BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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surrey_commuter said:
I don't believe we will starve as the UK is relatively rich and will be able to purchase food at the prevailing world market rate. If we grew it ourselves surely we would have to stop producers from selling it for the best price on the world market or we would be no better off?briantrumpet said:surrey_commuter said:
would you also impose an export ban on UK farm produce?briantrumpet said:A "cascade of export bans" of staple foodstuffs... are we really sure that relying to a very large degree on importing our most basic food needs is a great idea?
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/may/17/ukraine-farming-group-warns-of-cascade-of-export-bans-without-new-grain-routes
Not sure what that's got to do with my point. I'd not blame countries who protect the food supply for their own citizens.
Did I ever mention I have an allotment
I suspect you're right that we won't starve, but (in case you haven't guessed) I still don't think it's a good idea to leave domestic food production at the mercy of world markets, as the current situation illustrates how quickly things can go wrong. And in those circumstances, would it be right that our buying power could cause even more starvation elsewhere in the world, if we've taken the short-sighted view of not encouraging (or at least maintaining) our own domestic production in the longer term?
As Germany has discovered with its energy needs, if you have reduced internal resources, you expose yourself much more acutely to international disruptions. I still am sure that Putin's aim with Ukraine was to leverage food production, along with energy supplies, to increase Russia's ability to screw the rest of the world for its own benefit.0 -
That's fair enough if someone in GB is complaining about the walled garden. The problem is that NI is something of a special case.surrey_commuter said:
Try and see the EU as a walled garden. By building a large wall (regulations, border controls and tarifs) the EU allows member states to operate as one single market. A seller in Paris can serve a customer in Madrid as easily as a seller in London can serve a customer in Manchester.john80 said:
The point I am trying to get at is regulation aimed at getting business to self comply is usually the best form of regulation. In the case of goods the paperwork trail is pretty good to capture non compliance. Criminals will always be criminals but all businesses want is a level playing field and governments want a high percentage of compliance.tailwindhome said:ddraver said:
It's a challenging concept.skyblueamateur said:
But the border between ROI and NI is porous I don't see how it's workable.wallace_and_gromit said:
I think that's where the "Trusted" part of the definition comes from. There would be a lot of work required to vet and accredit suitable traders for the scheme to work. But it's probably a "good" idea that will demonstrate the value of the old adage "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good".skyblueamateur said:The bit of the 'trusted trader' scheme we're proposing that confuses me is if I sell a product to a company in NI how do I know it's staying in NI and not being sold on into ROI or the EU?
I can fully understand why the EU doesn't think this is a goer.
I can fully understand why the EU wouldn't trust anything proposed by the UK given the insults and threats over the last few years.
It doesn't matter if it's sold in NI and then driven to Ireland by the final use customer (well...it does, but for most goods this is going to happen to, it doesn't). It does matter if it is taken to a warehouse and then redistributed for sale in Ireland (or anywhere outside of GB)
I don't get thisjohn80 said:
Al Capone did not get convicted for violent acts. He got done for tax evasion. There is a lesson in there somewhere for the EU. Doubt they will get it though as there dream is fall all goods in Northern Ireland to come from the EU and nothing from the UK. They are a protectionist organisation after all.skyblueamateur said:The bit of the 'trusted trader' scheme we're proposing that confuses me is if I sell a product to a company in NI how do I know it's staying in NI and not being sold on into ROI or the EU?
I can fully understand why the EU doesn't think this is a goer.
If you are outside the wall then this is no longer the case and you have to follow all of the rules that the EU stipulates.
They are not bullying the UK as that is the case for all non-EU members.
This is precisely what you voted for and I really think that you should own it0 -
N.I. is only a special case because Brits think the U.K. is a single island. It is not.TheBigBean said:
That's fair enough if someone in GB is complaining about the walled garden. The problem is that NI is something of a special case.surrey_commuter said:
Try and see the EU as a walled garden. By building a large wall (regulations, border controls and tarifs) the EU allows member states to operate as one single market. A seller in Paris can serve a customer in Madrid as easily as a seller in London can serve a customer in Manchester.john80 said:
The point I am trying to get at is regulation aimed at getting business to self comply is usually the best form of regulation. In the case of goods the paperwork trail is pretty good to capture non compliance. Criminals will always be criminals but all businesses want is a level playing field and governments want a high percentage of compliance.tailwindhome said:ddraver said:
It's a challenging concept.skyblueamateur said:
But the border between ROI and NI is porous I don't see how it's workable.wallace_and_gromit said:
I think that's where the "Trusted" part of the definition comes from. There would be a lot of work required to vet and accredit suitable traders for the scheme to work. But it's probably a "good" idea that will demonstrate the value of the old adage "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good".skyblueamateur said:The bit of the 'trusted trader' scheme we're proposing that confuses me is if I sell a product to a company in NI how do I know it's staying in NI and not being sold on into ROI or the EU?
I can fully understand why the EU doesn't think this is a goer.
I can fully understand why the EU wouldn't trust anything proposed by the UK given the insults and threats over the last few years.
It doesn't matter if it's sold in NI and then driven to Ireland by the final use customer (well...it does, but for most goods this is going to happen to, it doesn't). It does matter if it is taken to a warehouse and then redistributed for sale in Ireland (or anywhere outside of GB)
I don't get thisjohn80 said:
Al Capone did not get convicted for violent acts. He got done for tax evasion. There is a lesson in there somewhere for the EU. Doubt they will get it though as there dream is fall all goods in Northern Ireland to come from the EU and nothing from the UK. They are a protectionist organisation after all.skyblueamateur said:The bit of the 'trusted trader' scheme we're proposing that confuses me is if I sell a product to a company in NI how do I know it's staying in NI and not being sold on into ROI or the EU?
I can fully understand why the EU doesn't think this is a goer.
If you are outside the wall then this is no longer the case and you have to follow all of the rules that the EU stipulates.
They are not bullying the UK as that is the case for all non-EU members.
This is precisely what you voted for and I really think that you should own it
We have either a border with Ireland or we don't have borders. Pick one.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Personally I was happy with a border on Ireland and let the EU sort out the logistics as they were so keen on guys manning every road with their little clip boards. Given a week a few Irish would have been assaulted and the plan dropped. The UK was not too bothered and proposed checks away from borders. I can see why the UK chose to act as it did as it was in the majorities interests to avoid no deal.pblakeney said:
N.I. is only a special case because Brits think the U.K. is a single island. It is not.TheBigBean said:
That's fair enough if someone in GB is complaining about the walled garden. The problem is that NI is something of a special case.surrey_commuter said:
Try and see the EU as a walled garden. By building a large wall (regulations, border controls and tarifs) the EU allows member states to operate as one single market. A seller in Paris can serve a customer in Madrid as easily as a seller in London can serve a customer in Manchester.john80 said:
The point I am trying to get at is regulation aimed at getting business to self comply is usually the best form of regulation. In the case of goods the paperwork trail is pretty good to capture non compliance. Criminals will always be criminals but all businesses want is a level playing field and governments want a high percentage of compliance.tailwindhome said:ddraver said:
It's a challenging concept.skyblueamateur said:
But the border between ROI and NI is porous I don't see how it's workable.wallace_and_gromit said:
I think that's where the "Trusted" part of the definition comes from. There would be a lot of work required to vet and accredit suitable traders for the scheme to work. But it's probably a "good" idea that will demonstrate the value of the old adage "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good".skyblueamateur said:The bit of the 'trusted trader' scheme we're proposing that confuses me is if I sell a product to a company in NI how do I know it's staying in NI and not being sold on into ROI or the EU?
I can fully understand why the EU doesn't think this is a goer.
I can fully understand why the EU wouldn't trust anything proposed by the UK given the insults and threats over the last few years.
It doesn't matter if it's sold in NI and then driven to Ireland by the final use customer (well...it does, but for most goods this is going to happen to, it doesn't). It does matter if it is taken to a warehouse and then redistributed for sale in Ireland (or anywhere outside of GB)
I don't get thisjohn80 said:
Al Capone did not get convicted for violent acts. He got done for tax evasion. There is a lesson in there somewhere for the EU. Doubt they will get it though as there dream is fall all goods in Northern Ireland to come from the EU and nothing from the UK. They are a protectionist organisation after all.skyblueamateur said:The bit of the 'trusted trader' scheme we're proposing that confuses me is if I sell a product to a company in NI how do I know it's staying in NI and not being sold on into ROI or the EU?
I can fully understand why the EU doesn't think this is a goer.
If you are outside the wall then this is no longer the case and you have to follow all of the rules that the EU stipulates.
They are not bullying the UK as that is the case for all non-EU members.
This is precisely what you voted for and I really think that you should own it
We have either a border with Ireland or we don't have borders. Pick one.0 -
Seems like a well thought through planjohn80 said:
Personally I was happy with a border on Ireland and let the EU sort out the logistics as they were so keen on guys manning every road with their little clip boards. Given a week a few Irish would have been assaulted and the plan dropped. The UK was not too bothered and proposed checks away from borders. I can see why the UK chose to act as it did as it was in the majorities interests to avoid no deal.pblakeney said:
N.I. is only a special case because Brits think the U.K. is a single island. It is not.TheBigBean said:
That's fair enough if someone in GB is complaining about the walled garden. The problem is that NI is something of a special case.surrey_commuter said:
Try and see the EU as a walled garden. By building a large wall (regulations, border controls and tarifs) the EU allows member states to operate as one single market. A seller in Paris can serve a customer in Madrid as easily as a seller in London can serve a customer in Manchester.john80 said:
The point I am trying to get at is regulation aimed at getting business to self comply is usually the best form of regulation. In the case of goods the paperwork trail is pretty good to capture non compliance. Criminals will always be criminals but all businesses want is a level playing field and governments want a high percentage of compliance.tailwindhome said:ddraver said:
It's a challenging concept.skyblueamateur said:
But the border between ROI and NI is porous I don't see how it's workable.wallace_and_gromit said:
I think that's where the "Trusted" part of the definition comes from. There would be a lot of work required to vet and accredit suitable traders for the scheme to work. But it's probably a "good" idea that will demonstrate the value of the old adage "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good".skyblueamateur said:The bit of the 'trusted trader' scheme we're proposing that confuses me is if I sell a product to a company in NI how do I know it's staying in NI and not being sold on into ROI or the EU?
I can fully understand why the EU doesn't think this is a goer.
I can fully understand why the EU wouldn't trust anything proposed by the UK given the insults and threats over the last few years.
It doesn't matter if it's sold in NI and then driven to Ireland by the final use customer (well...it does, but for most goods this is going to happen to, it doesn't). It does matter if it is taken to a warehouse and then redistributed for sale in Ireland (or anywhere outside of GB)
I don't get thisjohn80 said:
Al Capone did not get convicted for violent acts. He got done for tax evasion. There is a lesson in there somewhere for the EU. Doubt they will get it though as there dream is fall all goods in Northern Ireland to come from the EU and nothing from the UK. They are a protectionist organisation after all.skyblueamateur said:The bit of the 'trusted trader' scheme we're proposing that confuses me is if I sell a product to a company in NI how do I know it's staying in NI and not being sold on into ROI or the EU?
I can fully understand why the EU doesn't think this is a goer.
If you are outside the wall then this is no longer the case and you have to follow all of the rules that the EU stipulates.
They are not bullying the UK as that is the case for all non-EU members.
This is precisely what you voted for and I really think that you should own it
We have either a border with Ireland or we don't have borders. Pick one.- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
Very good.john80 said:
Personally I was happy with a border on Ireland and let the EU sort out the logistics as they were so keen on guys manning every road with their little clip boards. Given a week a few Irish would have been assaulted and the plan dropped. The UK was not too bothered and proposed checks away from borders. I can see why the UK chose to act as it did as it was in the majorities interests to avoid no deal.pblakeney said:
N.I. is only a special case because Brits think the U.K. is a single island. It is not.TheBigBean said:
That's fair enough if someone in GB is complaining about the walled garden. The problem is that NI is something of a special case.surrey_commuter said:
Try and see the EU as a walled garden. By building a large wall (regulations, border controls and tarifs) the EU allows member states to operate as one single market. A seller in Paris can serve a customer in Madrid as easily as a seller in London can serve a customer in Manchester.john80 said:
The point I am trying to get at is regulation aimed at getting business to self comply is usually the best form of regulation. In the case of goods the paperwork trail is pretty good to capture non compliance. Criminals will always be criminals but all businesses want is a level playing field and governments want a high percentage of compliance.tailwindhome said:ddraver said:
It's a challenging concept.skyblueamateur said:
But the border between ROI and NI is porous I don't see how it's workable.wallace_and_gromit said:
I think that's where the "Trusted" part of the definition comes from. There would be a lot of work required to vet and accredit suitable traders for the scheme to work. But it's probably a "good" idea that will demonstrate the value of the old adage "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good".skyblueamateur said:The bit of the 'trusted trader' scheme we're proposing that confuses me is if I sell a product to a company in NI how do I know it's staying in NI and not being sold on into ROI or the EU?
I can fully understand why the EU doesn't think this is a goer.
I can fully understand why the EU wouldn't trust anything proposed by the UK given the insults and threats over the last few years.
It doesn't matter if it's sold in NI and then driven to Ireland by the final use customer (well...it does, but for most goods this is going to happen to, it doesn't). It does matter if it is taken to a warehouse and then redistributed for sale in Ireland (or anywhere outside of GB)
I don't get thisjohn80 said:
Al Capone did not get convicted for violent acts. He got done for tax evasion. There is a lesson in there somewhere for the EU. Doubt they will get it though as there dream is fall all goods in Northern Ireland to come from the EU and nothing from the UK. They are a protectionist organisation after all.skyblueamateur said:The bit of the 'trusted trader' scheme we're proposing that confuses me is if I sell a product to a company in NI how do I know it's staying in NI and not being sold on into ROI or the EU?
I can fully understand why the EU doesn't think this is a goer.
If you are outside the wall then this is no longer the case and you have to follow all of the rules that the EU stipulates.
They are not bullying the UK as that is the case for all non-EU members.
This is precisely what you voted for and I really think that you should own it
We have either a border with Ireland or we don't have borders. Pick one.
Now explain the legal difference between Dublin/Belfast and Calais/Dover.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
The British Govt had a choice of a border in the Irish Sea or on the Irish border and after weighing up the pros and cons went for the sea. The only problem seems to be that they pretended they had not done so.john80 said:
Personally I was happy with a border on Ireland and let the EU sort out the logistics as they were so keen on guys manning every road with their little clip boards. Given a week a few Irish would have been assaulted and the plan dropped. The UK was not too bothered and proposed checks away from borders. I can see why the UK chose to act as it did as it was in the majorities interests to avoid no deal.pblakeney said:
N.I. is only a special case because Brits think the U.K. is a single island. It is not.TheBigBean said:
That's fair enough if someone in GB is complaining about the walled garden. The problem is that NI is something of a special case.surrey_commuter said:
Try and see the EU as a walled garden. By building a large wall (regulations, border controls and tarifs) the EU allows member states to operate as one single market. A seller in Paris can serve a customer in Madrid as easily as a seller in London can serve a customer in Manchester.john80 said:
The point I am trying to get at is regulation aimed at getting business to self comply is usually the best form of regulation. In the case of goods the paperwork trail is pretty good to capture non compliance. Criminals will always be criminals but all businesses want is a level playing field and governments want a high percentage of compliance.tailwindhome said:ddraver said:
It's a challenging concept.skyblueamateur said:
But the border between ROI and NI is porous I don't see how it's workable.wallace_and_gromit said:
I think that's where the "Trusted" part of the definition comes from. There would be a lot of work required to vet and accredit suitable traders for the scheme to work. But it's probably a "good" idea that will demonstrate the value of the old adage "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good".skyblueamateur said:The bit of the 'trusted trader' scheme we're proposing that confuses me is if I sell a product to a company in NI how do I know it's staying in NI and not being sold on into ROI or the EU?
I can fully understand why the EU doesn't think this is a goer.
I can fully understand why the EU wouldn't trust anything proposed by the UK given the insults and threats over the last few years.
It doesn't matter if it's sold in NI and then driven to Ireland by the final use customer (well...it does, but for most goods this is going to happen to, it doesn't). It does matter if it is taken to a warehouse and then redistributed for sale in Ireland (or anywhere outside of GB)
I don't get thisjohn80 said:
Al Capone did not get convicted for violent acts. He got done for tax evasion. There is a lesson in there somewhere for the EU. Doubt they will get it though as there dream is fall all goods in Northern Ireland to come from the EU and nothing from the UK. They are a protectionist organisation after all.skyblueamateur said:The bit of the 'trusted trader' scheme we're proposing that confuses me is if I sell a product to a company in NI how do I know it's staying in NI and not being sold on into ROI or the EU?
I can fully understand why the EU doesn't think this is a goer.
If you are outside the wall then this is no longer the case and you have to follow all of the rules that the EU stipulates.
They are not bullying the UK as that is the case for all non-EU members.
This is precisely what you voted for and I really think that you should own it
We have either a border with Ireland or we don't have borders. Pick one.
Do we know if anybody has taken up Boris on his suggestion that any paperwork should be sent to him?0 -
that should be in the trivial things that cheer me upDorset_Boy said:
Proof that you're a townie!surrey_commuter said:
I don't believe we will starve as the UK is relatively rich and will be able to purchase food at the prevailing world market rate. If we grew it ourselves surely we would have to stop producers from selling it for the best price on the world market or we would be no better off?briantrumpet said:surrey_commuter said:
would you also impose an export ban on UK farm produce?briantrumpet said:A "cascade of export bans" of staple foodstuffs... are we really sure that relying to a very large degree on importing our most basic food needs is a great idea?
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/may/17/ukraine-farming-group-warns-of-cascade-of-export-bans-without-new-grain-routes
Not sure what that's got to do with my point. I'd not blame countries who protect the food supply for their own citizens.
Did I ever mention I have an allotment
Country folk have a garden big enough to not need an allotment!
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I guess this is a Brexit benefit: increased immigration.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/19/public-duped-long-term-visas-foreign-nationals-40pc-since-brexit/The number of foreign nationals granted visas to enter the UK long term has increased by 40 per cent since Brexit despite ministers’ pledges to take control of immigration, according to a new study.
The research, by the Migration Watch think tank, found that long-term visas granted to non-UK nationals last year totalled 830,000 – up from around 600,000 before Brexit.
Lower salary and skill thresholds for foreign workers, the widening classification of “shortage” jobs and the end of restrictions on students staying on to work after graduating have contributed to the surge.
While the number of EU nationals who now need visas has dwindled to around 50,000 from a peak of around 280,000 in 2015-16, the number of non-EU nationals coming to the UK to work, study, resettle or live with their families has risen sharply.
Some 210,000 – a quarter of the 830,000 granted – were work visas, up from the average of 160,000 per year for the period 2010 to 2020.0 -
I don't get the commnt about the number of EU nationals that needed a visa peaking at 280,000 in 2015-16, I thought EU nationals didn't need a visa? Initially I assumed that the increase would be down mainly to the number of EU nationals that have opted to stay now needing visas. I'm also dubious of anything that Migration Watch comes up with, they strike me as a bunch of racists masquerading as a 'think tank' (how I hate that phrase!).0
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It threw my Dad off kilter when I explained that Brexit meant more people of other ethnic origins coming into the country. Not what he voted for.briantrumpet said:I guess this is a Brexit benefit: increased immigration.
...
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Yes, I have made this point to a few people. If you voted Brexit as a racist and specifically from a reduced immigration perspective…pblakeney said:
It threw my Dad off kilter when I explained that Brexit meant more people of other ethnic origins coming into the country. Not what he voted for.briantrumpet said:I guess this is a Brexit benefit: increased immigration.
...
But they knew…0 -
I have to laugh at the old racist trope. For those making these claims what percentage of the population do they think are actually racist. I mean proper racist where they want to treat another race as inferior. Not just old people falling foul of the miss use of language.0
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An interesting read re food supplies. And, I'd argue, another reason not to rely totally on the free market for our most fundamental needs.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/may/19/banks-collapsed-in-2008-food-system-same-producers-regulatorsOne of the fastest cultural shifts in human history is the convergence towards a “Global Standard Diet”. While our food has become locally more diverse, globally it has become less diverse. Just four crops – wheat, rice, maize and soy – account for almost 60% of the calories grown by farmers. Their production is now highly concentrated in a handful of nations, including Russia and Ukraine. The Global Standard Diet is grown by the Global Standard Farm, supplied by the same corporations with the same packages of seed, chemicals and machinery, and vulnerable to the same environmental shocks.
The food industry is becoming tightly coupled to the financial sector, increasing what scientists call the “network density” of the system, making it more susceptible to cascading failure. Around the world, trade barriers have come down and roads and ports upgraded, streamlining the global network. You might imagine that this smooth system would enhance food security. But it has allowed companies to shed the costs of warehousing and inventories, switching from stocks to flows. Mostly, this just-in-time strategy works. But if deliveries are interrupted or there’s a rapid surge in demand, shelves can suddenly empty.0 -
My Dad is a racist and quite happy to admit it.john80 said:I have to laugh at the old racist trope. For those making these claims what percentage of the population do they think are actually racist. I mean proper racist where they want to treat another race as inferior. Not just old people falling foul of the miss use of language.
More than a few in the pub after quaffing a few too. Only around the "right" people, natch.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
This was one of the reasons quite a few people e.g. Filipina nurses voted for Brexitbriantrumpet said:I guess this is a Brexit benefit: increased immigration.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/19/public-duped-long-term-visas-foreign-nationals-40pc-since-brexit/The number of foreign nationals granted visas to enter the UK long term has increased by 40 per cent since Brexit despite ministers’ pledges to take control of immigration, according to a new study.
The research, by the Migration Watch think tank, found that long-term visas granted to non-UK nationals last year totalled 830,000 – up from around 600,000 before Brexit.
Lower salary and skill thresholds for foreign workers, the widening classification of “shortage” jobs and the end of restrictions on students staying on to work after graduating have contributed to the surge.
While the number of EU nationals who now need visas has dwindled to around 50,000 from a peak of around 280,000 in 2015-16, the number of non-EU nationals coming to the UK to work, study, resettle or live with their families has risen sharply.
Some 210,000 – a quarter of the 830,000 granted – were work visas, up from the average of 160,000 per year for the period 2010 to 2020.0 -
I explicitly used IF as a qualifier.john80 said:I have to laugh at the old racist trope. For those making these claims what percentage of the population do they think are actually racist. I mean proper racist where they want to treat another race as inferior. Not just old people falling foul of the miss use of language.
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morstar said:
I explicitly used IF as a qualifier.john80 said:I have to laugh at the old racist trope. For those making these claims what percentage of the population do they think are actually racist. I mean proper racist where they want to treat another race as inferior. Not just old people falling foul of the miss use of language.
I don't
10% of any country - fervant racists, zenophobes, nationalists - Ultras, Nazis, BNP, Blackshirts, Skinheads, MAGA, Charlotsville protesters, KKK, Gert Wilders/VVD- call them what you will...
20% on top of that - people who range from quietly supportive to happy to look the other way but pretend they don't - UKIP - Tories, Repuclicans, Fox News, Picanninies/Watermelon Smiles/letter boxes etcWe're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Pay rises and bonuses are not mutually exclusive.rick_chasey said:
Sure.TheBigBean said:
Not completely, if you look forward and don't want to keep a member of staff, you can pay a zero bonus even if it has been a great year. If you do want to keep them, you can pay a bigger bonus than the year impies.rick_chasey said:
Ya, markets were frothy last year.TheBigBean said:
Yes, although this all started off with a graph of actual bonuses paid and not promises to pay a bonus.
Not so, this year... eek.
Bonuses are backwards looking, remember. Wages forward looking.
Nonetheless, despite your fondness for offering bigger bonuses, there was a large scale out-of-cycle spate of base salary rises across the board in the middle of last yearTheBigBean said:
This was one of the reasons quite a few people e.g. Filipina nurses voted for Brexitbriantrumpet said:I guess this is a Brexit benefit: increased immigration.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/19/public-duped-long-term-visas-foreign-nationals-40pc-since-brexit/The number of foreign nationals granted visas to enter the UK long term has increased by 40 per cent since Brexit despite ministers’ pledges to take control of immigration, according to a new study.
The research, by the Migration Watch think tank, found that long-term visas granted to non-UK nationals last year totalled 830,000 – up from around 600,000 before Brexit.
Lower salary and skill thresholds for foreign workers, the widening classification of “shortage” jobs and the end of restrictions on students staying on to work after graduating have contributed to the surge.
While the number of EU nationals who now need visas has dwindled to around 50,000 from a peak of around 280,000 in 2015-16, the number of non-EU nationals coming to the UK to work, study, resettle or live with their families has risen sharply.
Some 210,000 – a quarter of the 830,000 granted – were work visas, up from the average of 160,000 per year for the period 2010 to 2020.TheBigBean said:
This was one of the reasons quite a few people e.g. Filipina nurses voted for Brexitbriantrumpet said:I guess this is a Brexit benefit: increased immigration.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/19/public-duped-long-term-visas-foreign-nationals-40pc-since-brexit/The number of foreign nationals granted visas to enter the UK long term has increased by 40 per cent since Brexit despite ministers’ pledges to take control of immigration, according to a new study.
The research, by the Migration Watch think tank, found that long-term visas granted to non-UK nationals last year totalled 830,000 – up from around 600,000 before Brexit.
Lower salary and skill thresholds for foreign workers, the widening classification of “shortage” jobs and the end of restrictions on students staying on to work after graduating have contributed to the surge.
While the number of EU nationals who now need visas has dwindled to around 50,000 from a peak of around 280,000 in 2015-16, the number of non-EU nationals coming to the UK to work, study, resettle or live with their families has risen sharply.
Some 210,000 – a quarter of the 830,000 granted – were work visas, up from the average of 160,000 per year for the period 2010 to 2020.
There must have been some industrial level stupidity involved too since non-EU immigration was nothing to do with eu membership.TheBigBean said:
This was one of the reasons quite a few people e.g. Filipina nurses voted for Brexitbriantrumpet said:I guess this is a Brexit benefit: increased immigration.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/19/public-duped-long-term-visas-foreign-nationals-40pc-since-brexit/The number of foreign nationals granted visas to enter the UK long term has increased by 40 per cent since Brexit despite ministers’ pledges to take control of immigration, according to a new study.
The research, by the Migration Watch think tank, found that long-term visas granted to non-UK nationals last year totalled 830,000 – up from around 600,000 before Brexit.
Lower salary and skill thresholds for foreign workers, the widening classification of “shortage” jobs and the end of restrictions on students staying on to work after graduating have contributed to the surge.
While the number of EU nationals who now need visas has dwindled to around 50,000 from a peak of around 280,000 in 2015-16, the number of non-EU nationals coming to the UK to work, study, resettle or live with their families has risen sharply.
Some 210,000 – a quarter of the 830,000 granted – were work visas, up from the average of 160,000 per year for the period 2010 to 2020.
0 -
Except it has increased post Brexit, so they were right. Doesn't that prove it was not a stupid view?wallace_and_gromit said:
Pay rises and bonuses are not mutually exclusive.rick_chasey said:
Sure.TheBigBean said:
Not completely, if you look forward and don't want to keep a member of staff, you can pay a zero bonus even if it has been a great year. If you do want to keep them, you can pay a bigger bonus than the year impies.rick_chasey said:
Ya, markets were frothy last year.TheBigBean said:
Yes, although this all started off with a graph of actual bonuses paid and not promises to pay a bonus.
Not so, this year... eek.
Bonuses are backwards looking, remember. Wages forward looking.
Nonetheless, despite your fondness for offering bigger bonuses, there was a large scale out-of-cycle spate of base salary rises across the board in the middle of last yearTheBigBean said:
This was one of the reasons quite a few people e.g. Filipina nurses voted for Brexitbriantrumpet said:I guess this is a Brexit benefit: increased immigration.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/19/public-duped-long-term-visas-foreign-nationals-40pc-since-brexit/The number of foreign nationals granted visas to enter the UK long term has increased by 40 per cent since Brexit despite ministers’ pledges to take control of immigration, according to a new study.
The research, by the Migration Watch think tank, found that long-term visas granted to non-UK nationals last year totalled 830,000 – up from around 600,000 before Brexit.
Lower salary and skill thresholds for foreign workers, the widening classification of “shortage” jobs and the end of restrictions on students staying on to work after graduating have contributed to the surge.
While the number of EU nationals who now need visas has dwindled to around 50,000 from a peak of around 280,000 in 2015-16, the number of non-EU nationals coming to the UK to work, study, resettle or live with their families has risen sharply.
Some 210,000 – a quarter of the 830,000 granted – were work visas, up from the average of 160,000 per year for the period 2010 to 2020.TheBigBean said:
This was one of the reasons quite a few people e.g. Filipina nurses voted for Brexitbriantrumpet said:I guess this is a Brexit benefit: increased immigration.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/19/public-duped-long-term-visas-foreign-nationals-40pc-since-brexit/The number of foreign nationals granted visas to enter the UK long term has increased by 40 per cent since Brexit despite ministers’ pledges to take control of immigration, according to a new study.
The research, by the Migration Watch think tank, found that long-term visas granted to non-UK nationals last year totalled 830,000 – up from around 600,000 before Brexit.
Lower salary and skill thresholds for foreign workers, the widening classification of “shortage” jobs and the end of restrictions on students staying on to work after graduating have contributed to the surge.
While the number of EU nationals who now need visas has dwindled to around 50,000 from a peak of around 280,000 in 2015-16, the number of non-EU nationals coming to the UK to work, study, resettle or live with their families has risen sharply.
Some 210,000 – a quarter of the 830,000 granted – were work visas, up from the average of 160,000 per year for the period 2010 to 2020.
There must have been some industrial level stupidity involved too since non-EU immigration was nothing to do with eu membership.TheBigBean said:
This was one of the reasons quite a few people e.g. Filipina nurses voted for Brexitbriantrumpet said:I guess this is a Brexit benefit: increased immigration.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/19/public-duped-long-term-visas-foreign-nationals-40pc-since-brexit/The number of foreign nationals granted visas to enter the UK long term has increased by 40 per cent since Brexit despite ministers’ pledges to take control of immigration, according to a new study.
The research, by the Migration Watch think tank, found that long-term visas granted to non-UK nationals last year totalled 830,000 – up from around 600,000 before Brexit.
Lower salary and skill thresholds for foreign workers, the widening classification of “shortage” jobs and the end of restrictions on students staying on to work after graduating have contributed to the surge.
While the number of EU nationals who now need visas has dwindled to around 50,000 from a peak of around 280,000 in 2015-16, the number of non-EU nationals coming to the UK to work, study, resettle or live with their families has risen sharply.
Some 210,000 – a quarter of the 830,000 granted – were work visas, up from the average of 160,000 per year for the period 2010 to 2020.
0 -
I admire your optimism but I would put the figure well over 52%ddraver said:morstar said:
I explicitly used IF as a qualifier.john80 said:I have to laugh at the old racist trope. For those making these claims what percentage of the population do they think are actually racist. I mean proper racist where they want to treat another race as inferior. Not just old people falling foul of the miss use of language.
I don't
10% of any country - fervant racists, zenophobes, nationalists - Ultras, Nazis, BNP, Blackshirts, Skinheads, MAGA, Charlotsville protesters, KKK, Gert Wilders/VVD- call them what you will...
20% on top of that - people who range from quietly supportive to happy to look the other way but pretend they don't - UKIP - Tories, Repuclicans, Fox News, Picanninies/Watermelon Smiles/letter boxes etc0 -
My mistake. I’ve just realised the point you’re making. Not the one I thought it was initially.🤦♂️TheBigBean said:
Except it has increased post Brexit, so they were right. Doesn't that prove it was not a stupid view?wallace_and_gromit said:
Pay rises and bonuses are not mutually exclusive.rick_chasey said:
Sure.TheBigBean said:
Not completely, if you look forward and don't want to keep a member of staff, you can pay a zero bonus even if it has been a great year. If you do want to keep them, you can pay a bigger bonus than the year impies.rick_chasey said:
Ya, markets were frothy last year.TheBigBean said:
Yes, although this all started off with a graph of actual bonuses paid and not promises to pay a bonus.
Not so, this year... eek.
Bonuses are backwards looking, remember. Wages forward looking.
Nonetheless, despite your fondness for offering bigger bonuses, there was a large scale out-of-cycle spate of base salary rises across the board in the middle of last yearTheBigBean said:
This was one of the reasons quite a few people e.g. Filipina nurses voted for Brexitbriantrumpet said:I guess this is a Brexit benefit: increased immigration.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/19/public-duped-long-term-visas-foreign-nationals-40pc-since-brexit/The number of foreign nationals granted visas to enter the UK long term has increased by 40 per cent since Brexit despite ministers’ pledges to take control of immigration, according to a new study.
The research, by the Migration Watch think tank, found that long-term visas granted to non-UK nationals last year totalled 830,000 – up from around 600,000 before Brexit.
Lower salary and skill thresholds for foreign workers, the widening classification of “shortage” jobs and the end of restrictions on students staying on to work after graduating have contributed to the surge.
While the number of EU nationals who now need visas has dwindled to around 50,000 from a peak of around 280,000 in 2015-16, the number of non-EU nationals coming to the UK to work, study, resettle or live with their families has risen sharply.
Some 210,000 – a quarter of the 830,000 granted – were work visas, up from the average of 160,000 per year for the period 2010 to 2020.TheBigBean said:
This was one of the reasons quite a few people e.g. Filipina nurses voted for Brexitbriantrumpet said:I guess this is a Brexit benefit: increased immigration.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/19/public-duped-long-term-visas-foreign-nationals-40pc-since-brexit/The number of foreign nationals granted visas to enter the UK long term has increased by 40 per cent since Brexit despite ministers’ pledges to take control of immigration, according to a new study.
The research, by the Migration Watch think tank, found that long-term visas granted to non-UK nationals last year totalled 830,000 – up from around 600,000 before Brexit.
Lower salary and skill thresholds for foreign workers, the widening classification of “shortage” jobs and the end of restrictions on students staying on to work after graduating have contributed to the surge.
While the number of EU nationals who now need visas has dwindled to around 50,000 from a peak of around 280,000 in 2015-16, the number of non-EU nationals coming to the UK to work, study, resettle or live with their families has risen sharply.
Some 210,000 – a quarter of the 830,000 granted – were work visas, up from the average of 160,000 per year for the period 2010 to 2020.
There must have been some industrial level stupidity involved too since non-EU immigration was nothing to do with eu membership.TheBigBean said:
This was one of the reasons quite a few people e.g. Filipina nurses voted for Brexitbriantrumpet said:I guess this is a Brexit benefit: increased immigration.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/19/public-duped-long-term-visas-foreign-nationals-40pc-since-brexit/The number of foreign nationals granted visas to enter the UK long term has increased by 40 per cent since Brexit despite ministers’ pledges to take control of immigration, according to a new study.
The research, by the Migration Watch think tank, found that long-term visas granted to non-UK nationals last year totalled 830,000 – up from around 600,000 before Brexit.
Lower salary and skill thresholds for foreign workers, the widening classification of “shortage” jobs and the end of restrictions on students staying on to work after graduating have contributed to the surge.
While the number of EU nationals who now need visas has dwindled to around 50,000 from a peak of around 280,000 in 2015-16, the number of non-EU nationals coming to the UK to work, study, resettle or live with their families has risen sharply.
Some 210,000 – a quarter of the 830,000 granted – were work visas, up from the average of 160,000 per year for the period 2010 to 2020.
0 -
Apparently a lot of them are given away by their bad spelling.ddraver said:morstar said:
I explicitly used IF as a qualifier.john80 said:I have to laugh at the old racist trope. For those making these claims what percentage of the population do they think are actually racist. I mean proper racist where they want to treat another race as inferior. Not just old people falling foul of the miss use of language.
I don't
10% of any country - fervant racists, zenophobes, nationalists - Ultras, Nazis, BNP, Blackshirts, Skinheads, MAGA, Charlotsville protesters, KKK, Gert Wilders/VVD- call them what you will...
20% on top of that - people who range from quietly supportive to happy to look the other way but pretend they don't - UKIP - Tories, Repuclicans, Fox News, Picanninies/Watermelon Smiles/letter boxes etc
I still chuckle at the leftiebollox assumption that anyone who doesn't tow the centre leftie line or votes tory etc must be racist in some shape or form."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I was being kind with the numbers...surrey_commuter said:
I admire your optimism but I would put the figure well over 52%ddraver said:morstar said:
I explicitly used IF as a qualifier.john80 said:I have to laugh at the old racist trope. For those making these claims what percentage of the population do they think are actually racist. I mean proper racist where they want to treat another race as inferior. Not just old people falling foul of the miss use of language.
I don't
10% of any country - fervant racists, zenophobes, nationalists - Ultras, Nazis, BNP, Blackshirts, Skinheads, MAGA, Charlotsville protesters, KKK, Gert Wilders/VVD- call them what you will...
20% on top of that - people who range from quietly supportive to happy to look the other way but pretend they don't - UKIP - Tories, Repuclicans, Fox News, Picanninies/Watermelon Smiles/letter boxes etc
We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Views or assumptions? No idea where you got those figures from, so feel free to back them up.ddraver said:So am I republican or leftie now?
So hard to keep up given that it has nothing to do with any of my actual views..."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
BNP must be running a bad business model as they seem to be missing a lot of subs from the 6 million people in the UK you claim are fervent rascists. Maybe we should discuss how the BNP are so bad at business.ddraver said:morstar said:
I explicitly used IF as a qualifier.john80 said:I have to laugh at the old racist trope. For those making these claims what percentage of the population do they think are actually racist. I mean proper racist where they want to treat another race as inferior. Not just old people falling foul of the miss use of language.
I don't
10% of any country - fervant racists, zenophobes, nationalists - Ultras, Nazis, BNP, Blackshirts, Skinheads, MAGA, Charlotsville protesters, KKK, Gert Wilders/VVD- call them what you will...
20% on top of that - people who range from quietly supportive to happy to look the other way but pretend they don't - UKIP - Tories, Repuclicans, Fox News, Picanninies/Watermelon Smiles/letter boxes etc0 -
I seem to remember when asked, between a quarter and a third consider themselves racist.john80 said:I have to laugh at the old racist trope. For those making these claims what percentage of the population do they think are actually racist. I mean proper racist where they want to treat another race as inferior. Not just old people falling foul of the miss use of language.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/british-people-admit-racially-prejudiced-white-black-asian-muslims-brexit-more-leave-voters-remain-survey-a7973751.html1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
How many of the 44% do you think would go out their way to be racist to others. If we are saying that not marrying someone who is a Muslim is a racism then you should be worried about all the BAME people that share the same view of white people.rjsterry said:
I seem to remember when asked, between a quarter and a third consider themselves racist.john80 said:I have to laugh at the old racist trope. For those making these claims what percentage of the population do they think are actually racist. I mean proper racist where they want to treat another race as inferior. Not just old people falling foul of the miss use of language.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/british-people-admit-racially-prejudiced-white-black-asian-muslims-brexit-more-leave-voters-remain-survey-a7973751.html0
