BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
-
rick_chasey said:
The issue as has been explained many times is that Brexit has reduced the Uk economy’s ability to adjust to supply chain issues.
Also, the specific issues around lorry drivers and abattoirs are relating to labour shortages that are mainly driven by Brexit, because their workforces previously made use of EU27 flexible labour.
That is why the Uk ended up panic buying petrol whereas Germany et al, who also have lorry driver problems, aren’t having a run on forecourts and aren’t chucking perfectly edible dead pigs onto the furnaces.
It's a UK pattern of behaviour: excess capacity and resilience has been viewed as an unnecessary cost. Once you've pared everything right back, the slightest disruption have consequences apparently out of proportion to the disruption. I suspect that the success of the EU in masking the UK's lack of resilience in other aspects (such as the closing of the gas storage facility) was ignored, as it had worked for so long, and the hard Brexit which was not on the cards till the final countdown has exposed the fragility in the face of a not-totally-unforeseen pandemic (it was more a question of when, not if).
Retrospect, as our farm vet once said, is a bügger. The only trouble is that there were several voices, let's call it 'Project Fear', for want of a better name, with the foresight to suggest that Brexit might have downsides.
@rick_chasey - this is the history book I had in mind, re the chimera of autarky - it was a much more interesting read than I anticipated https://www.amazon.co.uk/Upland-Communities-Environment-Population-Structure/dp/05213066391 -
Yes, they get rendered and then used in other things including pet food.rjsterry said:
Only meat fit for human consumption is used in pet food. We actually learnt something from BSE. This is unlikely to be the case if pigs are culled on a farm by the knacker man. They will not be butchered (there being too few butchers) so will be unfit for consumption and far more likely to be rendered into byproducts.TheBigBean said:Also, pigs are not going into landfill, they're going into pet food and the like.
Few will be incinerated because that needs a lot of fuel and guess what?0 -
I'm sure it'll only be temporary, so nothing to worry about.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/oct/09/nursing-crisis-sweeps-wards-as-nhs-battles-to-find-recruits0 -
I will check with someone who knows, but I am pretty sure culled livestock would not make it into the food chain.TheBigBean said:
Yes, they get rendered and then used in other things including pet food.rjsterry said:
Only meat fit for human consumption is used in pet food. We actually learnt something from BSE. This is unlikely to be the case if pigs are culled on a farm by the knacker man. They will not be butchered (there being too few butchers) so will be unfit for consumption and far more likely to be rendered into byproducts.TheBigBean said:Also, pigs are not going into landfill, they're going into pet food and the like.
Few will be incinerated because that needs a lot of fuel and guess what?1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
0
-
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/05/fallen-stock-what-happens-now-to-the-uks-unwanted-pigs
What will the culled pig meat be used for?
By-products from animals which are considered fit for human consumption find their way into items such as pet food, animal feed, fish feed and chemicals.
However, the carcasses of any pigs killed on farm would not be inspected after slaughter, meaning they could not be assessed as being fit for human consumption. The carcasses from the current culling are therefore likely to be used only for products such as biodiesel.- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
TheBigBean said:
Must admit I didn't foresee the Brexit thread getting into this area of expertise.0 -
Consumer gas prices in the UK may not yet be particularly higher than those in the EU (where there is anyway a wide range - Swedes pay 4 times what Hungarians and Latvians pay), but that might be because of the low tax applied to household gas consumption in the UK (5%, I think?) In Denmark the tax is over 50%, high also in Sweden and Italy, in Germany about 25%.TheBigBean said:
As I suspected, not true. Some additional inefficiency which can small variances either way.TheBigBean said:
I'd be surprised if that was true.elbowloh said:
Ok, everyone is having problems, but we've got those problems on top of having brexit problems.TheBigBean said:
I suppose it is a reminder just how many problems the world wide supply chain has, and that that probably dwarfs any Brexit issues.pangolin said:BB don't fall for Stevo's narrative that anyone here thinks this is 100% brexit's fault. I see today he's also tacked "and long lasting" onto the strawman he's arguing against.
For example, there's a gas shortage across the globe, but we're having to pay more for our than those in the EU because of Brexit.
https://fullfact.org/online/gas-prices-brexit/
And yet, the idea that people blame Brexit for things not related to Brexit is a strawman?
I don't know what the average current gas prices are in the EU or the UK, however if the UK price is now close to, even if still below, the EU average (a couple of years ago it was a whole 25% lower), then the basic commodity must be, for whatever reason, now much dearer in the UK.
Brexit may not be the complete reason, but what other reason is there?0 -
Lack of storage.jimmyjams said:
Consumer gas prices in the UK may not yet be particularly higher than those in the EU (where there is anyway a wide range - Swedes pay 4 times what Hungarians and Latvians pay), but that might be because of the low tax applied to household gas consumption in the UK (5%, I think?) In Denmark the tax is over 50%, high also in Sweden and Italy, in Germany about 25%.TheBigBean said:
As I suspected, not true. Some additional inefficiency which can small variances either way.TheBigBean said:
I'd be surprised if that was true.elbowloh said:
Ok, everyone is having problems, but we've got those problems on top of having brexit problems.TheBigBean said:
I suppose it is a reminder just how many problems the world wide supply chain has, and that that probably dwarfs any Brexit issues.pangolin said:BB don't fall for Stevo's narrative that anyone here thinks this is 100% brexit's fault. I see today he's also tacked "and long lasting" onto the strawman he's arguing against.
For example, there's a gas shortage across the globe, but we're having to pay more for our than those in the EU because of Brexit.
https://fullfact.org/online/gas-prices-brexit/
And yet, the idea that people blame Brexit for things not related to Brexit is a strawman?
I don't know what the average current gas prices are in the EU or the UK, however if the UK price is now close to, even if still below, the EU average (a couple of years ago it was a whole 25% lower), then the basic commodity must be, for whatever reason, now much dearer in the UK.
Brexit may not be the complete reason, but what other reason is there?0 -
Nothing says 'everything's going well, it's just a blip' like googling uses of culled pigs on a Saturday night“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!3
-
Can confirm.
Fist time in 28 years my team has done more hiring for continental roles than London.0 -
Can pigs be burned for fuel?0
-
That answers my question and I thought I was joking! Two birds, one stone and all that.pangolin said:https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/05/fallen-stock-what-happens-now-to-the-uks-unwanted-pigs
What will the culled pig meat be used for?
By-products from animals which are considered fit for human consumption find their way into items such as pet food, animal feed, fish feed and chemicals.
However, the carcasses of any pigs killed on farm would not be inspected after slaughter, meaning they could not be assessed as being fit for human consumption. The carcasses from the current culling are therefore likely to be used only for products such as biodiesel.1 -
Anecdotally, I drove past 2 more petrol, stations this morning with no queues, so you are right to try to move the debate onto the next short term issue as things adjust.surrey_commuter said:Stevo_666 said:
Exactly my point. It's a short term issue - with various causes many of which were not Brexit related.TheBigBean said:
Is it a long term problem or not?kingstongraham said:Nothing says "wasn't a real problem" like it being notable that a petrol station has petrol.
Petrol is a short term problem that will be replaced by bins being short term problem, that will be joined by...
Could I check whether shooting pigs and burying them in landfill is short term?
The answer to the time span any of these other issues which allow people to say 'aha I told you so' is very probably."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
It would be useful the for you to list out the other issues as you see them. It does appear that you are agreeing with my point about the various causes.pangolin said:BB don't fall for Stevo's narrative that anyone here thinks this is 100% brexit's fault. I see today he's also tacked "and long lasting" onto the strawman he's arguing against.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
This post/twitter thread should be getting more of your attentionddraver said:
Particularly this bit
We're stumbling back to No (trade&cooperation) Deal territory“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
I think you are muddling rendered abbatoir waste and byproducts from animals killed outside the food chain. As I said, I'll check and report back.TheBigBean said:1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Stevo_666 said:
It would be useful the for you to list out the other issues as you see them. It does appear that you are agreeing with my point about the various causes.pangolin said:BB don't fall for Stevo's narrative that anyone here thinks this is 100% brexit's fault. I see today he's also tacked "and long lasting" onto the strawman he's arguing against.
Have you now decided there are issues, and Brexit is partially the cause of some of them?
If so, I think you've now moved in line with where the majority opinion on here has been for a while.
All you need to do to get back in synch with the Conservative party line is to say that if you think about it, the problems where Brexit is a factor are, in fact, good.0 -
Oddly enough it's not an unusual topic of conversation if I'm over seeing my folks. RJS Sr. still occasionally consults for the Food Standards Authority on Meat Hygiene.tailwindhome said:Nothing says 'everything's going well, it's just a blip' like googling uses of culled pigs on a Saturday night
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Spectacularly inefficient when you consider the energy required to render the pig in the first place.Pross said:
That answers my question and I thought I was joking! Two birds, one stone and all that.pangolin said:https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/05/fallen-stock-what-happens-now-to-the-uks-unwanted-pigs
What will the culled pig meat be used for?
By-products from animals which are considered fit for human consumption find their way into items such as pet food, animal feed, fish feed and chemicals.
However, the carcasses of any pigs killed on farm would not be inspected after slaughter, meaning they could not be assessed as being fit for human consumption. The carcasses from the current culling are therefore likely to be used only for products such as biodiesel.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
How many did you drive past that were closed or had queues?Stevo_666 said:
Anecdotally, I drove past 2 more petrol, stations this morning with no queues, so you are right to try to move the debate onto the next short term issue as things adjust.surrey_commuter said:Stevo_666 said:
Exactly my point. It's a short term issue - with various causes many of which were not Brexit related.TheBigBean said:
Is it a long term problem or not?kingstongraham said:Nothing says "wasn't a real problem" like it being notable that a petrol station has petrol.
Petrol is a short term problem that will be replaced by bins being short term problem, that will be joined by...
Could I check whether shooting pigs and burying them in landfill is short term?
The answer to the time span any of these other issues which allow people to say 'aha I told you so' is very probably.0 -
I imagine it can all change by Weds when countries are asked for their sign off.tailwindhome said:
This post/twitter thread should be getting more of your attentionddraver said:
Particularly this bit
We're stumbling back to No (trade&cooperation) Deal territory0 -
Good luck with your increasingly desperate search for the big problem that 'proves' your predetermined view. The last few have all fallen by the waysidekingstongraham said:Stevo_666 said:
It would be useful the for you to list out the other issues as you see them. It does appear that you are agreeing with my point about the various causes.pangolin said:BB don't fall for Stevo's narrative that anyone here thinks this is 100% brexit's fault. I see today he's also tacked "and long lasting" onto the strawman he's arguing against.
Have you now decided there are issues, and Brexit is partially the cause of some of them?
If so, I think you've now moved in line with where the majority opinion on here has been for a while.
All you need to do to get back in synch with the Conservative party line is to say that if you think about it, the problems where Brexit is a factor are, in fact, good.
The view of some seems to be 'well it wasn't this one, but there must be another problem coming - please let it happen...'"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
None.darkhairedlord said:
How many did you drive past that were closed or had queues?Stevo_666 said:
Anecdotally, I drove past 2 more petrol, stations this morning with no queues, so you are right to try to move the debate onto the next short term issue as things adjust.surrey_commuter said:Stevo_666 said:
Exactly my point. It's a short term issue - with various causes many of which were not Brexit related.TheBigBean said:
Is it a long term problem or not?kingstongraham said:Nothing says "wasn't a real problem" like it being notable that a petrol station has petrol.
Petrol is a short term problem that will be replaced by bins being short term problem, that will be joined by...
Could I check whether shooting pigs and burying them in landfill is short term?
The answer to the time span any of these other issues which allow people to say 'aha I told you so' is very probably.
And we drove past 2 more when we went out to take the dogs for a walk just now - both had fuel and none had queues. Hate to disappoint you
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Back to "there's no problems at all" then. That's quite a take.Stevo_666 said:
Good luck with your increasingly desperate search for the big problem that proves your predetermined view. The last few have all fallen by the waysidekingstongraham said:Stevo_666 said:
It would be useful the for you to list out the other issues as you see them. It does appear that you are agreeing with my point about the various causes.pangolin said:BB don't fall for Stevo's narrative that anyone here thinks this is 100% brexit's fault. I see today he's also tacked "and long lasting" onto the strawman he's arguing against.
Have you now decided there are issues, and Brexit is partially the cause of some of them?
If so, I think you've now moved in line with where the majority opinion on here has been for a while.
All you need to do to get back in synch with the Conservative party line is to say that if you think about it, the problems where Brexit is a factor are, in fact, good.
Is this still mainly based on Waitrose having cake to feed the people?0 -
The great thinker of our day, Jeremy Clarkson:There’s also a shortage of microchips and cars and food and toys and feathers and concrete and, most importantly, people. Which means we don’t have anyone to kill our pigs or pick our fruit or deliver our fuel to the filling stations. To get round this problem, anyone with an HGV licence is being offered an annual salary of £2 billion if they’ll get back in the Scania. And everyone — Boris Johnson included — is saying that this is fair enough. No, it isn’t. Because if you’re paying people more to pick an apple and then drivers more to deliver it and the supermarket staff more for selling it, the apple will cost £200,000 and we are going to have runaway inflation.What fascinates me is that I’m still going to the pub and to parties as though nothing’s wrong. But everything’s wrong. Sure, everything has all gone wrong in the past, but back then the country was full, by and large, of people who wanted to put it right. Lord Carrington, for example.
Not any more. Now we have Borrie Johnson at the Tory party conference saying that actually nothing is wrong at all and then banging on about LGBT sandwiches.0 -
Seems Frost is planning to shit on it on TuesdayTheBigBean said:
I imagine it can all change by Weds when countries are asked for their sign off.tailwindhome said:
This post/twitter thread should be getting more of your attentionddraver said:
Particularly this bit
We're stumbling back to No (trade&cooperation) Deal territory“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Double whammy, use pig fat to power the process. All these little piggies will be used up in no time. Maybe that's the inbred version of the nursery rhyme for the 6th toe?rjsterry said:
Spectacularly inefficient when you consider the energy required to render the pig in the first place.Pross said:
That answers my question and I thought I was joking! Two birds, one stone and all that.pangolin said:https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/05/fallen-stock-what-happens-now-to-the-uks-unwanted-pigs
What will the culled pig meat be used for?
By-products from animals which are considered fit for human consumption find their way into items such as pet food, animal feed, fish feed and chemicals.
However, the carcasses of any pigs killed on farm would not be inspected after slaughter, meaning they could not be assessed as being fit for human consumption. The carcasses from the current culling are therefore likely to be used only for products such as biodiesel.
0 -
That's his job as right wing poster boy gonekingstongraham said:The great thinker of our day, Jeremy Clarkson:
There’s also a shortage of microchips and cars and food and toys and feathers and concrete and, most importantly, people. Which means we don’t have anyone to kill our pigs or pick our fruit or deliver our fuel to the filling stations. To get round this problem, anyone with an HGV licence is being offered an annual salary of £2 billion if they’ll get back in the Scania. And everyone — Boris Johnson included — is saying that this is fair enough. No, it isn’t. Because if you’re paying people more to pick an apple and then drivers more to deliver it and the supermarket staff more for selling it, the apple will cost £200,000 and we are going to have runaway inflation.What fascinates me is that I’m still going to the pub and to parties as though nothing’s wrong. But everything’s wrong. Sure, everything has all gone wrong in the past, but back then the country was full, by and large, of people who wanted to put it right. Lord Carrington, for example.
Not any more. Now we have Borrie Johnson at the Tory party conference saying that actually nothing is wrong at all and then banging on about LGBT sandwiches.0 -
I suspect he’s stayed where he is on the spectrum and the govt has just lurched to the extremePross said:
That's his job as right wing poster boy gonekingstongraham said:The great thinker of our day, Jeremy Clarkson:
There’s also a shortage of microchips and cars and food and toys and feathers and concrete and, most importantly, people. Which means we don’t have anyone to kill our pigs or pick our fruit or deliver our fuel to the filling stations. To get round this problem, anyone with an HGV licence is being offered an annual salary of £2 billion if they’ll get back in the Scania. And everyone — Boris Johnson included — is saying that this is fair enough. No, it isn’t. Because if you’re paying people more to pick an apple and then drivers more to deliver it and the supermarket staff more for selling it, the apple will cost £200,000 and we are going to have runaway inflation.What fascinates me is that I’m still going to the pub and to parties as though nothing’s wrong. But everything’s wrong. Sure, everything has all gone wrong in the past, but back then the country was full, by and large, of people who wanted to put it right. Lord Carrington, for example.
Not any more. Now we have Borrie Johnson at the Tory party conference saying that actually nothing is wrong at all and then banging on about LGBT sandwiches.0
