BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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You are one the few on here who I think is genuinely having a hard time due to Brexit rather than just 'not liking it', and I get what you are saying on that.skyblueamateur said:
Do you agree then that the DUP should give it 50 years then and stop their moaning?Stevo_666 said:
If you have a crystal ball then fine: otherwise, be patient and see how things go. Not much choice in reality...briantrumpet said:
I suspect you'd find that all the posters on here are doing the best with the situations they are in, but you really shouldn't ber surprised that they are going to make observations about the larger political picture and what pile of poo Brexit has turned out to be, and how the government might mitigate the poo. If you can't admit the underlying problem, you're never going to deal with it, you'll just tinker with the symptoms... which, of course, is better than doing nothing at all.Stevo_666 said:
Of course you can do both, but there isn't much evidence of that on here.pangolin said:The notion that you can either make the best of your situation OR acknowledge that the situation is not great, never both, is such a boring strawman.
I have been pragmatic through all of this and like most SME’s have got our heads down and got on with things.
As some of our parts come from the Far East we have been essentially trading with the EU on WTO terms. There is no ‘deal’. There will be a huge number of SME’s similar to ourselves.
As mentioned on here previously we have seen the biggest increase in paperwork, red tape and beaurocracy in generations if not ever.
Coupled with a trebling in costs of shipping due to duty, customs clearance etc it has been a tough, tough couple of years.
Johnson wasn’t wrong when he said ‘f*ck business’ but we get on with things.
Forgive me if I’m incredulous though that they will then ride rough shod over their ‘deal’ for the sake of the DUP. I wish they’d stop moaning and just get on with things. Would you not agree?
Or is it okay to renegotiate certain parts of the deal but anything that would help business is off the table for 50 years?
I'm not saying that any initiatives to improve things for business should be off the table for any period, but let's be realistic - despite the hopes of some, the chances of us rejoining the EU or SM in the foreseeable future are vanishingly small so we need to be looking at other options.
As for the DUP/NI stuff, some may dislike for saying this but it is not that big an issue from my point of view and I can't get that interested TBH."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]1 -
Good reply. I agree Brexit has been blamed for a lot of things. As you say it is usually a culmination of issues. I've always tried to be even-handed and play with a straight bat in that regards and if you look back at my posts from around that time I was banging the drum that a lot of the issues were around global transportation issues and surging costs related to that.Stevo_666 said:
You are one the few on here who I think is genuinely having a hard time due to Brexit rather than just 'not liking it', and I get what you are saying on that.skyblueamateur said:
Do you agree then that the DUP should give it 50 years then and stop their moaning?Stevo_666 said:
If you have a crystal ball then fine: otherwise, be patient and see how things go. Not much choice in reality...briantrumpet said:
I suspect you'd find that all the posters on here are doing the best with the situations they are in, but you really shouldn't ber surprised that they are going to make observations about the larger political picture and what pile of poo Brexit has turned out to be, and how the government might mitigate the poo. If you can't admit the underlying problem, you're never going to deal with it, you'll just tinker with the symptoms... which, of course, is better than doing nothing at all.Stevo_666 said:
Of course you can do both, but there isn't much evidence of that on here.pangolin said:The notion that you can either make the best of your situation OR acknowledge that the situation is not great, never both, is such a boring strawman.
I have been pragmatic through all of this and like most SME’s have got our heads down and got on with things.
As some of our parts come from the Far East we have been essentially trading with the EU on WTO terms. There is no ‘deal’. There will be a huge number of SME’s similar to ourselves.
As mentioned on here previously we have seen the biggest increase in paperwork, red tape and beaurocracy in generations if not ever.
Coupled with a trebling in costs of shipping due to duty, customs clearance etc it has been a tough, tough couple of years.
Johnson wasn’t wrong when he said ‘f*ck business’ but we get on with things.
Forgive me if I’m incredulous though that they will then ride rough shod over their ‘deal’ for the sake of the DUP. I wish they’d stop moaning and just get on with things. Would you not agree?
Or is it okay to renegotiate certain parts of the deal but anything that would help business is off the table for 50 years?
I'm not saying that any initiatives to improve things for business should be off the table for any period, but let's be realistic - despite the hopes of some, the chances of us rejoining the EU or SM in the foreseeable future are vanishingly small so we need to be looking at other options.
As for the DUP/NI stuff, some may dislike for saying this but it is not that big an issue from my point of view and I can't get that interested TBH.
I've accepted that this is the new norm but it makes my p1ss boil when I see the likes of Truss and Johnson whining about the deal that they negotiated with regards to NI. If they want to start a trade war then so be it, I've had the sh1ttiest side of this 'deal' for a couple of years so it won't be too much bother for me. As I give two sh1ts about the economy though the sooner we get rid of Johnson and the pathetic excuse of a cabinet, get a sensible PM in charge who won't pander to the likes of the DUP and the ERG,the sooner we can make the most of a bad deal and move forwards.2 -
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There's a weird disconnect (on the NI stuff) between things Conservative voters care about and things the Conservative back benches 'care about'Stevo_666 said:
You are one the few on here who I think is genuinely having a hard time due to Brexit rather than just 'not liking it', and I get what you are saying on that.skyblueamateur said:
Do you agree then that the DUP should give it 50 years then and stop their moaning?Stevo_666 said:
If you have a crystal ball then fine: otherwise, be patient and see how things go. Not much choice in reality...briantrumpet said:
I suspect you'd find that all the posters on here are doing the best with the situations they are in, but you really shouldn't ber surprised that they are going to make observations about the larger political picture and what pile of poo Brexit has turned out to be, and how the government might mitigate the poo. If you can't admit the underlying problem, you're never going to deal with it, you'll just tinker with the symptoms... which, of course, is better than doing nothing at all.Stevo_666 said:
Of course you can do both, but there isn't much evidence of that on here.pangolin said:The notion that you can either make the best of your situation OR acknowledge that the situation is not great, never both, is such a boring strawman.
I have been pragmatic through all of this and like most SME’s have got our heads down and got on with things.
As some of our parts come from the Far East we have been essentially trading with the EU on WTO terms. There is no ‘deal’. There will be a huge number of SME’s similar to ourselves.
As mentioned on here previously we have seen the biggest increase in paperwork, red tape and beaurocracy in generations if not ever.
Coupled with a trebling in costs of shipping due to duty, customs clearance etc it has been a tough, tough couple of years.
Johnson wasn’t wrong when he said ‘f*ck business’ but we get on with things.
Forgive me if I’m incredulous though that they will then ride rough shod over their ‘deal’ for the sake of the DUP. I wish they’d stop moaning and just get on with things. Would you not agree?
Or is it okay to renegotiate certain parts of the deal but anything that would help business is off the table for 50 years?
I'm not saying that any initiatives to improve things for business should be off the table for any period, but let's be realistic - despite the hopes of some, the chances of us rejoining the EU or SM in the foreseeable future are vanishingly small so we need to be looking at other options.
As for the DUP/NI stuff, some may dislike for saying this but it is not that big an issue from my point of view and I can't get that interested TBH.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
This is a longish but interesting piece on how the Government is trying to present breaking international law as 'legal'.
https://davidallengreen.com/2022/06/the-odd-and-worrying-situation-of-the-legal-advice-on-the-northern-ireland-protocol/
tl;dr Ask the rightpatsyperson (Braverman) and try to keep any other opinions off the radar.0 -
There's a poetry in Boris ending up in more or less the same trap as his predecessor“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
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Seems so.tailwindhome said:
There's a weird disconnect (on the NI stuff) between things Conservative voters care about and things the Conservative back benches 'care about'Stevo_666 said:
You are one the few on here who I think is genuinely having a hard time due to Brexit rather than just 'not liking it', and I get what you are saying on that.skyblueamateur said:
Do you agree then that the DUP should give it 50 years then and stop their moaning?Stevo_666 said:
If you have a crystal ball then fine: otherwise, be patient and see how things go. Not much choice in reality...briantrumpet said:
I suspect you'd find that all the posters on here are doing the best with the situations they are in, but you really shouldn't ber surprised that they are going to make observations about the larger political picture and what pile of poo Brexit has turned out to be, and how the government might mitigate the poo. If you can't admit the underlying problem, you're never going to deal with it, you'll just tinker with the symptoms... which, of course, is better than doing nothing at all.Stevo_666 said:
Of course you can do both, but there isn't much evidence of that on here.pangolin said:The notion that you can either make the best of your situation OR acknowledge that the situation is not great, never both, is such a boring strawman.
I have been pragmatic through all of this and like most SME’s have got our heads down and got on with things.
As some of our parts come from the Far East we have been essentially trading with the EU on WTO terms. There is no ‘deal’. There will be a huge number of SME’s similar to ourselves.
As mentioned on here previously we have seen the biggest increase in paperwork, red tape and beaurocracy in generations if not ever.
Coupled with a trebling in costs of shipping due to duty, customs clearance etc it has been a tough, tough couple of years.
Johnson wasn’t wrong when he said ‘f*ck business’ but we get on with things.
Forgive me if I’m incredulous though that they will then ride rough shod over their ‘deal’ for the sake of the DUP. I wish they’d stop moaning and just get on with things. Would you not agree?
Or is it okay to renegotiate certain parts of the deal but anything that would help business is off the table for 50 years?
I'm not saying that any initiatives to improve things for business should be off the table for any period, but let's be realistic - despite the hopes of some, the chances of us rejoining the EU or SM in the foreseeable future are vanishingly small so we need to be looking at other options.
As for the DUP/NI stuff, some may dislike for saying this but it is not that big an issue from my point of view and I can't get that interested TBH."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
ddraver said:
As opposed to us that have had our lives ruined I suppose... 🙄
There's some handy advice on the last page:
wallace_and_gromit said:
Show previous quotes
But either way, directing one's energies to productive use minimises the losses, whereas complaining just helps the losses get bigger.
I've made this point several times, but it seems this is the thread where people just want to keep on complaining."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo_666 said:
I've made this point several times, but it seems this is the thread where people just want to keep on complaining.
As long as you refuse to take the point that wanting to move the dial back to political pragmatism (i.e. the Brexit that happened is a big pile of poo, and that at least not cutting ourselves off more, and maybe moving back towards more co-operation might be beneficial) is not simply 'complaining', then you're going to be disappointed in this thread. By its very nature, wanting to move the political dial will involve pointing out the problems of the current situation. I've also made the point several times that Brexit itself happened because the likes of Farage were 'complaining' for forty years.0 -
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
ddraver said:
Brexiters always said that less immigration from nearby would allow for more from beyond. The nation’s global rather than continental orientation would be given room to express itself. It was the one promise they kept. Britain is now a country of high non-white immigration again — in construction, in healthcare — and mostly relaxed about the fact.0 -
The 'complaining' isn't just here... Seems like the Daily Mail is complaining too...
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Brexiters also said that we needed to leave the EU as Turkey was about to join and we'd be overrun with Turkish immigrants.TheBigBean said:ddraver said:
Brexiters always said that less immigration from nearby would allow for more from beyond. The nation’s global rather than continental orientation would be given room to express itself. It was the one promise they kept. Britain is now a country of high non-white immigration again — in construction, in healthcare — and mostly relaxed about the fact.0 -
Raver - you had clearly spent quite a lot of time working in the EU, so I've always wondered why you couldn't have applied to stay as others did?ddraver said:As opposed to us that have had our lives ruined I suppose... 🙄
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Unfortunately for raver there isn’t a shortage of Gigolo’s in France so he couldn’t get a sponsor.Dorset_Boy said:
Raver - you had clearly spent quite a lot of time working in the EU, so I've always wondered why you couldn't have applied to stay as others did?ddraver said:As opposed to us that have had our lives ruined I suppose... 🙄
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Well, I had 2 HR departments in 3 separate countries try and find out that it was no longer possible. In all 3 cases this is with a few years of having social security numbers, tax paid etc etc.
One an oil company, one, the largest transfer company in the French Alps.
It wasn't through lack of trying, effort or expertise. I am far from the only one, but our stories arent considered important by the UK media so you'll only find them on page 26.
The story is detailed in these here pages if you want to go back and read it. It's not something I have a sense of humour about. If there had been some benefit to the country then perhaps I could have got more on board but as we daily discover there are only downsides to it, it is all the more heartbreaking.
(I'll have you know my hairy beer belly set hearts a flutter from Prague to Portugal Webboo!)We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver2 -
This sounds like it might be a remake of "breaking the law in a very specific and limited way", even if it is watered down. Taking legal advice from a Trump lawyer doesn't sound very wise.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/11/boris-johnson-warned-ni-protocol-rule-breaking-will-repeat-mistakes-of-partygateIt has also been established that views on the legality of the proposals were taken from Tom Grant, an academic lawyer who worked in the US state department during the Trump administration. He has been advising on the bill and has previously written legal articles supporting a very hard Brexit. Whitehall sources said while he offered advice, he was not a central part of the legal team.0 -
Iain Martin (a brexiter) starts out quite promisingly with this thread, admitting things aren't great (and even better, mentions 'pragmatism'):
But then tries backpedalling, and gets his chain a bit mangled:
Curiously, he doesn't give any reason why he's glad we've left.0 -
We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
I thought it was that old favourite sovereignty/freedom.briantrumpet said:Iain Martin (a brexiter) starts out quite promisingly with this thread, admitting things aren't great (and even better, mentions 'pragmatism'):
But then tries backpedalling, and gets his chain a bit mangled:
Curiously, he doesn't give any reason why he's glad we've left.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
May must be drunk on schadenfreude.tailwindhome said:There's a poetry in Boris ending up in more or less the same trap as his predecessor
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Feel free to complain for 40 years. As the reality is, we won't be going back for a long time, if at all. Who knows what the EU will look like by then. Or if they would ever have us back.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
I've made this point several times, but it seems this is the thread where people just want to keep on complaining.
As long as you refuse to take the point that wanting to move the dial back to political pragmatism (i.e. the Brexit that happened is a big pile of poo, and that at least not cutting ourselves off more, and maybe moving back towards more co-operation might be beneficial) is not simply 'complaining', then you're going to be disappointed in this thread. By its very nature, wanting to move the political dial will involve pointing out the problems of the current situation. I've also made the point several times that Brexit itself happened because the likes of Farage were 'complaining' for forty years.
We could rehash the old debates about how much it is a 'Big pile of poo' or not - but as mentioned before, I've moved onto more important things. Which speaks for itself."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
The nature of the future relationship is not a given and even in the government there is a divergence or opinion on what it ought to be.Stevo_666 said:
Feel free to complain for 40 years. As the reality is, we won't be going back for a long time, if at all. Who knows what the EU will look like by then. Or if they would ever have us back.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
I've made this point several times, but it seems this is the thread where people just want to keep on complaining.
As long as you refuse to take the point that wanting to move the dial back to political pragmatism (i.e. the Brexit that happened is a big pile of poo, and that at least not cutting ourselves off more, and maybe moving back towards more co-operation might be beneficial) is not simply 'complaining', then you're going to be disappointed in this thread. By its very nature, wanting to move the political dial will involve pointing out the problems of the current situation. I've also made the point several times that Brexit itself happened because the likes of Farage were 'complaining' for forty years.
We could rehash the old debates about how much it is a 'Big pile of poo' or not - but as mentioned before, I've moved onto more important things. Which speaks for itself.
The govt itself is trying to renegotiate the agreement so this idea that it’s done and people need to “move on” is a misunderstanding of the situation0 -
I'd be surprised if joining the SM or SU didn't become a fairly mainstream political position within the next decade.
Given how much the EU apparently f***ed up the vaccine roll out, it seems no closer to the collapse that Stevo is so desperate for.0 -
Sometimes you need to put your flag down.ddraver said:Regular reminder that I (37) would have been vaccinated sooner in the EU than I was in the UK...
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