BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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A question for those adamant that unskilled labour from the EU should be allowed - why not the rest of the word as well?1
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Spread over an organisation, I think it's been proven beyond much doubt that diversity of thought is additive to the whole business profitability; decision taking; culture, blah blah. If everyone in the firm only hired who they knew already, I doubt you'd achieve that.
At a leadership and adviser level the challenges to achieve diversity of thought are particularly acute as the number of people to spread the diversity around is rather small.
I get that knowing someone reduces the risk of a hire substantially, but a low risk high is not the same as hiring the best person for the job.
Anyway, the civil service recruitment process is one of the most highly engineered long-winded processes I've ever seen and to see a person so critical of that make a balls up of his first hire is rather delicious if nothing else.
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Who's "adamant"? I don't think the care or farming sectors are fussed where their staff come from. They just need a workforce willing to do the job at wages that make the business viable.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I've been quite consistent on that. In fact, I think I challenged you when you argued the opposite; that because ROW isn't afforded the same privileges in the UK as EU citizens, you were comfortable reducing the EU citizen privileges....TheBigBean said:A question for those adamant that unskilled labour from the EU should be allowed - why not the rest of the word as well?
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I am not sure I see link.rick_chasey said:
I've been quite consistent on that. In fact, I think I challenged you when you argued the opposite; that because ROW isn't afforded the same privileges in the UK as EU citizens, you were comfortable reducing the EU citizen privileges....TheBigBean said:A question for those adamant that unskilled labour from the EU should be allowed - why not the rest of the word as well?
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For a man so keen to champion science, he seems unable to distinguish the real thing from junk.Jeremy.89 said:No discussion around Cummings latest hire? For a man so keen on super forecasting he seems completely unable to predict the public reaction to hiring someone linked to eugenics.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
So the Greeks have waded in and demanded the Elgin Marbles back, a nice illustration of the disadvantage of trying to reduce harmony between the EU27, in that you just end up giving each nation carte blanche to chuck in their own parochial challenges.0
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That's not a new request. The bit added into the EU position is to stop London becoming a market for nicked antiquities on their doorstep. Seems pretty reasonable to me.rick_chasey said:So the Greeks have waded in and demanded the Elgin Marbles back, a nice illustration of the disadvantage of trying to reduce harmony between the EU27, in that you just end up giving each nation carte blanche to chuck in their own parochial challenges.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
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This is a odd view from the EU when all the remoaners were saying the EU holds all the cards once the UK leaves.Stevo_666 said:
Clearly the EU are worried about us out-competing them. I wonder why?rjsterry said:
Agreed. General consensus seems to be that statements about wanting to diverge should be taken at face value. "Australia style" non-deal here we come.rick_chasey said:The problem as I see it is the closer the U.K. gets to a “fully divergent from the EU” position, with the associated friction, the smaller the difference between that and failing to agree to any deal.
I’m not convinced this U.K. govt will necessarily fold and increasingly the EU has a priority of not having a competitive neighbour.
Neither helps them get to a mutually beneficial compromise.
Clearly this was never the case
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Dmitry Grozoubinski
@DmitryOpines
Who is this FOR?
No. 10 knows what the EU meant with these slides. The EU knows what they meant. It's not complicated.
The campaign is over. Government has a huge majority. There is no opposition.
Why continue debasing the discourse to harvest retweets from UK MAGA-hats?
Each step on the ladder represents a TYPE of EU relationship, not a commitment to copy paste an existing treaty.
EU Membership
EFTA Partial SM
Swiss Piecemeal SM
Ukraine AA
Turkey Partial CU
Free Trade Agreement
Each step required individual, bespoke negotiations. Same as now.
The UK wants more access to the EU market than Canada received, and is a closer and larger trading partner (so more of a potential threat to EU sectors).
Ergo, the EU is seeking more LPF.
By all means tell them to fuck off or make a counter offer, but stop... whatever this is.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Here's Peter Foster on why the no.10 tweet using said diagram was wide of the markStevo_666 said:
Hard to see why the EU has U-turned on this unless they previously thought we that would never go for a Canada style deal and now that we are, they are worried about us out-competing them.TheBigBean said:Barnier has changed his mind. Canada deal is no longer available
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51549662
A reminder
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The UK can have the access they want to the EU market or the ability to regulate as they see fit to boost their economy.coopster_the_1st said:
This is a odd view from the EU when all the remoaners were saying the EU holds all the cards once the UK leaves.Stevo_666 said:
Clearly the EU are worried about us out-competing them. I wonder why?rjsterry said:
Agreed. General consensus seems to be that statements about wanting to diverge should be taken at face value. "Australia style" non-deal here we come.rick_chasey said:The problem as I see it is the closer the U.K. gets to a “fully divergent from the EU” position, with the associated friction, the smaller the difference between that and failing to agree to any deal.
I’m not convinced this U.K. govt will necessarily fold and increasingly the EU has a priority of not having a competitive neighbour.
Neither helps them get to a mutually beneficial compromise.
Clearly this was never the case
The EU aren't stupid enough to allow a major competitor both.
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
I don't find these arguments for the defence to be particularly persuasive. Barnier was playing politics, as always, (with the previous slide) and its caught up with him. It's one of the problems of not changing the lead negotiator.0
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Not sure if Stevo or Coopster have UK MAGA hats, but the message seems to have been received by them both.tailwindhome said:Dmitry Grozoubinski
@DmitryOpines
Who is this FOR?
No. 10 knows what the EU meant with these slides. The EU knows what they meant. It's not complicated.
The campaign is over. Government has a huge majority. There is no opposition.
Why continue debasing the discourse to harvest retweets from UK MAGA-hats?
Each step on the ladder represents a TYPE of EU relationship, not a commitment to copy paste an existing treaty.
EU Membership
EFTA Partial SM
Swiss Piecemeal SM
Ukraine AA
Turkey Partial CU
Free Trade Agreement
Each step required individual, bespoke negotiations. Same as now.
The UK wants more access to the EU market than Canada received, and is a closer and larger trading partner (so more of a potential threat to EU sectors).
Ergo, the EU is seeking more LPF.
By all means tell them to censored off or make a counter offer, but stop... whatever this is.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
For clarity that is United Kingdom Making America Great Again hats? A niche market I would have thought.0
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Are you now confirming the EU are protectionist and not pro-trade?tailwindhome said:
The UK can have the access they want to the EU market or the ability to regulate as they see fit to boost their economy.coopster_the_1st said:
This is a odd view from the EU when all the remoaners were saying the EU holds all the cards once the UK leaves.Stevo_666 said:
Clearly the EU are worried about us out-competing them. I wonder why?rjsterry said:
Agreed. General consensus seems to be that statements about wanting to diverge should be taken at face value. "Australia style" non-deal here we come.rick_chasey said:The problem as I see it is the closer the U.K. gets to a “fully divergent from the EU” position, with the associated friction, the smaller the difference between that and failing to agree to any deal.
I’m not convinced this U.K. govt will necessarily fold and increasingly the EU has a priority of not having a competitive neighbour.
Neither helps them get to a mutually beneficial compromise.
Clearly this was never the case
The EU aren't stupid enough to allow a major competitor both.0 -
The UK has been fairly clear for a while that the goal is the best access possible whilst being able to regulate itself.tailwindhome said:
The UK can have the access they want to the EU market or the ability to regulate as they see fit to boost their economy.coopster_the_1st said:
This is a odd view from the EU when all the remoaners were saying the EU holds all the cards once the UK leaves.Stevo_666 said:
Clearly the EU are worried about us out-competing them. I wonder why?rjsterry said:
Agreed. General consensus seems to be that statements about wanting to diverge should be taken at face value. "Australia style" non-deal here we come.rick_chasey said:The problem as I see it is the closer the U.K. gets to a “fully divergent from the EU” position, with the associated friction, the smaller the difference between that and failing to agree to any deal.
I’m not convinced this U.K. govt will necessarily fold and increasingly the EU has a priority of not having a competitive neighbour.
Neither helps them get to a mutually beneficial compromise.
Clearly this was never the case
The EU aren't stupid enough to allow a major competitor both.0 -
TheBigBean said:
The UK has been fairly clear for a while that the goal is the best access possible whilst being able to regulate itself.tailwindhome said:
The UK can have the access they want to the EU market or the ability to regulate as they see fit to boost their economy.coopster_the_1st said:
This is a odd view from the EU when all the remoaners were saying the EU holds all the cards once the UK leaves.Stevo_666 said:
Clearly the EU are worried about us out-competing them. I wonder why?rjsterry said:
Agreed. General consensus seems to be that statements about wanting to diverge should be taken at face value. "Australia style" non-deal here we come.rick_chasey said:The problem as I see it is the closer the U.K. gets to a “fully divergent from the EU” position, with the associated friction, the smaller the difference between that and failing to agree to any deal.
I’m not convinced this U.K. govt will necessarily fold and increasingly the EU has a priority of not having a competitive neighbour.
Neither helps them get to a mutually beneficial compromise.
Clearly this was never the case
The EU aren't stupid enough to allow a major competitor both.
Now they need to negotiate the best possible access.
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Is it possible the UK haven't read the political declaration?“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
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Indeed, but it still feels like a lot of people have not understood this.tailwindhome said:TheBigBean said:
The UK has been fairly clear for a while that the goal is the best access possible whilst being able to regulate itself.tailwindhome said:
The UK can have the access they want to the EU market or the ability to regulate as they see fit to boost their economy.coopster_the_1st said:
This is a odd view from the EU when all the remoaners were saying the EU holds all the cards once the UK leaves.Stevo_666 said:
Clearly the EU are worried about us out-competing them. I wonder why?rjsterry said:
Agreed. General consensus seems to be that statements about wanting to diverge should be taken at face value. "Australia style" non-deal here we come.rick_chasey said:The problem as I see it is the closer the U.K. gets to a “fully divergent from the EU” position, with the associated friction, the smaller the difference between that and failing to agree to any deal.
I’m not convinced this U.K. govt will necessarily fold and increasingly the EU has a priority of not having a competitive neighbour.
Neither helps them get to a mutually beneficial compromise.
Clearly this was never the case
The EU aren't stupid enough to allow a major competitor both.
Now they need to negotiate the best possible access.0 -
what about that thread from Foster did you disagree with? As, with evidence, he explains why Barnier's position has not moved if you were paying attention.TheBigBean said:I don't find these arguments for the defence to be particularly persuasive. Barnier was playing politics, as always, (with the previous slide) and its caught up with him. It's one of the problems of not changing the lead negotiator.
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I'm confirming they're not stupid.coopster_the_1st said:
Are you now confirming the EU are protectionist and not pro-trade?tailwindhome said:
The UK can have the access they want to the EU market or the ability to regulate as they see fit to boost their economy.coopster_the_1st said:
This is a odd view from the EU when all the remoaners were saying the EU holds all the cards once the UK leaves.Stevo_666 said:
Clearly the EU are worried about us out-competing them. I wonder why?rjsterry said:
Agreed. General consensus seems to be that statements about wanting to diverge should be taken at face value. "Australia style" non-deal here we come.rick_chasey said:The problem as I see it is the closer the U.K. gets to a “fully divergent from the EU” position, with the associated friction, the smaller the difference between that and failing to agree to any deal.
I’m not convinced this U.K. govt will necessarily fold and increasingly the EU has a priority of not having a competitive neighbour.
Neither helps them get to a mutually beneficial compromise.
Clearly this was never the case
The EU aren't stupid enough to allow a major competitor both.
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
surely it is possible that if you have a very casual relationship with the truth then it is highly likely that you assume the same to be true of others? therefore if you agree to stuff in a legal document you may expect it to have no ramifications.tailwindhome said:Is it possible the UK haven't read the political declaration?
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A weak argument can be factually correct.rick_chasey said:
what about that thread from Foster did you disagree with? As, with evidence, he explains why Barnier's position has not moved if you were paying attention.TheBigBean said:I don't find these arguments for the defence to be particularly persuasive. Barnier was playing politics, as always, (with the previous slide) and its caught up with him. It's one of the problems of not changing the lead negotiator.
I think his original slide was probably right, but it doesn't reconcile with the EU27's shopping list at the moment, so there is a rush to find excuses.0 -
They are both.coopster_the_1st said:
Are you now confirming the EU are protectionist and not pro-trade?tailwindhome said:
The UK can have the access they want to the EU market or the ability to regulate as they see fit to boost their economy.coopster_the_1st said:
This is a odd view from the EU when all the remoaners were saying the EU holds all the cards once the UK leaves.Stevo_666 said:
Clearly the EU are worried about us out-competing them. I wonder why?rjsterry said:
Agreed. General consensus seems to be that statements about wanting to diverge should be taken at face value. "Australia style" non-deal here we come.rick_chasey said:The problem as I see it is the closer the U.K. gets to a “fully divergent from the EU” position, with the associated friction, the smaller the difference between that and failing to agree to any deal.
I’m not convinced this U.K. govt will necessarily fold and increasingly the EU has a priority of not having a competitive neighbour.
Neither helps them get to a mutually beneficial compromise.
Clearly this was never the case
The EU aren't stupid enough to allow a major competitor both.0 -
Agreed.TheBigBean said:
A weak argument can be factually correct.rick_chasey said:
what about that thread from Foster did you disagree with? As, with evidence, he explains why Barnier's position has not moved if you were paying attention.TheBigBean said:I don't find these arguments for the defence to be particularly persuasive. Barnier was playing politics, as always, (with the previous slide) and its caught up with him. It's one of the problems of not changing the lead negotiator.
I think his original slide was probably right, but it doesn't reconcile with the EU27's shopping list at the moment, so there is a rush to find excuses."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
There hasn't been a good answer to that on here that I can recall.TheBigBean said:A question for those adamant that unskilled labour from the EU should be allowed - why not the rest of the word as well?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
At least I'm not in the business of talking bollox and misrepresenting the views of othersrick_chasey said:
We've already well established Stevo is not in the business of encouraging competition, either in business, politics, or anywhere else.surrey_commuter said:
I think he is looking at it from a UK point of view and querying whether government rather than markets will best allocate resources.Stevo_666 said:
No different in principle to the controls over non-EU workers coming into the EU. It will be more about how it is worked in practice.rjsterry said:
With the new immigration policy released this evening, they can probably relax a bit. Not sure how central control of the labour force fits with any plans to out-compete the EU. F*** business indeed.Stevo_666 said:
Clearly the EU are worried about us out-competing them. I wonder why?rjsterry said:
Agreed. General consensus seems to be that statements about wanting to diverge should be taken at face value. "Australia style" non-deal here we come.rick_chasey said:The problem as I see it is the closer the U.K. gets to a “fully divergent from the EU” position, with the associated friction, the smaller the difference between that and failing to agree to any deal.
I’m not convinced this U.K. govt will necessarily fold and increasingly the EU has a priority of not having a competitive neighbour.
Neither helps them get to a mutually beneficial compromise.
Although clearly there will be other factors that concern the EU.
He's made plenty of 'lump of labour' arguments to argue why it make sense to restrict the labour force, so this position should come as no surprise.
Why bother upping your game when you can vote in governments that protect your weak game?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]1 -
What evidence is there for that, when the close observers have found they haven't changed their position?TheBigBean said:
A weak argument can be factually correct.rick_chasey said:
what about that thread from Foster did you disagree with? As, with evidence, he explains why Barnier's position has not moved if you were paying attention.TheBigBean said:I don't find these arguments for the defence to be particularly persuasive. Barnier was playing politics, as always, (with the previous slide) and its caught up with him. It's one of the problems of not changing the lead negotiator.
I think his original slide was probably right, but it doesn't reconcile with the EU27's shopping list at the moment, so there is a rush to find excuses.0
