BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
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Coopster hit the nail on the head judging by your ill-tempered response.rick_chasey said:God you're both so thick.
What would we do without your witty comebacks?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Can you describe how it is not?briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Rick walked straight into that one. Best quote it for posteritycoopster_the_1st said:
You have just described the EU political class. Well done for finally getting it!rick_chasey said:
(A lesson in why centralised dictatorial decision making usually ends in disaster, fyi)
Can you describe how the EU is a centralised dictatorial decision-making organisation?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo_666 said:
Can you describe how it is not?briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Rick walked straight into that one. Best quote it for posteritycoopster_the_1st said:
You have just described the EU political class. Well done for finally getting it!rick_chasey said:
(A lesson in why centralised dictatorial decision making usually ends in disaster, fyi)
Can you describe how the EU is a centralised dictatorial decision-making organisation?
Yes, but as I asked first, you go first.0 -
It's just the contradictory things said to appease the folk over your way.tailwindhome said:Honestly though.
Is everything ok over there?
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the common consensus seems to be that it is a case of buyers remorse, maybe they read this thread and picked up on your answer to my question of can we junk the WA?TheBigBean said:I'm slightly disappointed, but not in the least surprised that there is no discussion of the actual issues or proposed legislation.
what do you see as the actual issues or proposed legislation0 -
Just as well to weed out the Deep State...
"The head of the Government legal department has quit over concerns that Downing Street is attempting to override sections of the Brexit divorce deal. Senior civil servant Sir Jonathan Jones is said to be “very unhappy” about the plans to overwrite parts of the Northern Ireland protocol through the Internal Market Bill. The Financial Times reports that the Permanent Secretary of the Government Legal Department has left his position due to a dispute with Downing Street, as crunch talks get underway."
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Exasperated statement ≠ witty comebackStevo_666 said:
Coopster hit the nail on the head judging by your ill-tempered response.rick_chasey said:God you're both so thick.
What would we do without your witty comebacks?0 -
It was discussed at length when the original 'deal' was struck, but surely even you can see that agreeing to an internationally binding agreement and then making public your intentions to ignore parts of it is probably not a good idea in the middle of a negotiation?TheBigBean said:I'm slightly disappointed, but not in the least surprised that there is no discussion of the actual issues or proposed legislation.
I'm disappointed you can't see that.
After all, it seems to have precipitated the Head of the gov't's legal department quitting.0 -
A distinct absence of dictators would be the obvious one.Stevo_666 said:
Can you describe how it is not?briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Rick walked straight into that one. Best quote it for posteritycoopster_the_1st said:
You have just described the EU political class. Well done for finally getting it!rick_chasey said:
(A lesson in why centralised dictatorial decision making usually ends in disaster, fyi)
Can you describe how the EU is a centralised dictatorial decision-making organisation?1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
So we have left the EU and its institutions but somehow the EU will involve the ECJ. I await their judgement on a country they have no jurisdiction overrjsterry said:
Aside from reinforcing the rest of the world's view of us as unreliable and in the grip of some sort of nervous breakdown, from what I've read this potentially ends in a long drawn out dispute with the EU over whether we have or haven't breached our obligations. Depending on what points the EU choose to go for this may involve the ECJ.TheBigBean said:I'm slightly disappointed, but not in the least surprised that there is no discussion of the actual issues or proposed legislation.
You are proving you don't understand what Brexit is about and what leaving means
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The first of quite a long list, hence my "Yes".rjsterry said:
Distinct lack of dictators wouldStevo_666 said:
Can you describe how it is not?briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Rick walked straight into that one. Best quote it for posteritycoopster_the_1st said:
You have just described the EU political class. Well done for finally getting it!rick_chasey said:
(A lesson in why centralised dictatorial decision making usually ends in disaster, fyi)
Can you describe how the EU is a centralised dictatorial decision-making organisation?
A distinct absence of dictators would be the obvious one.Stevo_666 said:
Can you describe how it is not?briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Rick walked straight into that one. Best quote it for posteritycoopster_the_1st said:
You have just described the EU political class. Well done for finally getting it!rick_chasey said:
(A lesson in why centralised dictatorial decision making usually ends in disaster, fyi)
Can you describe how the EU is a centralised dictatorial decision-making organisation?
But since Stevo is implying that the EU is a dictatorship, he needs to tell us why. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's interested in his evidence or reasoning.
As he said elsewhere: "Only asking questions...I want you to cure my ignorance, so tell me what you think."0 -
As ever, to get to the bottom of some things you have to read the agreement yourself.surrey_commuter said:
the common consensus seems to be that it is a case of buyers remorse, maybe they read this thread and picked up on your answer to my question of can we junk the WA?TheBigBean said:I'm slightly disappointed, but not in the least surprised that there is no discussion of the actual issues or proposed legislation.
what do you see as the actual issues or proposed legislation
It starts off by stating the following which is no doubt designed to appease Unionists.NOTING that nothing in this Protocol prevents the United Kingdom from ensuring unfettered market access for goods moving from Northern Ireland to the rest of the United Kingdom's internal market
But it goes on to say the following, so certainly does allow for export restrictions except only as required by international obligations which is conveniently not defined.
It then leads on to "best endeavours" to minimise stuff, and the Joint Committee constantly reviewing it.Nothing in this Protocol shall prevent the United Kingdom from ensuring unfettered market access for goods moving from Northern Ireland to other parts of the United Kingdom's internal market. Provisions of Union law made applicable by this Protocol which prohibit or restrict the exportation of goods shall only be applied to trade between Northern Ireland and other parts of the United Kingdom to the extent strictly required by any international obligations of the Union. The United Kingdom shall ensure full protection under international requirements and commitments that are relevant to the prohibitions and restrictions on the exportation of goods from the Union to third countries as set out in Union law.
3042.Having regard to Northern Ireland's integral place in the United Kingdom's internal market, the Union and the United Kingdom shall use their best endeavours to facilitate the trade between Northern Ireland and other parts of the United Kingdom, in accordance with applicable legislationand taking into account their respective regulatory regimes as well as the implementation thereof. The Joint Committee shall keep the application of this paragraph under constant review and shall adopt appropriate recommendations with a view to avoiding controls at the ports and airports of Northern Ireland to the extent possible.
The problem occurs if the Joint Committee can't agree, then it goes to arbitration for six months, so ideally it would already have already been agreed, or there would have been agreement to send it to arbitration.
The UK government's position is that in the absence of agreement, it will decide what needs an export form, what is state aid etc. The EU's position is opposite - everything will need an export form etc.
The solution is for the Joint Committee to crack on and agree some sensible procedures, but both sides blame the other. To suggest it has already been agreed is disingenuous.
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If it's so cut and dry, why has the head of legal for the UK gov't resigned over it, BB?
Because, bluntly, it's not.0 -
Another viper in the nest removed?rick_chasey said:If it's so cut and dry, why has the head of legal for the UK gov't resigned over it, BB?
Because, bluntly, it's not.
I'm very happy with the competence of the person who is Director of Legislative Affairs in No 100 -
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Fair enough. It's patently obvious that EU decision making is centralised - in the three main EU bodies of the European Parliament, European Council & European Commission.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Can you describe how it is not?briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Rick walked straight into that one. Best quote it for posteritycoopster_the_1st said:
You have just described the EU political class. Well done for finally getting it!rick_chasey said:
(A lesson in why centralised dictatorial decision making usually ends in disaster, fyi)
Can you describe how the EU is a centralised dictatorial decision-making organisation?
Yes, but as I asked first, you go first.
Many EU decisions are issued as directives, with which member states are obliged to comply and pass the regs into national law. even where they did not agree with them. That fits the bill as the dictating element.
Your turn..."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Brandon Lewis actually in parliament "Yes this does break international law in a very specific and limited way"
So they're deliberately breaking the law. Christ. Why bother having laws.0 -
Is it cos it’s a dictatorship?
80 seat majority and all.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
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Curious which parts of other existing agreements with the UK other countries want to ignore 'in specific and limited ways'.0
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Some of the EU leadership probably dictate letters to their secretaries, so they would be dictators in that sense.Stevo_666 said:
Fair enough. It's patently obvious that EU decision making is centralised - in the three main EU bodies of the European Parliament, European Council & European Commission.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Can you describe how it is not?briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Rick walked straight into that one. Best quote it for posteritycoopster_the_1st said:
You have just described the EU political class. Well done for finally getting it!rick_chasey said:
(A lesson in why centralised dictatorial decision making usually ends in disaster, fyi)
Can you describe how the EU is a centralised dictatorial decision-making organisation?
Yes, but as I asked first, you go first.
Many EU decisions are issued as directives, with which member states are obliged to comply and pass the regs into national law. even where they did not agree with them. That fits the bill as the dictating element.
Your turn...0 -
That's how any parliament works. Lots of people don't agree with the laws passed by our own.Stevo_666 said:
Fair enough. It's patently obvious that EU decision making is centralised - in the three main EU bodies of the European Parliament, European Council & European Commission.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Can you describe how it is not?briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Rick walked straight into that one. Best quote it for posteritycoopster_the_1st said:
You have just described the EU political class. Well done for finally getting it!rick_chasey said:
(A lesson in why centralised dictatorial decision making usually ends in disaster, fyi)
Can you describe how the EU is a centralised dictatorial decision-making organisation?
Yes, but as I asked first, you go first.
Many EU decisions are issued as directives, with which member states are obliged to comply and pass the regs into national law. even where they did not agree with them. That fits the bill as the dictating element.
Your turn...
Read the WA. The ECJ would still be involved in a dispute over certain parts of the NI Protocol. If you prefer to pretend this is not the case it's no skin off my nose.coopster_the_1st said:
So we have left the EU and its institutions but somehow the EU will involve the ECJ. I await their judgement on a country they have no jurisdiction overrjsterry said:
Aside from reinforcing the rest of the world's view of us as unreliable and in the grip of some sort of nervous breakdown, from what I've read this potentially ends in a long drawn out dispute with the EU over whether we have or haven't breached our obligations. Depending on what points the EU choose to go for this may involve the ECJ.TheBigBean said:I'm slightly disappointed, but not in the least surprised that there is no discussion of the actual issues or proposed legislation.
You are proving you don't understand what Brexit is about and what leaving means1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Stevo_666 said:
Fair enough. It's patently obvious that EU decision making is centralised - in the three main EU bodies of the European Parliament, European Council & European Commission.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Can you describe how it is not?briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Rick walked straight into that one. Best quote it for posteritycoopster_the_1st said:
You have just described the EU political class. Well done for finally getting it!rick_chasey said:
(A lesson in why centralised dictatorial decision making usually ends in disaster, fyi)
Can you describe how the EU is a centralised dictatorial decision-making organisation?
Yes, but as I asked first, you go first.
Many EU decisions are issued as directives, with which member states are obliged to comply and pass the regs into national law. even where they did not agree with them. That fits the bill as the dictating element.
Your turn...
So, any laws that Westminster passes, but, say, Scotland doesn't like, classes Westminster as a dictatorship? OK, but I think you're into redefining words Let me help you out with the definition from the Oxford English Dictionary:
"A system of government by the absolute rule of a single individual; a state ruled by a dictator."
Do I really need to illustrate why that is neither the case in the UK, or the EU? You might pick fault with the precise mechanics of the democratic mechanisms within the EU, but if you call them a dictatorship, then similar democratic faults in the UK would put them in the same category.
Can we vote in elections for EU and UK politicians? Yes. Do those people have the power both to appoint people to draft policy who aren't elected? Yes. Can the elected parliament dismiss the unelected officers. Yes. The EU Parliament can dismiss the Commission.
Can Parliament dismiss Cummings?
https://www.dw.com/en/what-are-the-powers-of-the-european-parliament/a-4295011#1 -
Personal insults! very good Rick, I think we can now see the level of your intelligence!rick_chasey said:God you're both so thick.
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Coopster! keep replying! its great!rick_chasey said:Stop replying to me Coopster.
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The UK gov't is literally saying it will break international law. In parliament.
Do you lot see this? Are you not seeing this?
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Yes, the libs won't like that.rick_chasey said:The UK gov't is literally saying it will break international law. In parliament.
Do you lot see this? Are you not seeing this?0 -
If you do that you lose all authority to enforce any international law.
It's absolutely ludicrous.
Where does it end, if the government feels it's not bound by law?
Why does the government refer to lawyers who intervene to literally stop the government breaking the law as 'activists'?0
