BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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Well this ongoing experiment to see how far from Conservatism the party can get and still have Stevo back them may be getting out of hand.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition1 -
straight out of the Trump/Bannon playbook, fire up your own supporters and enrage the libs. Bannon even advised doing it on a Friday so they could get out and marchkingstongraham said:
Yes, the libs won't like that.rick_chasey said:The UK gov't is literally saying it will break international law. In parliament.
Do you lot see this? Are you not seeing this?0 -
I fail to see this as a significant lurch downwards. If you value sovreignty above all else then it is the obvious next step. I think we will start leaving intl. bodies which don't bow at the knee to English exceptionalism.rick_chasey said:If you do that you lose all authority to enforce any international law.
It's absolutely ludicrous.
Where does it end, if the government feels it's not bound by law?
Why does the government refer to lawyers who intervene to literally stop the government breaking the law as 'activists'?
Interesting for you is that you are reliant on the true Conservatives to throw the socialist cuckoo out out of their nest which I am guessing will be when they see him as an electoral liability0 -
I thought it was all about trading with the rest of the world?surrey_commuter said:
I fail to see this as a significant lurch downwards. If you value sovreignty above all else then it is the obvious next step. I think we will start leaving intl. bodies which don't bow at the knee to English exceptionalism.rick_chasey said:If you do that you lose all authority to enforce any international law.
It's absolutely ludicrous.
Where does it end, if the government feels it's not bound by law?
Why does the government refer to lawyers who intervene to literally stop the government breaking the law as 'activists'?
Interesting for you is that you are reliant on the true Conservatives to throw the socialist cuckoo out out of their nest which I am guessing will be when they see him as an electoral liability
Why would anyone come to an agreement if the UK will just ignore it "in specific and deliberate ways"?
This is banana republic territory.0 -
Unfortunately you have to have a reasonable level of intelligence to properly judge whether others are thick and I'm not sure Rick has really understood this properly. One for the irony thread maybe?spatt77 said:
Personal insults! very good Rick, I think we can now see the level of your intelligence!rick_chasey said:God you're both so thick.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Quite!Stevo_666 said:
I'm not sure Rick has really understoofpd this properly. One for the irony thread maybe?spatt77 said:
Personal insults! very good Rick, I think we can now see the level of your intelligence!rick_chasey said:God you're both so thick.
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True, but it doesn't take away from my point about the EU. Not that it makes much difference to the UK any more.rjsterry said:
That's how any parliament works. Lots of people don't agree with the laws passed by our own.<Stevo_666 said:
Fair enough. It's patently obvious that EU decision making is centralised - in the three main EU bodies of the European Parliament, European Council & European Commission.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Can you describe how it is not?briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Rick walked straight into that one. Best quote it for posteritycoopster_the_1st said:
You have just described the EU political class. Well done for finally getting it!rick_chasey said:
(A lesson in why centralised dictatorial decision making usually ends in disaster, fyi)
Can you describe how the EU is a centralised dictatorial decision-making organisation?
Yes, but as I asked first, you go first.
Many EU decisions are issued as directives, with which member states are obliged to comply and pass the regs into national law. even where they did not agree with them. That fits the bill as the dictating element.
Your turn..."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
You're absolutely right in what you said, all you need to do is change the meaning of the word "dictator", and the EU is run by a dictator.Stevo_666 said:
True, but it doesn't take away from my point about the EU. Not that it makes much difference as we've left.rjsterry said:
That's how any parliament works. Lots of people don't agree with the laws passed by our own.<Stevo_666 said:
Fair enough. It's patently obvious that EU decision making is centralised - in the three main EU bodies of the European Parliament, European Council & European Commission.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Can you describe how it is not?briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Rick walked straight into that one. Best quote it for posteritycoopster_the_1st said:
You have just described the EU political class. Well done for finally getting it!rick_chasey said:
(A lesson in why centralised dictatorial decision making usually ends in disaster, fyi)
Can you describe how the EU is a centralised dictatorial decision-making organisation?
Yes, but as I asked first, you go first.
Many EU decisions are issued as directives, with which member states are obliged to comply and pass the regs into national law. even where they did not agree with them. That fits the bill as the dictating element.
Your turn...0 -
Come on, you can't expect them to abide by an agreement that was put in place by ... oh. Well, they signed it so long ago, it was ... ohrick_chasey said:
I thought it was all about trading with the rest of the world?surrey_commuter said:
I fail to see this as a significant lurch downwards. If you value sovreignty above all else then it is the obvious next step. I think we will start leaving intl. bodies which don't bow at the knee to English exceptionalism.rick_chasey said:If you do that you lose all authority to enforce any international law.
It's absolutely ludicrous.
Where does it end, if the government feels it's not bound by law?
Why does the government refer to lawyers who intervene to literally stop the government breaking the law as 'activists'?
Interesting for you is that you are reliant on the true Conservatives to throw the socialist cuckoo out out of their nest which I am guessing will be when they see him as an electoral liability
Why would anyone come to an agreement if the UK will just ignore it "in specific and deliberate ways"?
This is banana republic territory.
It's like a slow motion version of this Serbian president realising what he's signed to shut Trump up:
https://mobile.twitter.com/PaoloStefanini5/status/13022331490747924500 -
Quite.TheBigBean said:
It's just the contradictory things said to appease the folk over your way.tailwindhome said:Honestly though.
Is everything ok over there?
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
The EU have been equally, if not more out of order.kingstongraham said:
Come on, you can't expect them to abide by an agreement that was put in place by ... oh. Well, they signed it so long ago, it was ... ohrick_chasey said:
I thought it was all about trading with the rest of the world?surrey_commuter said:
I fail to see this as a significant lurch downwards. If you value sovreignty above all else then it is the obvious next step. I think we will start leaving intl. bodies which don't bow at the knee to English exceptionalism.rick_chasey said:If you do that you lose all authority to enforce any international law.
It's absolutely ludicrous.
Where does it end, if the government feels it's not bound by law?
Why does the government refer to lawyers who intervene to literally stop the government breaking the law as 'activists'?
Interesting for you is that you are reliant on the true Conservatives to throw the socialist cuckoo out out of their nest which I am guessing will be when they see him as an electoral liability
Why would anyone come to an agreement if the UK will just ignore it "in specific and deliberate ways"?
This is banana republic territory.
It's like a slow motion version of this Serbian president realising what he's signed to shut Trump up:
https://mobile.twitter.com/PaoloStefanini5/status/1302233149074792450
As bigbean has pointed out, they have ignored article 184
Article 16 gives the UK safeguards around NI.
What we are seeing is the UK moving forward. There are lots of remoaners that have made outlandish claims of impacts to the UK. The tide is now starting to go out and they are worried about being caught of swimming with no clothes.0 -
Oh I will.spatt77 said:
Coopster! keep replying! its great!rick_chasey said:Stop replying to me Coopster.
Someone has to call out his fake news posts.
Today he is in fake outrage mode
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So why did we sign it then?coopster_the_1st said:
The EU have been equally, if not more out of order.kingstongraham said:
Come on, you can't expect them to abide by an agreement that was put in place by ... oh. Well, they signed it so long ago, it was ... ohrick_chasey said:
I thought it was all about trading with the rest of the world?surrey_commuter said:
I fail to see this as a significant lurch downwards. If you value sovreignty above all else then it is the obvious next step. I think we will start leaving intl. bodies which don't bow at the knee to English exceptionalism.rick_chasey said:If you do that you lose all authority to enforce any international law.
It's absolutely ludicrous.
Where does it end, if the government feels it's not bound by law?
Why does the government refer to lawyers who intervene to literally stop the government breaking the law as 'activists'?
Interesting for you is that you are reliant on the true Conservatives to throw the socialist cuckoo out out of their nest which I am guessing will be when they see him as an electoral liability
Why would anyone come to an agreement if the UK will just ignore it "in specific and deliberate ways"?
This is banana republic territory.
It's like a slow motion version of this Serbian president realising what he's signed to shut Trump up:
https://mobile.twitter.com/PaoloStefanini5/status/1302233149074792450
As bigbean has pointed out, they have ignored article 184
Article 16 gives the UK safeguards around NI.
What we are seeing is the UK moving forward. There are lots of remoaners that have made outlandish claims of impacts to the UK. The tide is now starting to go out and they are worried about being caught of swimming with no clothes.0 -
You made a point?Stevo_666 said:
True, but it doesn't take away from my point about the EU. Not that it makes much difference to the UK any more.rjsterry said:
That's how any parliament works. Lots of people don't agree with the laws passed by our own.<Stevo_666 said:
Fair enough. It's patently obvious that EU decision making is centralised - in the three main EU bodies of the European Parliament, European Council & European Commission.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Can you describe how it is not?briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Rick walked straight into that one. Best quote it for posteritycoopster_the_1st said:
You have just described the EU political class. Well done for finally getting it!rick_chasey said:
(A lesson in why centralised dictatorial decision making usually ends in disaster, fyi)
Can you describe how the EU is a centralised dictatorial decision-making organisation?
Yes, but as I asked first, you go first.
Many EU decisions are issued as directives, with which member states are obliged to comply and pass the regs into national law. even where they did not agree with them. That fits the bill as the dictating element.
Your turn...1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Because we had these safeguards against EU duplicity, eg article 16kingstongraham said:
So why did we sign it then?coopster_the_1st said:
The EU have been equally, if not more out of order.kingstongraham said:
Come on, you can't expect them to abide by an agreement that was put in place by ... oh. Well, they signed it so long ago, it was ... ohrick_chasey said:
I thought it was all about trading with the rest of the world?surrey_commuter said:
I fail to see this as a significant lurch downwards. If you value sovreignty above all else then it is the obvious next step. I think we will start leaving intl. bodies which don't bow at the knee to English exceptionalism.rick_chasey said:If you do that you lose all authority to enforce any international law.
It's absolutely ludicrous.
Where does it end, if the government feels it's not bound by law?
Why does the government refer to lawyers who intervene to literally stop the government breaking the law as 'activists'?
Interesting for you is that you are reliant on the true Conservatives to throw the socialist cuckoo out out of their nest which I am guessing will be when they see him as an electoral liability
Why would anyone come to an agreement if the UK will just ignore it "in specific and deliberate ways"?
This is banana republic territory.
It's like a slow motion version of this Serbian president realising what he's signed to shut Trump up:
https://mobile.twitter.com/PaoloStefanini5/status/1302233149074792450
As bigbean has pointed out, they have ignored article 184
Article 16 gives the UK safeguards around NI.
What we are seeing is the UK moving forward. There are lots of remoaners that have made outlandish claims of impacts to the UK. The tide is now starting to go out and they are worried about being caught of swimming with no clothes.
No harm in now looking out for the UK as a whole.
The more I read about this government lawyer resignation, the more it looks like someone who is pro-EU and has been using his position to stop us from leaving eg another viper in the nest0 -
More likely someone who knows the government is about to break the law, and is a lawyer. They said in parliament they will be breaking international law.coopster_the_1st said:
Because we had these safeguards against EU duplicity, eg article 16kingstongraham said:
So why did we sign it then?coopster_the_1st said:
The EU have been equally, if not more out of order.kingstongraham said:
Come on, you can't expect them to abide by an agreement that was put in place by ... oh. Well, they signed it so long ago, it was ... ohrick_chasey said:
I thought it was all about trading with the rest of the world?surrey_commuter said:
I fail to see this as a significant lurch downwards. If you value sovreignty above all else then it is the obvious next step. I think we will start leaving intl. bodies which don't bow at the knee to English exceptionalism.rick_chasey said:If you do that you lose all authority to enforce any international law.
It's absolutely ludicrous.
Where does it end, if the government feels it's not bound by law?
Why does the government refer to lawyers who intervene to literally stop the government breaking the law as 'activists'?
Interesting for you is that you are reliant on the true Conservatives to throw the socialist cuckoo out out of their nest which I am guessing will be when they see him as an electoral liability
Why would anyone come to an agreement if the UK will just ignore it "in specific and deliberate ways"?
This is banana republic territory.
It's like a slow motion version of this Serbian president realising what he's signed to shut Trump up:
https://mobile.twitter.com/PaoloStefanini5/status/1302233149074792450
As bigbean has pointed out, they have ignored article 184
Article 16 gives the UK safeguards around NI.
What we are seeing is the UK moving forward. There are lots of remoaners that have made outlandish claims of impacts to the UK. The tide is now starting to go out and they are worried about being caught of swimming with no clothes.
No harm in now looking out for the UK as a whole.
The more I read about this government lawyer resignation, the more it looks like someone who is pro-EU and has been using his position to stop us from leaving eg another viper in the nest0 -
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Meanwhile some actual dictators are pi**ing themselves laughing at Brandon Lewis.kingstongraham said:
You're absolutely right in what you said, all you need to do is change the meaning of the word "dictator", and the EU is run by a dictator.Stevo_666 said:
True, but it doesn't take away from my point about the EU. Not that it makes much difference as we've left.rjsterry said:
That's how any parliament works. Lots of people don't agree with the laws passed by our own.<Stevo_666 said:
Fair enough. It's patently obvious that EU decision making is centralised - in the three main EU bodies of the European Parliament, European Council & European Commission.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Can you describe how it is not?briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Rick walked straight into that one. Best quote it for posteritycoopster_the_1st said:
You have just described the EU political class. Well done for finally getting it!rick_chasey said:
(A lesson in why centralised dictatorial decision making usually ends in disaster, fyi)
Can you describe how the EU is a centralised dictatorial decision-making organisation?
Yes, but as I asked first, you go first.
Many EU decisions are issued as directives, with which member states are obliged to comply and pass the regs into national law. even where they did not agree with them. That fits the bill as the dictating element.
Your turn...1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
rjsterry said:
You made a point?Stevo_666 said:
True, but it doesn't take away from my point about the EU. Not that it makes much difference to the UK any more.rjsterry said:
That's how any parliament works. Lots of people don't agree with the laws passed by our own.<Stevo_666 said:
Fair enough. It's patently obvious that EU decision making is centralised - in the three main EU bodies of the European Parliament, European Council & European Commission.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Can you describe how it is not?briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Rick walked straight into that one. Best quote it for posteritycoopster_the_1st said:
You have just described the EU political class. Well done for finally getting it!rick_chasey said:
(A lesson in why centralised dictatorial decision making usually ends in disaster, fyi)
Can you describe how the EU is a centralised dictatorial decision-making organisation?
Yes, but as I asked first, you go first.
Many EU decisions are issued as directives, with which member states are obliged to comply and pass the regs into national law. even where they did not agree with them. That fits the bill as the dictating element.
Your turn...
I think Stevo's into the "Whatevs" part of rational argument. Not sure if that was covered by ancient philosophers.0 -
As I said to RJS, you're not disagreeing with my points. Your reply is a long bit of whataboutery (same for RJS, surprise surprisebriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Fair enough. It's patently obvious that EU decision making is centralised - in the three main EU bodies of the European Parliament, European Council & European Commission.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Can you describe how it is not?briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Rick walked straight into that one. Best quote it for posteritycoopster_the_1st said:
You have just described the EU political class. Well done for finally getting it!rick_chasey said:
(A lesson in why centralised dictatorial decision making usually ends in disaster, fyi)
Can you describe how the EU is a centralised dictatorial decision-making organisation?
Yes, but as I asked first, you go first.
Many EU decisions are issued as directives, with which member states are obliged to comply and pass the regs into national law. even where they did not agree with them. That fits the bill as the dictating element.
Your turn...
So, any laws that Westminster passes, but, say, Scotland doesn't like, classes Westminster as a dictatorship? OK, but I think you're into redefining words Let me help you out with the definition from the Oxford English Dictionary:
"A system of government by the absolute rule of a single individual; a state ruled by a dictator."
Do I really need to illustrate why that is neither the case in the UK, or the EU? You might pick fault with the precise mechanics of the democratic mechanisms within the EU, but if you call them a dictatorship, then similar democratic faults in the UK would put them in the same category.
Can we vote in elections for EU and UK politicians? Yes. Do those people have the power both to appoint people to draft policy who aren't elected? Yes. Can the elected parliament dismiss the unelected officers. Yes. The EU Parliament can dismiss the Commission.
Can Parliament dismiss Cummings?
https://www.dw.com/en/what-are-the-powers-of-the-european-parliament/a-4295011# )
Nor do you rebutt the centralised point in any way.
And as I said to RJS, bit late really as we've left already."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
The central point was that the EU is led by a dictator, wasn't it?Stevo_666 said:
As I said to RJS, you're not disagreeing with my points. Your reply is a long bit of whataboutery (same for RJS, surprise surprisebriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Fair enough. It's patently obvious that EU decision making is centralised - in the three main EU bodies of the European Parliament, European Council & European Commission.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Can you describe how it is not?briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Rick walked straight into that one. Best quote it for posteritycoopster_the_1st said:
You have just described the EU political class. Well done for finally getting it!rick_chasey said:
(A lesson in why centralised dictatorial decision making usually ends in disaster, fyi)
Can you describe how the EU is a centralised dictatorial decision-making organisation?
Yes, but as I asked first, you go first.
Many EU decisions are issued as directives, with which member states are obliged to comply and pass the regs into national law. even where they did not agree with them. That fits the bill as the dictating element.
Your turn...
So, any laws that Westminster passes, but, say, Scotland doesn't like, classes Westminster as a dictatorship? OK, but I think you're into redefining words Let me help you out with the definition from the Oxford English Dictionary:
"A system of government by the absolute rule of a single individual; a state ruled by a dictator."
Do I really need to illustrate why that is neither the case in the UK, or the EU? You might pick fault with the precise mechanics of the democratic mechanisms within the EU, but if you call them a dictatorship, then similar democratic faults in the UK would put them in the same category.
Can we vote in elections for EU and UK politicians? Yes. Do those people have the power both to appoint people to draft policy who aren't elected? Yes. Can the elected parliament dismiss the unelected officers. Yes. The EU Parliament can dismiss the Commission.
Can Parliament dismiss Cummings?
https://www.dw.com/en/what-are-the-powers-of-the-european-parliament/a-4295011# )
Nor do you rebutt the centralised point in any way.
And as I said to RJS, bit late really as we've left already.0 -
I thought the centralised point was more important myself.kingstongraham said:
The central point was that the EU is led by a dictator, wasn't it?Stevo_666 said:
As I said to RJS, you're not disagreeing with my points. Your reply is a long bit of whataboutery (same for RJS, surprise surprisebriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Fair enough. It's patently obvious that EU decision making is centralised - in the three main EU bodies of the European Parliament, European Council & European Commission.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Can you describe how it is not?briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Rick walked straight into that one. Best quote it for posteritycoopster_the_1st said:
You have just described the EU political class. Well done for finally getting it!rick_chasey said:
(A lesson in why centralised dictatorial decision making usually ends in disaster, fyi)
Can you describe how the EU is a centralised dictatorial decision-making organisation?
Yes, but as I asked first, you go first.
Many EU decisions are issued as directives, with which member states are obliged to comply and pass the regs into national law. even where they did not agree with them. That fits the bill as the dictating element.
Your turn...
So, any laws that Westminster passes, but, say, Scotland doesn't like, classes Westminster as a dictatorship? OK, but I think you're into redefining words Let me help you out with the definition from the Oxford English Dictionary:
"A system of government by the absolute rule of a single individual; a state ruled by a dictator."
Do I really need to illustrate why that is neither the case in the UK, or the EU? You might pick fault with the precise mechanics of the democratic mechanisms within the EU, but if you call them a dictatorship, then similar democratic faults in the UK would put them in the same category.
Can we vote in elections for EU and UK politicians? Yes. Do those people have the power both to appoint people to draft policy who aren't elected? Yes. Can the elected parliament dismiss the unelected officers. Yes. The EU Parliament can dismiss the Commission.
Can Parliament dismiss Cummings?
https://www.dw.com/en/what-are-the-powers-of-the-european-parliament/a-4295011# )
Nor do you rebutt the centralised point in any way.
And as I said to RJS, bit late really as we've left already."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Oh, gotcha. Obviously it's centralised in the decisions it makes.Stevo_666 said:
I thought the centralised point was more important myself.kingstongraham said:
The central point was that the EU is led by a dictator, wasn't it?Stevo_666 said:
As I said to RJS, you're not disagreeing with my points. Your reply is a long bit of whataboutery (same for RJS, surprise surprisebriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Fair enough. It's patently obvious that EU decision making is centralised - in the three main EU bodies of the European Parliament, European Council & European Commission.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Can you describe how it is not?briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Rick walked straight into that one. Best quote it for posteritycoopster_the_1st said:
You have just described the EU political class. Well done for finally getting it!rick_chasey said:
(A lesson in why centralised dictatorial decision making usually ends in disaster, fyi)
Can you describe how the EU is a centralised dictatorial decision-making organisation?
Yes, but as I asked first, you go first.
Many EU decisions are issued as directives, with which member states are obliged to comply and pass the regs into national law. even where they did not agree with them. That fits the bill as the dictating element.
Your turn...
So, any laws that Westminster passes, but, say, Scotland doesn't like, classes Westminster as a dictatorship? OK, but I think you're into redefining words Let me help you out with the definition from the Oxford English Dictionary:
"A system of government by the absolute rule of a single individual; a state ruled by a dictator."
Do I really need to illustrate why that is neither the case in the UK, or the EU? You might pick fault with the precise mechanics of the democratic mechanisms within the EU, but if you call them a dictatorship, then similar democratic faults in the UK would put them in the same category.
Can we vote in elections for EU and UK politicians? Yes. Do those people have the power both to appoint people to draft policy who aren't elected? Yes. Can the elected parliament dismiss the unelected officers. Yes. The EU Parliament can dismiss the Commission.
Can Parliament dismiss Cummings?
https://www.dw.com/en/what-are-the-powers-of-the-european-parliament/a-4295011# )
Nor do you rebutt the centralised point in any way.
And as I said to RJS, bit late really as we've left already.
I could say cats have four legs and can levitate, wouldn't be true even with the first half being correct.0 -
Stevo_666 said:
As I said to RJS, you're not disagreeing with my points. Your reply is a long bit of whataboutery (same for RJS, surprise surprisebriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Fair enough. It's patently obvious that EU decision making is centralised - in the three main EU bodies of the European Parliament, European Council & European Commission.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Can you describe how it is not?briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Rick walked straight into that one. Best quote it for posteritycoopster_the_1st said:
You have just described the EU political class. Well done for finally getting it!rick_chasey said:
(A lesson in why centralised dictatorial decision making usually ends in disaster, fyi)
Can you describe how the EU is a centralised dictatorial decision-making organisation?
Yes, but as I asked first, you go first.
Many EU decisions are issued as directives, with which member states are obliged to comply and pass the regs into national law. even where they did not agree with them. That fits the bill as the dictating element.
Your turn...
So, any laws that Westminster passes, but, say, Scotland doesn't like, classes Westminster as a dictatorship? OK, but I think you're into redefining words Let me help you out with the definition from the Oxford English Dictionary:
"A system of government by the absolute rule of a single individual; a state ruled by a dictator."
Do I really need to illustrate why that is neither the case in the UK, or the EU? You might pick fault with the precise mechanics of the democratic mechanisms within the EU, but if you call them a dictatorship, then similar democratic faults in the UK would put them in the same category.
Can we vote in elections for EU and UK politicians? Yes. Do those people have the power both to appoint people to draft policy who aren't elected? Yes. Can the elected parliament dismiss the unelected officers. Yes. The EU Parliament can dismiss the Commission.
Can Parliament dismiss Cummings?
https://www.dw.com/en/what-are-the-powers-of-the-european-parliament/a-4295011# )
Nor do you rebutt the centralised point in any way.
And as I said to RJS, bit late really as we've left already.
This is Trump-level logic. Congratulations, Stevo. You're passing into the "words mean what I want them to mean" universe. Kinda makes logical discussion impossible.0 -
Can you point me to the logical discussion? It sounds like a nice idea.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
As I said to RJS, you're not disagreeing with my points. Your reply is a long bit of whataboutery (same for RJS, surprise surprisebriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Fair enough. It's patently obvious that EU decision making is centralised - in the three main EU bodies of the European Parliament, European Council & European Commission.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Can you describe how it is not?briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Rick walked straight into that one. Best quote it for posteritycoopster_the_1st said:
You have just described the EU political class. Well done for finally getting it!rick_chasey said:
(A lesson in why centralised dictatorial decision making usually ends in disaster, fyi)
Can you describe how the EU is a centralised dictatorial decision-making organisation?
Yes, but as I asked first, you go first.
Many EU decisions are issued as directives, with which member states are obliged to comply and pass the regs into national law. even where they did not agree with them. That fits the bill as the dictating element.
Your turn...
So, any laws that Westminster passes, but, say, Scotland doesn't like, classes Westminster as a dictatorship? OK, but I think you're into redefining words Let me help you out with the definition from the Oxford English Dictionary:
"A system of government by the absolute rule of a single individual; a state ruled by a dictator."
Do I really need to illustrate why that is neither the case in the UK, or the EU? You might pick fault with the precise mechanics of the democratic mechanisms within the EU, but if you call them a dictatorship, then similar democratic faults in the UK would put them in the same category.
Can we vote in elections for EU and UK politicians? Yes. Do those people have the power both to appoint people to draft policy who aren't elected? Yes. Can the elected parliament dismiss the unelected officers. Yes. The EU Parliament can dismiss the Commission.
Can Parliament dismiss Cummings?
https://www.dw.com/en/what-are-the-powers-of-the-european-parliament/a-4295011# )
Nor do you rebutt the centralised point in any way.
And as I said to RJS, bit late really as we've left already.
This is Trump-level logic. Congratulations, Stevo. You're passing into the "words mean what I want them to mean" universe. Kinda makes logical discussion impossible.0 -
TheBigBean said:
Can you point me to the logical discussion? It sounds like a nice idea.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
As I said to RJS, you're not disagreeing with my points. Your reply is a long bit of whataboutery (same for RJS, surprise surprisebriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Fair enough. It's patently obvious that EU decision making is centralised - in the three main EU bodies of the European Parliament, European Council & European Commission.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Can you describe how it is not?briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Rick walked straight into that one. Best quote it for posteritycoopster_the_1st said:
You have just described the EU political class. Well done for finally getting it!rick_chasey said:
(A lesson in why centralised dictatorial decision making usually ends in disaster, fyi)
Can you describe how the EU is a centralised dictatorial decision-making organisation?
Yes, but as I asked first, you go first.
Many EU decisions are issued as directives, with which member states are obliged to comply and pass the regs into national law. even where they did not agree with them. That fits the bill as the dictating element.
Your turn...
So, any laws that Westminster passes, but, say, Scotland doesn't like, classes Westminster as a dictatorship? OK, but I think you're into redefining words Let me help you out with the definition from the Oxford English Dictionary:
"A system of government by the absolute rule of a single individual; a state ruled by a dictator."
Do I really need to illustrate why that is neither the case in the UK, or the EU? You might pick fault with the precise mechanics of the democratic mechanisms within the EU, but if you call them a dictatorship, then similar democratic faults in the UK would put them in the same category.
Can we vote in elections for EU and UK politicians? Yes. Do those people have the power both to appoint people to draft policy who aren't elected? Yes. Can the elected parliament dismiss the unelected officers. Yes. The EU Parliament can dismiss the Commission.
Can Parliament dismiss Cummings?
https://www.dw.com/en/what-are-the-powers-of-the-european-parliament/a-4295011# )
Nor do you rebutt the centralised point in any way.
And as I said to RJS, bit late really as we've left already.
This is Trump-level logic. Congratulations, Stevo. You're passing into the "words mean what I want them to mean" universe. Kinda makes logical discussion impossible.
Stevo implied the EU was a dictatorship. I asked him to give evidence.
He said it's centralised. I pointed him to the OED of a dictatorship, and the similarities of UK and EU democratic structures: not perfect, but no democracies are.
Stevo says I'm agreeing with him, and his 'centralisation' is the main point, but it doesn't matter anyway, as we're leaving.
I'm accused of whataboutery.
I think that's a fair summary. Still no evidence of dictatorship, unless words mean just whatever people want them to mean.0 -
These are all answers to other questions. This was nothing to do with leaving or otherwise. The allegation was that the EU was analogous to a Stalinist dictatorship. God knows why you are bothering to support such an absurd argument, but you suggested that because members have to follow the laws passed by the Parliament, this is like a dictatorship. States have democratic input into the formulation of those laws, and always have the option to leave if they find the EU laws intolerable, so not like a dictatorship at all.Stevo_666 said:
As I said to RJS, you're not disagreeing with my points. Your reply is a long bit of whataboutery (same for RJS, surprise surprisebriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Fair enough. It's patently obvious that EU decision making is centralised - in the three main EU bodies of the European Parliament, European Council & European Commission.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Can you describe how it is not?briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Rick walked straight into that one. Best quote it for posteritycoopster_the_1st said:
You have just described the EU political class. Well done for finally getting it!rick_chasey said:
(A lesson in why centralised dictatorial decision making usually ends in disaster, fyi)
Can you describe how the EU is a centralised dictatorial decision-making organisation?
Yes, but as I asked first, you go first.
Many EU decisions are issued as directives, with which member states are obliged to comply and pass the regs into national law. even where they did not agree with them. That fits the bill as the dictating element.
Your turn...
So, any laws that Westminster passes, but, say, Scotland doesn't like, classes Westminster as a dictatorship? OK, but I think you're into redefining words Let me help you out with the definition from the Oxford English Dictionary:
"A system of government by the absolute rule of a single individual; a state ruled by a dictator."
Do I really need to illustrate why that is neither the case in the UK, or the EU? You might pick fault with the precise mechanics of the democratic mechanisms within the EU, but if you call them a dictatorship, then similar democratic faults in the UK would put them in the same category.
Can we vote in elections for EU and UK politicians? Yes. Do those people have the power both to appoint people to draft policy who aren't elected? Yes. Can the elected parliament dismiss the unelected officers. Yes. The EU Parliament can dismiss the Commission.
Can Parliament dismiss Cummings?
https://www.dw.com/en/what-are-the-powers-of-the-european-parliament/a-4295011# )
Nor do you rebutt the centralised point in any way.
And as I said to RJS, bit late really as we've left already.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I meant on the subject of Brexit.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
Can you point me to the logical discussion? It sounds like a nice idea.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
As I said to RJS, you're not disagreeing with my points. Your reply is a long bit of whataboutery (same for RJS, surprise surprisebriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Fair enough. It's patently obvious that EU decision making is centralised - in the three main EU bodies of the European Parliament, European Council & European Commission.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Can you describe how it is not?briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Rick walked straight into that one. Best quote it for posteritycoopster_the_1st said:
You have just described the EU political class. Well done for finally getting it!rick_chasey said:
(A lesson in why centralised dictatorial decision making usually ends in disaster, fyi)
Can you describe how the EU is a centralised dictatorial decision-making organisation?
Yes, but as I asked first, you go first.
Many EU decisions are issued as directives, with which member states are obliged to comply and pass the regs into national law. even where they did not agree with them. That fits the bill as the dictating element.
Your turn...
So, any laws that Westminster passes, but, say, Scotland doesn't like, classes Westminster as a dictatorship? OK, but I think you're into redefining words Let me help you out with the definition from the Oxford English Dictionary:
"A system of government by the absolute rule of a single individual; a state ruled by a dictator."
Do I really need to illustrate why that is neither the case in the UK, or the EU? You might pick fault with the precise mechanics of the democratic mechanisms within the EU, but if you call them a dictatorship, then similar democratic faults in the UK would put them in the same category.
Can we vote in elections for EU and UK politicians? Yes. Do those people have the power both to appoint people to draft policy who aren't elected? Yes. Can the elected parliament dismiss the unelected officers. Yes. The EU Parliament can dismiss the Commission.
Can Parliament dismiss Cummings?
https://www.dw.com/en/what-are-the-powers-of-the-european-parliament/a-4295011# )
Nor do you rebutt the centralised point in any way.
And as I said to RJS, bit late really as we've left already.
This is Trump-level logic. Congratulations, Stevo. You're passing into the "words mean what I want them to mean" universe. Kinda makes logical discussion impossible.
Stevo implied the EU was a dictatorship. I asked him to give evidence.
He said it's centralised. I pointed him to the OED of a dictatorship, and the similarities of UK and EU democratic structures: not perfect, but no democracies are.
Stevo says I'm agreeing with him, and his 'centralisation' is the main point, but it doesn't matter anyway, as we're leaving.
I'm accused of whataboutery.
I think that's a fair summary. Still no evidence of dictatorship, unless words mean just whatever people want them to mean.0 -
Which bit in particular?TheBigBean said:
I meant on the subject of Brexit.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
Can you point me to the logical discussion? It sounds like a nice idea.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
As I said to RJS, you're not disagreeing with my points. Your reply is a long bit of whataboutery (same for RJS, surprise surprisebriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Fair enough. It's patently obvious that EU decision making is centralised - in the three main EU bodies of the European Parliament, European Council & European Commission.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Can you describe how it is not?briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Rick walked straight into that one. Best quote it for posteritycoopster_the_1st said:
You have just described the EU political class. Well done for finally getting it!rick_chasey said:
(A lesson in why centralised dictatorial decision making usually ends in disaster, fyi)
Can you describe how the EU is a centralised dictatorial decision-making organisation?
Yes, but as I asked first, you go first.
Many EU decisions are issued as directives, with which member states are obliged to comply and pass the regs into national law. even where they did not agree with them. That fits the bill as the dictating element.
Your turn...
So, any laws that Westminster passes, but, say, Scotland doesn't like, classes Westminster as a dictatorship? OK, but I think you're into redefining words Let me help you out with the definition from the Oxford English Dictionary:
"A system of government by the absolute rule of a single individual; a state ruled by a dictator."
Do I really need to illustrate why that is neither the case in the UK, or the EU? You might pick fault with the precise mechanics of the democratic mechanisms within the EU, but if you call them a dictatorship, then similar democratic faults in the UK would put them in the same category.
Can we vote in elections for EU and UK politicians? Yes. Do those people have the power both to appoint people to draft policy who aren't elected? Yes. Can the elected parliament dismiss the unelected officers. Yes. The EU Parliament can dismiss the Commission.
Can Parliament dismiss Cummings?
https://www.dw.com/en/what-are-the-powers-of-the-european-parliament/a-4295011# )
Nor do you rebutt the centralised point in any way.
And as I said to RJS, bit late really as we've left already.
This is Trump-level logic. Congratulations, Stevo. You're passing into the "words mean what I want them to mean" universe. Kinda makes logical discussion impossible.
Stevo implied the EU was a dictatorship. I asked him to give evidence.
He said it's centralised. I pointed him to the OED of a dictatorship, and the similarities of UK and EU democratic structures: not perfect, but no democracies are.
Stevo says I'm agreeing with him, and his 'centralisation' is the main point, but it doesn't matter anyway, as we're leaving.
I'm accused of whataboutery.
I think that's a fair summary. Still no evidence of dictatorship, unless words mean just whatever people want them to mean.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Not really. It seem that you just don't like getting called out for whataboutery.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
As I said to RJS, you're not disagreeing with my points. Your reply is a long bit of whataboutery (same for RJS, surprise surprisebriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Fair enough. It's patently obvious that EU decision making is centralised - in the three main EU bodies of the European Parliament, European Council & European Commission.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Can you describe how it is not?briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Rick walked straight into that one. Best quote it for posteritycoopster_the_1st said:
You have just described the EU political class. Well done for finally getting it!rick_chasey said:
(A lesson in why centralised dictatorial decision making usually ends in disaster, fyi)
Can you describe how the EU is a centralised dictatorial decision-making organisation?
Yes, but as I asked first, you go first.
Many EU decisions are issued as directives, with which member states are obliged to comply and pass the regs into national law. even where they did not agree with them. That fits the bill as the dictating element.
Your turn...
So, any laws that Westminster passes, but, say, Scotland doesn't like, classes Westminster as a dictatorship? OK, but I think you're into redefining words Let me help you out with the definition from the Oxford English Dictionary:
"A system of government by the absolute rule of a single individual; a state ruled by a dictator."
Do I really need to illustrate why that is neither the case in the UK, or the EU? You might pick fault with the precise mechanics of the democratic mechanisms within the EU, but if you call them a dictatorship, then similar democratic faults in the UK would put them in the same category.
Can we vote in elections for EU and UK politicians? Yes. Do those people have the power both to appoint people to draft policy who aren't elected? Yes. Can the elected parliament dismiss the unelected officers. Yes. The EU Parliament can dismiss the Commission.
Can Parliament dismiss Cummings?
https://www.dw.com/en/what-are-the-powers-of-the-european-parliament/a-4295011# )
Nor do you rebutt the centralised point in any way.
And as I said to RJS, bit late really as we've left already.
This is Trump-level logic. Congratulations, Stevo. You're passing into the "words mean what I want them to mean" universe. Kinda makes logical discussion impossible."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
