BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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I'd say that using it as a stepping stone sounded a good idea, and with what we know now, I'd definitely say yes. I'd go further and say that now I'd say it would have been a good idea to join with no long term ambition to leave the SM, and only to leave if circumstances made it intolerable to be in without any way to affect the rules.
This is different to before we left, when I thought there was no way we could ever just take the rules. I now think it could have been more nuanced.0 -
I think we've messed it up royally now so the conditions of joining probably would make it very difficult.0
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kingstongraham said:
I think we've messed it up royally now so the conditions of joining probably would make it very difficult.
Indeed. I suspect that there would be great reluctance on the EU's part, and they'd want to know what we'd be bringing to the party, and whether we'd be pulling doors off hinges and vomiting on the carpet. Again.
Still, there's no harm in having aspirations while you try to get rid of the smell of the vomit.0 -
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I don't think it would have been right move in hindsight.kingstongraham said:I'd say that using it as a stepping stone sounded a good idea, and with what we know now, I'd definitely say yes. I'd go further and say that now I'd say it would have been a good idea to join with no long term ambition to leave the SM, and only to leave if circumstances made it intolerable to be in without any way to affect the rules.
This is different to before we left, when I thought there was no way we could ever just take the rules. I now think it could have been more nuanced.
Firstly, if there was an intent to use it as a stepping stone, then nothing would have been agreed about the next step until the last minute, so it would have meant years of limbo.
Secondly, if it had been used as a final destination, then I think the EU would have expected budgetary contributions as well as far more fish than Norway and Iceland enjoy. When combined with the rule taking and the likely very free movement of people, I think it would have been seen as BRINO, and rejected by the electorate. Whilst some people may be happy to potentially deceive the electorate, I think it would have damaged the country for a number of years and would have been far worse than the current situation.0 -
Sorry how is staying part of SM and CU deceiving the electorate?
It was the premise of the entire referendum.0 -
I'm not going on that merry-go-round.rick_chasey said:Sorry how is staying part of SM and CU deceiving the electorate?
It was the premise of the entire referendum.
As I said, your opinion is unchanged.0 -
No I mean it. You cannot say that staying in SM and CU is deceiving the electorate.
That is utter nonsense, and is incendiary given what has actually happened.
That’s not opinion, that’s fact.0 -
I think he means the things we'd have to give away (free movement etc) to stay in SM and CU would lead to people feeling deceived.
It's an issue of things being overpromised by leave.- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
You are forgetting for many "out means out" and they have zero interest in the economy. A blue passport maybe but not the economy.rick_chasey said:No I mean it. You cannot say that staying in SM and CU is deceiving the electorate.
That is utter nonsense, and is incendiary given what has actually happened.
That’s not opinion, that’s fact.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
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I mean, you're agreeing with me...rick_chasey said:pangolin said:I think he means the things we'd have to give away (free movement etc) to stay in SM and CU would lead to people feeling deceived.
It's an issue of things being overpromised by leave.
Leave were not promising this- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
Nah they weren’t “overpromising” they talked about not leaving the SM, saying UK would be like Norway and the discussion was around “rule taking” from Brussels.
Go check out the thread.0 -
You don't think leave were unrealistic about the deal we'd end up with? Intentionally or otherwise.rick_chasey said:Nah they weren’t “overpromising” they talked about not leaving the SM, saying UK would be like Norway and the discussion was around “rule taking” from Brussels.
Go check out the thread.- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
Nah. I think over time the revolutionaries took hold and followed the usual revolutionary pattern of things never being pure enough.0
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What do they put in the water in North East Somerset?briantrumpet said:Everything's fine. Rees-Smug has spoken.
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Jezyboy said:
What do they put in the water in North East Somerset?briantrumpet said:Everything's fine. Rees-Smug has spoken.
Sheep p1ss.0 -
Most have realised the pointlessness of it as the remainers when held to their short term forecasts mainly got it wrong albeit by over egging the pudding but have yet to admit it.rick_chasey said:The Brexit debate was quite fun but it's more fun now we have some actual evidence, as before it was theoretical and now it's not. Only, I feel like since Jan 2020 one side of the forum has given up the fight, which is a shame.
I have endless capacity for disagreement as you well know, but genuinely the exercise of having to prove your case I found really helped my understanding of what it actually was that mattered and didn't.0 -
But the forecasts were accurate?
I posted those 2019 charts from Chris Giles that showed they were bang on.0 -
Sometimes I feel I'm doing people a service whem I tell them to stop wasting their time. But if you can't see that, I'll leave your and the other unreconciled remainers to your little self help groupbriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Courtesy of an exchange with Mr Trumpet last year:surrey_commuter said:
Ifeel like I am walking into a trap but could you give examples in the last 6 months or name the RejoinersStevo_666 said:
Wrong. Others have mentioned it in the past.surrey_commuter said:
The only person in this thread who mentions rejoining is youStevo_666 said:
Maybe a new thread is needed.TheBigBean said:
That seems like something sensible to discuss. Not sure if it accounts for the majority of the discussion though.kingstongraham said:Brexit is done. If it helps the more compartmentalising tendencies of some posters, think of this thread as a discussion of our ongoing relationship with the EU, which changes again on 1st Jan.
Most of the discussion here is along the lines of 'we think its bad and we should either never have left, or should rejoin'. Which is a bit pointless as one is impossible without time travel and the possibility of the other is so far in the future we may as well get on with other more relevant things.
Stevo_666 said:
Show previous quotes
Let it go loon, the fight is over
Why? The Brexit people haven't stopped whingeing virtually since the day we joined the EEC. Paid off in the end, didn't it? (Well, maybe not in the economic sense, but hey, what does that matter?) You'd best get used to 40 years of Brejoin.
I can't see that that's a ridiculous aspiration, even if I think it extremely unlikely. In the meantime, as RC says, finding a way back into the Single Market and Customs Union (which the Brexiters told us it would be silly to leave) would be a more practical project, even if it takes a long time.
I've no idea why you keep on coming in the thread if you find it boring. I'm sure you can keep yourself amused elsewhere. But if you want to keep on coming back and saying it's boring, it'll make sure the thread keeps going.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
OK. See you next month 😘Stevo_666 said:
Sometimes I feel I'm doing people a service whem I tell them to stop wasting their time. But if you can't see that, I'll leave your and the other unreconciled remainers to your little self help groupbriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Courtesy of an exchange with Mr Trumpet last year:surrey_commuter said:
Ifeel like I am walking into a trap but could you give examples in the last 6 months or name the RejoinersStevo_666 said:
Wrong. Others have mentioned it in the past.surrey_commuter said:
The only person in this thread who mentions rejoining is youStevo_666 said:
Maybe a new thread is needed.TheBigBean said:
That seems like something sensible to discuss. Not sure if it accounts for the majority of the discussion though.kingstongraham said:Brexit is done. If it helps the more compartmentalising tendencies of some posters, think of this thread as a discussion of our ongoing relationship with the EU, which changes again on 1st Jan.
Most of the discussion here is along the lines of 'we think its bad and we should either never have left, or should rejoin'. Which is a bit pointless as one is impossible without time travel and the possibility of the other is so far in the future we may as well get on with other more relevant things.
Stevo_666 said:
Show previous quotes
Let it go loon, the fight is over
Why? The Brexit people haven't stopped whingeing virtually since the day we joined the EEC. Paid off in the end, didn't it? (Well, maybe not in the economic sense, but hey, what does that matter?) You'd best get used to 40 years of Brejoin.
I can't see that that's a ridiculous aspiration, even if I think it extremely unlikely. In the meantime, as RC says, finding a way back into the Single Market and Customs Union (which the Brexiters told us it would be silly to leave) would be a more practical project, even if it takes a long time.
I've no idea why you keep on coming in the thread if you find it boring. I'm sure you can keep yourself amused elsewhere. But if you want to keep on coming back and saying it's boring, it'll make sure the thread keeps going.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition1 -
He's right. Literally everyone said we wouldn't leave them.TheBigBean said:
I'm not going on that merry-go-round.rick_chasey said:Sorry how is staying part of SM and CU deceiving the electorate?
It was the premise of the entire referendum.
As I said, your opinion is unchanged.0 -
Thinking of going on the cars thread to say how boring driving is.0
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kingstongraham said:
Thinking of going on the cars thread to say how boring driving is.
It is. It's why I started the thread 0 -
I see what you did there. Still not joining the merry go round.kingstongraham said:
He's right. Literally everyone said we wouldn't leave them.TheBigBean said:
I'm not going on that merry-go-round.rick_chasey said:Sorry how is staying part of SM and CU deceiving the electorate?
It was the premise of the entire referendum.
As I said, your opinion is unchanged.0 -
Well if you're still moaning and whinging then, you might need another reminderrjsterry said:
OK. See you next month 😘Stevo_666 said:
Sometimes I feel I'm doing people a service whem I tell them to stop wasting their time. But if you can't see that, I'll leave your and the other unreconciled remainers to your little self help groupbriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Courtesy of an exchange with Mr Trumpet last year:surrey_commuter said:
Ifeel like I am walking into a trap but could you give examples in the last 6 months or name the RejoinersStevo_666 said:
Wrong. Others have mentioned it in the past.surrey_commuter said:
The only person in this thread who mentions rejoining is youStevo_666 said:
Maybe a new thread is needed.TheBigBean said:
That seems like something sensible to discuss. Not sure if it accounts for the majority of the discussion though.kingstongraham said:Brexit is done. If it helps the more compartmentalising tendencies of some posters, think of this thread as a discussion of our ongoing relationship with the EU, which changes again on 1st Jan.
Most of the discussion here is along the lines of 'we think its bad and we should either never have left, or should rejoin'. Which is a bit pointless as one is impossible without time travel and the possibility of the other is so far in the future we may as well get on with other more relevant things.
Stevo_666 said:
Show previous quotes
Let it go loon, the fight is over
Why? The Brexit people haven't stopped whingeing virtually since the day we joined the EEC. Paid off in the end, didn't it? (Well, maybe not in the economic sense, but hey, what does that matter?) You'd best get used to 40 years of Brejoin.
I can't see that that's a ridiculous aspiration, even if I think it extremely unlikely. In the meantime, as RC says, finding a way back into the Single Market and Customs Union (which the Brexiters told us it would be silly to leave) would be a more practical project, even if it takes a long time.
I've no idea why you keep on coming in the thread if you find it boring. I'm sure you can keep yourself amused elsewhere. But if you want to keep on coming back and saying it's boring, it'll make sure the thread keeps going.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I remember feeling like I was swimming against the tide before the vote saying that if we left the EU we wouldn't stay in the sm.TheBigBean said:
I see what you did there. Still not joining the merry go round.kingstongraham said:
He's right. Literally everyone said we wouldn't leave them.TheBigBean said:
I'm not going on that merry-go-round.rick_chasey said:Sorry how is staying part of SM and CU deceiving the electorate?
It was the premise of the entire referendum.
As I said, your opinion is unchanged.0 -
Back so soon?Stevo_666 said:
Well if you're still moaning and whinging then, you might need another reminderrjsterry said:
OK. See you next month 😘Stevo_666 said:
Sometimes I feel I'm doing people a service whem I tell them to stop wasting their time. But if you can't see that, I'll leave your and the other unreconciled remainers to your little self help groupbriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Courtesy of an exchange with Mr Trumpet last year:surrey_commuter said:
Ifeel like I am walking into a trap but could you give examples in the last 6 months or name the RejoinersStevo_666 said:
Wrong. Others have mentioned it in the past.surrey_commuter said:
The only person in this thread who mentions rejoining is youStevo_666 said:
Maybe a new thread is needed.TheBigBean said:
That seems like something sensible to discuss. Not sure if it accounts for the majority of the discussion though.kingstongraham said:Brexit is done. If it helps the more compartmentalising tendencies of some posters, think of this thread as a discussion of our ongoing relationship with the EU, which changes again on 1st Jan.
Most of the discussion here is along the lines of 'we think its bad and we should either never have left, or should rejoin'. Which is a bit pointless as one is impossible without time travel and the possibility of the other is so far in the future we may as well get on with other more relevant things.
Stevo_666 said:
Show previous quotes
Let it go loon, the fight is over
Why? The Brexit people haven't stopped whingeing virtually since the day we joined the EEC. Paid off in the end, didn't it? (Well, maybe not in the economic sense, but hey, what does that matter?) You'd best get used to 40 years of Brejoin.
I can't see that that's a ridiculous aspiration, even if I think it extremely unlikely. In the meantime, as RC says, finding a way back into the Single Market and Customs Union (which the Brexiters told us it would be silly to leave) would be a more practical project, even if it takes a long time.
I've no idea why you keep on coming in the thread if you find it boring. I'm sure you can keep yourself amused elsewhere. But if you want to keep on coming back and saying it's boring, it'll make sure the thread keeps going.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
You were as the entire ref discourse was Norway etc.kingstongraham said:
I remember feeling like I was swimming against the tide before the vote saying that if we left the EU we wouldn't stay in the sm.TheBigBean said:
I see what you did there. Still not joining the merry go round.kingstongraham said:
He's right. Literally everyone said we wouldn't leave them.TheBigBean said:
I'm not going on that merry-go-round.rick_chasey said:Sorry how is staying part of SM and CU deceiving the electorate?
It was the premise of the entire referendum.
As I said, your opinion is unchanged.
Go watch the old question times and the debates. Seriously.0 -
You may have been swimming against the tide but you weren't alone.kingstongraham said:
I remember feeling like I was swimming against the tide before the vote saying that if we left the EU we wouldn't stay in the sm.TheBigBean said:
I see what you did there. Still not joining the merry go round.kingstongraham said:
He's right. Literally everyone said we wouldn't leave them.TheBigBean said:
I'm not going on that merry-go-round.rick_chasey said:Sorry how is staying part of SM and CU deceiving the electorate?
It was the premise of the entire referendum.
As I said, your opinion is unchanged.
One of my posts from March 2017.pblakeney said:
"Burnaston made about 180,000 vehicles last year, most of which are exported to Europe and other markets.
Johan van Zyl, chief executive of Toyota Motor Europe, said the investment showed that the company was doing all it could to make Burnaston more competitive.
However, he warned: "Continued tariff-and-barrier free market access between the UK and Europe that is predictable and uncomplicated will be vital for future success."
Only if you are optimistic about the trade deals.
Which Westminster haven't even bothered to think about yet. Two years?
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0
