BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

skyblueamateur

Stevo_666 said:

It does appear that there are several factors influencing the cost and that the price rises are not limited to shipping to the UK. For example:
https://hellenicshippingnews.com/container-rates-soar-on-the-north-asia-to-europe-trade-routes/

I stated in my initial post a few pages back that it is a universal issue affecting all goods coming from the Far East.

Not sure why people think I'm moaning about it being Brexit related. I've argued the opposite.

kingstongraham

david37 said:

TheBigBean said:

Shipping costs from China aren't related to Brexit though, are they?

no but dont let that stop them moaning. I think there might be a small amount of brexit issues in that some of the UK / EU ports have brexit related delays but the main issue appears to be related to covid disruption.

Disruption at ports leading to blockage and some of the mega factories stopping or pausing shipments and containers effectively being taken out of circulation.

In which case once capacity returns to normal and back logs have cleared, the price should come back down.

Wether that results in lower prices remains to be seen.

The first person to mention it here said it wasn't Brexit related, but you carry on.

Increased costs at our ports over the EU because of Felixstowe's problems last year won't exactly help us be more competitive when combined with everything else though.

Stevo_666

skyblueamateur said:

Stevo_666 said:

It does appear that there are several factors influencing the cost and that the price rises are not limited to shipping to the UK. For example:
https://hellenicshippingnews.com/container-rates-soar-on-the-north-asia-to-europe-trade-routes/

I stated in my initial post a few pages back that it is a universal issue affecting all goods coming from the Far East.

Not sure why people think I'm moaning about it being Brexit related. I've argued the opposite.

I missed that previous post of yours, but am not taking the tack you think - more throwing some light on the wider situation. It is also partly for the benefit of others who may think this is all UK and Brexit related.

skyblueamateur

Stevo_666 said:

skyblueamateur said:

Stevo_666 said:

It does appear that there are several factors influencing the cost and that the price rises are not limited to shipping to the UK. For example:
https://hellenicshippingnews.com/container-rates-soar-on-the-north-asia-to-europe-trade-routes/

I stated in my initial post a few pages back that it is a universal issue affecting all goods coming from the Far East.

Not sure why people think I'm moaning about it being Brexit related. I've argued the opposite.

I missed that previous post of yours, but am not taking the tack you think - more throwing some light on the wider situation. It is also partly for the benefit of others who may think this is all UK and Brexit related.

TBF I shouldn't have quoted you Stevo as you've always come across as fair minded to me on here.

Stevo_666

skyblueamateur said:

Stevo_666 said:

skyblueamateur said:

Stevo_666 said:

It does appear that there are several factors influencing the cost and that the price rises are not limited to shipping to the UK. For example:
https://hellenicshippingnews.com/container-rates-soar-on-the-north-asia-to-europe-trade-routes/

I stated in my initial post a few pages back that it is a universal issue affecting all goods coming from the Far East.

Not sure why people think I'm moaning about it being Brexit related. I've argued the opposite.

I missed that previous post of yours, but am not taking the tack you think - more throwing some light on the wider situation. It is also partly for the benefit of others who may think this is all UK and Brexit related.

TBF I shouldn't have quoted you Stevo as you've always come across as fair minded to me on here.

No worries SBA.

I know about the shipping rises because our group mostly manufactures in the Far East and brings the kit into Europe via the Netherlands. That price hike is the one that is hurting rather than the cross channel shipping costs. Biggest problem we seem to have currently on the UK-EU flows is the Dutch Port Base system is taking ages to release shipments inbound into Rotterdam.

surrey_commuter

skyblueamateur said:

surrey_commuter said:

skyblueamateur said:

loltoride said:

skyblueamateur said:

The price of all Taiwanese frames are going to increase regardless because of the large increase in container freight charges from the Far East. They've tripled since October because of a shortage of containers.

Not exactly true the major problem is the raw materials in particular aluminum, I know of manufacturers that have warehouses full of carbon bikes but no parts to complete build as of this morning.

I was using bikes as an example. All product from the Far East will increase in cost due to the massive, massive increase in shipping costs.

We were paying USD4,500 for a 40' HQ Container and are now paying anywhere between USD13-16,000. That's not an increase you can just absorb. We've been experiencing this since mid-December.

We are also experiencing raw material increase of between 3-8% but this has been offset somewhat by the strengthening pound.

I get that there will be a wide variation but what sort of goods values are we talking in one of these containers?

I can not begin to guess how many sofas or bike frames you could get in a container

There can be massive variations.

We buy some smaller parts that are reasonably high value but lower volume so when amortised its not too bad.

On the flip we also purchase reasonably large parts with little value. These are obviously going to have a hefty price increase.

With regards sofas I would guess maybe 60 in a 40' HQ container so would add approx. £150-£200 per sofa.

TBF I'm unsure how they package them so could well be underestimating how many you get in a container.

Thank you

pblakeney

TheBigBean said:

Shipping costs from China aren't related to Brexit though, are they?

Not directly but as our ports are screwed up they are adding on a 50% surcharge on top of what they charge Holland. Brexit bonus for shipping.

Stevo_666

pblakeney said:

TheBigBean said:

Shipping costs from China aren't related to Brexit though, are they?

Not directly but as our ports are screwed up they are adding on a 50% surcharge on top of what they charge Holland. Brexit bonus for shipping.

I think you will find part of that was late last year when companies were stocking up in advance of a potential no deal.

darkhairedlord

rick_chasey said:

If we were at full employment why was wage growth so stagnant?

importing EU labour to undermine pay-claims in marginal employment.

rick_chasey

darkhairedlord said:

rick_chasey said:

If we were at full employment why was wage growth so stagnant?

importing EU labour to undermine pay-claims in marginal employment.

Nonsense

sungod

TheBigBean said:

Shipping costs from China aren't related to Brexit though, are they?

short term, yes there's an impact, it's been reported that pre-2021 stockpiling in the uk created an excess of inbound vs. outbound containers

then 2021 kicked in, mixed shipments could no longer be landed in eu or uk, broken up and freely shipped to the other by road (train, ferry)

even if all the documentation is 100% correct it still adds cost for the onward shipment, short term there've been backlogs due to documentation/process troubles

but the pandemic is distorting the market, pushing up rates overall, probably the biggest factor

once that eases i'd guess for mixed eu/uk shipments there'll still be a premium on uk landed as volumes will be lower than eu landed, logically they'll land in eu and onward ship to uk with added overhead

either way, china will do fine

john80

skyblueamateur said:

loltoride said:

skyblueamateur said:

The price of all Taiwanese frames are going to increase regardless because of the large increase in container freight charges from the Far East. They've tripled since October because of a shortage of containers.

Not exactly true the major problem is the raw materials in particular aluminum, I know of manufacturers that have warehouses full of carbon bikes but no parts to complete build as of this morning.

I was using bikes as an example. All product from the Far East will increase in cost due to the massive, massive increase in shipping costs.

We were paying USD4,500 for a 40' HQ Container and are now paying anywhere between USD13-16,000. That's not an increase you can just absorb. We've been experiencing this since mid-December.

We are also experiencing raw material increase of between 3-8% but this has been offset somewhat by the strengthening pound.

The issue is that container costs have increased for everyone. It it was a brexit issue then everyone would not be seeing container costs increase. The UK has always paid a percentage over for container costs compared to Europe. It is simple economics. If you are going to dock a boat to offload 25% of the containers to then offload the remaining 75% in the EU then it obviously costs more. It is practically the same time to offload hence the uplift.

john80

skyblueamateur said:

surrey_commuter said:

skyblueamateur said:

loltoride said:

skyblueamateur said:

The price of all Taiwanese frames are going to increase regardless because of the large increase in container freight charges from the Far East. They've tripled since October because of a shortage of containers.

Not exactly true the major problem is the raw materials in particular aluminum, I know of manufacturers that have warehouses full of carbon bikes but no parts to complete build as of this morning.

I was using bikes as an example. All product from the Far East will increase in cost due to the massive, massive increase in shipping costs.

We were paying USD4,500 for a 40' HQ Container and are now paying anywhere between USD13-16,000. That's not an increase you can just absorb. We've been experiencing this since mid-December.

We are also experiencing raw material increase of between 3-8% but this has been offset somewhat by the strengthening pound.

I get that there will be a wide variation but what sort of goods values are we talking in one of these containers?

I can not begin to guess how many sofas or bike frames you could get in a container

There can be massive variations.

We buy some smaller parts that are reasonably high value but lower volume so when amortised its not too bad.

On the flip we also purchase reasonably large parts with little value. These are obviously going to have a hefty price increase.

With regards sofas I would guess maybe 60 in a 40' HQ container so would add approx. £150-£200 per sofa.

TBF I'm unsure how they package them so could well be underestimating how many you get in a container.

The last set of bedroom furniture we bought was russian oak shipped to China, made into furniture and then shipped whole to the UK and sold from a farm shed using the internet for the sale. It would be funny if it was not so tragic.

rick_chasey

https://www.fnlondon.com/articles/tp-icaps-disappointing-europe-trading-delay-highlights-city-brexit-snags-20210125

TP ICAP shocked investors with a warning that the London broker is unable to service some European clients because of a delay in the completion of its new trading base in Europe.

In absence of a deal for financial services, the loss of passporting rights in Europe means that TP ICAP’s UK-based offices “no longer have the full scope of necessary regulatory permissions” to conduct some of its services on the continent, TP ICAP said in a statement.

It's a worrying example of Brexit stumbles throughout the City since the end of the transition period on New Year's Eve. While larger banks have spent years getting ready for possible disruptions by moving people to Europe, other firms are now clambering to find solutions. These include the booking of trades through entities on the continent, sending business to other colleagues in EU branches and relocating staff.

While TP ICAP partly blames the Covid-19 pandemic, citing “extraordinary circumstances” relating to the subsequent lockdowns, some have questioned why the company is scrambling to move staff to Europe more than four years after the Brexit vote.

Canaccord Genuity told clients that TP ICAP’s statement was “disappointing”, and that it will “take investors by surprise”.

I wonder if Michael Spencer still thinks his generous donations and public backing of BoJo were worth it.

surrey_commuter

rick_chasey said:

https://www.fnlondon.com/articles/tp-icaps-disappointing-europe-trading-delay-highlights-city-brexit-snags-20210125

TP ICAP shocked investors with a warning that the London broker is unable to service some European clients because of a delay in the completion of its new trading base in Europe.

In absence of a deal for financial services, the loss of passporting rights in Europe means that TP ICAP’s UK-based offices “no longer have the full scope of necessary regulatory permissions” to conduct some of its services on the continent, TP ICAP said in a statement.

It's a worrying example of Brexit stumbles throughout the City since the end of the transition period on New Year's Eve. While larger banks have spent years getting ready for possible disruptions by moving people to Europe, other firms are now clambering to find solutions. These include the booking of trades through entities on the continent, sending business to other colleagues in EU branches and relocating staff.

While TP ICAP partly blames the Covid-19 pandemic, citing “extraordinary circumstances” relating to the subsequent lockdowns, some have questioned why the company is scrambling to move staff to Europe more than four years after the Brexit vote.

Canaccord Genuity told clients that TP ICAP’s statement was “disappointing”, and that it will “take investors by surprise”.

I wonder if Michael Spencer still thinks his generous donations and public backing of BoJo were worth it.

I am sure he will get by.

Surprised a firm that big messed up.

surrey_commuter

john80 said:

skyblueamateur said:

surrey_commuter said:

skyblueamateur said:

loltoride said:

skyblueamateur said:

The price of all Taiwanese frames are going to increase regardless because of the large increase in container freight charges from the Far East. They've tripled since October because of a shortage of containers.

Not exactly true the major problem is the raw materials in particular aluminum, I know of manufacturers that have warehouses full of carbon bikes but no parts to complete build as of this morning.

I was using bikes as an example. All product from the Far East will increase in cost due to the massive, massive increase in shipping costs.

We were paying USD4,500 for a 40' HQ Container and are now paying anywhere between USD13-16,000. That's not an increase you can just absorb. We've been experiencing this since mid-December.

We are also experiencing raw material increase of between 3-8% but this has been offset somewhat by the strengthening pound.

I get that there will be a wide variation but what sort of goods values are we talking in one of these containers?

I can not begin to guess how many sofas or bike frames you could get in a container

There can be massive variations.

We buy some smaller parts that are reasonably high value but lower volume so when amortised its not too bad.

On the flip we also purchase reasonably large parts with little value. These are obviously going to have a hefty price increase.

With regards sofas I would guess maybe 60 in a 40' HQ container so would add approx. £150-£200 per sofa.

TBF I'm unsure how they package them so could well be underestimating how many you get in a container.

The last set of bedroom furniture we bought was russian oak shipped to China, made into furniture and then shipped whole to the UK and sold from a farm shed using the internet for the sale. It would be funny if it was not so tragic.

To me that is an uplifting example of how intl trade and technology have combined with entrepreneurial zeal to provide an alternative revenue stream for the farmer and provide a better product for the consumer.

I honestly don’t get why that is tragic

pangolin

surrey_commuter said:

john80 said:

skyblueamateur said:

surrey_commuter said:

skyblueamateur said:

loltoride said:

skyblueamateur said:

The price of all Taiwanese frames are going to increase regardless because of the large increase in container freight charges from the Far East. They've tripled since October because of a shortage of containers.

Not exactly true the major problem is the raw materials in particular aluminum, I know of manufacturers that have warehouses full of carbon bikes but no parts to complete build as of this morning.

I was using bikes as an example. All product from the Far East will increase in cost due to the massive, massive increase in shipping costs.

We were paying USD4,500 for a 40' HQ Container and are now paying anywhere between USD13-16,000. That's not an increase you can just absorb. We've been experiencing this since mid-December.

We are also experiencing raw material increase of between 3-8% but this has been offset somewhat by the strengthening pound.

I get that there will be a wide variation but what sort of goods values are we talking in one of these containers?

I can not begin to guess how many sofas or bike frames you could get in a container

There can be massive variations.

We buy some smaller parts that are reasonably high value but lower volume so when amortised its not too bad.

On the flip we also purchase reasonably large parts with little value. These are obviously going to have a hefty price increase.

With regards sofas I would guess maybe 60 in a 40' HQ container so would add approx. £150-£200 per sofa.

TBF I'm unsure how they package them so could well be underestimating how many you get in a container.

The last set of bedroom furniture we bought was russian oak shipped to China, made into furniture and then shipped whole to the UK and sold from a farm shed using the internet for the sale. It would be funny if it was not so tragic.

To me that is an uplifting example of how intl trade and technology have combined with entrepreneurial zeal to provide an alternative revenue stream for the farmer and provide a better product for the consumer.

I honestly don’t get why that is tragic

It's pretty terrible for the environment

surrey_commuter

pangolin said:

surrey_commuter said:

john80 said:

skyblueamateur said:

surrey_commuter said:

skyblueamateur said:

loltoride said:

skyblueamateur said:

The price of all Taiwanese frames are going to increase regardless because of the large increase in container freight charges from the Far East. They've tripled since October because of a shortage of containers.

Not exactly true the major problem is the raw materials in particular aluminum, I know of manufacturers that have warehouses full of carbon bikes but no parts to complete build as of this morning.

I was using bikes as an example. All product from the Far East will increase in cost due to the massive, massive increase in shipping costs.

We were paying USD4,500 for a 40' HQ Container and are now paying anywhere between USD13-16,000. That's not an increase you can just absorb. We've been experiencing this since mid-December.

We are also experiencing raw material increase of between 3-8% but this has been offset somewhat by the strengthening pound.

I get that there will be a wide variation but what sort of goods values are we talking in one of these containers?

I can not begin to guess how many sofas or bike frames you could get in a container

There can be massive variations.

We buy some smaller parts that are reasonably high value but lower volume so when amortised its not too bad.

On the flip we also purchase reasonably large parts with little value. These are obviously going to have a hefty price increase.

With regards sofas I would guess maybe 60 in a 40' HQ container so would add approx. £150-£200 per sofa.

TBF I'm unsure how they package them so could well be underestimating how many you get in a container.

The last set of bedroom furniture we bought was russian oak shipped to China, made into furniture and then shipped whole to the UK and sold from a farm shed using the internet for the sale. It would be funny if it was not so tragic.

To me that is an uplifting example of how intl trade and technology have combined with entrepreneurial zeal to provide an alternative revenue stream for the farmer and provide a better product for the consumer.

I honestly don’t get why that is tragic

It's pretty terrible for the environment

But he did all his research and bought it, if he thought that he would have gone to his local craftsman and had it made from pine.

john80

surrey_commuter said:

john80 said:

skyblueamateur said:

surrey_commuter said:

skyblueamateur said:

loltoride said:

skyblueamateur said:

The price of all Taiwanese frames are going to increase regardless because of the large increase in container freight charges from the Far East. They've tripled since October because of a shortage of containers.

Not exactly true the major problem is the raw materials in particular aluminum, I know of manufacturers that have warehouses full of carbon bikes but no parts to complete build as of this morning.

I was using bikes as an example. All product from the Far East will increase in cost due to the massive, massive increase in shipping costs.

We were paying USD4,500 for a 40' HQ Container and are now paying anywhere between USD13-16,000. That's not an increase you can just absorb. We've been experiencing this since mid-December.

We are also experiencing raw material increase of between 3-8% but this has been offset somewhat by the strengthening pound.

I get that there will be a wide variation but what sort of goods values are we talking in one of these containers?

I can not begin to guess how many sofas or bike frames you could get in a container

There can be massive variations.

We buy some smaller parts that are reasonably high value but lower volume so when amortised its not too bad.

On the flip we also purchase reasonably large parts with little value. These are obviously going to have a hefty price increase.

With regards sofas I would guess maybe 60 in a 40' HQ container so would add approx. £150-£200 per sofa.

TBF I'm unsure how they package them so could well be underestimating how many you get in a container.

The last set of bedroom furniture we bought was russian oak shipped to China, made into furniture and then shipped whole to the UK and sold from a farm shed using the internet for the sale. It would be funny if it was not so tragic.

To me that is an uplifting example of how intl trade and technology have combined with entrepreneurial zeal to provide an alternative revenue stream for the farmer and provide a better product for the consumer.

I honestly don’t get why that is tragic

Think of the planet then think of an local economy that can't compete with that cluster of a manufacture route.

pangolin

surrey_commuter said:

pangolin said:

surrey_commuter said:

john80 said:

skyblueamateur said:

surrey_commuter said:

skyblueamateur said:

loltoride said:

skyblueamateur said:

The price of all Taiwanese frames are going to increase regardless because of the large increase in container freight charges from the Far East. They've tripled since October because of a shortage of containers.

Not exactly true the major problem is the raw materials in particular aluminum, I know of manufacturers that have warehouses full of carbon bikes but no parts to complete build as of this morning.

I was using bikes as an example. All product from the Far East will increase in cost due to the massive, massive increase in shipping costs.

We were paying USD4,500 for a 40' HQ Container and are now paying anywhere between USD13-16,000. That's not an increase you can just absorb. We've been experiencing this since mid-December.

We are also experiencing raw material increase of between 3-8% but this has been offset somewhat by the strengthening pound.

I get that there will be a wide variation but what sort of goods values are we talking in one of these containers?

I can not begin to guess how many sofas or bike frames you could get in a container

There can be massive variations.

We buy some smaller parts that are reasonably high value but lower volume so when amortised its not too bad.

On the flip we also purchase reasonably large parts with little value. These are obviously going to have a hefty price increase.

With regards sofas I would guess maybe 60 in a 40' HQ container so would add approx. £150-£200 per sofa.

TBF I'm unsure how they package them so could well be underestimating how many you get in a container.

The last set of bedroom furniture we bought was russian oak shipped to China, made into furniture and then shipped whole to the UK and sold from a farm shed using the internet for the sale. It would be funny if it was not so tragic.

To me that is an uplifting example of how intl trade and technology have combined with entrepreneurial zeal to provide an alternative revenue stream for the farmer and provide a better product for the consumer.

I honestly don’t get why that is tragic

It's pretty terrible for the environment

But he did all his research and bought it, if he thought that he would have gone to his local craftsman and had it made from pine.

Sure, it demonstrates that eco friendly wasn't his chief criteria. I think it's fairly clear that if we value the environment, leaving it up to consumers and businesses to do the right thing doesn't really cut it, and there is a place for government intervention. I appreciate you're unlikely to agree with that though.

surrey_commuter

john80 said:

surrey_commuter said:

john80 said:

skyblueamateur said:

surrey_commuter said:

skyblueamateur said:

loltoride said:

skyblueamateur said:

The price of all Taiwanese frames are going to increase regardless because of the large increase in container freight charges from the Far East. They've tripled since October because of a shortage of containers.

Not exactly true the major problem is the raw materials in particular aluminum, I know of manufacturers that have warehouses full of carbon bikes but no parts to complete build as of this morning.

I was using bikes as an example. All product from the Far East will increase in cost due to the massive, massive increase in shipping costs.

We were paying USD4,500 for a 40' HQ Container and are now paying anywhere between USD13-16,000. That's not an increase you can just absorb. We've been experiencing this since mid-December.

We are also experiencing raw material increase of between 3-8% but this has been offset somewhat by the strengthening pound.

I get that there will be a wide variation but what sort of goods values are we talking in one of these containers?

I can not begin to guess how many sofas or bike frames you could get in a container

There can be massive variations.

We buy some smaller parts that are reasonably high value but lower volume so when amortised its not too bad.

On the flip we also purchase reasonably large parts with little value. These are obviously going to have a hefty price increase.

With regards sofas I would guess maybe 60 in a 40' HQ container so would add approx. £150-£200 per sofa.

TBF I'm unsure how they package them so could well be underestimating how many you get in a container.

The last set of bedroom furniture we bought was russian oak shipped to China, made into furniture and then shipped whole to the UK and sold from a farm shed using the internet for the sale. It would be funny if it was not so tragic.

To me that is an uplifting example of how intl trade and technology have combined with entrepreneurial zeal to provide an alternative revenue stream for the farmer and provide a better product for the consumer.

I honestly don’t get why that is tragic

Think of the planet then think of an local economy that can't compete with that cluster of a manufacture route.

Wow I am confused - did you buy it or not?

rick_chasey

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

https://www.fnlondon.com/articles/tp-icaps-disappointing-europe-trading-delay-highlights-city-brexit-snags-20210125

TP ICAP shocked investors with a warning that the London broker is unable to service some European clients because of a delay in the completion of its new trading base in Europe.

In absence of a deal for financial services, the loss of passporting rights in Europe means that TP ICAP’s UK-based offices “no longer have the full scope of necessary regulatory permissions” to conduct some of its services on the continent, TP ICAP said in a statement.

It's a worrying example of Brexit stumbles throughout the City since the end of the transition period on New Year's Eve. While larger banks have spent years getting ready for possible disruptions by moving people to Europe, other firms are now clambering to find solutions. These include the booking of trades through entities on the continent, sending business to other colleagues in EU branches and relocating staff.

While TP ICAP partly blames the Covid-19 pandemic, citing “extraordinary circumstances” relating to the subsequent lockdowns, some have questioned why the company is scrambling to move staff to Europe more than four years after the Brexit vote.

Canaccord Genuity told clients that TP ICAP’s statement was “disappointing”, and that it will “take investors by surprise”.

I wonder if Michael Spencer still thinks his generous donations and public backing of BoJo were worth it.

I am sure he will get by.

Surprised a firm that big messed up.

I have a low opinion of inter-dealer brokers, so I am not surprised.

surrey_commuter

pangolin said:

surrey_commuter said:

pangolin said:

surrey_commuter said:

john80 said:

skyblueamateur said:

surrey_commuter said:

skyblueamateur said:

loltoride said:

skyblueamateur said:

The price of all Taiwanese frames are going to increase regardless because of the large increase in container freight charges from the Far East. They've tripled since October because of a shortage of containers.

Not exactly true the major problem is the raw materials in particular aluminum, I know of manufacturers that have warehouses full of carbon bikes but no parts to complete build as of this morning.

I was using bikes as an example. All product from the Far East will increase in cost due to the massive, massive increase in shipping costs.

We were paying USD4,500 for a 40' HQ Container and are now paying anywhere between USD13-16,000. That's not an increase you can just absorb. We've been experiencing this since mid-December.

We are also experiencing raw material increase of between 3-8% but this has been offset somewhat by the strengthening pound.

I get that there will be a wide variation but what sort of goods values are we talking in one of these containers?

I can not begin to guess how many sofas or bike frames you could get in a container

There can be massive variations.

We buy some smaller parts that are reasonably high value but lower volume so when amortised its not too bad.

On the flip we also purchase reasonably large parts with little value. These are obviously going to have a hefty price increase.

With regards sofas I would guess maybe 60 in a 40' HQ container so would add approx. £150-£200 per sofa.

TBF I'm unsure how they package them so could well be underestimating how many you get in a container.

The last set of bedroom furniture we bought was russian oak shipped to China, made into furniture and then shipped whole to the UK and sold from a farm shed using the internet for the sale. It would be funny if it was not so tragic.

To me that is an uplifting example of how intl trade and technology have combined with entrepreneurial zeal to provide an alternative revenue stream for the farmer and provide a better product for the consumer.

I honestly don’t get why that is tragic

It's pretty terrible for the environment

But he did all his research and bought it, if he thought that he would have gone to his local craftsman and had it made from pine.

Sure, it demonstrates that eco friendly wasn't his chief criteria. I think it's fairly clear that if we value the environment, leaving it up to consumers and businesses to do the right thing doesn't really cut it, and there is a place for government intervention. I appreciate you're unlikely to agree with that though.

I get your point but the oak may have had a very short journey to it’s point of manufacturing

pangolin

surrey_commuter said:

pangolin said:

surrey_commuter said:

pangolin said:

surrey_commuter said:

john80 said:

skyblueamateur said:

surrey_commuter said:

skyblueamateur said:

loltoride said:

skyblueamateur said:

The price of all Taiwanese frames are going to increase regardless because of the large increase in container freight charges from the Far East. They've tripled since October because of a shortage of containers.

Not exactly true the major problem is the raw materials in particular aluminum, I know of manufacturers that have warehouses full of carbon bikes but no parts to complete build as of this morning.

I was using bikes as an example. All product from the Far East will increase in cost due to the massive, massive increase in shipping costs.

We were paying USD4,500 for a 40' HQ Container and are now paying anywhere between USD13-16,000. That's not an increase you can just absorb. We've been experiencing this since mid-December.

We are also experiencing raw material increase of between 3-8% but this has been offset somewhat by the strengthening pound.

I get that there will be a wide variation but what sort of goods values are we talking in one of these containers?

I can not begin to guess how many sofas or bike frames you could get in a container

There can be massive variations.

We buy some smaller parts that are reasonably high value but lower volume so when amortised its not too bad.

On the flip we also purchase reasonably large parts with little value. These are obviously going to have a hefty price increase.

With regards sofas I would guess maybe 60 in a 40' HQ container so would add approx. £150-£200 per sofa.

TBF I'm unsure how they package them so could well be underestimating how many you get in a container.

The last set of bedroom furniture we bought was russian oak shipped to China, made into furniture and then shipped whole to the UK and sold from a farm shed using the internet for the sale. It would be funny if it was not so tragic.

To me that is an uplifting example of how intl trade and technology have combined with entrepreneurial zeal to provide an alternative revenue stream for the farmer and provide a better product for the consumer.

I honestly don’t get why that is tragic

It's pretty terrible for the environment

But he did all his research and bought it, if he thought that he would have gone to his local craftsman and had it made from pine.

Sure, it demonstrates that eco friendly wasn't his chief criteria. I think it's fairly clear that if we value the environment, leaving it up to consumers and businesses to do the right thing doesn't really cut it, and there is a place for government intervention. I appreciate you're unlikely to agree with that though.

I get your point but the oak may have had a very short journey to it’s point of manufacturing

Yes, very true.

john80

surrey_commuter said:

john80 said:

surrey_commuter said:

john80 said:

skyblueamateur said:

surrey_commuter said:

skyblueamateur said:

loltoride said:

skyblueamateur said:

The price of all Taiwanese frames are going to increase regardless because of the large increase in container freight charges from the Far East. They've tripled since October because of a shortage of containers.

Not exactly true the major problem is the raw materials in particular aluminum, I know of manufacturers that have warehouses full of carbon bikes but no parts to complete build as of this morning.

I was using bikes as an example. All product from the Far East will increase in cost due to the massive, massive increase in shipping costs.

We were paying USD4,500 for a 40' HQ Container and are now paying anywhere between USD13-16,000. That's not an increase you can just absorb. We've been experiencing this since mid-December.

We are also experiencing raw material increase of between 3-8% but this has been offset somewhat by the strengthening pound.

I get that there will be a wide variation but what sort of goods values are we talking in one of these containers?

I can not begin to guess how many sofas or bike frames you could get in a container

There can be massive variations.

We buy some smaller parts that are reasonably high value but lower volume so when amortised its not too bad.

On the flip we also purchase reasonably large parts with little value. These are obviously going to have a hefty price increase.

With regards sofas I would guess maybe 60 in a 40' HQ container so would add approx. £150-£200 per sofa.

TBF I'm unsure how they package them so could well be underestimating how many you get in a container.

The last set of bedroom furniture we bought was russian oak shipped to China, made into furniture and then shipped whole to the UK and sold from a farm shed using the internet for the sale. It would be funny if it was not so tragic.

To me that is an uplifting example of how intl trade and technology have combined with entrepreneurial zeal to provide an alternative revenue stream for the farmer and provide a better product for the consumer.

I honestly don’t get why that is tragic

Think of the planet then think of an local economy that can't compete with that cluster of a manufacture route.

Wow I am confused - did you buy it or not?

I did buy it yes and have had the furniture for over 10 years. When I was in uni I assumed energy costs would re level the world economy and tip the balance back from developing countries. I underestimated massively just how cost efficient shipping is. The only furniture

darkhairedlord

rick_chasey said:

https://www.fnlondon.com/articles/tp-icaps-disappointing-europe-trading-delay-highlights-city-brexit-snags-20210125

TP ICAP shocked investors with a warning that the London broker is unable to service some European clients because of a delay in the completion of its new trading base in Europe.

In absence of a deal for financial services, the loss of passporting rights in Europe means that TP ICAP’s UK-based offices “no longer have the full scope of necessary regulatory permissions” to conduct some of its services on the continent, TP ICAP said in a statement.

It's a worrying example of Brexit stumbles throughout the City since the end of the transition period on New Year's Eve. While larger banks have spent years getting ready for possible disruptions by moving people to Europe, other firms are now clambering to find solutions. These include the booking of trades through entities on the continent, sending business to other colleagues in EU branches and relocating staff.

While TP ICAP partly blames the Covid-19 pandemic, citing “extraordinary circumstances” relating to the subsequent lockdowns, some have questioned why the company is scrambling to move staff to Europe more than four years after the Brexit vote.

Canaccord Genuity told clients that TP ICAP’s statement was “disappointing”, and that it will “take investors by surprise”.

I wonder if Michael Spencer still thinks his generous donations and public backing of BoJo were worth it.

we spent most of that four years not knowing what, if any, brexit we would get. So it's no wonder most businesses invested little in Brexit mitigation, especially with BJ telling everyone it would all be fine and no need for paperwork.

kingstongraham

darkhairedlord said:

rick_chasey said:

https://www.fnlondon.com/articles/tp-icaps-disappointing-europe-trading-delay-highlights-city-brexit-snags-20210125

TP ICAP shocked investors with a warning that the London broker is unable to service some European clients because of a delay in the completion of its new trading base in Europe.

In absence of a deal for financial services, the loss of passporting rights in Europe means that TP ICAP’s UK-based offices “no longer have the full scope of necessary regulatory permissions” to conduct some of its services on the continent, TP ICAP said in a statement.

It's a worrying example of Brexit stumbles throughout the City since the end of the transition period on New Year's Eve. While larger banks have spent years getting ready for possible disruptions by moving people to Europe, other firms are now clambering to find solutions. These include the booking of trades through entities on the continent, sending business to other colleagues in EU branches and relocating staff.

While TP ICAP partly blames the Covid-19 pandemic, citing “extraordinary circumstances” relating to the subsequent lockdowns, some have questioned why the company is scrambling to move staff to Europe more than four years after the Brexit vote.

Canaccord Genuity told clients that TP ICAP’s statement was “disappointing”, and that it will “take investors by surprise”.

I wonder if Michael Spencer still thinks his generous donations and public backing of BoJo were worth it.

we spent most of that four years not knowing what, if any, brexit we would get. So it's no wonder most businesses invested little in Brexit mitigation, especially with BJ telling everyone it would all be fine and no need for paperwork.

If you've left it till now rather than being prepared for March 2019, June 2019, October 2019 and December 2020, you're probably up overall.

Dorset_Boy

darkhairedlord said:

rick_chasey said:

https://www.fnlondon.com/articles/tp-icaps-disappointing-europe-trading-delay-highlights-city-brexit-snags-20210125

TP ICAP shocked investors with a warning that the London broker is unable to service some European clients because of a delay in the completion of its new trading base in Europe.

In absence of a deal for financial services, the loss of passporting rights in Europe means that TP ICAP’s UK-based offices “no longer have the full scope of necessary regulatory permissions” to conduct some of its services on the continent, TP ICAP said in a statement.

It's a worrying example of Brexit stumbles throughout the City since the end of the transition period on New Year's Eve. While larger banks have spent years getting ready for possible disruptions by moving people to Europe, other firms are now clambering to find solutions. These include the booking of trades through entities on the continent, sending business to other colleagues in EU branches and relocating staff.

While TP ICAP partly blames the Covid-19 pandemic, citing “extraordinary circumstances” relating to the subsequent lockdowns, some have questioned why the company is scrambling to move staff to Europe more than four years after the Brexit vote.

Canaccord Genuity told clients that TP ICAP’s statement was “disappointing”, and that it will “take investors by surprise”.

I wonder if Michael Spencer still thinks his generous donations and public backing of BoJo were worth it.

we spent most of that four years not knowing what, if any, brexit we would get. So it's no wonder most businesses invested little in Brexit mitigation, especially with BJ telling everyone it would all be fine and no need for paperwork.

In financial services you needed passporting to do business in the EU pre-Brexit. It was obvious to anyone in the sector that there was a very strong likelihood that passporting wouldn't be carried through and alternative arrangements would need to be made, especially as Frankfurt and Paris have had their eyes on part of the London cake for some time.

rjsterry

john80 said:

skyblueamateur said:

surrey_commuter said:

skyblueamateur said:

loltoride said:

skyblueamateur said:

The price of all Taiwanese frames are going to increase regardless because of the large increase in container freight charges from the Far East. They've tripled since October because of a shortage of containers.

Not exactly true the major problem is the raw materials in particular aluminum, I know of manufacturers that have warehouses full of carbon bikes but no parts to complete build as of this morning.

I was using bikes as an example. All product from the Far East will increase in cost due to the massive, massive increase in shipping costs.

We were paying USD4,500 for a 40' HQ Container and are now paying anywhere between USD13-16,000. That's not an increase you can just absorb. We've been experiencing this since mid-December.

We are also experiencing raw material increase of between 3-8% but this has been offset somewhat by the strengthening pound.

I get that there will be a wide variation but what sort of goods values are we talking in one of these containers?

I can not begin to guess how many sofas or bike frames you could get in a container

There can be massive variations.

We buy some smaller parts that are reasonably high value but lower volume so when amortised its not too bad.

On the flip we also purchase reasonably large parts with little value. These are obviously going to have a hefty price increase.

With regards sofas I would guess maybe 60 in a 40' HQ container so would add approx. £150-£200 per sofa.

TBF I'm unsure how they package them so could well be underestimating how many you get in a container.

The last set of bedroom furniture we bought was russian oak shipped to China, made into furniture and then shipped whole to the UK and sold from a farm shed using the internet for the sale. It would be funny if it was not so tragic.

Why on earth is that tragic? There are plenty of UK based joiners if you feel so inclined and some even source local timber (although it's scarce). They will be more expensive, though.

briantrumpet

rjsterry said:

john80 said:

skyblueamateur said:

surrey_commuter said:

skyblueamateur said:

loltoride said:

skyblueamateur said:

The price of all Taiwanese frames are going to increase regardless because of the large increase in container freight charges from the Far East. They've tripled since October because of a shortage of containers.

Not exactly true the major problem is the raw materials in particular aluminum, I know of manufacturers that have warehouses full of carbon bikes but no parts to complete build as of this morning.

I was using bikes as an example. All product from the Far East will increase in cost due to the massive, massive increase in shipping costs.

We were paying USD4,500 for a 40' HQ Container and are now paying anywhere between USD13-16,000. That's not an increase you can just absorb. We've been experiencing this since mid-December.

We are also experiencing raw material increase of between 3-8% but this has been offset somewhat by the strengthening pound.

I get that there will be a wide variation but what sort of goods values are we talking in one of these containers?

I can not begin to guess how many sofas or bike frames you could get in a container

There can be massive variations.

We buy some smaller parts that are reasonably high value but lower volume so when amortised its not too bad.

On the flip we also purchase reasonably large parts with little value. These are obviously going to have a hefty price increase.

With regards sofas I would guess maybe 60 in a 40' HQ container so would add approx. £150-£200 per sofa.

TBF I'm unsure how they package them so could well be underestimating how many you get in a container.

The last set of bedroom furniture we bought was russian oak shipped to China, made into furniture and then shipped whole to the UK and sold from a farm shed using the internet for the sale. It would be funny if it was not so tragic.

Why on earth is that tragic? There are plenty of UK based joiners if you feel so inclined and some even source local timber (although it's scarce). They will be more expensive, though.

Seems pretty much the aim of Brexit. I assumed that those voting for it would have been in favour of the limitation of options.