BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

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  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,537
    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    tailwindhome said:


    Tony Connelly
    @tconnellyRTE
    NEW Von der Leyen: without the free movement of people you cannot have the free movement of capital and services. The more divergence there is the more distant the partnership will be.

    Von der Leyen in her first 'No sh!te Sherlock' moment. Good to see she's on the ball...
    Maybe mention that to the guy promising near unrestricted access to the SM with no concessions on FoM or anything else. Essentially the same Vote Leave nonsense as 2016. Alex, I think his name is. Not that the so-called Australian-style points system is likely to change anything much once various schemes for seasonal workers and what have you are taken into account.
    The seasonal workers could presumably be from outside the EU.

    This is what the political declaration states. The EU will need to reconcile 41 and 48 as breaching one of them this early isn't a good look.

    41.The Parties should include provisions to enable free movement of capital and payments related to transactions liberalised under the economic partnership, subject to relevant exceptions.
    48.Noting that the United Kingdom has decided that the principle of free movement of persons between the Union and the United Kingdom will no longer apply, the Parties should establish mobility arrangements, as set out below.
    49.The mobility arrangements will be based on non-discrimination between the Union's Member States and full reciprocity.
    50.In this context, the Parties aim to provide, through their domestic laws, for visa-free travel for short-term visits.
    51.The Parties agree to consider conditions for entry and stay for purposes such as research, study, training and youth exchanges.
    52.The Parties also agree to consider addressing social security coordination in the light of future movement of persons.
    53.In line with their applicable laws, the Parties will explore the possibility to facilitate the crossing of their respective borders for legitimate travel.
    54.Any provisions will be without prejudice to the Common Travel Area (CTA) arrangements as they apply between the United Kingdom and Ireland.
    55.To support mobility, the Parties confirm their commitment to the effective application of the existing international family law instruments to which they are parties.The Union notes the United Kingdom's intention to accede to the 2007 Hague Maintenance Convention to which it is currently bound through its Union membership.56.The Parties will explore options for judicial cooperation in matrimonial, parental responsibility and other related matters.
    57.These arrangements would be in addition to commitments on temporary entry and stay of natural persons for business purposes in defined areas as referred to in Section III of this Part. Those commitments should notbe nullified by the right of either Party to apply their respective laws, regulations and requirements regarding entry, stay and work.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,310

    NI Amendment 55 was the only one selected but voted down.














    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,097
    TheBlueBean said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    tailwindhome said:


    Tony Connelly
    @tconnellyRTE
    NEW Von der Leyen: without the free movement of people you cannot have the free movement of capital and services. The more divergence there is the more distant the partnership will be.

    Von der Leyen in her first 'No sh!te Sherlock' moment. Good to see she's on the ball...
    Maybe mention that to the guy promising near unrestricted access to the SM with no concessions on FoM or anything else. Essentially the same Vote Leave nonsense as 2016. Alex, I think his name is. Not that the so-called Australian-style points system is likely to change anything much once various schemes for seasonal workers and what have you are taken into account.
    The seasonal workers could presumably be from outside the EU.

    This is what the political declaration states. The EU will need to reconcile 41 and 48 as breaching one of them this early isn't a good look.

    41.The Parties should include provisions to enable free movement of capital and payments related to transactions liberalised under the economic partnership, subject to relevant exceptions.
    48.Noting that the United Kingdom has decided that the principle of free movement of persons between the Union and the United Kingdom will no longer apply, the Parties should establish mobility arrangements, as set out below.
    49.The mobility arrangements will be based on non-discrimination between the Union's Member States and full reciprocity.
    50.In this context, the Parties aim to provide, through their domestic laws, for visa-free travel for short-term visits.
    51.The Parties agree to consider conditions for entry and stay for purposes such as research, study, training and youth exchanges.
    52.The Parties also agree to consider addressing social security coordination in the light of future movement of persons.
    53.In line with their applicable laws, the Parties will explore the possibility to facilitate the crossing of their respective borders for legitimate travel.
    54.Any provisions will be without prejudice to the Common Travel Area (CTA) arrangements as they apply between the United Kingdom and Ireland.
    55.To support mobility, the Parties confirm their commitment to the effective application of the existing international family law instruments to which they are parties.The Union notes the United Kingdom's intention to accede to the 2007 Hague Maintenance Convention to which it is currently bound through its Union membership.56.The Parties will explore options for judicial cooperation in matrimonial, parental responsibility and other related matters.
    57.These arrangements would be in addition to commitments on temporary entry and stay of natural persons for business purposes in defined areas as referred to in Section III of this Part. Those commitments should notbe nullified by the right of either Party to apply their respective laws, regulations and requirements regarding entry, stay and work.
    Sorry I should have been more specific. Won't make much difference to the net migration figures. The whole thing seems to be worded to allow as much flexibility as possible, so who knows where it will end up.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,310
    TheBlueBean said:

    I read somewhere that the commission is keen to go for phasing again, but that a number of the EU27 are much less keen given the shambles of last time.




    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,613
    Surprised nobody mentioned this:
    https://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51051178
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • coopster_the_1st
    coopster_the_1st Posts: 5,158
    Airbus are going to expand their operations in the UK this year.

    Who knew? Well, the remoaners didn't as their gullibility meant they fell for politically motivation lies
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,097
    Stevo_666 said:

    Surprised nobody mentioned this:
    https://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51051178

    Bit of a foregone conclusion, no?
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    tailwindhome said:

    TheBlueBean said:

    I read somewhere that the commission is keen to go for phasing again, but that a number of the EU27 are much less keen given the shambles of last time.




    tailwindhome said:

    TheBlueBean said:

    I read somewhere that the commission is keen to go for phasing again, but that a number of the EU27 are much less keen given the shambles of last time.




    Christ why are fisheries so high up?
    _
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,097
    rick_chasey said:

    tailwindhome said:

    TheBlueBean said:

    I read somewhere that the commission is keen to go for phasing again, but that a number of the EU27 are much less keen given the shambles of last time.




    tailwindhome said:

    TheBlueBean said:

    I read somewhere that the commission is keen to go for phasing again, but that a number of the EU27 are much less keen given the shambles of last time.




    Christ why are fisheries so high up?
    Leverage. Also, count up the countries who currently fish in UK waters.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,310
    Stevo_666 said:

    Surprised nobody mentioned this:
    https://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51051178

    That's the difference an 86 majority makes.

    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,310
    edited January 2020
    Putting it in here as it's Brexit related in the sense Brexit needed resolved before it could be fixed.

    3 years to the day after Martin McGuinness resigned and in effect pulled down the assembly a deal has been done* to restart it tomorrow.

    *It ain't done until the DUP and SF both nominate their First and deputy First Ministers.
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,613
    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Surprised nobody mentioned this:
    https://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51051178

    Bit of a foregone conclusion, no?
    True, but rather relevant to the thread.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,310
    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Surprised nobody mentioned this:
    https://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51051178

    Bit of a foregone conclusion, no?
    True, but rather relevant to the thread.
    Oh very much so....but the drama's gone.




    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,613
    tailwindhome said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Surprised nobody mentioned this:
    https://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51051178

    Bit of a foregone conclusion, no?
    True, but rather relevant to the thread.
    Oh very much so....but the drama's gone.




    Not necessarily a bad thing.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Jeremy.89
    Jeremy.89 Posts: 457
    coopster_the_1st said:

    Airbus are going to expand their operations in the UK this year.

    Who knew? Well, the remoaners didn't as their gullibility meant they fell for politically motivation lies

    One where the headlines don't match what the management said here I feel. Although with the 737 issues, Airbus should be looking to expand all over the place.

    Important to also remember that this is based on getting rid of the no deal option that was your dream.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,097
    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Surprised nobody mentioned this:
    https://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51051178

    Bit of a foregone conclusion, no?
    True, but rather relevant to the thread.
    Sure, but I'm now far more interested in where we go from here. On which bits will Johnson fold?
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    rjsterry said:

    rick_chasey said:

    tailwindhome said:

    TheBlueBean said:

    I read somewhere that the commission is keen to go for phasing again, but that a number of the EU27 are much less keen given the shambles of last time.




    tailwindhome said:

    TheBlueBean said:

    I read somewhere that the commission is keen to go for phasing again, but that a number of the EU27 are much less keen given the shambles of last time.




    Christ why are fisheries so high up?
    Leverage. Also, count up the countries who currently fish in UK waters.
    but will we use the leverage? potentially it is our trump card
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,097
    surrey_commuter said:

    rjsterry said:

    rick_chasey said:

    tailwindhome said:

    TheBlueBean said:

    I read somewhere that the commission is keen to go for phasing again, but that a number of the EU27 are much less keen given the shambles of last time.




    tailwindhome said:

    TheBlueBean said:

    I read somewhere that the commission is keen to go for phasing again, but that a number of the EU27 are much less keen given the shambles of last time.




    Christ why are fisheries so high up?
    Leverage. Also, count up the countries who currently fish in UK waters.
    but will we use the leverage? potentially it is our trump card
    That was the EU's list of priorities. UK fishermen might want to look at what happened to NI.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,613
    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Surprised nobody mentioned this:
    https://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51051178

    Bit of a foregone conclusion, no?
    True, but rather relevant to the thread.
    Sure, but I'm now far more interested in where we go from here. On which bits will Johnson fold?
    Will also be interesting to see on which bits the EU folds.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,613
    Jeremy.89 said:

    coopster_the_1st said:

    Airbus are going to expand their operations in the UK this year.

    Who knew? Well, the remoaners didn't as their gullibility meant they fell for politically motivation lies

    One where the headlines don't match what the management said here I feel. Although with the 737 issues, Airbus should be looking to expand all over the place.

    Important to also remember that this is based on getting rid of the no deal option that was your dream.
    Probably down to two main points:
    1. Like many businesses they 'banged the drum' and set out a worst case scenario about Brexit, especially when the no deal risk was looming large.
    2. There are material factors other than Brexit that determine where businesses base themselves. Such as labour force flexibility, business friendly environment etc.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 27,760
    Does our Dear Leader need to get approval from anyone else for the agreement that comes in on 1st Jan? I understand that the EU negotiators need to get formal approval from the European Council and the European Parliament.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,613
    kingstongraham said:

    Does our Dear Leader need to get approval from anyone else for the agreement that comes in on 1st Jan? I understand that the EU negotiators need to get formal approval from the European Council and the European Parliament.

    What agreement comes in (or came in if that's the date)?
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 27,760
    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Does our Dear Leader need to get approval from anyone else for the agreement that comes in on 1st Jan? I understand that the EU negotiators need to get formal approval from the European Council and the European Parliament.

    What agreement comes in (or came in if that's the date)?
    1st Jan - when the withdrawal agreement transition period has run out. Who needs to agree to it on the UK side? Just the person who signs it, or does anyone else have to agree to it?

  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,613
    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Does our Dear Leader need to get approval from anyone else for the agreement that comes in on 1st Jan? I understand that the EU negotiators need to get formal approval from the European Council and the European Parliament.

    What agreement comes in (or came in if that's the date)?
    1st Jan - when the withdrawal agreement transition period has run out. Who needs to agree to it on the UK side? Just the person who signs it, or does anyone else have to agree to it?

    OK - you mean 1 Jan 2021/22/23 depending on whether there's an extension. I think we've already signed up to that. The only decision is that by 30 June this year we need to elect whether we want a 1 year or 2 year extension or leave it at the current end date 31 Dec 2020.

    I think the government can decide, but in any event even if parliamentary approval is needed, it will get through anyway. So in the end it doesn't really matter if he does or not.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 27,760
    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Does our Dear Leader need to get approval from anyone else for the agreement that comes in on 1st Jan? I understand that the EU negotiators need to get formal approval from the European Council and the European Parliament.

    What agreement comes in (or came in if that's the date)?
    1st Jan - when the withdrawal agreement transition period has run out. Who needs to agree to it on the UK side? Just the person who signs it, or does anyone else have to agree to it?

    OK - you mean 1 Jan 2021/22/23 depending on whether there's an extension. I think we've already signed up to that. The only decision is that by 30 June this year we need to elect whether we want a 1 year or 2 year extension or leave it at the current end date 31 Dec 2020.

    I think the government can decide, but in any event even if parliamentary approval is needed, it will get through anyway. So in the end it doesn't really matter if he does or not.
    That might be the only decision on timing, I think there's one or two decisions to be made still on what is in the long term agreement that is due to come in once the transition period runs out.

    I take it you don't know either. I think it is presumptuous to think that the ERG is going to go along with anything regardless of what it is. That doesn't seem to be their way of working, especially when the alternative option is something they might want anyway. If parliament has no say, then it doesn't matter, he has the flexibility.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    edited January 2020
    Well I can vouch for hospitals not having enough beds.

    I’m in for emergency surgery and 10 hours in I’ve not been able to have a bed yet.
    _
  • hopkinb
    hopkinb Posts: 7,129
    rick_chasey said:

    Well I can vouch for hospitals not having enough beds.

    I’m in for emergency surgery and 10 hours in I’ve not been able to have a bed yet.

    Hope you're OK Rick.

    i.e. they haven't been able to perform the surgery yet as there are no ward beds, or they've done the op and propped you up in a chair in the corner/left you on a trolley next to the bogs?
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 13,199
    Woah. Best wishes RC. Trust you get sorted asap.
  • Longshot
    Longshot Posts: 940
    Best wishes Rick.
    You can fool some of the people all of the time. Concentrate on those people.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 26,974
    Boris Coopster will claim fake news no doubt.
    Speedy recovery hopefully.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.

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