue or improve in the world without being in the EU. Again it is al project Fear and negativity. Personally I have much more confidence in the UK and its people and we will not suffer as described by the FEAR camps
You cant know that, our 5th largest bit is largely based on financial services and not an inconsiderable amount of extremely rich individuals living in london and our SE property market.
we r not some sort of manufacturing super power like Germany - what would happen if those banks relocated to Frankfurt ? what would we replace them with? a resurgent car industry? talking of which, how many overseas car makers would stay in the UK ?
Voting OUT is a leap in the dark, gambling with real peoples lives, mortgages and jobs, that we can become what we were in the 19C, the reality is that we cannot even build a new nuclear PS or a new railway, without foreign aid.
Why would the banks relocate?
- Every bank I know has an office or subsidiary in the EU so business can transact as normal.
- HSBC were recently looking to relocate. Their choices were Singapore or London. Not once was Frankfurt mentioned so why would that change now less than 6 months later
- The EU wants to impose a transaction tax (0.5% on every transaction). The UK will not. I am sure the banks are very pro this tax!
- There is the social side to all employees, their wives, children, schooling, friends, etc. This applies to the board members down to the receptionist. It is not all about money.
The threat of banks relocating is just more project Fear.
And all overseas car makers would stay where they are. If they were to relocate it would be to China and not the EU as that is one way they can gain access to that market, as well as cheap labour.0 -
Why would banks relocate from London in the event of a Brexit?
Same reason why Switzerland doesn't do as much banking as London, despite more favourable taxes.
Mainly that as part of the EU UK registered FS firms can operate across the EU. This is known as passporting. That's why all the major FS players have a big London office. It's their European HQ.
That would not be possible if Brexit occurred.0 -
STOP DOING BRITAIN DOWN YOU FILTHY SCAREMONGER IN THE PAY OF THE FASCIST EUSSR SUPERSTATE!!!!!!Rick Chasey wrote:Why would banks relocate from London in the event of a Brexit?
Same reason why Switzerland doesn't do as much banking as London, despite more favourable taxes.
Mainly that as part of the EU UK registered FS firms can operate across the EU. This is known as passporting. That's why all the major FS players have a big London office. It's their European HQ.
That would not be possible if Brexit occurred.
or something like that0 -
orraloon wrote:orraloon wrote:Coopster the 1st wrote:If that does not happen I'm confident the UK will demonstrate very quickly it is a stronger country OUT than IN the EU.
How's that going to happen then Mr Confident?
I repeat the question. How?
It's all around business and investment confidence.
All the UK will have to do is beat the armageddon predictions from the IMF, OECD, etc. And from their predictions they are setting the bar very low.
Once the world realises the negative views are not occurring investment confidence will stay and increase in the UK and this have a positive effect. However, this will have a magnifying negative effect to confidence in the EU as we are being sold that the 5th biggest economy cannot cope outside of the EU blanket :roll:
This is without the additional £8bn* a year the UK will have to spend on it's own economy.
*Figure taken from the BBC0 -
Coopster the 1st wrote:orraloon wrote:orraloon wrote:Coopster the 1st wrote:If that does not happen I'm confident the UK will demonstrate very quickly it is a stronger country OUT than IN the EU.
How's that going to happen then Mr Confident?
I repeat the question. How?
It's all around business and investment confidence.
All the UK will have to do is beat the armageddon predictions from the IMF, OECD, etc. And from their predictions they are setting the bar very low.
Once the world realises the negative views are not occurring investment confidence will stay and increase in the UK and this have a positive effect. However, this will have a magnifying negative effect to confidence in the EU as we are being sold that the 5th biggest economy cannot cope outside of the EU blanket :roll:
This is without the additional £8bn* a year the UK will have to spend on it's own economy.
*Figure taken from the BBC
Sorry pal, that is Project Fantasy blether. You don't say anything about How "the UK will...beat...predictions" or How "investment confidence will...increase"
UK is a natural resources light, manufacturing light, if figures are to be believed productivity light, small cold island in a hostile world, great idea to isolate ourselves further eh? Bring on the magic beans.0 -
Coopster the 1st wrote:orraloon wrote:orraloon wrote:Coopster the 1st wrote:If that does not happen I'm confident the UK will demonstrate very quickly it is a stronger country OUT than IN the EU.
How's that going to happen then Mr Confident?
I repeat the question. How?
It's all around business and investment confidence.
All the UK will have to do is beat the armageddon predictions from the IMF, OECD, etc. And from their predictions they are setting the bar very low.
Once the world realises the negative views are not occurring investment confidence will stay and increase in the UK and this have a positive effect. However, this will have a magnifying negative effect to confidence in the EU as we are being sold that the 5th biggest economy cannot cope outside of the EU blanket :roll:
This is without the additional £8bn* a year the UK will have to spend on it's own economy.
*Figure taken from the BBC
You should check out the official Brexit line - they concede that we will be worse off economically in the short-term (anything up to 20 years).
To take you examples - financial services firms have advanced plans to shift significant numbers of jobs to the EU.
Car industry will not relocate but they will stop investing in the UK and this will result in a steady decline.
All this does not matter though as we will have increased sovereignty - whatever that might mean0 -
Surrey Commuter wrote:All this does not matter though as we will have increased sovereignty - whatever that might mean
Ah, remember King Cnut/Canute? Good thing, that increased "sovereignty".0 -
Ultimately brexiters are grass-is-greener-on-the-other-side fantasists.
Every claim they make gets debunked. When that happens they stick their fingers in their ears, sing rule Britania very loudly and dream of a 'better time' when Europe was ablaze and millions were being killed.0 -
Donald Drunk is supporting Brexit, isn't that a good enough argument to vote "Stay"?left the forum March 20230
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Rick Chasey wrote:Ultimately brexiters are grass-is-greener-on-the-other-side fantasists.
Every claim they make gets debunked. When that happens they stick their fingers in their ears, sing rule Britania very loudly and dream of a 'better time' when Europe was ablaze and millions were being killed.
Only the odd nutter is arguing we will be better off. Bizarrely this is usually based on the assumption that the EU will renegotiate and we will stay in. So a argument for voting leave but not not an argument for leaving.
Their official position seems to be that we wil be worse off economically but better off is other ways. I think by leaving the notion of soverieigmity deliberately vague they allow people to fill in their own fantasy whether it be less immigrants or destroying the French fleet. This is actually quite a clever tactic.0 -
orraloon wrote:Coopster the 1st wrote:orraloon wrote:orraloon wrote:Coopster the 1st wrote:If that does not happen I'm confident the UK will demonstrate very quickly it is a stronger country OUT than IN the EU.
How's that going to happen then Mr Confident?
I repeat the question. How?
It's all around business and investment confidence.
All the UK will have to do is beat the armageddon predictions from the IMF, OECD, etc. And from their predictions they are setting the bar very low.
Once the world realises the negative views are not occurring investment confidence will stay and increase in the UK and this have a positive effect. However, this will have a magnifying negative effect to confidence in the EU as we are being sold that the 5th biggest economy cannot cope outside of the EU blanket :roll:
This is without the additional £8bn* a year the UK will have to spend on it's own economy.
*Figure taken from the BBC
Sorry pal, that is Project Fantasy blether. You don't say anything about How "the UK will...beat...predictions" or How "investment confidence will...increase"
UK is a natural resources light, manufacturing light, if figures are to be believed productivity light, small cold island in a hostile world, great idea to isolate ourselves further eh? Bring on the magic beans.
The UK will beat what is being predicted as the status quo regarding trading will be maintained. There are too many influential business sectors in the EU that will not want to lose or have restricted access to the worlds 5th biggest economy. Once the financial markets realise this is the case and not Project Fear which we are being sold, investment confidence will stay in the UK.
You don't hold a high opinion of the UK do you? I currently see the UK(and Germany) providing the support and stability to a failing EU, not other way around.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Ultimately brexiters are grass-is-greener-on-the-other-side fantasists.
Every claim they make gets debunked. When that happens they stick their fingers in their ears, sing rule Britania very loudly and dream of a 'better time' when Europe was ablaze and millions were being killed.
Do you believe that? Or are you just trolling? :roll:
I don't see an accurate claim coming out of the REMAIN camp yet? Losts of project Fear. I can see how the Scots felt in their referendum now. Do you believe the treasury can predict what the economy will be like in 14 years time when it cannot get the next 6 months right?0 -
Surrey Commuter wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Ultimately brexiters are grass-is-greener-on-the-other-side fantasists.
Every claim they make gets debunked. When that happens they stick their fingers in their ears, sing rule Britania very loudly and dream of a 'better time' when Europe was ablaze and millions were being killed.
Only the odd nutter is arguing we will be better off. Bizarrely this is usually based on the assumption that the EU will renegotiate and we will stay in. So a argument for voting leave but not not an argument for leaving.
I don't believe we will be better off if we stay in as the EU is now but I do see a very close referendum. In the event of an OUT vote I foresee a movement where EU reforms will be renegotiated and we'll have a second referendum that will end with a IN vote. I will be happy with that if the main reforms are addressed.
The EU cannot allow us to leave as that will be the beginning of the end of the EU. They are also not going to state this position as it will mean a landslide LEAVE vote so instead we get Project Fear and negativity from the REMAIN camp. :roll:0
