BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

rick_chasey

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

WA hasn't been fully agreed yet, has it?

So far the negotiations have been going for 3 years.

Just some pesky parliamentary approval to go? It's likely that will be solved soon...

So easy to get done it's on its second iteration and has seen off two elections before its completion, the second one having to be held in order to get it passed.

It doesn't sound particularly fast to me or easy to me, and this was supposed to be the easy part of the negotiations.

That's in the past now - and on the balance of probabilities the WA should be getting passed if the GE result is as expected. Sounds like you're still in a bit of denial about it even over 3 years on from the referendum.

I think you're in denial if you think that trade deals are fast and easy to arrange.

You used the WA as evidence to suggest they can be done fast, so I helpfully pointed out that this WA has been 3 years in the making and still isn't done.

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

surrey_commuter said:

I

Stevo_666 said:

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

The current position of the Conservatives is that any trade deal will be easy because we are currently aligned in every way, which only makes sense if we are going to stay aligned, which is completely at odds with the justification for Brexit.

Don't think so - staying in the single market for example requires that. Whereas trade deals that the EU have done with say Canada, Japan, S. Korea have not relied on alignment to 'make it easy'.

So is starting from a point of alignment making it easier a load of pony then?

The main thing is whether the two parties really want to get a trade deal done - as showed when the revised WA was hammered out in fairly short order.

But well done on finding the pessimistic viewpoint.

Why do you think that moving away from alignment will be easier than moving towards it.

WA revision was Boris going back on red lines and agreeing to previous EU suggestions. So yes if Boris sets himself a hard deadline and then agrees to the deal the EU present to him then it is entirely possible

I didn't say that. My point was in a nutshell 'where there's a will there's a way'. Which admittedly is not easy to get across here because there is very little will in Cake Stop.

Your track record of how to succeed with Brexit is not good
Be optimistic
5th largest economy
Split the other side
German carmakers
They need us more than we need them
Be positive

Now we need to sort out a trade deal why don’t you make some positive suggestions on how to get a good outcome

Your honorary membership of the LMS is in the post.

The EU trade deals with the likes of Canada, Japan etc were not done from a starting point of alignment were they?

It will be down to hard negotiation but as above, it is pretty important that both parties want to achieve it. That is pretty obvious.

It's not at all clear that the Conservative party - or at least a majority of that party - can agree what they want to achieve.

I think you're more hoping than forecasting - the point I made above was that when both parties wanted to get something done and the pressure was on, they got there (and we just need to ratify). But we'll just have to see. This time next week we may have a better idea of where things are headed.

I was talking about the FTA, not the WAB. I'm assuming the latter will get passed, but even that is provisional. There are provisions for parliamentary oversight of the FTA negotiations in the WAB. Different bits of the Tories want very different things from the FTA, let alone the rest of parliament. I can't see the a small majority bringing about a sudden bout of discipline in the ranks now that the ERG have got a taste for wagging the dog.

Well let's see. Starting with how the parliamentary land lies next Friday.

The reality that if we want to get it done, then it requires some compromise has even filtered through to the Brexit party recently.

Of course. Johnson conceded on an Irish Sea border and is now going around denying the terms of his own deal. You can see why businesses might have trouble taking him seriously.

rick_chasey

bompington said:

Longshot said:

Stevo_666 said:

Although in reality a lot of it may be down to the frustration of the sufferers not having their chosen party in power for a long time.

That would be me. As a life-long Conservative Party voter, I have no idea when they'll get back and take power back from the Brexit Party currently holding the throne.

This.

But as long as it's wearing a blue shirt, it'll always be Stevo's beloved Chelsea Tories.

It's revealing when Tommy Robinson will back the Tories but former prime minister John Major won't.

Longshot

rick_chasey said:

bompington said:

Longshot said:

Stevo_666 said:

Although in reality a lot of it may be down to the frustration of the sufferers not having their chosen party in power for a long time.

That would be me. As a life-long Conservative Party voter, I have no idea when they'll get back and take power back from the Brexit Party currently holding the throne.

This.

But as long as it's wearing a blue shirt, it'll always be Stevo's beloved Chelsea Tories.

It's revealing when Tommy Robinson will back the Tories but former prime minister John Major won't.

You're not kidding.

Stevo_666

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Losing Mentality Squad

A phrase I coined a while back about the excessively negative 'we're doomed' etc type viewpoint displayed on this thread and the Labour Party thread also. Although in reality a lot of it may be down to the frustration of the sufferers not having their chosen party in power for a long time.

But you seem to think we would be doomed by Corbyn and his exciting proposals. Look for the positives!

I've already answered that one on the last page...

And I suppose another Scottish indyref would be a consolation prize

kingstongraham

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

The current position of the Conservatives is that any trade deal will be easy because we are currently aligned in every way, which only makes sense if we are going to stay aligned, which is completely at odds with the justification for Brexit.

Don't think so - staying in the single market for example requires that. Whereas trade deals that the EU have done with say Canada, Japan, S. Korea have not relied on alignment to 'make it easy'.

So is starting from a point of alignment making it easier a load of pony then?

The main thing is whether the two parties really want to get a trade deal done - as showed when the revised WA was hammered out in fairly short order.

But well done on finding the pessimistic viewpoint.

I was just clarifying what you said, it sounded like you thought the stated Conservative party position was incorrect.

elbowloh

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Losing Mentality Squad

A phrase I coined a while back about the excessively negative 'we're doomed' etc type viewpoint displayed on this thread and the Labour Party thread also. Although in reality a lot of it may be down to the frustration of the sufferers not having their chosen party in power for a long time.

But you seem to think we would be doomed by Corbyn and his exciting proposals. Look for the positives!

I've already answered that one on the last page...

And I suppose another Scottish indyref would be a consolation prize

I think Scottish Independence is more like with a Tory win, as the scots hate Boris.

surrey_commuter

I know we have discussed Ivan Rogers opinion on how the next phase will pan out but I am going to post the link again as on a slow Friday I have read it and it is very informative. Find a comfy seat as it is a long read.
https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/ivan-rogers-on-brexit-the-worst-is-yet-to-come-eu-trade-deal-boris-johnson-labour-election-speech-glasgow

rick_chasey

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/12/06/uk/top-british-diplomat-quits-brexit-intl/index.html

Lead U.K. envoy to US resigns saying she’s fed up with “pedalling half-truths” from govt

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

WA hasn't been fully agreed yet, has it?

So far the negotiations have been going for 3 years.

Just some pesky parliamentary approval to go? It's likely that will be solved soon...

So easy to get done it's on its second iteration and has seen off two elections before its completion, the second one having to be held in order to get it passed.

It doesn't sound particularly fast to me or easy to me, and this was supposed to be the easy part of the negotiations.

That's in the past now - and on the balance of probabilities the WA should be getting passed if the GE result is as expected. Sounds like you're still in a bit of denial about it even over 3 years on from the referendum.

I think you're in denial if you think that trade deals are fast and easy to arrange.

You used the WA as evidence to suggest they can be done fast, so I helpfully pointed out that this WA has been 3 years in the making and still isn't done.

Well aware of how long they can take. If you remember it was me who pointed some time avo out how slow the EU was at doing trade deals. But this one will have a bit more impetus as there will be a deadline.

On a completely different point, I'm up your end of the world tomorrow as junior has a uni interview.

Stevo_666

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

The current position of the Conservatives is that any trade deal will be easy because we are currently aligned in every way, which only makes sense if we are going to stay aligned, which is completely at odds with the justification for Brexit.

Don't think so - staying in the single market for example requires that. Whereas trade deals that the EU have done with say Canada, Japan, S. Korea have not relied on alignment to 'make it easy'.

So is starting from a point of alignment making it easier a load of pony then?

The main thing is whether the two parties really want to get a trade deal done - as showed when the revised WA was hammered out in fairly short order.

But well done on finding the pessimistic viewpoint.

I was just clarifying what you said, it sounded like you thought the stated Conservative party position was incorrect.

Not sure how you came to that conclusion.

Stevo_666

elbowloh said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Losing Mentality Squad

A phrase I coined a while back about the excessively negative 'we're doomed' etc type viewpoint displayed on this thread and the Labour Party thread also. Although in reality a lot of it may be down to the frustration of the sufferers not having their chosen party in power for a long time.

But you seem to think we would be doomed by Corbyn and his exciting proposals. Look for the positives!

I've already answered that one on the last page...

And I suppose another Scottish indyref would be a consolation prize

I think Scottish Independence is more like with a Tory win, as the scots hate Boris.

Maybe they do, but I cant see him caving in and give them a referendum as Corbyn is likely to do.

rick_chasey

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

WA hasn't been fully agreed yet, has it?

So far the negotiations have been going for 3 years.

Just some pesky parliamentary approval to go? It's likely that will be solved soon...

So easy to get done it's on its second iteration and has seen off two elections before its completion, the second one having to be held in order to get it passed.

It doesn't sound particularly fast to me or easy to me, and this was supposed to be the easy part of the negotiations.

That's in the past now - and on the balance of probabilities the WA should be getting passed if the GE result is as expected. Sounds like you're still in a bit of denial about it even over 3 years on from the referendum.

I think you're in denial if you think that trade deals are fast and easy to arrange.

You used the WA as evidence to suggest they can be done fast, so I helpfully pointed out that this WA has been 3 years in the making and still isn't done.

Well aware of how long they can take. If you remember it was me who pointed some time avo out how slow the EU was at doing trade deals. But this one will have a bit more impetus as there will be a deadline.

On a completely different point, I'm up your end of the world tomorrow as junior has a uni interview.

Tell your littleun good luck.

rick_chasey

Very happy to recommend venues for lunches/dinners/coffees/booze if you want them.

thecycleclinic

kingstongraham said:

The current position of the Conservatives is that any trade deal will be easy because we are currently aligned in every way, which only makes sense if we are going to stay aligned, which is completely at odds with the justification for Brexit.

Quite.

However sense no longer matters. Sense has left the building.

No party has a clue how to start addressing the issues that have driven Brexit. Take back control seems to mean more central control. That's going to work out well.

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

WA hasn't been fully agreed yet, has it?

So far the negotiations have been going for 3 years.

Just some pesky parliamentary approval to go? It's likely that will be solved soon...

So easy to get done it's on its second iteration and has seen off two elections before its completion, the second one having to be held in order to get it passed.

It doesn't sound particularly fast to me or easy to me, and this was supposed to be the easy part of the negotiations.

That's in the past now - and on the balance of probabilities the WA should be getting passed if the GE result is as expected. Sounds like you're still in a bit of denial about it even over 3 years on from the referendum.

I think you're in denial if you think that trade deals are fast and easy to arrange.

You used the WA as evidence to suggest they can be done fast, so I helpfully pointed out that this WA has been 3 years in the making and still isn't done.

Well aware of how long they can take. If you remember it was me who pointed some time avo out how slow the EU was at doing trade deals. But this one will have a bit more impetus as there will be a deadline.

On a completely different point, I'm up your end of the world tomorrow as junior has a uni interview.

Lol.

Also best of luck with the interview to Jr.

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

WA hasn't been fully agreed yet, has it?

So far the negotiations have been going for 3 years.

Just some pesky parliamentary approval to go? It's likely that will be solved soon...

So easy to get done it's on its second iteration and has seen off two elections before its completion, the second one having to be held in order to get it passed.

It doesn't sound particularly fast to me or easy to me, and this was supposed to be the easy part of the negotiations.

That's in the past now - and on the balance of probabilities the WA should be getting passed if the GE result is as expected. Sounds like you're still in a bit of denial about it even over 3 years on from the referendum.

I think you're in denial if you think that trade deals are fast and easy to arrange.

You used the WA as evidence to suggest they can be done fast, so I helpfully pointed out that this WA has been 3 years in the making and still isn't done.

Well aware of how long they can take. If you remember it was me who pointed some time avo out how slow the EU was at doing trade deals. But this one will have a bit more impetus as there will be a deadline.

On a completely different point, I'm up your end of the world tomorrow as junior has a uni interview.

Tell your littleun good luck.

Thanks Rick - and also for the offer of cafes/eateries. We'll probably pop out for a bit to grab a coffee and a sandwich while she has three separate interviews. We'll be in St. John's College so if you know a decent cafe in the general vicinity of Magdalene Street/ Bridge Street that would be great ta.

(We've been a couple of times before but didn't have time to mooch around).

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

WA hasn't been fully agreed yet, has it?

So far the negotiations have been going for 3 years.

Just some pesky parliamentary approval to go? It's likely that will be solved soon...

So easy to get done it's on its second iteration and has seen off two elections before its completion, the second one having to be held in order to get it passed.

It doesn't sound particularly fast to me or easy to me, and this was supposed to be the easy part of the negotiations.

That's in the past now - and on the balance of probabilities the WA should be getting passed if the GE result is as expected. Sounds like you're still in a bit of denial about it even over 3 years on from the referendum.

I think you're in denial if you think that trade deals are fast and easy to arrange.

You used the WA as evidence to suggest they can be done fast, so I helpfully pointed out that this WA has been 3 years in the making and still isn't done.

Well aware of how long they can take. If you remember it was me who pointed some time avo out how slow the EU was at doing trade deals. But this one will have a bit more impetus as there will be a deadline.

On a completely different point, I'm up your end of the world tomorrow as junior has a uni interview.

Lol.

Also best of luck with the interview to Jr.

Cheers RJS, fingers crossed, its all down to her now. I'm just the taxi driver.

rick_chasey

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

WA hasn't been fully agreed yet, has it?

So far the negotiations have been going for 3 years.

Just some pesky parliamentary approval to go? It's likely that will be solved soon...

So easy to get done it's on its second iteration and has seen off two elections before its completion, the second one having to be held in order to get it passed.

It doesn't sound particularly fast to me or easy to me, and this was supposed to be the easy part of the negotiations.

That's in the past now - and on the balance of probabilities the WA should be getting passed if the GE result is as expected. Sounds like you're still in a bit of denial about it even over 3 years on from the referendum.

I think you're in denial if you think that trade deals are fast and easy to arrange.

You used the WA as evidence to suggest they can be done fast, so I helpfully pointed out that this WA has been 3 years in the making and still isn't done.

Well aware of how long they can take. If you remember it was me who pointed some time avo out how slow the EU was at doing trade deals. But this one will have a bit more impetus as there will be a deadline.

On a completely different point, I'm up your end of the world tomorrow as junior has a uni interview.

Tell your littleun good luck.

Thanks Rick - and also for the offer of cafes/eateries. We'll probably pop out for a bit to grab a coffee and a sandwich while she has three separate interviews. We'll be in St. John's College so if you know a decent cafe in the general vicinity of Magdalene Street/ Bridge Street that would be great ta.

(We've been a couple of times before but didn't have time to mooch around).

Not very Cambridge but the Ivy is right nearby st Johns next to Heffers. Further up on bridge street there’s a Fitzbillies for cake & tea - very *Cambridge*. The orignal is just past king’s college in the other direction - there’s a restaurant attached to that.

I’ve not been but Trinity is also nearby and supposed to be a good restaurant.

Just off st Johns on rose crescent is Gardinias aka Gardies which is the Cambridge version of a greasy late night takeaway kabab place, only it’s actually a nice Greek too. Ask for it and they’ll photo you and stick it up on the wall somewhere.

rick_chasey

Also, if you see a short man with a flat cap, a grey pea coat and brown boots pushing a pram with a blue cover - chances are it’s me....

rick_chasey

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ELIs6a3XUAErfw0?format=jpg&name=large

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

Also, if you see a short man with a flat cap, a grey pea coat and brown boots pushing a pram with a blue cover - chances are it’s me....

Thanks for the tips Rick, appreciated and hopefully there will be a next time for them to come in handy.

I didn't spot anyone fitting the description above but then again we didn't get out until the end just after 3pm.

Saw your post before we went in but the lunchtime outing turned into a team huddle in the college restaurant as the first interview she felt didn't go well and was beating herself up about it - fortunately she reckoned she turned it around for the second and third interviews. Then at the end they dragged me into the first cafe they saw (Patissier on St. John Street). By which time it was time to head back.

Pretty full day including including bit of stress by proxy, so time for a good take away and some plonk.

Pross

bompington said:

Longshot said:

Stevo_666 said:

Although in reality a lot of it may be down to the frustration of the sufferers not having their chosen party in power for a long time.

That would be me. As a life-long Conservative Party voter, I have no idea when they'll get back and take power back from the Brexit Party currently holding the throne.

This.

But as long as it's wearing a blue shirt, it'll always be Stevo's beloved Chelsea Tories.

So that's at least 3 of us on this thread who've been driven away.

Stevo_666

Pross said:

bompington said:

Longshot said:

Stevo_666 said:

Although in reality a lot of it may be down to the frustration of the sufferers not having their chosen party in power for a long time.

That would be me. As a life-long Conservative Party voter, I have no idea when they'll get back and take power back from the Brexit Party currently holding the throne.

This.

But as long as it's wearing a blue shirt, it'll always be Stevo's beloved Chelsea Tories.

So that's at least 3 of us on this thread who've been driven away.

Where to?

surrey_commuter

Pross said:

bompington said:

Longshot said:

Stevo_666 said:

Although in reality a lot of it may be down to the frustration of the sufferers not having their chosen party in power for a long time.

That would be me. As a life-long Conservative Party voter, I have no idea when they'll get back and take power back from the Brexit Party currently holding the throne.

This.

But as long as it's wearing a blue shirt, it'll always be Stevo's beloved Chelsea Tories.

So that's at least 3 of us on this thread who've been driven away.

If I am not one of the three then make that four.

briantrumpet

surrey_commuter said:

Pross said:

bompington said:

Longshot said:

Stevo_666 said:

Although in reality a lot of it may be down to the frustration of the sufferers not having their chosen party in power for a long time.

That would be me. As a life-long Conservative Party voter, I have no idea when they'll get back and take power back from the Brexit Party currently holding the throne.

This.

But as long as it's wearing a blue shirt, it'll always be Stevo's beloved Chelsea Tories.

So that's at least 3 of us on this thread who've been driven away.

If I am not one of the three then make that four.

And I was never in the total, but make that five. Thankfully we've got a viable non-Tory candidate in East Devon. I've pretty much voted Tory in every local and general election since 1982, despite any misgivings en route.

Stevo_666

briantrumpet said:

I've pretty much voted Tory in every local and general election since 1982, despite any misgivings en route.

Now that I did not expect.

Stevo_666

So, who are you former Tories going to vote for? I assume none of you are stupid enough to actually vote Labour, so will it be the Lib Dem wasted vote option? In which case think who you might be inadvertently letting in...

briantrumpet

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

I've pretty much voted Tory in every local and general election since 1982, despite any misgivings en route.

Now that I did not expect.

Do you think it's just possible that you might have made incorrect assumptions?

I do realise that a straw poll of five in some cycling forum probably won't cause the Tories to quake in their boots, but when you've got the likes of Clarke and Major advising people to vote for ABAT (anyone but a Tory), and people who have voted Tory most of their voting life arguing to bring down the Tory government, don't you think it's just possible that something is very amiss with what the Tory Party has become? As I've said before, I also find it very sad to see what's become of the Daily Telegraph - it's just a posh version of the Daily Mail now. It's hateful.

You don't have to agree with every point of a political party's agenda, yet you can still respect it, and judge it the least worst option, if that party is respects and values reasonable dissent: that's the way you test and improve. But the Tories have utterly lost that ethos, in their rabid conversion to Brexit-mania. It's desperately sad - and almost as sad that parties that should be opposing it are led by incompetents.

briantrumpet

Stevo_666 said:

So, who are you former Tories going to vote for? I assume none of you are stupid enough to actually vote Labour, so will it be the Lib Dem wasted vote option? In which case think who you might be inadvertently letting in...

I would vote for Labour if that were the only way to stop the Tories in my constituency, despite thinking that Corbyn is both incompetent and dangerous (even with his incompetence). But I don't think he's as dangerous as Johnson and what the Tories have become.