BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

Stevo_666

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

surrey_commuter said:

ballysmate said:

Come on Stevo, get with the programme. Don't want to be sent for re education do you?

I too have identified on here as a reluctant remainder.
Lot of us about.

Steve identified with the author of the article he extensively reproduced.
If nothing else it proves that nobody on here reads anything including stuff they link to and cut and paste.

Literally in the first paragraph the writer sets the background to the piece by describing himself as a reluctant Brexiteer.

Reluctant remainer/reluctant Brexiteer are fairly close on the Brexit spectrum (as opposed to many on here who are far over into remain and a few who are far over into leave. Just depends which side of the fence at the 50/50 mark you fall.

Part of me definitely says it was something that was going to happen at some point. At the risk of incurring the wrath of the majority on here, I agree with Daniel Hannan who was reported on the Beeb website as follows:
On the other side, though, Conservative MEP and prominent Eurosceptic Daniel Hannan said opinion in Britain turned against the bloc when it became clear "the aspiration was to have the EU as a quasi-state".

"If at any stage Britain had been able to have a trade-only relationship that would have been enough," he went on, but added: "You are losing a bad tenant and gaining a good neighbour."

I really don't see how a reluctant leaver is anything like a reluctant remainer

See the first paragraph of my reply above.

Stevo_666

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Hah ok. You'd have fooled me. You don't post like someone who voted remain at all. I mean, you spout off more Brexit/EU nonsense than actual brexiters I know in person.

IYHO.

This place does need a bit of balance as I and others including TBB have said before.

pretty impressive arguing against your beliefs for 3.5 years

I've always believed it needs balance, that's obvious with people like you in here.

coopster_the_1st

ballysmate said:

Come on Stevo, get with the programme. Don't want to be sent for re education do you?

I too have identified on here as a reluctant remainder.
Lot of us about.

You can both add democrats to how you have identified unlike many on here who only believe in democracy when it goes their way

Stevo_666

coopster_the_1st said:

ballysmate said:

Come on Stevo, get with the programme. Don't want to be sent for re education do you?

I too have identified on here as a reluctant remainder.
Lot of us about.

You can both add democrats to how you have identified unlike many on here who only believe in democracy when it goes their way

It kind of goes without saying now.

bompington

coopster_the_1st said:

ballysmate said:

Come on Stevo, get with the programme. Don't want to be sent for re education do you?

I too have identified on here as a reluctant remainder.
Lot of us about.

You can both add democrats to how you have identified unlike many on here who only believe in democracy when it goes their way

I can't be the only one who suspects that Leavers' profound commitment to democracy has all along been highly contingent on somehow having managed to fluke just one vote in their favour thanks to a perfect storm of manipulation, lies, russian interference and establishment complacency and incompetence.

In other words, everything about their words, their actions and the character they reveal makes it pretty damn sure that they only believe in democracy when it goes their way.

morstar

Stevo_666 said:

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

Here's some of the text in case its behind the Torygraph paywall:

"Sadness, foreboding, and dismay that it ever came to such a point: these are the emotions that this reluctant Brexiteer feels as we finally leave the European Union on Friday.

I feel no satisfaction in the traumatic moment. Yet I stick to my view that this dysfunctional marriage had to end. Such is the Brexit paradox.

There has been much commentary over recent days dividing us (again) into opposed camps: Remainers still angry or in mourning, set against triumphant foes of Brussels. But what about the rest of us with more subtle feelings and in many cases a deep affection for l’Europe des patries?

Of course we recognise the advantages (for some) of being able to live and work anywhere in the EU. We know Brussels did a good job breaking down the cartels, opening up cheap air travel and (belatedly) ending the racket of roaming fees.

We can see that if you are dealing with a Chinese Communist Party that sees itself in “existential struggle” with the West, or with a pathological predator like Vladimir Putin, it is better to club together in self-protection. Mark these down on the good side of the ledger. But they are not the heart of the matter.


It has been a particularly irritating habit of the British establishment, aligned with a nexus of vested interests, and their army of academic and media auxiliaries, to reduce Brexit to a matter of trade above all else. If that were the case, then one would wish to stay in the EU.

But Brexit is not about trade, and nor are the details of customs clearance or rules of origin as important as we keep being told. They are not trivial but they are second order issues.

The elemental question is who runs this country. Do we wish to be a self-governing democracy under our own courts, or a canton of a higher supra-national regime that keeps acquiring more powers – beyond its ability to exercise them competently – through the Monnet Method of treaty creep?"

The problem with all that is that last paragraph really wasn't the case and we had veto rights. What laws did the EU force on us that our own Parliament opposed?

The statement is as much future looking as anything else, but as I've said before its death by a thousand cuts given the sheer volume of EU legislation, some of which just seems to be unnecessary.

It's also the principle - decisions related to the UK should be taken in the UK. That would only have diminished if we had stayed.

Sounds like a forecast to me

Stevo_666

morstar said:

Stevo_666 said:

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

Here's some of the text in case its behind the Torygraph paywall:

"Sadness, foreboding, and dismay that it ever came to such a point: these are the emotions that this reluctant Brexiteer feels as we finally leave the European Union on Friday.

I feel no satisfaction in the traumatic moment. Yet I stick to my view that this dysfunctional marriage had to end. Such is the Brexit paradox.

There has been much commentary over recent days dividing us (again) into opposed camps: Remainers still angry or in mourning, set against triumphant foes of Brussels. But what about the rest of us with more subtle feelings and in many cases a deep affection for l’Europe des patries?

Of course we recognise the advantages (for some) of being able to live and work anywhere in the EU. We know Brussels did a good job breaking down the cartels, opening up cheap air travel and (belatedly) ending the racket of roaming fees.

We can see that if you are dealing with a Chinese Communist Party that sees itself in “existential struggle” with the West, or with a pathological predator like Vladimir Putin, it is better to club together in self-protection. Mark these down on the good side of the ledger. But they are not the heart of the matter.


It has been a particularly irritating habit of the British establishment, aligned with a nexus of vested interests, and their army of academic and media auxiliaries, to reduce Brexit to a matter of trade above all else. If that were the case, then one would wish to stay in the EU.

But Brexit is not about trade, and nor are the details of customs clearance or rules of origin as important as we keep being told. They are not trivial but they are second order issues.

The elemental question is who runs this country. Do we wish to be a self-governing democracy under our own courts, or a canton of a higher supra-national regime that keeps acquiring more powers – beyond its ability to exercise them competently – through the Monnet Method of treaty creep?"

The problem with all that is that last paragraph really wasn't the case and we had veto rights. What laws did the EU force on us that our own Parliament opposed?

The statement is as much future looking as anything else, but as I've said before its death by a thousand cuts given the sheer volume of EU legislation, some of which just seems to be unnecessary.

It's also the principle - decisions related to the UK should be taken in the UK. That would probably only have diminished if we had stayed.

Sounds like a forecast to me

FTFY. Although it is clear that historically the case given the amount of EU law on the statute book so regardless of the future, there is still the stuff that is already there - which is fact

morstar

Stevo_666 said:

morstar said:

Stevo_666 said:

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

Here's some of the text in case its behind the Torygraph paywall:

"Sadness, foreboding, and dismay that it ever came to such a point: these are the emotions that this reluctant Brexiteer feels as we finally leave the European Union on Friday.

I feel no satisfaction in the traumatic moment. Yet I stick to my view that this dysfunctional marriage had to end. Such is the Brexit paradox.

There has been much commentary over recent days dividing us (again) into opposed camps: Remainers still angry or in mourning, set against triumphant foes of Brussels. But what about the rest of us with more subtle feelings and in many cases a deep affection for l’Europe des patries?

Of course we recognise the advantages (for some) of being able to live and work anywhere in the EU. We know Brussels did a good job breaking down the cartels, opening up cheap air travel and (belatedly) ending the racket of roaming fees.

We can see that if you are dealing with a Chinese Communist Party that sees itself in “existential struggle” with the West, or with a pathological predator like Vladimir Putin, it is better to club together in self-protection. Mark these down on the good side of the ledger. But they are not the heart of the matter.


It has been a particularly irritating habit of the British establishment, aligned with a nexus of vested interests, and their army of academic and media auxiliaries, to reduce Brexit to a matter of trade above all else. If that were the case, then one would wish to stay in the EU.

But Brexit is not about trade, and nor are the details of customs clearance or rules of origin as important as we keep being told. They are not trivial but they are second order issues.

The elemental question is who runs this country. Do we wish to be a self-governing democracy under our own courts, or a canton of a higher supra-national regime that keeps acquiring more powers – beyond its ability to exercise them competently – through the Monnet Method of treaty creep?"

The problem with all that is that last paragraph really wasn't the case and we had veto rights. What laws did the EU force on us that our own Parliament opposed?

The statement is as much future looking as anything else, but as I've said before its death by a thousand cuts given the sheer volume of EU legislation, some of which just seems to be unnecessary.

It's also the principle - decisions related to the UK should be taken in the UK. That would probably only have diminished if we had stayed.

Sounds like a forecast to me

FTFY. Although it is clear that historically the case given the amount of EU law on the statute book so regardless of the future, there is still the stuff that is already there - which is fact

So it's a forecast based on observable events...

Interesting.

Sorry, couldn't resist, I'm stopping now. I have work to do.

Stevo_666

morstar said:

Stevo_666 said:

morstar said:

Stevo_666 said:

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

Here's some of the text in case its behind the Torygraph paywall:

"Sadness, foreboding, and dismay that it ever came to such a point: these are the emotions that this reluctant Brexiteer feels as we finally leave the European Union on Friday.

I feel no satisfaction in the traumatic moment. Yet I stick to my view that this dysfunctional marriage had to end. Such is the Brexit paradox.

There has been much commentary over recent days dividing us (again) into opposed camps: Remainers still angry or in mourning, set against triumphant foes of Brussels. But what about the rest of us with more subtle feelings and in many cases a deep affection for l’Europe des patries?

Of course we recognise the advantages (for some) of being able to live and work anywhere in the EU. We know Brussels did a good job breaking down the cartels, opening up cheap air travel and (belatedly) ending the racket of roaming fees.

We can see that if you are dealing with a Chinese Communist Party that sees itself in “existential struggle” with the West, or with a pathological predator like Vladimir Putin, it is better to club together in self-protection. Mark these down on the good side of the ledger. But they are not the heart of the matter.


It has been a particularly irritating habit of the British establishment, aligned with a nexus of vested interests, and their army of academic and media auxiliaries, to reduce Brexit to a matter of trade above all else. If that were the case, then one would wish to stay in the EU.

But Brexit is not about trade, and nor are the details of customs clearance or rules of origin as important as we keep being told. They are not trivial but they are second order issues.

The elemental question is who runs this country. Do we wish to be a self-governing democracy under our own courts, or a canton of a higher supra-national regime that keeps acquiring more powers – beyond its ability to exercise them competently – through the Monnet Method of treaty creep?"

The problem with all that is that last paragraph really wasn't the case and we had veto rights. What laws did the EU force on us that our own Parliament opposed?

The statement is as much future looking as anything else, but as I've said before its death by a thousand cuts given the sheer volume of EU legislation, some of which just seems to be unnecessary.

It's also the principle - decisions related to the UK should be taken in the UK. That would probably only have diminished if we had stayed.

Sounds like a forecast to me

FTFY. Although it is clear that historically the case given the amount of EU law on the statute book so regardless of the future, there is still the stuff that is already there - which is fact

So it's a forecast based on observable events...

Interesting.

Sorry, couldn't resist, I'm stopping now. I have work to do.

Best stop now

Happy B-Day (and I don't mean that contraption that French people use to wash their ar$es)

Stevo_666

Anyway, cheer up you lot; Uncle Boris has just given us a tax cut and business leaders get ready to splash the cash post Brexit:
https://telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/01/30/business-leaders-back-britain-thrive-outside-eu-city-gets-ready/?li_source=LI&li_medium=li-recommendation-widget

phelim21

Mr toad and ann widdecombe a perfect combination. At least I only live a few miles from the eu..

ballysmate

All off to the Cake Stop Brexit party at Wetherspoons then to celebrate?
Don't know what you will do if there is a happy hour.

ballysmate

Stevo_666 said:

surrey_commuter said:

ballysmate said:

Come on Stevo, get with the programme. Don't want to be sent for re education do you?

I too have identified on here as a reluctant remainder.
Lot of us about.

Steve identified with the author of the article he extensively reproduced.
If nothing else it proves that nobody on here reads anything including stuff they link to and cut and paste.

Literally in the first paragraph the writer sets the background to the piece by describing himself as a reluctant Brexiteer.

Reluctant remainer/reluctant Brexiteer are fairly close on the Brexit spectrum (as opposed to many on here who are far over into remain and a few who are far over into leave. Just depends which side of the fence at the 50/50 mark you fall.

Part of me definitely says it was something that was going to happen at some point. At the risk of incurring the wrath of the majority on here, I agree with Daniel Hannan who was reported on the Beeb website as follows:
On the other side, though, Conservative MEP and prominent Eurosceptic Daniel Hannan said opinion in Britain turned against the bloc when it became clear "the aspiration was to have the EU as a quasi-state".

"If at any stage Britain had been able to have a trade-only relationship that would have been enough," he went on, but added: "You are losing a bad tenant and gaining a good neighbour."

Reluctant Remainers could hold their nose and vote to Remain.
Reluctant Leavers couldn't bring themselves to do so.

rjsterry

ballysmate said:

Stevo_666 said:

surrey_commuter said:

ballysmate said:

Come on Stevo, get with the programme. Don't want to be sent for re education do you?

I too have identified on here as a reluctant remainder.
Lot of us about.

Steve identified with the author of the article he extensively reproduced.
If nothing else it proves that nobody on here reads anything including stuff they link to and cut and paste.

Literally in the first paragraph the writer sets the background to the piece by describing himself as a reluctant Brexiteer.

Reluctant remainer/reluctant Brexiteer are fairly close on the Brexit spectrum (as opposed to many on here who are far over into remain and a few who are far over into leave. Just depends which side of the fence at the 50/50 mark you fall.

Part of me definitely says it was something that was going to happen at some point. At the risk of incurring the wrath of the majority on here, I agree with Daniel Hannan who was reported on the Beeb website as follows:
On the other side, though, Conservative MEP and prominent Eurosceptic Daniel Hannan said opinion in Britain turned against the bloc when it became clear "the aspiration was to have the EU as a quasi-state".

"If at any stage Britain had been able to have a trade-only relationship that would have been enough," he went on, but added: "You are losing a bad tenant and gaining a good neighbour."

Reluctant Remainers could hold their nose and vote to Remain.
Reluctant Leavers couldn't bring themselves to do so.

What are reluctant Leavers reluctant about then? It suggests that they didn't really want to leave.

Stevo_666

ballysmate said:

All off to the Cake Stop Brexit party at Wetherspoons then to celebrate?
Don't know what you will do if there is a happy hour.

Unfortunately Weatherspoons don't do music. They need a pub with a juke box that has a few suitable songs:
Animals - We gotta get out of this place
Communards - Don't leave me this way
Europe - The Final Countdown.

kingstongraham

The Beat(en) Generation?

bompington

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51268688

And still the opinion polls show that more people want to remain than leave.

A few interesting little stats there, like: only 46% of leaders think that Brexit will improve the economy.

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

ballysmate said:

All off to the Cake Stop Brexit party at Wetherspoons then to celebrate?
Don't know what you will do if there is a happy hour.

Unfortunately Weatherspoons don't do music. They need a pub with a juke box that has a few suitable songs:
Animals - We gotta get out of this place
Communards - Don't leave me this way
Europe - The Final Countdown.

Pet Shop Boys - Give Stupidity a Chance

surrey_commuter

bompington said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51268688

And still the opinion polls show that more people want to remain than leave.

A few interesting little stats there, like: only 46% of leaders think that Brexit will improve the economy.

On the basis that nobody has ever claimed it will be good for the economy I think that 46% is staggeringly high

rick_chasey

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

ballysmate said:

All off to the Cake Stop Brexit party at Wetherspoons then to celebrate?
Don't know what you will do if there is a happy hour.

Unfortunately Weatherspoons don't do music. They need a pub with a juke box that has a few suitable songs:
Animals - We gotta get out of this place
Communards - Don't leave me this way
Europe - The Final Countdown.

Pet Shop Boys - Give Stupidity a Chance

In my mind, Cummings sings the chorus of “opportunities” to himself whilst daydreaming of BoJo quite often.

Stevo_666

Sinead O'Connor - nothing compares to EU.

Stevo_666

Queen - I want to break free
Oasis - Don't look back in anger

Stevo_666

To be even handed:
AC/DC - Highway to Hell

orraloon

Welcome To The Pleasuredome ~ Frankie used to go to Hollywood but now goes to Fleetwood with it's "promised" BloJo railway.

phelim21

Come out ye black and tans
A nation once again
Wolfe tones

Stevo_666

Kirsty MacColl - A New England

Stevo_666

Human League - Don't you want me?

Stevo_666

Fleetwood Mac - Go your own way

phelim21

Boris Johnston So you wanna be a superhero - carrissas weird

focuszing723

Mr Blobby - Mr Blobby (1993)