BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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Why should she move the seat back when she's done? Do you move it forward when you're done?0
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This sounds like bog seat wars. Who said Brexit was boring
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Arguably, Brexit isn't done until all those EU laws go“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
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From someone who voted for Brexit, Lord Wolfson of Next:“We have got people queuing up to come to this country to pick crops that are rotting in fields, to work in warehouses that otherwise wouldn’t be operable, and we’re not letting them in.
“And we have to take a different approach to economically productive migration.”
Wolfson admits that this is not the Brexit that he – or most people – wanted, saying:
“I think in respect of immigration, it’s definitely not the Brexit that I wanted, or indeed, many of people who voted Brexit, but more importantly, the vast majority of the country,” he said.
“And we have to remember, you know, we’re all stuck in this Brexit argument, we have to remember that what post-Brexit Britain looks like, is not the preserve of those people that voted Brexit, it’s for all of us to decide.”
Back in 2016, Wolfson had a much cheerier view, declaring that “On balance, I think we will be better off out”, and that without radical change the UK was “heading for a long era of low growth”.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2022/nov/10/next-ceo-lord-wolfson-brexit-foreign-workers-uk-economy-us-inflation-ftx-bitcoin-business-live0 -
The penultimate paragraph is the bit that frustrates me.
Everything is being framed by how you voted over 6 years ago as to whether your opinion is valid. That is a Tory policy choice. (It’s almost like they’re sore winners).
It’s why I think Labour are potentially correct (even though it does seem non-committal) to just ignore Brexit. Assuming they come to power, the policy agenda needs to be one of looking forwards given where we are and not be based around opinions of 2016 from either side of that argument.0 -
The treaty commitments have gone, most notably from the Brexiteer viewpoint FoM, contributions and the ECJ, which feels like the main point of Brexit.tailwindhome said:Arguably, Brexit isn't done until all those EU laws go
Re the remaining "EU laws", I'm sure there were surveys done post-referendum about which EU laws people wanted to get rid of. Basically there weren't any that commanded anything more than niche interest. even amongst leave voters.
And many of the laws that follow EU Regulations and Directives go beyond the minimum requirements of the edict concerned, so ditching those laws will get rid of UK laws that the UK considered worth making at the time. I know "sovereignty" is important to the Brexiteers, but ditching, purely on principle, parts of legislation that we implemented using our sovereignty at the time, because Parliament considered a "good thing", just to demonstrate our sovereignty now does feel a bit strange, even by the standards of "Brexit Logic", if such a term can be said to exist.0 -
The UK is no longer a member of the EU.tailwindhome said:Arguably, Brexit isn't done until all those EU laws go
By your definition Brexit will never be done. Do you think the RoI is still part of the UK?0 -
I really think he's deluded with this bit:
“I think in respect of immigration, it’s definitely not the Brexit that I wanted, or indeed, many of people who voted Brexit, but more importantly, the vast majority of the country,” he said.
It may be the case for him but I thing for the general public and most of those who pushed the Brexit bandwagon this is exactly what it was about.0 -
If Brexit is done with all those laws still on the statute book, how come Brexiteers want them off the statute book with such ferocious urgency“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
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Well, there are some postboxes still in active service adorned with the Royal cipher.surrey_commuter said:
The UK is no longer a member of the EU.tailwindhome said:Arguably, Brexit isn't done until all those EU laws go
By your definition Brexit will never be done. Do you think the RoI is still part of the UK?
They were merely painted green
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
But they still have FoM, they need to get it donetailwindhome said:
Well, there are some postboxes still in active service adorned with the Royal cipher.surrey_commuter said:
The UK is no longer a member of the EU.tailwindhome said:Arguably, Brexit isn't done until all those EU laws go
By your definition Brexit will never be done. Do you think the RoI is still part of the UK?
They were merely painted green0 -
The referendum question was: Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union? The responses were:tailwindhome said:If Brexit is done with all those laws still on the statute book, how come Brexiteers want them off the statute book with such ferocious urgency
1) Remain a member of the European Union
2) Leave the European Union
So you are on a game show and your question to win a million quid “Is the UK a member of the EU?”
It would be a very expensive point of principle to say yes2 -
But someone would do it for the principles, because it never was about the economics. Or something similar.surrey_commuter said:
The referendum question was: Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union? The responses were:tailwindhome said:If Brexit is done with all those laws still on the statute book, how come Brexiteers want them off the statute book with such ferocious urgency
1) Remain a member of the European Union
2) Leave the European Union
So you are on a game show and your question to win a million quid “Is the UK a member of the EU?”
It would be a very expensive point of principle to say yes0 -
Depends on whats on the host's card.surrey_commuter said:
The referendum question was: Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union? The responses were:tailwindhome said:If Brexit is done with all those laws still on the statute book, how come Brexiteers want them off the statute book with such ferocious urgency
1) Remain a member of the European Union
2) Leave the European Union
So you are on a game show and your question to win a million quid “Is the UK a member of the EU?”
It would be a very expensive point of principle to say yes
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
You're assuming the concept of Brexit and the UK leaving the EU are exactly the same thing. The evidence points to this not being true in the minds of those who campaigned for Brexit.0
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More accurate to say that we have left the EU but are still tied to it.surrey_commuter said:
The referendum question was: Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union? The responses were:tailwindhome said:If Brexit is done with all those laws still on the statute book, how come Brexiteers want them off the statute book with such ferocious urgency
1) Remain a member of the European Union
2) Leave the European Union
So you are on a game show and your question to win a million quid “Is the UK a member of the EU?”
It would be a very expensive point of principle to say yes
Much more than Brexiteers would like to admit.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I will try to explain my thinking.
For the “swivel eyed loons” the EU has dominated their entire adult lives to such an extent that they can not celebrate the successful culmination of their life’s work. They have become remarkably bad winners but as with their 40 year campaign to leave they have been allowed to dictate the terms of the post-Brexit debate.
They argue that our future relationship with the EU is all part of Brexit because the EU is all consuming for them and are defined by their opposition to it.
Most people would agree that WW1 ended with the signing of the Versailles Agreement as most people would agree that we have left the EU and Brexit was completed with the signing of whatever Theresa May signed.
The argument that Brexit is not complete because ongoing stuff is a consequence of Brexit is like arguing WW1 has not ended because the shape of the war in Ukraine is a consequence of it.0 -
In summary. Brexit has ended. The consequences have not.
What makes it darkly funny is the Brexiteers moaning most about the consequences.
"This is not the Brexit we voted for.". Yes. It. Is.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
surrey_commuter said:
I will try to explain my thinking.
For the “swivel eyed loons” the EU has dominated their entire adult lives to such an extent that they can not celebrate the successful culmination of their life’s work. They have become remarkably bad winners but as with their 40 year campaign to leave they have been allowed to dictate the terms of the post-Brexit debate.
They argue that our future relationship with the EU is all part of Brexit because the EU is all consuming for them and are defined by their opposition to it.
Most people would agree that WW1 ended with the signing of the Versailles Agreement as most people would agree that we have left the EU and Brexit was completed with the signing of whatever Theresa May signed.
The argument that Brexit is not complete because ongoing stuff is a consequence of Brexit is like arguing WW1 has not ended because the shape of the war in Ukraine is a consequence of it.
That works up to a point - the point being that what defined WW1 was the fighting/killing, and 11/11/18 saw a stop to that - the treaty in 1919 set the terms for future relationships, but had no part in actually stopping the war.
I agree with your assessment of Brexit loons, but actual Brexit hasn't stopped the conflict for them, it's more like the Versailles treaty, which, as we know, only too well, partially set up the conditions for WW2.0 -
Good summary.pblakeney said:In summary. Brexit has ended. The consequences have not.
What makes it darkly funny is the Brexiteers moaning most about the consequences.
"This is not the Brexit we voted for.". Yes. It. Is.
They are filling an enormous void in their lives and it annoys me that peope allow themselves to be mugged off into letting them set the agenda. They should want to be retired off to celebrate their victory and instead they just want to stoke the fires.0 -
Is it not just that their belief in being stronger out of the EU has been proved demonstrably wrong?surrey_commuter said:I will try to explain my thinking.
For the “swivel eyed loons” the EU has dominated their entire adult lives to such an extent that they can not celebrate the successful culmination of their life’s work. They have become remarkably bad winners but as with their 40 year campaign to leave they have been allowed to dictate the terms of the post-Brexit debate.
They argue that our future relationship with the EU is all part of Brexit because the EU is all consuming for them and are defined by their opposition to it.
Most people would agree that WW1 ended with the signing of the Versailles Agreement as most people would agree that we have left the EU and Brexit was completed with the signing of whatever Theresa May signed.
The argument that Brexit is not complete because ongoing stuff is a consequence of Brexit is like arguing WW1 has not ended because the shape of the war in Ukraine is a consequence of it.0 -
I am focussing on the public face of Brexit leadership (so original ERG) and for them it was always about the primacy of the HoP which is what they meant by sovereignty.rick_chasey said:
Is it not just that their belief in being stronger out of the EU has been proved demonstrably wrong?surrey_commuter said:I will try to explain my thinking.
For the “swivel eyed loons” the EU has dominated their entire adult lives to such an extent that they can not celebrate the successful culmination of their life’s work. They have become remarkably bad winners but as with their 40 year campaign to leave they have been allowed to dictate the terms of the post-Brexit debate.
They argue that our future relationship with the EU is all part of Brexit because the EU is all consuming for them and are defined by their opposition to it.
Most people would agree that WW1 ended with the signing of the Versailles Agreement as most people would agree that we have left the EU and Brexit was completed with the signing of whatever Theresa May signed.
The argument that Brexit is not complete because ongoing stuff is a consequence of Brexit is like arguing WW1 has not ended because the shape of the war in Ukraine is a consequence of it.0 -
Quite selective, no? I think the nub of the argument is that for the literalists, Brexit = leaving the EU, whereas for those more ideologically invested (on either side) leaving the EU was only part of a larger and as yet unfulfilled idea. There is of course no official definition of what Brexit is, allowing it to be all things to all people, which was used to the Leave campaign's advantage.surrey_commuter said:
I am focussing on the public face of Brexit leadership (so original ERG) and for them it was always about the primacy of the HoP which is what they meant by sovereignty.rick_chasey said:
Is it not just that their belief in being stronger out of the EU has been proved demonstrably wrong?surrey_commuter said:I will try to explain my thinking.
For the “swivel eyed loons” the EU has dominated their entire adult lives to such an extent that they can not celebrate the successful culmination of their life’s work. They have become remarkably bad winners but as with their 40 year campaign to leave they have been allowed to dictate the terms of the post-Brexit debate.
They argue that our future relationship with the EU is all part of Brexit because the EU is all consuming for them and are defined by their opposition to it.
Most people would agree that WW1 ended with the signing of the Versailles Agreement as most people would agree that we have left the EU and Brexit was completed with the signing of whatever Theresa May signed.
The argument that Brexit is not complete because ongoing stuff is a consequence of Brexit is like arguing WW1 has not ended because the shape of the war in Ukraine is a consequence of it.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
surrey_commuter said:
The referendum question was: Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union? The responses were:tailwindhome said:If Brexit is done with all those laws still on the statute book, how come Brexiteers want them off the statute book with such ferocious urgency
1) Remain a member of the European Union
2) Leave the European Union
So you are on a game show and your question to win a million quid “Is the UK a member of the EU?”
It would be a very expensive point of principle to say yes
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
This is so wrong - the question on the ballot paper was literally “should the UK leave the EU”rjsterry said:
Quite selective, no? I think the nub of the argument is that for the literalists, Brexit = leaving the EU, whereas for those more ideologically invested (on either side) leaving the EU was only part of a larger and as yet unfulfilled idea. There is of course no official definition of what Brexit is, allowing it to be all things to all people, which was used to the Leave campaign's advantage.surrey_commuter said:
I am focussing on the public face of Brexit leadership (so original ERG) and for them it was always about the primacy of the HoP which is what they meant by sovereignty.rick_chasey said:
Is it not just that their belief in being stronger out of the EU has been proved demonstrably wrong?surrey_commuter said:I will try to explain my thinking.
For the “swivel eyed loons” the EU has dominated their entire adult lives to such an extent that they can not celebrate the successful culmination of their life’s work. They have become remarkably bad winners but as with their 40 year campaign to leave they have been allowed to dictate the terms of the post-Brexit debate.
They argue that our future relationship with the EU is all part of Brexit because the EU is all consuming for them and are defined by their opposition to it.
Most people would agree that WW1 ended with the signing of the Versailles Agreement as most people would agree that we have left the EU and Brexit was completed with the signing of whatever Theresa May signed.
The argument that Brexit is not complete because ongoing stuff is a consequence of Brexit is like arguing WW1 has not ended because the shape of the war in Ukraine is a consequence of it.
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Yes, but the meaning of Brexit is that Brexit means Brexit.surrey_commuter said:
This is so wrong - the question on the ballot paper was literally “should the UK leave the EU”rjsterry said:
Quite selective, no? I think the nub of the argument is that for the literalists, Brexit = leaving the EU, whereas for those more ideologically invested (on either side) leaving the EU was only part of a larger and as yet unfulfilled idea. There is of course no official definition of what Brexit is, allowing it to be all things to all people, which was used to the Leave campaign's advantage.surrey_commuter said:
I am focussing on the public face of Brexit leadership (so original ERG) and for them it was always about the primacy of the HoP which is what they meant by sovereignty.rick_chasey said:
Is it not just that their belief in being stronger out of the EU has been proved demonstrably wrong?surrey_commuter said:I will try to explain my thinking.
For the “swivel eyed loons” the EU has dominated their entire adult lives to such an extent that they can not celebrate the successful culmination of their life’s work. They have become remarkably bad winners but as with their 40 year campaign to leave they have been allowed to dictate the terms of the post-Brexit debate.
They argue that our future relationship with the EU is all part of Brexit because the EU is all consuming for them and are defined by their opposition to it.
Most people would agree that WW1 ended with the signing of the Versailles Agreement as most people would agree that we have left the EU and Brexit was completed with the signing of whatever Theresa May signed.
The argument that Brexit is not complete because ongoing stuff is a consequence of Brexit is like arguing WW1 has not ended because the shape of the war in Ukraine is a consequence of it.0 -
Nope, Brexit means the withdrawal of the UK from the EU. Look it up it is in the dictionary.kingstongraham said:
Yes, but the meaning of Brexit is that Brexit means Brexit.surrey_commuter said:
This is so wrong - the question on the ballot paper was literally “should the UK leave the EU”rjsterry said:
Quite selective, no? I think the nub of the argument is that for the literalists, Brexit = leaving the EU, whereas for those more ideologically invested (on either side) leaving the EU was only part of a larger and as yet unfulfilled idea. There is of course no official definition of what Brexit is, allowing it to be all things to all people, which was used to the Leave campaign's advantage.surrey_commuter said:
I am focussing on the public face of Brexit leadership (so original ERG) and for them it was always about the primacy of the HoP which is what they meant by sovereignty.rick_chasey said:
Is it not just that their belief in being stronger out of the EU has been proved demonstrably wrong?surrey_commuter said:I will try to explain my thinking.
For the “swivel eyed loons” the EU has dominated their entire adult lives to such an extent that they can not celebrate the successful culmination of their life’s work. They have become remarkably bad winners but as with their 40 year campaign to leave they have been allowed to dictate the terms of the post-Brexit debate.
They argue that our future relationship with the EU is all part of Brexit because the EU is all consuming for them and are defined by their opposition to it.
Most people would agree that WW1 ended with the signing of the Versailles Agreement as most people would agree that we have left the EU and Brexit was completed with the signing of whatever Theresa May signed.
The argument that Brexit is not complete because ongoing stuff is a consequence of Brexit is like arguing WW1 has not ended because the shape of the war in Ukraine is a consequence of it.
Alternatively, every time you speak or think this nonsense imagine JRM laughing (in latin) at you.0 -
Another Telegraph article debunking one of the central claims for Brexit...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/11/11/lord-wolfson-right-britain-needs-low-skilled-foreign-workers/At a time when tax rises and spending cuts are on the horizon, we all understand how vital these contributions are. That the average eastern European migrant contributes £1,000 more each year (in net terms) to the Treasury’s coffers than the average UK-born adult shows how valuable these workers are to getting Britain back on track.
In his party conference speech last year, the then prime minister Boris Johnson suggested that his crackdown on immigration was paving the way to a "high wage" economy. It was discovered quickly how wrong he was. The trends he was pointing to were not signs of soaring wages thanks to absent workers, but rather signs of inflation: an economic phenomenon that makes us all poorer.
It would be a grave mistake to pretend now, as the economic situation worsens, that the solution is to pit native workers and low-skilled foreign workers against each other again. To get out of the inflation-driven economic mess we’re in, we are going to need both of them.0 -
I am a firm believer that we have left the EU, on the basis that we have. However, we still see this sort of headline in The Telegraph:surrey_commuter said:
Nope, Brexit means the withdrawal of the UK from the EU. Look it up it is in the dictionary.kingstongraham said:
Yes, but the meaning of Brexit is that Brexit means Brexit.surrey_commuter said:
This is so wrong - the question on the ballot paper was literally “should the UK leave the EU”rjsterry said:
Quite selective, no? I think the nub of the argument is that for the literalists, Brexit = leaving the EU, whereas for those more ideologically invested (on either side) leaving the EU was only part of a larger and as yet unfulfilled idea. There is of course no official definition of what Brexit is, allowing it to be all things to all people, which was used to the Leave campaign's advantage.surrey_commuter said:
I am focussing on the public face of Brexit leadership (so original ERG) and for them it was always about the primacy of the HoP which is what they meant by sovereignty.rick_chasey said:
Is it not just that their belief in being stronger out of the EU has been proved demonstrably wrong?surrey_commuter said:I will try to explain my thinking.
For the “swivel eyed loons” the EU has dominated their entire adult lives to such an extent that they can not celebrate the successful culmination of their life’s work. They have become remarkably bad winners but as with their 40 year campaign to leave they have been allowed to dictate the terms of the post-Brexit debate.
They argue that our future relationship with the EU is all part of Brexit because the EU is all consuming for them and are defined by their opposition to it.
Most people would agree that WW1 ended with the signing of the Versailles Agreement as most people would agree that we have left the EU and Brexit was completed with the signing of whatever Theresa May signed.
The argument that Brexit is not complete because ongoing stuff is a consequence of Brexit is like arguing WW1 has not ended because the shape of the war in Ukraine is a consequence of it.
Alternatively, every time you speak or think this nonsense imagine JRM laughing (in latin) at you.
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