BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

1…1920222425…2110

Comments

  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    Ballysmate wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    The press isn't bothered either so calm down.

    Which way will you be voting BTW?

    not surprising, very difficult for them to know which gaff to lead on :lol:

    i ll be voting IN but i suspect as a country we ll vote OUT, will be very close though and touching on another thread, either way, will leave a very large number of people ignored, another reason why we should never have had this vote.

    A strange position. You bemoan the fact that following the referendum many people will feel ignored, but IF as you fear there is a majority for Brexit, you would have been more than happy for this majority to continue to be ignored by refusing them a referendum.

    i m not bemoaning anything, thats your phrase, the country shouldnt be put in this position, its not democracy at all, we dont have the facts to make an informed choice and make the wrong one, either way and it ll be our kids and their kids paying for it.
    Some things have to left to Parliament to decide, thats the whole point of them isnt it?

    What you dont seem to be able to admit is that the tories gave this vote to help them win the last GE, with zero thought to the consequences.... risking anything from eco ruin to WW3 according to them......???

    there was no great clamour to leave the EU or ukip would have won a few MPs in previous GE/by elections, they didnt, even the Greens have done better than UKIP.
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 15,930
    My response to one of your posts on the same thing earlier in the thread.
    EU membership was a boil that would need to be lanced at some point, regardless of whether the Tories won the election. Cameron promised a referendum in the manifesto which I agree may have persuaded some Eurosceptics to vote Tory. But don't forget or dismiss the 4m who still voted UKIP, a one trick pony. That is 1 in 8 of the electorate and more than the number of people voting Libdem & Green combined. If Cameron had not wooed some of the Eurosceptics and UKIP had enjoyed the support of all sceptics, the movement to leave would have been stronger and perhaps unstoppable.

    And your response was
    i dont dispute any of what you say
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    and the previous post and the rest of the reply ?.... context please Bally!

    i ve always maintained the vote should nt be and why DC called for it and the more DC states his view on how utterly dangerous Brexit will be for the UK.... why call it Dave?

    he know seems terrified of being cast in history as the PM who took the UK out of europe.

    instead of nit picking me, you need to face up to the fact that the current PM is an idiot, regardless of your politics - his recent gaffs re enforce this.
    hopefully whoever takes over in july, will at the very least have some intelligence.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,387
    mamba80 wrote:
    instead of nit picking me, you need to face up to the fact that the current PM is an idiot, regardless of your politics - his recent gaffs re enforce this.
    hopefully whoever takes over in july, will at the very least have some intelligence.
    Your hatred of Cameron is probably more connected with his background and your class warrior mindset.

    If a party led by an idiot thrashed Labour in the GE last year, what does that say about Labour? :wink:
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    instead of nit picking me, you need to face up to the fact that the current PM is an idiot, regardless of your politics - his recent gaffs re enforce this.
    hopefully whoever takes over in july, will at the very least have some intelligence.
    Your hatred of Cameron is probably more connected with his background and your class warrior mindset.

    If a party led by an idiot thrashed Labour in the GE last year, what does that say about Labour? :wink:


    i dont hate anyone, not even you :lol: and i m certainly no "class warrior" whatever that is, as i ve said, i ve voted tory in the past and if they returned to a one nation party, then i d consider it again, as i said in another post, all parties have some good people in them, i doubt you could say that about any other party ?

    i strongly disagree with Cameron based on his policies and personality, as for his wealth and background? he cannot help who his parents are but his lack of empathy or understanding toward anyone who hasnt his wealth or background is what i find distasteful.

    what does your blind loyalty to DC say about you Steve0 ?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    bompington wrote:

    Sometimes I think people ascribe politicians a Machiavellian intelligence which is clearly just not there.

    Well that is certainly correct.

    There's nothing Machiavellian about announcing a referendum and then spending the entire comparing explaining why it's a bad idea to have one.

    In reality the poor polling has led us to this.

    Tories expected another coalition, and announced a number of policies in the election which they would expect to trade away.

    Had the Tories expected to win, I doubt we would have seen a referendum like this.
    _
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,387
    mamba80 wrote:
    what does your blind loyalty to DC say about you Steve0 ?
    I don't have it.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Bobbinogs
    Bobbinogs Posts: 4,841
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    bompington wrote:

    Sometimes I think people ascribe politicians a Machiavellian intelligence which is clearly just not there.

    Well that is certainly correct.

    There's nothing Machiavellian about announcing a referendum and then spending the entire comparing explaining why it's a bad idea to have one.

    In reality the poor polling has led us to this.

    Tories expected another coalition, and announced a number of policies in the election which they would expect to trade away.

    Had the Tories expected to win, I doubt we would have seen a referendum like this.

    Probably right Rick. The whole referendum thing was a desperate attempt (in the light of some very negative polls) for the Tories to keep the disaffected vote from swinging to UKIP in the marginals. As it is, the polls were not right and the Tories romped home...but does that prove the polls were wrong or that the last minute appeasements by the Tories were in fact very successful?
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    In a scenario where the OUT wins, the pound loses 30-40% against Euro and dollar within a month or two, which means you can forget about holidays abroad for a year or two at the very least. Manufacturing slows due to confusion with trade deals, a number of banks decide to relocate elsewhere, as uncertainty is not top of their wishlist. In the country with the highest personal debt pro capita in the world, this could be disastrous in the short term. I can see ten years down the line maybe there are advantages in being out of EU, but does this cash strapped country have ten years in the tank? Personally I don't think so
    left the forum March 2023
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    In a scenario where the OUT wins, the pound loses 30-40% against Euro and dollar within a month or two, which means you can forget about holidays abroad for a year or two at the very least. Manufacturing slows due to confusion with trade deals, a number of banks decide to relocate elsewhere, as uncertainty is not top of their wishlist. In the country with the highest personal debt pro capita in the world, this could be disastrous in the short term. I can see ten years down the line maybe there are advantages in being out of EU, but does this cash strapped country have ten years in the tank? Personally I don't think so

    totally agree Ugo, however the issue will be decided on immigration and the belief that the UK still has an empire and can forge its way in the world, selling it mythical goods to 100s of countries that for some reason now cannot buy our wares, last time i looked, i can buy anything from anywhere in the world in my local shops - we no longer make much but what we do, can be sold across the world right now and our banking services are available worldwide too.

    we tried desperately to join the EEC in the first place because we were not forging our way in the world, and it could be argued that we were a stronger economy back then, that we are now.

    i know steve0 seems unable to grasp this, but Cameron has risked the economic well being of the UK, for decades to come, just so he could win ONE election.... unforgivable - he, of course, wont be effected.
  • coopster_the_1st
    coopster_the_1st Posts: 5,158
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    In a scenario where the OUT wins, the pound loses 30-40% against Euro and dollar within a month or two, which means you can forget about holidays abroad for a year or two at the very least. Manufacturing slows due to confusion with trade deals, a number of banks decide to relocate elsewhere, as uncertainty is not top of their wishlist. In the country with the highest personal debt pro capita in the world, this could be disastrous in the short term. I can see ten years down the line maybe there are advantages in being out of EU, but does this cash strapped country have ten years in the tank? Personally I don't think so

    For a lot of people it is not about pounds and pence. It's about the basic things in life:

    - How long will it take me to get a GP appointment?
    - How long will it take me to be seen if I visit A+E?
    - Can my child go to their first choice school?
    - etc

    We cannot keep adding a city the size of Newcastle every year without serious negatives to our public services. That on top of having to keep concreting over the countryside, etc.
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    In a scenario where the OUT wins, the pound loses 30-40% against Euro and dollar within a month or two, which means you can forget about holidays abroad for a year or two at the very least. Manufacturing slows due to confusion with trade deals, a number of banks decide to relocate elsewhere, as uncertainty is not top of their wishlist. In the country with the highest personal debt pro capita in the world, this could be disastrous in the short term. I can see ten years down the line maybe there are advantages in being out of EU, but does this cash strapped country have ten years in the tank? Personally I don't think so

    For a lot of people it is not about pounds and pence. It's about the basic things in life:

    - How long will it take me to get a GP appointment?
    - How long will it take me to be seen if I visit A+E?
    - Can my child go to their first choice school?
    - etc

    We cannot keep adding a city the size of Newcastle every year without serious negatives to our public services. That on top of having to keep concreting over the countryside, etc.

    i agree but leaving EU will not change that, or it is highly unlikely it will, the gdp growth forecasts the Gov uses are based on net migration, the EU will not give us free access to the single market unless we agree to free movement of labour and the new living wage will make us just as attractive to eco migrants as we are now.
    Being in the EU, a strong leader (ok not the current one) might be able to negotiate various opt outs on free movement, outside and we ll be dictated too.
    Add in what the french may may not do to our UK border (which is in france at mo) and migrant crisis could get far worse, why should they put up with migrant camps after we leave, when all they have to do is allow them on a ferry or turn a blind eye to them getting into a lorry?
    we would then allow them into UK, just as we do now when we find a lorry load on the M20.

    i accept there are no guarantees either way though.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    Coopster the 1st wrote:

    - How long will it take me to get a GP appointment?
    - How long will it take me to be seen if I visit A+E?
    - Can my child go to their first choice school?
    - etc
    .

    I appreciate, but if the consequence is a recession, at least in the short/mid term, then there will be fewer resources for NHS and education, leading to a worst outcome anyway.

    The problem is that people think there is a magic number, which is sustainable, the perfect number of inhabitants all in employment. What they do not realise is that more immigrants also means more jobs are created as a result of higher demand for services, goods, housing etc. Money spent in the NHS brings food on the table of a few million people. There are countries with a higher density of population which seem to thrive. The Netherlands for one, Singapore among others.
    If you lost half a million people next year, you would also lose jobs in proportion.

    You should do a referendum to pay more tax and have better services, if that's what you want. Curbing the population won't do that

    PS: I lived in London for 7 years, Hillingdon and then Richmond... never had a problem to see my GP in the timescale I needed, same here in Birmingham...
    left the forum March 2023
  • coopster_the_1st
    coopster_the_1st Posts: 5,158
    mamba80 wrote:
    i agree but leaving EU will not change that, or it is highly unlikely it will, the gdp growth forecasts the Gov uses are based on net migration,

    So we are only getting GDP growth by having more people in the country? We should be focusing on the GDP growth per person number!

    This is similar to the EU growing by €80bn in Q1 this year by creating €180bn of debt(QE) :roll:

    mamba80 wrote:
    the EU will not give us free access to the single market unless we agree to free movement of labour and the new living wage will make us just as attractive to eco migrants as we are now.

    I'm very much of the opinion that even a leave vote we will not be allowed to leave. There will be renegotiation that will stop the free movement of labour, then another referendum where we will vote to stay. The EU did not take our February negotiation seriously. They will only do so on a leave vote!
    mamba80 wrote:
    Being in the EU, a strong leader (ok not the current one) might be able to negotiate various opt outs on free movement, outside and we ll be dictated too.

    Voting to stay in will give the EU the justification to pull us further into the EU project and faster. No matter how strong the leader :( You can see how the EU view the UK by the poor negotiation in February
    mamba80 wrote:
    Add in what the french may may not do to our UK border (which is in france at mo) and migrant crisis could get far worse, why should they put up with migrant camps after we leave, when all they have to do is allow them on a ferry or turn a blind eye to them getting into a lorry?
    we would then allow them into UK, just as we do now when we find a lorry load on the M20.

    This is project fear at work. Transport companies (Eurotunnel, Ferries) will be the ones responsible with policing the correct people travel to the UK. Anyone who travels to the UK and is found not to have the correct documents will be sent back to the country they came from at the expense of the company that transported them to the UK. This is how it works with airlines, etc now.

    The other question you have to ask yourself regarding the above is: Despite being in the stable safe country of France why do people risk their lives to get to the UK? Why don't they declare asylum in France? If that is the case for non-EU residents you can see the pull factor that the UK has for the other 500 million EU residents :shock:
  • coopster_the_1st
    coopster_the_1st Posts: 5,158
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    You should do a referendum to pay more tax and have better services, if that's what you want. Curbing the population won't do that

    PS: I lived in London for 7 years, Hillingdon and then Richmond... never had a problem to see my GP in the timescale I needed, same here in Birmingham...

    So what population can the UK support?

    Does it not feel overpopulated at the moment?

    Regarding your PS, is the news and facts/figures incorrect regarding NHS targets, school places, GP's?

    We have no control over how many of up to 500 million people can arrive in the UK this year, next year, 2020, etc. The stronger the UK is the more people that will come to the UK and we have no control over this. We do not have finite resources but the EU policy seems to think we do :cry:
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    You should do a referendum to pay more tax and have better services, if that's what you want. Curbing the population won't do that

    PS: I lived in London for 7 years, Hillingdon and then Richmond... never had a problem to see my GP in the timescale I needed, same here in Birmingham...

    So what population can the UK support?

    Does it not feel overpopulated at the moment?

    Regarding your PS, is the news and facts/figures incorrect regarding NHS targets, school places, GP's?

    We have no control over how many of up to 500 million people can arrive in the UK this year, next year, 2020, etc. The stronger the UK is the more people that will come to the UK and we have no control over this. We do not have finite resources but the EU policy seems to think we do :cry:

    The number it can support depends on resources. There is room for growth in many UK cities. The real issue is private property. Building anywhere is a problem as councils have no land, because everything is private... have you ever wondered why British roads are so narrow and unnecessarily twisty? I can tell you it's nothing to do with the geography.

    Immigration is what makes countires rich, not poor.

    The news regarding NHS and education refer to a minority of places, which incidentally are not even in areas with high immigration. Education is severely under-funded, immigration or not. Where's the tuition fees money gone, since the government no longer pay for higher education? Have you noticed better services elsewhere over the past 5 years?

    We can argue money should be spent better and there should be more money in the system and immigration has nothing to do with either.

    Your attitude is that of a loser, I am sorry to say... I can't make it better because I don't want to pay tax, I blame the foreigners and I kick them out. People expect first class services paying pennies in tax... it doesn't work
    left the forum March 2023
  • chrisaonabike
    chrisaonabike Posts: 1,914
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    We cannot keep adding a city the size of Newcastle every year without serious negatives to our public services. That on top of having to keep concreting over the countryside, etc.

    ^^ This. Population increase requires growth. Which requires population increase. Which requires growth.

    What part of 'unsustainable' do people not understand? What we actually need is growth without population increase - that is, based on productivity improvement and innovation.

    Why do folks think that big business is in favour of Remain, whereas much of small business is in favour of Brexit?

    At risk of overgeneralising, it's because the EU is a source of cheap labour, that keeps profits and hence dividends up, and allows the fat cats to get fatter. Whereas small business tends to do better by increasing productivity and innovating.

    More people without end on our tiny island is not the solution.

    What I find deeply worrying is that if the dreadful things that the Remain campaign are routinely scaring us with are even remotely likely, Cameron had no business offering us the Brexit option with a referendum in the first place. They should have been honest then and said 'no - the consequences would be dreadful'.

    He is either lying (knowingly or unknowingly) about the consequences in order to win the referendum, thereby shutting up the Tory Eurosceptics, and keeping his rich CEO mates happy, or he is profoundly incompetent and recklessly risking the prosperity of our country by offering a UK Brexit.

    The scaremongering now is simply not credible.
    Is the gorilla tired yet?
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    ChrisAOnABike wrote:
    The scaremongering now is simply not credible.

    What do you think will happen during the first 24 months after brexit?

    1) Jobs

    2) Currency

    3) Markets

    4) GDP

    5) Mortgages

    what's your forecast for those indicators?
    left the forum March 2023
  • chrisaonabike
    chrisaonabike Posts: 1,914
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Immigration is what makes countries rich, not poor.
    Of course immigration is a good thing. But not if it's unlimited.

    The UK is not the USA of a century ago. It's not even the UK of 50 years ago.

    We're heading rapidly towards 70 million people, on a tiny island that is already overpopulated.

    Uncontrolled immigration will only stop of its own accord when there is no incentive for people to come here.

    I don't much like to imagine what the place will be like when it gets to that point.
    Is the gorilla tired yet?
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,146
    ChrisAOnABike wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Immigration is what makes countries rich, not poor.
    Of course immigration is a good thing. But not if it's unlimited.

    The UK is not the USA of a century ago. It's not even the UK of 50 years ago.

    We're heading rapidly towards 70 million people, on a tiny island that is already overpopulated.

    Uncontrolled immigration will only stop of its own accord when there is no incentive for people to come here.

    I don't much like to imagine what the place will be like when it gets to that point.

    It's the difference between where they are coming from and where they are going to that is relevant surely - not just what the destination is like.
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    ChrisAOnABike wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Immigration is what makes countries rich, not poor.
    Of course immigration is a good thing. But not if it's unlimited.

    The UK is not the USA of a century ago. It's not even the UK of 50 years ago.

    We're heading rapidly towards 70 million people, on a tiny island that is already overpopulated.

    Uncontrolled immigration will only stop of its own accord when there is no incentive for people to come here.

    I don't much like to imagine what the place will be like when it gets to that point.
    Where does the UK rank in terms of population density? Turns out to be 51st in the world. And most of the more densely populated countries have less infrastructure and resources to cope, too.

    Now we might all like less crowding, but just ask any country that's suffering from depopulation how well it works.

    Another thing: immigration may well be running at a higher rate than a lot of people (including me) would like. But to call it "uncontrolled" is yet another example of the way that Outers are running just as bad a "Project Fear" as Inners.
  • chrisaonabike
    chrisaonabike Posts: 1,914
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    ChrisAOnABike wrote:
    The scaremongering now is simply not credible.

    What do you think will happen during the first 24 months after brexit?

    1) Jobs

    2) Currency

    3) Markets

    4) GDP

    5) Mortgages

    what's your forecast for those indicators?
    I don't have a forecast.

    But more to the point, haven't you noticed that neither do the people that are doing much of the scaremongering? They're wrong more often than not, and sometimes wildly so. When did they ever predict a big crash?

    If we left the Exchange Rate Mechanism, it was going to be a disaster, don't you remember? The economists can't make a forecast more than a few weeks ahead to save their lives, haven't you noticed that?

    My guess is that in the next two years, there will be volatility, but not much overall change to any of the above. There may be a mild recession because of what's going on in the rest of the world, but that won't be caused by Brexit.

    Overall, given that all the EU companies that that export to the UK won't want to suddenly stop exporting to us, not much will change; negotiations will proceed, the Daily Mail will publish horror stories, same old same old.

    The civil service might need to recruit a few more people of depth and substance to do some actual negotiating, but that's no bad thing.
    Is the gorilla tired yet?
  • coopster_the_1st
    coopster_the_1st Posts: 5,158
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Immigration is what makes countires rich, not poor.

    I don't see anyone staying to stop immigration but that we should have a choice who comes here so it is mutually beneficial to both parties. It works for America. Are you saying they are wrong?
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    The news regarding NHS and education refer to a minority of places, which incidentally are not even in areas with high immigration. Education is severely under-funded, immigration or not. Where's the tuition fees money gone, since the government no longer pay for higher education? Have you noticed better services elsewhere over the past 5 years?

    The country has roughly 1.5 million people more than 5 years ago. How can services have improved when they were already stretched 5 years ago?
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    We can argue money should be spent better and there should be more money in the system and immigration has nothing to do with either.

    It's all about numbers and it is very easy to understand. Even the famous treasury document of 3 weeks ago based their incorrect assumptions on adding a city the size of Newcastle every year!
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Your attitude is that of a loser, I am sorry to say... I can't make it better because I don't want to pay tax, I blame the foreigners and I kick them out. People expect first class services paying pennies in tax... it doesn't work

    I could lower this conversation to your level above with name calling but I will not. And I have never mentioned tax so I have no idea where you are heading with this :?

    Here's a couple more questions for you:

    - Do you think Italy is currently better off being in the Euro? (aligning it to a country personal to you or is that why you left?)
    - If you were a strong country like the UK and outside the EU would you join on the conditions we currently have?
  • chrisaonabike
    chrisaonabike Posts: 1,914
    bompington wrote:
    Where does the UK rank in terms of population density? Turns out to be 51st in the world.
    Did you even look at the list? The majority of the top 50 are small islands and dependent territories.

    The Netherlands and Belgium are more populous than the UK, but of the other EU countries, the UK has a significantly higher density. France for instance has less than half than the UK.
    Is the gorilla tired yet?
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    ChrisAOnABike wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    ChrisAOnABike wrote:
    The scaremongering now is simply not credible.

    What do you think will happen during the first 24 months after brexit?

    1) Jobs

    2) Currency

    3) Markets

    4) GDP

    5) Mortgages

    what's your forecast for those indicators?
    I don't have a forecast.

    But more to the point, haven't you noticed that neither do the people that are doing much of the scaremongering? They're wrong more often than not, and sometimes wildly so. When did they ever predict a big crash?

    If we left the Exchange Rate Mechanism, it was going to be a disaster, don't you remember? The economists can't make a forecast more than a few weeks ahead to save their lives, haven't you noticed that?

    My guess is that in the next two years, there will be volatility, but not much overall change to any of the above. There may be a mild recession because of what's going on in the rest of the world, but that won't be caused by Brexit.

    Overall, given that all the EU companies that that export to the UK won't want to suddenly stop exporting to us, not much will change; negotiations will proceed, the Daily Mail will publish horror stories, same old same old.

    The civil service might need to recruit a few more people of depth and substance to do some actual negotiating, but that's no bad thing.

    There is pretty much a consensus (even amongst Leavers) that the economy will see a short-term downturn. The argument is whether this is 2 or 10 years.
    Business does not like uncertainty so there will be less jobs and less growth leading to less taxes and mortgage rate will go up.

    Most people would accept that leaving the world's largest trading bloc is a bad thing.... it is whether you believe it to be worth swapping for a stronger feeling of sovereignity
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    - Do you think Italy is currently better off being in the Euro? (aligning it to a country personal to you or is that why you left?)
    - If you were a strong country like the UK and outside the EU would you join on the conditions we currently have?

    Italy declined when manufacturing declined in the western world, around the end of the 80s as it heavily relied on it. The financial sector is not developed, technology never really picked up and then of course we have an historic problem with corruption and volatile governments. The Euro has nothing to do with it. Italy outside the EU would be a developing country, but not developing. We can argue that the Euro currency has not delivered what it promised, but Eu membership has been key to avoid a much more slippery slope.

    Whether the UK is a strong country on its own is very questionable. You can boast a permanent seat in the NATO security council, a couple of trident submarines, a declining but still decent navy and air force and an economy which holds, but is very fragile. The financial sector is a global industry which is quick to relocate where it's convenient, I wouldn't rely on it as much as you/we do
    left the forum March 2023
  • slowmart
    slowmart Posts: 4,516
    Why do people advocating leave usually base their view on migration as its important the question and impact of a leave vote should be much wider context? Or the argument is based on cost to the UK, again taken out of context and a narrow argument to leave.

    Why place more stress on a fragile economic recovery with the uncertainty of uncharted waters of renegotiating trade deals. Forty five percent of exports are to Europe. In business anything over 20% concentration with one client is unhealthy and the financial implications of a diminishing export market will hit jobs and the U.K. economy hard.

    The disruption and uncertainty to the economy will be massive and while most large companies have contingency plans options will be in place to move operations geographically to where trading agreements are set and agreed. Anyone thinking that we can jump the queue and receive preferential treatment is mistaken. Firstly, why should any country but the UK first and secondly as that twat Boris suggests we can negotiate a quick trade deal- that leaves me cold. Who wants a burning platform as a base to make a deal. It's bend over time based on that formula.



    However I can't see the UK voting to leave as the risks and uncertainty are too high.
    “Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring”

    Desmond Tutu
  • tangled_metal
    tangled_metal Posts: 4,021
    Itv has agreed a format for one of its referendum programmes involving Cameron on one side and Farage on the other. Why? Farage isn't part of the formally identified lead representative organization in the leave camp. So you've got one of the main stay leaders against a sidelined leader of the second leave group. Reason? Farage and his grassroots out organization only really campaign on immigration. The main Brexit group is trying to argue on a wider range of topics. Yet most pro Brexit posters on here seem to mostly post on immigration. Widen the arguments guys immigration isn't the only narrative.

    Martin Lewis, money saving expert, was.identified in polls as one of the most trusted commentators on the referendum. What does he say? Well basically the arguments don't matter because nobody really knows what will happen if we leave. Staying in is more predictable but leaving is all guesswork and more instability involved in leaving. So ultimately just vote with whatever you want to believe in or the side you most trust. It is a kind of flip a coin thing because nobody knows what is going to happen.

    BTW schools and GPs are ok to get into up here. Large towns and cities probably different. I think that's more of a postcode lottery. Up here there's a large polish community, always had one from wwii and possibly before. That hasn't affected schools or gp access. My main problem with gp access is not to see one quickly but to see one at a time that suits me, namely late afternoon (after work) or other times I'm not at work. That's not as big an issue if I need an urgent appointment I'm probably off work anyway.

    So with.this referendum I recommend voting with your gut feeling but do not make out your side knows better than the other. Or your side isn't project fear as well. Fear is a better driver to your side than positive arguments. That's why both sides are using it so much. The question is which side is being a bit more clever about it by being less blatant. The remain side is being prats over some of the fear stories they're putting out. It'll drive more to the leave than they drag to their side. The way they're doing it makes their fears more of a push than a pull factor.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    Martin Lewis, of corporate owned consumer advice website is considered most trusted Brexit adviser?

    Things are worse than I thought...
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    Overcrowding... mmh, yeah, right

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36285049
    left the forum March 2023

Categories