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BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

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  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 22,340
    edited December 2021
    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo would be crowing like mad if it wasn’t all iterations of bad news

    Not really, it makes no difference to me and to most people apart from a small hard-core who can't let it go.
    Great. Lucky you. It's a pain in *rse for my industry. Nothing insurmountable: just that everything takes longer and costs more.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 49,382
    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo would be crowing like mad if it wasn’t all iterations of bad news

    Not really, it makes no difference to me and to most people apart from a small hard-core who can't let it go.
    Great. Lucky you. It's a pain in *rse for my industry. Nothing insurmountable: just that everything takes longer and costs more.
    As I mentioned above...

    Anyway, its done now and I'm not clear how interminable moaning will help?
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 22,340
    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo would be crowing like mad if it wasn’t all iterations of bad news

    Not really, it makes no difference to me and to most people apart from a small hard-core who can't let it go.
    Great. Lucky you. It's a pain in *rse for my industry. Nothing insurmountable: just that everything takes longer and costs more.
    As I mentioned above...

    Anyway, its done now and I'm not clear how interminable moaning will help?
    It's started. It's not done. As I say, the effects are a bit more present for some of us than others. It's great that you are able to forget about it.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo would be crowing like mad if it wasn’t all iterations of bad news

    Not really, it makes no difference to me and to most people apart from a small hard-core who can't let it go.
    Great. Lucky you. It's a pain in *rse for my industry. Nothing insurmountable: just that everything takes longer and costs more.
    As I mentioned above...

    Anyway, its done now and I'm not clear how interminable moaning will help?
    Helps remember when next voting for government?
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 61,012 Lives Here
    edited December 2021
    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo would be crowing like mad if it wasn’t all iterations of bad news

    Not really, it makes no difference to me and to most people apart from a small hard-core who can't let it go.
    Great. Lucky you. It's a pain in *rse for my industry. Nothing insurmountable: just that everything takes longer and costs more.
    As I mentioned above...

    Anyway, its done now and I'm not clear how interminable moaning will help?
    Given all your chat beforehand about the deal etc I refuse to believe you are not interested in the reality of the deal they you were so keen to discuss for 4 years.

    I stand by the fact if the UK was massively outperforming everyone else and people were pointing to Brexit as why, you’d be much more vocal.

    Unfortunately the reality is not that so rather than admit it you try to either diminish the cost (more expensive than rona fwiw) or say “it’s over” in order to avoid the reality.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 19,160
    Playbook.
    1. In advance - It'll be great/you can't compare parallel universes.
    2. Current - It's too early to tell/you can't compare parallel universes.
    3. After the fact - It's over, move on/you can't compare parallel universes.
    4. Never, ever, criticise the tories.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 17,384
    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo would be crowing like mad if it wasn’t all iterations of bad news

    Not really, it makes no difference to me and to most people apart from a small hard-core who can't let it go.
    Great. Lucky you. It's a pain in *rse for my industry. Nothing insurmountable: just that everything takes longer and costs more.
    As I mentioned above...

    Anyway, its done now and I'm not clear how interminable moaning will help?
    A strong message for Lord Frost there
    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo would be crowing like mad if it wasn’t all iterations of bad news

    Not really, it makes no difference to me and to most people apart from a small hard-core who can't let it go.
    Great. Lucky you. It's a pain in *rse for my industry. Nothing insurmountable: just that everything takes longer and costs more.
    As I mentioned above...

    Anyway, its done now and I'm not clear how interminable moaning will help?
    A strong message for Lord Frost there
    Yep, it’s all done. Frost, the Brexiteers and the DUP should just suck it up, get on with things and stop moaning. Why are they even discussing it? It’s done.
  • longylongy Posts: 74
    The only time we can really judge whether Brexit was a success or a failure is still a long way off.

    This is like calling a Covid vaccine a failure as you have a sore arm the day after getting it.

    I voted against it and have seen nothing that makes me think that was the wrong call but ... it's way too early to call yet.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 61,012 Lives Here
    longy said:

    The only time we can really judge whether Brexit was a success or a failure is still a long way off.

    This is like calling a Covid vaccine a failure as you have a sore arm the day after getting it.

    I voted against it and have seen nothing that makes me think that was the wrong call but ... it's way too early to call yet.

    Can you point to what could realistically make it a success long term?
  • longylongy Posts: 74

    longy said:

    The only time we can really judge whether Brexit was a success or a failure is still a long way off.

    This is like calling a Covid vaccine a failure as you have a sore arm the day after getting it.

    I voted against it and have seen nothing that makes me think that was the wrong call but ... it's way too early to call yet.

    Can you point to what could realistically make it a success long term?

    No. I'll leave that to the historians and economists to decide.
  • longy said:

    longy said:

    The only time we can really judge whether Brexit was a success or a failure is still a long way off.

    This is like calling a Covid vaccine a failure as you have a sore arm the day after getting it.

    I voted against it and have seen nothing that makes me think that was the wrong call but ... it's way too early to call yet.

    Can you point to what could realistically make it a success long term?

    No. I'll leave that to the historians and economists to decide.
    As somebody who understands economics can I say that it is as likely to be a success as a team entering the TdF with a tactic of not riding in the peloton.

    See UK economy in 2015/16 as akin to the team weakening as talent and sponsors get nervous. Now we are a couple of stages in and riding as a team TTT has not been a success. Now assuming you follow road cycling can you see any reason why Team UK will close the gap and start powering ahead of the peloton? If a chap in the pub who loves their Union Jack kit told you it was too early to say if the tactic was a success would you agree with him?
  • longy said:

    The only time we can really judge whether Brexit was a success or a failure is still a long way off.

    This is like calling a Covid vaccine a failure as you have a sore arm the day after getting it.

    I voted against it and have seen nothing that makes me think that was the wrong call but ... it's way too early to call yet.

    Can you point to what could realistically make it a success long term?
    Perspective.

    If (for example), it helps in some way to precipitate the collapse of the EU , I would say that was a negative but not everybody would.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 61,012 Lives Here
    edited December 2021
    longy said:

    longy said:

    The only time we can really judge whether Brexit was a success or a failure is still a long way off.

    This is like calling a Covid vaccine a failure as you have a sore arm the day after getting it.

    I voted against it and have seen nothing that makes me think that was the wrong call but ... it's way too early to call yet.

    Can you point to what could realistically make it a success long term?

    No. I'll leave that to the historians and economists to decide.
    Right.

    Then I am confused by your analogy. In your covid analogy, we know the vaccine is worth getting despite the sore arm, because, although we can't predict the future, we have a pretty good idea of how immunisation works, so we can say with some cofindence the jab will likely really help, right?

    Because economics is also political and it encompasses the infamously unpredictable human behaviour and has things like financial crashes, people think it is not predictable, but there are things that are very predictable, and the stuff that is covered by Brexit *is* quite predictable.

    Things like the Gravity Model of Trade

    So if those things say Brexit is unlikely to be really beneficial, then there must be other things that must have some chance of being beneficial that we know about?

    Just saying "not enough information, cannot make a comment" is not really appropriate when timely decisions are important. You can't be a good leader or governor by always waiting for perfect data. Corona is a great example of how making informed decisions on limited information in a timely matter can be really advantageous.
  • longylongy Posts: 74

    longy said:

    longy said:

    The only time we can really judge whether Brexit was a success or a failure is still a long way off.

    This is like calling a Covid vaccine a failure as you have a sore arm the day after getting it.

    I voted against it and have seen nothing that makes me think that was the wrong call but ... it's way too early to call yet.

    Can you point to what could realistically make it a success long term?

    No. I'll leave that to the historians and economists to decide.
    Right.

    Then I am confused by your analogy. In your covid analogy, we know the vaccine is worth getting despite the sore arm, because, although we can't predict the future, we have a pretty good idea of how immunisation works, so we can say with some cofindence the jab will likely really help, right?

    Because economics is also political and it encompasses the infamously unpredictable human behaviour and has things like financial crashes, people think it is not predictable, but there are things that are very predictable, and the stuff that is covered by Brexit *is* quite predictable.

    Things like the Gravity Model of Trade

    So if those things say Brexit is unlikely to be really beneficial, then there must be other things that must have some chance of being beneficial that we know about?

    Just saying "not enough information, cannot make a comment" is not really appropriate when timely decisions are important. You can't be a good leader or governor by always waiting for perfect data. Corona is a great example of how making informed decisions on limited information in a timely matter can be really advantageous.

    My original comment stands. You're welcome to debate the subject ad nauseum in the meantime.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 61,012 Lives Here
    How does it stand? I've explained why it's a nonsense argument.
  • longylongy Posts: 74

    How does it stand? I've explained why it's a nonsense argument.

    Good for you. I disagree.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 61,012 Lives Here
    longy said:

    How does it stand? I've explained why it's a nonsense argument.

    Good for you. I disagree.
    On what basis?
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 16,208

    Brexit is done. If it helps the more compartmentalising tendencies of some posters, think of this thread as a discussion of our ongoing relationship with the EU, which changes again on 1st Jan.

    That seems like something sensible to discuss. Not sure if it accounts for the majority of the discussion though.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 61,012 Lives Here

    Brexit is done. If it helps the more compartmentalising tendencies of some posters, think of this thread as a discussion of our ongoing relationship with the EU, which changes again on 1st Jan.

    That seems like something sensible to discuss. Not sure if it accounts for the majority of the discussion though.
    Of course it is. How isn't it?
  • Brexit is done. If it helps the more compartmentalising tendencies of some posters, think of this thread as a discussion of our ongoing relationship with the EU, which changes again on 1st Jan.

    That seems like something sensible to discuss. Not sure if it accounts for the majority of the discussion though.
    Not at the moment, it's all people complaining about the existence of the thread.

  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 16,208

    Brexit is done. If it helps the more compartmentalising tendencies of some posters, think of this thread as a discussion of our ongoing relationship with the EU, which changes again on 1st Jan.

    That seems like something sensible to discuss. Not sure if it accounts for the majority of the discussion though.
    Not at the moment, it's all people complaining about the existence of the thread.

    I don't really agree, but I'm happy to join in some relevant discussion.

    Isn't it good that the UK will be able to keep using summer time?
  • Brexit is done. If it helps the more compartmentalising tendencies of some posters, think of this thread as a discussion of our ongoing relationship with the EU, which changes again on 1st Jan.

    That seems like something sensible to discuss. Not sure if it accounts for the majority of the discussion though.
    Not at the moment, it's all people complaining about the existence of the thread.

    I don't really agree, but I'm happy to join in some relevant discussion.

    Isn't it good that the UK will be able to keep using summer time?
    All year?
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 16,208

    Brexit is done. If it helps the more compartmentalising tendencies of some posters, think of this thread as a discussion of our ongoing relationship with the EU, which changes again on 1st Jan.

    That seems like something sensible to discuss. Not sure if it accounts for the majority of the discussion though.
    Not at the moment, it's all people complaining about the existence of the thread.

    I don't really agree, but I'm happy to join in some relevant discussion.

    Isn't it good that the UK will be able to keep using summer time?
    All year?
    As it likes, so just in the summer. Wild stuff.
  • longylongy Posts: 74

    longy said:

    How does it stand? I've explained why it's a nonsense argument.

    Good for you. I disagree.
    On what basis?
    On the basis I first mentioned. We have not yet seen all of the consequences of Brexit so are unable to make an overall judgement.
  • Brexit is done. If it helps the more compartmentalising tendencies of some posters, think of this thread as a discussion of our ongoing relationship with the EU, which changes again on 1st Jan.

    That seems like something sensible to discuss. Not sure if it accounts for the majority of the discussion though.
    Not at the moment, it's all people complaining about the existence of the thread.

    I don't really agree, but I'm happy to join in some relevant discussion.

    Isn't it good that the UK will be able to keep using summer time?
    All year?
    As it likes, so just in the summer. Wild stuff.
    No then. I don't see that as an advantage.
  • Brexit is done. If it helps the more compartmentalising tendencies of some posters, think of this thread as a discussion of our ongoing relationship with the EU, which changes again on 1st Jan.

    That seems like something sensible to discuss. Not sure if it accounts for the majority of the discussion though.
    Not at the moment, it's all people complaining about the existence of the thread.

    I don't really agree, but I'm happy to join in some relevant discussion.

    Isn't it good that the UK will be able to keep using summer time?
    All year?
    As it likes, so just in the summer. Wild stuff.
    No then. I don't see that as an advantage.
    If it means that we are on the same time as Europe for 6 months of the year then that is a good thing
  • pangolinpangolin Posts: 4,509
    longy said:

    longy said:

    How does it stand? I've explained why it's a nonsense argument.

    Good for you. I disagree.
    On what basis?
    On the basis I first mentioned. We have not yet seen all of the consequences of Brexit so are unable to make an overall judgement.
    Any thoughts on what decade it will be when we can definitively say we have seen all of the consequences of Brexit?
    Genesis Croix de Fer
    Cube Attain
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 49,382

    Brexit is done. If it helps the more compartmentalising tendencies of some posters, think of this thread as a discussion of our ongoing relationship with the EU, which changes again on 1st Jan.

    That seems like something sensible to discuss. Not sure if it accounts for the majority of the discussion though.
    Maybe a new thread is needed.

    Most of the discussion here is along the lines of 'we think its bad and we should either never have left, or should rejoin'. Which is a bit pointless as one is impossible without time travel and the possibility of the other is so far in the future we may as well get on with other more relevant things.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 49,382

    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo would be crowing like mad if it wasn’t all iterations of bad news

    Not really, it makes no difference to me and to most people apart from a small hard-core who can't let it go.
    Great. Lucky you. It's a pain in *rse for my industry. Nothing insurmountable: just that everything takes longer and costs more.
    As I mentioned above...

    Anyway, its done now and I'm not clear how interminable moaning will help?
    Given all your chat beforehand about the deal etc I refuse to believe you are not interested in the reality of the deal they you were so keen to discuss for 4 years.

    I stand by the fact if the UK was massively outperforming everyone else and people were pointing to Brexit as why, you’d be much more vocal.

    Unfortunately the reality is not that so rather than admit it you try to either diminish the cost (more expensive than rona fwiw) or say “it’s over” in order to avoid the reality.
    See my post above.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
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