BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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Sure agreed.wallace_and_gromit said:rick_chasey said:
Promising bonuses is meaningless as they are contingent on so much stuff, a lot of it which is beyond people’s control - it does not retain people.
Ok. I see what you're saying now. You confused me by referring initially to "promising big bonuses" and then switching tack to bonus expectations which is obviously a different concept and where "political promises" come into play.rick_chasey said:
I don’t think you understand the dynamic I am describing, which is fine.wallace_and_gromit said:
Interesting. Perhaps you need to explain to your clients the concept of a "political promise". They're not just made by politicians and they're not worth the value of the paper they're not written on.rick_chasey said:
Hey guaranteed bonuses are that but there are often good reasons firms never pay as big a bonuses as verbally promised - loss somewhere else in the firm, tough margins, blah blah.wallace_and_gromit said:
Obviously. I was thinking that Rick would experience employers reneging on bonus commitments vicariously via his angry ex-clients getting in touch to tell him that he'd trousered a commission from a disreputable employer.Dorset_Boy said:
Rick don't get paid on the employee's bonus......wallace_and_gromit said:
You must place your clients with some fairly shonky employers if that is your experience!rick_chasey said:Promising big bonuses usually doesn’t work re retention as no one trusts firms - boy-who-cried-wolf syndrome
Always a good reason.
People aren’t stupid
But the key point is that there are a lot of good employers out there who honour their commitments and don't make "commitments" that they don't intend to honour (good quality staff tend to vote with their feet these days if an employers plays silly b*ggers) and it's unfortunate that you seem to have little or no experience of these.
I am not talking about promises made when hiring.
It is more bonuses are never as high as people expect.
Promising bonuses is meaningless as they are contingent on so much stuff, a lot of it which is beyond people’s control - it does not retain people.
I would think that broken actual promises re bonuses do affect retention by motivating those affected to leave sooner than they might otherwise have done!
But say you've had a stellar year, but there's been some big loss elsewhere in the business - tough sh!t - you won't get a good bonus.
Stuff like that happens *all the time*.0 -
Anyway,
Glad to see in the event of a huge economic squeeze incoming the UK is threatening a trade war with by far its biggest trading partner to satisfy a bunch of jumped up extremists in one party.0 -
The cynic in me suggests there will be a high correlation between a trusted trader and a Tory donor.0
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When you look at what Truss is demanding, it's completely insane that they signed up to the protocol.0
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In for a penny in for a pound etc.kingstongraham said:When you look at what Truss is demanding, it's completely insane that they signed up to the protocol.
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Yes, although this all started off with a graph of actual bonuses paid and not promises to pay a bonus.rick_chasey said:
Sure agreed.wallace_and_gromit said:rick_chasey said:
Promising bonuses is meaningless as they are contingent on so much stuff, a lot of it which is beyond people’s control - it does not retain people.
Ok. I see what you're saying now. You confused me by referring initially to "promising big bonuses" and then switching tack to bonus expectations which is obviously a different concept and where "political promises" come into play.rick_chasey said:
I don’t think you understand the dynamic I am describing, which is fine.wallace_and_gromit said:
Interesting. Perhaps you need to explain to your clients the concept of a "political promise". They're not just made by politicians and they're not worth the value of the paper they're not written on.rick_chasey said:
Hey guaranteed bonuses are that but there are often good reasons firms never pay as big a bonuses as verbally promised - loss somewhere else in the firm, tough margins, blah blah.wallace_and_gromit said:
Obviously. I was thinking that Rick would experience employers reneging on bonus commitments vicariously via his angry ex-clients getting in touch to tell him that he'd trousered a commission from a disreputable employer.Dorset_Boy said:
Rick don't get paid on the employee's bonus......wallace_and_gromit said:
You must place your clients with some fairly shonky employers if that is your experience!rick_chasey said:Promising big bonuses usually doesn’t work re retention as no one trusts firms - boy-who-cried-wolf syndrome
Always a good reason.
People aren’t stupid
But the key point is that there are a lot of good employers out there who honour their commitments and don't make "commitments" that they don't intend to honour (good quality staff tend to vote with their feet these days if an employers plays silly b*ggers) and it's unfortunate that you seem to have little or no experience of these.
I am not talking about promises made when hiring.
It is more bonuses are never as high as people expect.
Promising bonuses is meaningless as they are contingent on so much stuff, a lot of it which is beyond people’s control - it does not retain people.
I would think that broken actual promises re bonuses do affect retention by motivating those affected to leave sooner than they might otherwise have done!
But say you've had a stellar year, but there's been some big loss elsewhere in the business - tough sh!t - you won't get a good bonus.
Stuff like that happens *all the time*.0 -
Ya, markets were frothy last year.TheBigBean said:
Yes, although this all started off with a graph of actual bonuses paid and not promises to pay a bonus.
Not so, this year... eek.
Bonuses are backwards looking, remember. Wages forward looking.0 -
I mean, I don't think it's unreasonable to be able to send a parcel from one part of the UK to another without filling out a customs declaration.TheBigBean said:
In for a penny in for a pound etc.kingstongraham said:When you look at what Truss is demanding, it's completely insane that they signed up to the protocol.
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So who do you think is being unreasonable at the moment?kingstongraham said:
I mean, I don't think it's unreasonable to be able to send a parcel from one part of the UK to another without filling out a customs declaration.TheBigBean said:
In for a penny in for a pound etc.kingstongraham said:When you look at what Truss is demanding, it's completely insane that they signed up to the protocol.
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Not completely, if you look forward and don't want to keep a member of staff, you can pay a zero bonus even if it has been a great year. If you do want to keep them, you can pay a bigger bonus than the year impies.rick_chasey said:
Ya, markets were frothy last year.TheBigBean said:
Yes, although this all started off with a graph of actual bonuses paid and not promises to pay a bonus.
Not so, this year... eek.
Bonuses are backwards looking, remember. Wages forward looking.0 -
Anyone who thinks that you can leave the EU and keep part of your territory in the European single market without there being some elements that don't make sense on their own.TheBigBean said:
So who do you think is being unreasonable at the moment?kingstongraham said:
I mean, I don't think it's unreasonable to be able to send a parcel from one part of the UK to another without filling out a customs declaration.TheBigBean said:
In for a penny in for a pound etc.kingstongraham said:When you look at what Truss is demanding, it's completely insane that they signed up to the protocol.
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Sure.TheBigBean said:
Not completely, if you look forward and don't want to keep a member of staff, you can pay a zero bonus even if it has been a great year. If you do want to keep them, you can pay a bigger bonus than the year impies.rick_chasey said:
Ya, markets were frothy last year.TheBigBean said:
Yes, although this all started off with a graph of actual bonuses paid and not promises to pay a bonus.
Not so, this year... eek.
Bonuses are backwards looking, remember. Wages forward looking.
Nonetheless, despite your fondness for offering bigger bonuses, there was a large scale out-of-cycle spate of base salary rises across the board in the middle of last year
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It's a challenging concept.skyblueamateur said:
But the border between ROI and NI is porous I don't see how it's workable.wallace_and_gromit said:
I think that's where the "Trusted" part of the definition comes from. There would be a lot of work required to vet and accredit suitable traders for the scheme to work. But it's probably a "good" idea that will demonstrate the value of the old adage "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good".skyblueamateur said:The bit of the 'trusted trader' scheme we're proposing that confuses me is if I sell a product to a company in NI how do I know it's staying in NI and not being sold on into ROI or the EU?
I can fully understand why the EU doesn't think this is a goer.
I can fully understand why the EU wouldn't trust anything proposed by the UK given the insults and threats over the last few years.
It doesn't matter if it's sold in NI and then driven to Ireland by the final use customer (well...it does, but for most goods this is going to happen to, it doesn't). It does matter if it is taken to a warehouse and then redistributed for sale in Ireland (or anywhere outside of GB)We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
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Surely the old adage of "Don't count your chickens before they're hatched" applies. If one is daft enough to notionally trouser a bonus before the corporate results are finalised then one is likely to be disappointed.rick_chasey said:
Sure agreed.wallace_and_gromit said:rick_chasey said:
Promising bonuses is meaningless as they are contingent on so much stuff, a lot of it which is beyond people’s control - it does not retain people.
Ok. I see what you're saying now. You confused me by referring initially to "promising big bonuses" and then switching tack to bonus expectations which is obviously a different concept and where "political promises" come into play.rick_chasey said:
I don’t think you understand the dynamic I am describing, which is fine.wallace_and_gromit said:
Interesting. Perhaps you need to explain to your clients the concept of a "political promise". They're not just made by politicians and they're not worth the value of the paper they're not written on.rick_chasey said:
Hey guaranteed bonuses are that but there are often good reasons firms never pay as big a bonuses as verbally promised - loss somewhere else in the firm, tough margins, blah blah.wallace_and_gromit said:
Obviously. I was thinking that Rick would experience employers reneging on bonus commitments vicariously via his angry ex-clients getting in touch to tell him that he'd trousered a commission from a disreputable employer.Dorset_Boy said:
Rick don't get paid on the employee's bonus......wallace_and_gromit said:
You must place your clients with some fairly shonky employers if that is your experience!rick_chasey said:Promising big bonuses usually doesn’t work re retention as no one trusts firms - boy-who-cried-wolf syndrome
Always a good reason.
People aren’t stupid
But the key point is that there are a lot of good employers out there who honour their commitments and don't make "commitments" that they don't intend to honour (good quality staff tend to vote with their feet these days if an employers plays silly b*ggers) and it's unfortunate that you seem to have little or no experience of these.
I am not talking about promises made when hiring.
It is more bonuses are never as high as people expect.
Promising bonuses is meaningless as they are contingent on so much stuff, a lot of it which is beyond people’s control - it does not retain people.
I would think that broken actual promises re bonuses do affect retention by motivating those affected to leave sooner than they might otherwise have done!
But say you've had a stellar year, but there's been some big loss elsewhere in the business - tough sh!t - you won't get a good bonus.
Stuff like that happens *all the time*.
And if there's a big loss somewhere after "staff-retaining" pay rises have been granted then it's usually no picnic either. Though in this situation, the pain tends to be focused on the unlucky few who get "let go" rather than the masses forgoing some bonus.0 -
It would be workable in terms of stopping wholesale shipping of big-ticket items from GB to the EU via NI. But it wouldn't stop small scale "smuggling" which is hardly a threat to the Single Market. Ultimately the politicians have to decide whether they want to risk a return to violence - from whatever quarter - or flex a little for the greater good.skyblueamateur said:
But the border between ROI and NI is porous I don't see how it's workable.wallace_and_gromit said:
I think that's where the "Trusted" part of the definition comes from. There would be a lot of work required to vet and accredit suitable traders for the scheme to work. But it's probably a "good" idea that will demonstrate the value of the old adage "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good".skyblueamateur said:The bit of the 'trusted trader' scheme we're proposing that confuses me is if I sell a product to a company in NI how do I know it's staying in NI and not being sold on into ROI or the EU?
I can fully understand why the EU doesn't think this is a goer.
I can fully understand why the EU wouldn't trust anything proposed by the UK given the insults and threats over the last few years.0 -
I struggle to see the upside to this ongoing squabble at the behest of an extreme minority that supported this deal over all others.
It’s all about keeping anti eu rhetoric at the forefront of the political discourse.
The winners seem to be struggling with their victory.
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Have a read of the David Trimble article above. He know the GFA/BA reasonably well.morstar said:I struggle to see the upside to this ongoing squabble at the behest of an extreme minority that supported this deal over all others.
It’s all about keeping anti eu rhetoric at the forefront of the political discourse.
The winners seem to be struggling with their victory.0 -
Al Capone did not get convicted for violent acts. He got done for tax evasion. There is a lesson in there somewhere for the EU. Doubt they will get it though as there dream is fall all goods in Northern Ireland to come from the EU and nothing from the UK. They are a protectionist organisation after all.skyblueamateur said:The bit of the 'trusted trader' scheme we're proposing that confuses me is if I sell a product to a company in NI how do I know it's staying in NI and not being sold on into ROI or the EU?
I can fully understand why the EU doesn't think this is a goer.0 -
ddraver said:
It's a challenging concept.skyblueamateur said:
But the border between ROI and NI is porous I don't see how it's workable.wallace_and_gromit said:
I think that's where the "Trusted" part of the definition comes from. There would be a lot of work required to vet and accredit suitable traders for the scheme to work. But it's probably a "good" idea that will demonstrate the value of the old adage "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good".skyblueamateur said:The bit of the 'trusted trader' scheme we're proposing that confuses me is if I sell a product to a company in NI how do I know it's staying in NI and not being sold on into ROI or the EU?
I can fully understand why the EU doesn't think this is a goer.
I can fully understand why the EU wouldn't trust anything proposed by the UK given the insults and threats over the last few years.
It doesn't matter if it's sold in NI and then driven to Ireland by the final use customer (well...it does, but for most goods this is going to happen to, it doesn't). It does matter if it is taken to a warehouse and then redistributed for sale in Ireland (or anywhere outside of GB)
I don't get thisjohn80 said:
Al Capone did not get convicted for violent acts. He got done for tax evasion. There is a lesson in there somewhere for the EU. Doubt they will get it though as there dream is fall all goods in Northern Ireland to come from the EU and nothing from the UK. They are a protectionist organisation after all.skyblueamateur said:The bit of the 'trusted trader' scheme we're proposing that confuses me is if I sell a product to a company in NI how do I know it's staying in NI and not being sold on into ROI or the EU?
I can fully understand why the EU doesn't think this is a goer.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
A lot of sleight of hand going on in that articleTheBigBean said:
Have a read of the David Trimble article above. He know the GFA/BA reasonably well.morstar said:I struggle to see the upside to this ongoing squabble at the behest of an extreme minority that supported this deal over all others.
It’s all about keeping anti eu rhetoric at the forefront of the political discourse.
The winners seem to be struggling with their victory.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Which part of mine..?tailwindhome said:ddraver said:
It's a challenging concept.skyblueamateur said:
But the border between ROI and NI is porous I don't see how it's workable.wallace_and_gromit said:
I think that's where the "Trusted" part of the definition comes from. There would be a lot of work required to vet and accredit suitable traders for the scheme to work. But it's probably a "good" idea that will demonstrate the value of the old adage "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good".skyblueamateur said:The bit of the 'trusted trader' scheme we're proposing that confuses me is if I sell a product to a company in NI how do I know it's staying in NI and not being sold on into ROI or the EU?
I can fully understand why the EU doesn't think this is a goer.
I can fully understand why the EU wouldn't trust anything proposed by the UK given the insults and threats over the last few years.
It doesn't matter if it's sold in NI and then driven to Ireland by the final use customer (well...it does, but for most goods this is going to happen to, it doesn't). It does matter if it is taken to a warehouse and then redistributed for sale in Ireland (or anywhere outside of GB)
I don't get thisjohn80 said:
Al Capone did not get convicted for violent acts. He got done for tax evasion. There is a lesson in there somewhere for the EU. Doubt they will get it though as there dream is fall all goods in Northern Ireland to come from the EU and nothing from the UK. They are a protectionist organisation after all.skyblueamateur said:The bit of the 'trusted trader' scheme we're proposing that confuses me is if I sell a product to a company in NI how do I know it's staying in NI and not being sold on into ROI or the EU?
I can fully understand why the EU doesn't think this is a goer.
Been a while since my epic 6 months at TSS but I can try and remember...We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
A "cascade of export bans" of staple foodstuffs... are we really sure that relying to a very large degree on importing our most basic food needs is a great idea?
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/may/17/ukraine-farming-group-warns-of-cascade-of-export-bans-without-new-grain-routes0 -
The point I am trying to get at is regulation aimed at getting business to self comply is usually the best form of regulation. In the case of goods the paperwork trail is pretty good to capture non compliance. Criminals will always be criminals but all businesses want is a level playing field and governments want a high percentage of compliance.tailwindhome said:ddraver said:
It's a challenging concept.skyblueamateur said:
But the border between ROI and NI is porous I don't see how it's workable.wallace_and_gromit said:
I think that's where the "Trusted" part of the definition comes from. There would be a lot of work required to vet and accredit suitable traders for the scheme to work. But it's probably a "good" idea that will demonstrate the value of the old adage "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good".skyblueamateur said:The bit of the 'trusted trader' scheme we're proposing that confuses me is if I sell a product to a company in NI how do I know it's staying in NI and not being sold on into ROI or the EU?
I can fully understand why the EU doesn't think this is a goer.
I can fully understand why the EU wouldn't trust anything proposed by the UK given the insults and threats over the last few years.
It doesn't matter if it's sold in NI and then driven to Ireland by the final use customer (well...it does, but for most goods this is going to happen to, it doesn't). It does matter if it is taken to a warehouse and then redistributed for sale in Ireland (or anywhere outside of GB)
I don't get thisjohn80 said:
Al Capone did not get convicted for violent acts. He got done for tax evasion. There is a lesson in there somewhere for the EU. Doubt they will get it though as there dream is fall all goods in Northern Ireland to come from the EU and nothing from the UK. They are a protectionist organisation after all.skyblueamateur said:The bit of the 'trusted trader' scheme we're proposing that confuses me is if I sell a product to a company in NI how do I know it's staying in NI and not being sold on into ROI or the EU?
I can fully understand why the EU doesn't think this is a goer.0 -
Well, at least someone is prepared to admit that his Brexit vote was a mistake...
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Try and see the EU as a walled garden. By building a large wall (regulations, border controls and tarifs) the EU allows member states to operate as one single market. A seller in Paris can serve a customer in Madrid as easily as a seller in London can serve a customer in Manchester.john80 said:
The point I am trying to get at is regulation aimed at getting business to self comply is usually the best form of regulation. In the case of goods the paperwork trail is pretty good to capture non compliance. Criminals will always be criminals but all businesses want is a level playing field and governments want a high percentage of compliance.tailwindhome said:ddraver said:
It's a challenging concept.skyblueamateur said:
But the border between ROI and NI is porous I don't see how it's workable.wallace_and_gromit said:
I think that's where the "Trusted" part of the definition comes from. There would be a lot of work required to vet and accredit suitable traders for the scheme to work. But it's probably a "good" idea that will demonstrate the value of the old adage "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good".skyblueamateur said:The bit of the 'trusted trader' scheme we're proposing that confuses me is if I sell a product to a company in NI how do I know it's staying in NI and not being sold on into ROI or the EU?
I can fully understand why the EU doesn't think this is a goer.
I can fully understand why the EU wouldn't trust anything proposed by the UK given the insults and threats over the last few years.
It doesn't matter if it's sold in NI and then driven to Ireland by the final use customer (well...it does, but for most goods this is going to happen to, it doesn't). It does matter if it is taken to a warehouse and then redistributed for sale in Ireland (or anywhere outside of GB)
I don't get thisjohn80 said:
Al Capone did not get convicted for violent acts. He got done for tax evasion. There is a lesson in there somewhere for the EU. Doubt they will get it though as there dream is fall all goods in Northern Ireland to come from the EU and nothing from the UK. They are a protectionist organisation after all.skyblueamateur said:The bit of the 'trusted trader' scheme we're proposing that confuses me is if I sell a product to a company in NI how do I know it's staying in NI and not being sold on into ROI or the EU?
I can fully understand why the EU doesn't think this is a goer.
If you are outside the wall then this is no longer the case and you have to follow all of the rules that the EU stipulates.
They are not bullying the UK as that is the case for all non-EU members.
This is precisely what you voted for and I really think that you should own it0 -
would you also impose an export ban on UK farm produce?briantrumpet said:A "cascade of export bans" of staple foodstuffs... are we really sure that relying to a very large degree on importing our most basic food needs is a great idea?
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/may/17/ukraine-farming-group-warns-of-cascade-of-export-bans-without-new-grain-routes0 -
surrey_commuter said:
would you also impose an export ban on UK farm produce?briantrumpet said:A "cascade of export bans" of staple foodstuffs... are we really sure that relying to a very large degree on importing our most basic food needs is a great idea?
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/may/17/ukraine-farming-group-warns-of-cascade-of-export-bans-without-new-grain-routes
Not sure what that's got to do with my point. I'd not blame countries who protect the food supply for their own citizens.0 -
I don't believe we will starve as the UK is relatively rich and will be able to purchase food at the prevailing world market rate. If we grew it ourselves surely we would have to stop producers from selling it for the best price on the world market or we would be no better off?briantrumpet said:surrey_commuter said:
would you also impose an export ban on UK farm produce?briantrumpet said:A "cascade of export bans" of staple foodstuffs... are we really sure that relying to a very large degree on importing our most basic food needs is a great idea?
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/may/17/ukraine-farming-group-warns-of-cascade-of-export-bans-without-new-grain-routes
Not sure what that's got to do with my point. I'd not blame countries who protect the food supply for their own citizens.
Did I ever mention I have an allotment 0 -
Proof that you're a townie!surrey_commuter said:
I don't believe we will starve as the UK is relatively rich and will be able to purchase food at the prevailing world market rate. If we grew it ourselves surely we would have to stop producers from selling it for the best price on the world market or we would be no better off?briantrumpet said:surrey_commuter said:
would you also impose an export ban on UK farm produce?briantrumpet said:A "cascade of export bans" of staple foodstuffs... are we really sure that relying to a very large degree on importing our most basic food needs is a great idea?
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/may/17/ukraine-farming-group-warns-of-cascade-of-export-bans-without-new-grain-routes
Not sure what that's got to do with my point. I'd not blame countries who protect the food supply for their own citizens.
Did I ever mention I have an allotment
Country folk have a garden big enough to not need an allotment!
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