BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

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Comments

  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,762
    briantrumpet said:

    Stevo_666 said:




    Did you deliberately miss the point of the article? Which was that we won't be rejoining the EU.

    Be careful what you wish for. He has an agenda, and I just have a suspicion it's not one you'd like.



    The article he wrote definitely isnt to your liking. Any thoughts on the main point made in that article?
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,144
    edited December 2023
    Stevo_666 said:

    pangolin said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Interesting article in the famously pro-Brexit Guardian about why we won't be rejoining. Seems quite balanced to me.
    https://msn.com/en-gb/money/other/i-ve-got-news-for-those-who-say-brexit-is-a-disaster-it-isn-t-that-s-why-rejoining-is-just-a-pipe-dream/ar-AA1l19kk?cvid=c200ed369d2a4da9839d1859f5e1e922&ocid=winp2fptaskbarent&ei=6

    Larry Elliot is probably Corbyn's favourite economics writer.

    If you were going to persuade @surrey_commuter that you are deep down a right winger and haven't followed the Tory party down the (old fashioned view of) left wing populism, you're not doing a very good job.
    I don't care whose favourite economics wroter he is, he seems to have got it right in this specific case. Which specific bits of the article do you disagree with?
    He seems to be echoing many on here who have said it's not a catastrophe but things are just a bit shitter than they would be (and with no real benefits).

    Brexit provided opportunities to do things differently but those opportunities have so far not been exploited.
    As usual no mention of what these mysterious "opportunities" might be.

    The last 5 paragraphs are a bizarre take on how we have high immigration but that hasn't resulted in a right wing government. Eh?

    Did you deliberately miss the point of the article? Which was that we won't be rejoining the EU.


    He's an ardent Brexit fan so worth viewing the article in that context. His argument seems to be that the last few years economic performance have been underwhelming, and Brexit has caused problems for SMEs, but it's not been bad enough, especially in comparison to the performance in the EU, to persuade people to want to rejoin.

    Unfortunately for him and political leaders on either side of Parliament, public opinion is moving more towards rejoining than he would like.

    In short: his point ignores public opinion.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Jezyboy
    Jezyboy Posts: 3,538
    It would be amusing if leavers started to make the same mistake as remainers did during the referendum.

    Trying to make a cold logical economic argument but totally ignoring any emotional arguments.

  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,604
    Stevo_666 said:

    briantrumpet said:

    Stevo_666 said:




    Did you deliberately miss the point of the article? Which was that we won't be rejoining the EU.

    Be careful what you wish for. He has an agenda, and I just have a suspicion it's not one you'd like.



    The article he wrote definitely isnt to your liking. Any thoughts on the main point made in that article?
    Brian if you do comment on the main point please be sure not to mention any of the reasoning behind it, those are out of scope for this question.
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,762
    pangolin said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    briantrumpet said:

    Stevo_666 said:




    Did you deliberately miss the point of the article? Which was that we won't be rejoining the EU.

    Be careful what you wish for. He has an agenda, and I just have a suspicion it's not one you'd like.



    The article he wrote definitely isnt to your liking. Any thoughts on the main point made in that article?
    Brian if you do comment on the main point please be sure not to mention any of the reasoning behind it, those are out of scope for this question.
    I take it you don't want to or can't make any sensible comments on the point I was making then. I didn't expect anything else.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,586
    Jezyboy said:

    It would be amusing if leavers started to make the same mistake as remainers did during the referendum.

    Trying to make a cold logical economic argument but totally ignoring any emotional arguments.

    The pro remain argument was cold, logical and economic without any emotion?
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,604
    Stevo_666 said:

    pangolin said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    briantrumpet said:

    Stevo_666 said:




    Did you deliberately miss the point of the article? Which was that we won't be rejoining the EU.

    Be careful what you wish for. He has an agenda, and I just have a suspicion it's not one you'd like.



    The article he wrote definitely isnt to your liking. Any thoughts on the main point made in that article?
    Brian if you do comment on the main point please be sure not to mention any of the reasoning behind it, those are out of scope for this question.
    I take it you don't want to or can't make any sensible comments on the point I was making then. I didn't expect anything else.
    Do you honestly expect people to comment just on the headline and not the authors rationale? Why even post the article?
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,762
    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    pangolin said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Interesting article in the famously pro-Brexit Guardian about why we won't be rejoining. Seems quite balanced to me.
    https://msn.com/en-gb/money/other/i-ve-got-news-for-those-who-say-brexit-is-a-disaster-it-isn-t-that-s-why-rejoining-is-just-a-pipe-dream/ar-AA1l19kk?cvid=c200ed369d2a4da9839d1859f5e1e922&ocid=winp2fptaskbarent&ei=6

    Larry Elliot is probably Corbyn's favourite economics writer.

    If you were going to persuade @surrey_commuter that you are deep down a right winger and haven't followed the Tory party down the (old fashioned view of) left wing populism, you're not doing a very good job.
    I don't care whose favourite economics wroter he is, he seems to have got it right in this specific case. Which specific bits of the article do you disagree with?
    He seems to be echoing many on here who have said it's not a catastrophe but things are just a bit shitter than they would be (and with no real benefits).

    Brexit provided opportunities to do things differently but those opportunities have so far not been exploited.
    As usual no mention of what these mysterious "opportunities" might be.

    The last 5 paragraphs are a bizarre take on how we have high immigration but that hasn't resulted in a right wing government. Eh?

    Did you deliberately miss the point of the article? Which was that we won't be rejoining the EU.
    He's an ardent Brexit fan so worth viewing the article in that context. His argument seems to be that the last few years economic performance have been underwhelming, and Brexit has caused problems for SMEs, but it's not been bad enough, especially in comparison to the performance in the EU, to persuade people to want to rejoin.

    Unfortunately for him and political leaders on either side of Parliament, public opinion is moving more towards rejoining than he would like.

    In short: his point ignores public opinion.

    Like this, you mean?
    https://theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/30/younger-britons-are-more-pro-eu-but-fixing-brexit-not-their-priority
    I wouldn't get too hopeful.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,604
    Careful with your quoting Stevo :D
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • Jezyboy
    Jezyboy Posts: 3,538
    TheBigBean said:

    Jezyboy said:

    It would be amusing if leavers started to make the same mistake as remainers did during the referendum.

    Trying to make a cold logical economic argument but totally ignoring any emotional arguments.

    The pro remain argument was cold, logical and economic without any emotion?
    I would argue that the official leave campaign overly focused on the economic benefits, and by and large failed to engage in any positive manner.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,762
    pangolin said:

    Careful with your quoting Stevo :D

    Why?

    You are just confirming your lack of ability to argue. Carry on :)
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,604
    edited December 2023
    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    pangolin said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Interesting article in the famously pro-Brexit Guardian about why we won't be rejoining. Seems quite balanced to me.
    https://msn.com/en-gb/money/other/i-ve-got-news-for-those-who-say-brexit-is-a-disaster-it-isn-t-that-s-why-rejoining-is-just-a-pipe-dream/ar-AA1l19kk?cvid=c200ed369d2a4da9839d1859f5e1e922&ocid=winp2fptaskbarent&ei=6

    Larry Elliot is probably Corbyn's favourite economics writer.

    If you were going to persuade @surrey_commuter that you are deep down a right winger and haven't followed the Tory party down the (old fashioned view of) left wing populism, you're not doing a very good job.
    I don't care whose favourite economics wroter he is, he seems to have got it right in this specific case. Which specific bits of the article do you disagree with?
    He seems to be echoing many on here who have said it's not a catastrophe but things are just a bit shitter than they would be (and with no real benefits).

    Brexit provided opportunities to do things differently but those opportunities have so far not been exploited.
    As usual no mention of what these mysterious "opportunities" might be.

    The last 5 paragraphs are a bizarre take on how we have high immigration but that hasn't resulted in a right wing government. Eh?

    Did you deliberately miss the point of the article? Which was that we won't be rejoining the EU.
    He's an ardent Brexit fan so worth viewing the article in that context. His argument seems to be that the last few years economic performance have been underwhelming, and Brexit has caused problems for SMEs, but it's not been bad enough, especially in comparison to the performance in the EU, to persuade people to want to rejoin.

    Unfortunately for him and political leaders on either side of Parliament, public opinion is moving more towards rejoining than he would like.

    In short: his point ignores public opinion.

    ...
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,144
    edited December 2023
    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    pangolin said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Interesting article in the famously pro-Brexit Guardian about why we won't be rejoining. Seems quite balanced to me.
    https://msn.com/en-gb/money/other/i-ve-got-news-for-those-who-say-brexit-is-a-disaster-it-isn-t-that-s-why-rejoining-is-just-a-pipe-dream/ar-AA1l19kk?cvid=c200ed369d2a4da9839d1859f5e1e922&ocid=winp2fptaskbarent&ei=6

    Larry Elliot is probably Corbyn's favourite economics writer.

    If you were going to persuade @surrey_commuter that you are deep down a right winger and haven't followed the Tory party down the (old fashioned view of) left wing populism, you're not doing a very good job.
    I don't care whose favourite economics wroter he is, he seems to have got it right in this specific case. Which specific bits of the article do you disagree with?
    He seems to be echoing many on here who have said it's not a catastrophe but things are just a bit shitter than they would be (and with no real benefits).

    Brexit provided opportunities to do things differently but those opportunities have so far not been exploited.
    As usual no mention of what these mysterious "opportunities" might be.

    The last 5 paragraphs are a bizarre take on how we have high immigration but that hasn't resulted in a right wing government. Eh?

    Did you deliberately miss the point of the article? Which was that we won't be rejoining the EU.
    He's an ardent Brexit fan so worth viewing the article in that context. His argument seems to be that the last few years economic performance have been underwhelming, and Brexit has caused problems for SMEs, but it's not been bad enough, especially in comparison to the performance in the EU, to persuade people to want to rejoin.

    Unfortunately for him and political leaders on either side of Parliament, public opinion is moving more towards rejoining than he would like.

    In short: his point ignores public opinion.
    Like this, you mean?
    https://theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/30/younger-britons-are-more-pro-eu-but-fixing-brexit-not-their-priority
    I wouldn't get too hopeful.

    No, actual polling rather opinion pieces in the Guardian.

    It's interesting as both main parties are ignoring this when they could use it to their advantage.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Jezyboy said:

    TheBigBean said:

    Jezyboy said:

    It would be amusing if leavers started to make the same mistake as remainers did during the referendum.

    Trying to make a cold logical economic argument but totally ignoring any emotional arguments.

    The pro remain argument was cold, logical and economic without any emotion?
    I would argue that the official leave campaign overly focused on the economic benefits, and by and large failed to engage in any positive manner.
    my recollection is that they stayed well clear of economic arguments as there was never any economic plus side to Brexit. Gove made his disparaging comment about experts as he had scoured the planet but could not find one credible person to argue that Brexit would be a boost to the economy
  • Jezyboy
    Jezyboy Posts: 3,538
    surrey_commuter said:

    Jezyboy said:

    TheBigBean said:

    Jezyboy said:

    It would be amusing if leavers started to make the same mistake as remainers did during the referendum.

    Trying to make a cold logical economic argument but totally ignoring any emotional arguments.

    The pro remain argument was cold, logical and economic without any emotion?
    I would argue that the official leave campaign overly focused on the economic benefits, and by and large failed to engage in any positive manner.
    my recollection is that they stayed well clear of economic arguments as there was never any economic plus side to Brexit. Gove made his disparaging comment about experts as he had scoured the planet but could not find one credible person to argue that Brexit would be a boost to the economy
    Yea I have my leaves and remains messed up here.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,762
    edited December 2023
    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    pangolin said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Interesting article in the famously pro-Brexit Guardian about why we won't be rejoining. Seems quite balanced to me.
    https://msn.com/en-gb/money/other/i-ve-got-news-for-those-who-say-brexit-is-a-disaster-it-isn-t-that-s-why-rejoining-is-just-a-pipe-dream/ar-AA1l19kk?cvid=c200ed369d2a4da9839d1859f5e1e922&ocid=winp2fptaskbarent&ei=6

    Larry Elliot is probably Corbyn's favourite economics writer.

    If you were going to persuade @surrey_commuter that you are deep down a right winger and haven't followed the Tory party down the (old fashioned view of) left wing populism, you're not doing a very good job.
    I don't care whose favourite economics wroter he is, he seems to have got it right in this specific case. Which specific bits of the article do you disagree with?
    He seems to be echoing many on here who have said it's not a catastrophe but things are just a bit shitter than they would be (and with no real benefits).

    Brexit provided opportunities to do things differently but those opportunities have so far not been exploited.
    As usual no mention of what these mysterious "opportunities" might be.

    The last 5 paragraphs are a bizarre take on how we have high immigration but that hasn't resulted in a right wing government. Eh?

    Did you deliberately miss the point of the article? Which was that we won't be rejoining the EU.
    He's an ardent Brexit fan so worth viewing the article in that context. His argument seems to be that the last few years economic performance have been underwhelming, and Brexit has caused problems for SMEs, but it's not been bad enough, especially in comparison to the performance in the EU, to persuade people to want to rejoin.

    Unfortunately for him and political leaders on either side of Parliament, public opinion is moving more towards rejoining than he would like.

    In short: his point ignores public opinion.
    Like this, you mean?
    https://theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/30/younger-britons-are-more-pro-eu-but-fixing-brexit-not-their-priority
    I wouldn't get too hopeful.
    No, actual polling rather opinion pieces in the Guardian.

    It's interesting as both main parties are ignoring this when they could use it to their advantage.

    The data is from a poll. Which just happens to be part of an opinion piece in the Guardian.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,144
    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    pangolin said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Interesting article in the famously pro-Brexit Guardian about why we won't be rejoining. Seems quite balanced to me.
    https://msn.com/en-gb/money/other/i-ve-got-news-for-those-who-say-brexit-is-a-disaster-it-isn-t-that-s-why-rejoining-is-just-a-pipe-dream/ar-AA1l19kk?cvid=c200ed369d2a4da9839d1859f5e1e922&ocid=winp2fptaskbarent&ei=6

    Larry Elliot is probably Corbyn's favourite economics writer.

    If you were going to persuade @surrey_commuter that you are deep down a right winger and haven't followed the Tory party down the (old fashioned view of) left wing populism, you're not doing a very good job.
    I don't care whose favourite economics wroter he is, he seems to have got it right in this specific case. Which specific bits of the article do you disagree with?
    He seems to be echoing many on here who have said it's not a catastrophe but things are just a bit shitter than they would be (and with no real benefits).

    Brexit provided opportunities to do things differently but those opportunities have so far not been exploited.
    As usual no mention of what these mysterious "opportunities" might be.

    The last 5 paragraphs are a bizarre take on how we have high immigration but that hasn't resulted in a right wing government. Eh?

    Did you deliberately miss the point of the article? Which was that we won't be rejoining the EU.
    He's an ardent Brexit fan so worth viewing the article in that context. His argument seems to be that the last few years economic performance have been underwhelming, and Brexit has caused problems for SMEs, but it's not been bad enough, especially in comparison to the performance in the EU, to persuade people to want to rejoin.

    Unfortunately for him and political leaders on either side of Parliament, public opinion is moving more towards rejoining than he would like.

    In short: his point ignores public opinion.
    Like this, you mean?
    https://theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/30/younger-britons-are-more-pro-eu-but-fixing-brexit-not-their-priority
    I wouldn't get too hopeful.
    No, actual polling rather opinion pieces in the Guardian.

    It's interesting as both main parties are ignoring this when they could use it to their advantage.
    The data is from a poll. Which just happens to be part of an opinion piece in the Guardian.

    Just link to the poll then.

    https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/45910-britons-would-vote-rejoin-eu

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_the_United_Kingdom_rejoining_the_European_Union_(2020–present)

    There's a chart of all polling in the latter link. Very clear trend.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,144
    edited December 2023
    This bit is particularly clear

    Young voters
    edit
    Starting in April 2023, Savanta – commissioned by Peston, ITV's flagship political discussion programme – conducts polls of young people aged 18 to 25 on a range of issues, including their views on the UK rejoining the European Union.[5]

    Question: If there was a referendum now on whether the UK should or should not join the EU tomorrow with the question, 'Should the United Kingdom become a member of the European Union or not become a member of the European Union?', how would you vote?
    Dates
    conducted Pollster Client Sample
    size Join the EU Stay out Neither Lead
    22–26 Sep 2023 Savanta Peston 1,021 66% 15% 18% 51%
    28 Apr – 3 May 2023 Savanta Peston 1,021 77% 13% 64%
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,762
    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    pangolin said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Interesting article in the famously pro-Brexit Guardian about why we won't be rejoining. Seems quite balanced to me.
    https://msn.com/en-gb/money/other/i-ve-got-news-for-those-who-say-brexit-is-a-disaster-it-isn-t-that-s-why-rejoining-is-just-a-pipe-dream/ar-AA1l19kk?cvid=c200ed369d2a4da9839d1859f5e1e922&ocid=winp2fptaskbarent&ei=6

    Larry Elliot is probably Corbyn's favourite economics writer.

    If you were going to persuade @surrey_commuter that you are deep down a right winger and haven't followed the Tory party down the (old fashioned view of) left wing populism, you're not doing a very good job.
    I don't care whose favourite economics wroter he is, he seems to have got it right in this specific case. Which specific bits of the article do you disagree with?
    He seems to be echoing many on here who have said it's not a catastrophe but things are just a bit shitter than they would be (and with no real benefits).

    Brexit provided opportunities to do things differently but those opportunities have so far not been exploited.
    As usual no mention of what these mysterious "opportunities" might be.

    The last 5 paragraphs are a bizarre take on how we have high immigration but that hasn't resulted in a right wing government. Eh?

    Did you deliberately miss the point of the article? Which was that we won't be rejoining the EU.
    He's an ardent Brexit fan so worth viewing the article in that context. His argument seems to be that the last few years economic performance have been underwhelming, and Brexit has caused problems for SMEs, but it's not been bad enough, especially in comparison to the performance in the EU, to persuade people to want to rejoin.

    Unfortunately for him and political leaders on either side of Parliament, public opinion is moving more towards rejoining than he would like.

    In short: his point ignores public opinion.
    Like this, you mean?
    https://theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/30/younger-britons-are-more-pro-eu-but-fixing-brexit-not-their-priority
    I wouldn't get too hopeful.
    No, actual polling rather opinion pieces in the Guardian.

    It's interesting as both main parties are ignoring this when they could use it to their advantage.
    The data is from a poll. Which just happens to be part of an opinion piece in the Guardian.
    Just link to the poll then.

    https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/45910-britons-would-vote-rejoin-eu

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_the_United_Kingdom_rejoining_the_European_Union_(2020–present)

    There's a chart of all polling in the latter link. Very clear trend.

    You are still too hopeful. The main parties have no interest in this.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,762
    Going back to the EU dropping EV tariffs, looks like this was a case of the car industry riding to the rescue, which some on here said would never happen:
    https://msn.com/en-gb/money/other/how-britain-and-germany-teamed-up-to-defeat-france-on-electric-car-tariffs/ar-AA1l6tVu?cvid=58a41641787f4242eb9ac37c9eece0f6&ocid=winp2fptaskbarhoverent&ei=10

    Also a good bit of teamwork between UK and Germany to thwart France. So much for European solidarity :smile:
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,144
    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    pangolin said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Interesting article in the famously pro-Brexit Guardian about why we won't be rejoining. Seems quite balanced to me.
    https://msn.com/en-gb/money/other/i-ve-got-news-for-those-who-say-brexit-is-a-disaster-it-isn-t-that-s-why-rejoining-is-just-a-pipe-dream/ar-AA1l19kk?cvid=c200ed369d2a4da9839d1859f5e1e922&ocid=winp2fptaskbarent&ei=6

    Larry Elliot is probably Corbyn's favourite economics writer.

    If you were going to persuade @surrey_commuter that you are deep down a right winger and haven't followed the Tory party down the (old fashioned view of) left wing populism, you're not doing a very good job.
    I don't care whose favourite economics wroter he is, he seems to have got it right in this specific case. Which specific bits of the article do you disagree with?
    He seems to be echoing many on here who have said it's not a catastrophe but things are just a bit shitter than they would be (and with no real benefits).

    Brexit provided opportunities to do things differently but those opportunities have so far not been exploited.
    As usual no mention of what these mysterious "opportunities" might be.

    The last 5 paragraphs are a bizarre take on how we have high immigration but that hasn't resulted in a right wing government. Eh?

    Did you deliberately miss the point of the article? Which was that we won't be rejoining the EU.
    He's an ardent Brexit fan so worth viewing the article in that context. His argument seems to be that the last few years economic performance have been underwhelming, and Brexit has caused problems for SMEs, but it's not been bad enough, especially in comparison to the performance in the EU, to persuade people to want to rejoin.

    Unfortunately for him and political leaders on either side of Parliament, public opinion is moving more towards rejoining than he would like.

    In short: his point ignores public opinion.
    Like this, you mean?
    https://theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/30/younger-britons-are-more-pro-eu-but-fixing-brexit-not-their-priority
    I wouldn't get too hopeful.
    No, actual polling rather opinion pieces in the Guardian.

    It's interesting as both main parties are ignoring this when they could use it to their advantage.
    The data is from a poll. Which just happens to be part of an opinion piece in the Guardian.
    Just link to the poll then.

    https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/45910-britons-would-vote-rejoin-eu

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_the_United_Kingdom_rejoining_the_European_Union_(2020–present)

    There's a chart of all polling in the latter link. Very clear trend.
    You are still too hopeful. The main parties have no interest in this.

    My hopes, whatever they might be, are beside the point. I'm explaining that both main parties are missing a trick. Ignoring public opinion is generally a poor strategy for a political party.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,604
    My hope is that one of you learns how to fix quotes
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,221
    pangolin said:

    My hope is that one of you learns how to fix quotes

    It’s like a forum version of John Travolta and Nicholas Cage in Face / Off reading the current format. I keep thinking someone has hacked Stevo’s account.
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 13,212
    Pross said:

    pangolin said:

    My hope is that one of you learns how to fix quotes

    It’s like a forum version of John Travolta and Nicholas Cage in Face / Off reading the current format. I keep thinking someone has hacked Stevo’s account.
    So is Shortfall not a Stevo likebot then?
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,762
    pangolin said:

    My hope is that one of you learns how to fix quotes

    I hope that one day you learn how to engage properly in a debate and argue a point.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,762
    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    pangolin said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Interesting article in the famously pro-Brexit Guardian about why we won't be rejoining. Seems quite balanced to me.
    https://msn.com/en-gb/money/other/i-ve-got-news-for-those-who-say-brexit-is-a-disaster-it-isn-t-that-s-why-rejoining-is-just-a-pipe-dream/ar-AA1l19kk?cvid=c200ed369d2a4da9839d1859f5e1e922&ocid=winp2fptaskbarent&ei=6

    Larry Elliot is probably Corbyn's favourite economics writer.

    If you were going to persuade @surrey_commuter that you are deep down a right winger and haven't followed the Tory party down the (old fashioned view of) left wing populism, you're not doing a very good job.
    I don't care whose favourite economics wroter he is, he seems to have got it right in this specific case. Which specific bits of the article do you disagree with?
    He seems to be echoing many on here who have said it's not a catastrophe but things are just a bit shitter than they would be (and with no real benefits).

    Brexit provided opportunities to do things differently but those opportunities have so far not been exploited.
    As usual no mention of what these mysterious "opportunities" might be.

    The last 5 paragraphs are a bizarre take on how we have high immigration but that hasn't resulted in a right wing government. Eh?

    Did you deliberately miss the point of the article? Which was that we won't be rejoining the EU.
    He's an ardent Brexit fan so worth viewing the article in that context. His argument seems to be that the last few years economic performance have been underwhelming, and Brexit has caused problems for SMEs, but it's not been bad enough, especially in comparison to the performance in the EU, to persuade people to want to rejoin.

    Unfortunately for him and political leaders on either side of Parliament, public opinion is moving more towards rejoining than he would like.

    In short: his point ignores public opinion.
    Like this, you mean?
    https://theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/30/younger-britons-are-more-pro-eu-but-fixing-brexit-not-their-priority
    I wouldn't get too hopeful.
    No, actual polling rather opinion pieces in the Guardian.

    It's interesting as both main parties are ignoring this when they could use it to their advantage.
    The data is from a poll. Which just happens to be part of an opinion piece in the Guardian.
    Just link to the poll then.

    https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/45910-britons-would-vote-rejoin-eu

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_the_United_Kingdom_rejoining_the_European_Union_(2020–present)

    There's a chart of all polling in the latter link. Very clear trend.
    You are still too hopeful. The main parties have no interest in this.
    My hopes, whatever they might be, are beside the point. I'm explaining that both main parties are missing a trick. Ignoring public opinion is generally a poor strategy for a political party.

    It looked from that article I posted about why we won't rejoin is that despite the sentiments you refer to, a lot of people don't care that much about the issue that it would make them vote for a particular party who made it a part of their policy.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,604
    Stevo_666 said:

    pangolin said:

    My hope is that one of you learns how to fix quotes

    I hope that one day you learn how to engage properly in a debate and argue a point.
    "Debate" defined here as posting random opinion pieces you agree with and not being willing to discuss the content. Gotcha.
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • davebradswmb
    davebradswmb Posts: 520
    Stevo_666 said:

    pangolin said:

    My hope is that one of you learns how to fix quotes

    I hope that one day you learn how to engage properly in a debate and argue a point.
    Wow, that's quite a statement from the head in the sand bloke.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,762
    davebradswmb said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    pangolin said:

    My hope is that one of you learns how to fix quotes

    I hope that one day you learn how to engage properly in a debate and argue a point.
    Wow, that's quite a statement from the head in the sand bloke.
    Read Pango's posts above and tell me what you think of his attempt to debate the point that I was making. Mind you, I think I need to stop feeding him now :)
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,604
    Stevo_666 said:

    davebradswmb said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    pangolin said:

    My hope is that one of you learns how to fix quotes

    I hope that one day you learn how to engage properly in a debate and argue a point.
    Wow, that's quite a statement from the head in the sand bloke.
    Read Pango's posts above and tell me what you think of his attempt to debate the point that I was making. Mind you, I think I need to stop feeding him now :)
    This was my reply to your first opinion piece Stevo
    pangolin said:

    He seems to be echoing many on here who have said it's not a catastrophe but things are just a bit shitter than they would be (and with no real benefits).

    "Brexit provided opportunities to do things differently but those opportunities have so far not been exploited."

    As usual no mention of what these mysterious "opportunities" might be.

    The last 5 paragraphs are a bizarre take on how we have high immigration but that hasn't resulted in a right wing government. Eh?

    You said I was debating the wrong things, and, strangely, didn't want to engage in debating these points (or seemingly any of the content of the opinion piece other than the headline).

    Happy to debate them if you are.
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono

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