BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

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  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    rick_chasey said:

    Assuming the Tory voters here don’t believe when Heseltine says “getting Brexit done is the great delusion” and Ivan Rogers dating that Johnson is engineering a “crisis that is likely to confront us at the Christmas yet to come - Christmas 2020”??


  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,324
    They’ve been kicking the can down the road since June 2016. Why would December 2019 be any different?
    “Getting Brexit done.” is just a sound bite.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,396
    pblakeney said:

    They’ve been kicking the can down the road since June 2016. Why would December 2019 be any different?
    “Getting Brexit done.” is just a sound bite.

    They as in the Tories? Was parliament not involved in any can kicking?
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited December 2019
    Stevo_666 said:

    pblakeney said:

    They’ve been kicking the can down the road since June 2016. Why would December 2019 be any different?
    “Getting Brexit done.” is just a sound bite.

    They as in the Tories? Was parliament not involved in any can kicking?
    Well given BoJo himself voted against May's deal *twice*, as well as a whole bunch at the ERG (who themselves are also members of the Tory Party) who knows Stevo.
    _
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited December 2019
    Here is his full voting record on Brexit before becoming PM. As you can see, he's not really interested in coming to an agreement on Brexit.

    In the "Indicative votes" on March 27, voted: did not vote on revoking Article 50 if the alternative is a no-deal Brexit; no to a second referendum; no to Norway Plus; no to single market membership; no to Labour’s plan for an alternative Brexit deal; no to customs union with the EU; yes to a preferential trading relationship with the EU in case of a no-deal Brexit; yes to a no-deal Brexit on April 12.


    So you want to tell me he is actually interested in 'getting Brexit done'??

    If so, it's a fairly new position for him.
    _
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,548
    He's interested in it now because he thinks he can use it to drum up support. Beyond that who knows what he believes. The man is incapable of giving a straight honest answer to anything. Put it this way: if Labour deprive Johnson of his seat they may well have done the Conservatives a favour.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,548
    edited December 2019
    Fat fingers
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Longshot
    Longshot Posts: 940
    rjsterry said:

    He's interested in it now because he thinks he can use it to drum up support. Beyond that who knows what he believes. The man is incapable of giving a straight honest answer to anything. Put it this way: if Labour deprive Johnson of his seat they may well have done the Conservatives a favour.


    There's an interesting proposition.

    Although, hang on, who do we get instead? ****-****? Raab? Hancock?

    What a lousy choice.
    You can fool some of the people all of the time. Concentrate on those people.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,324
    Look at the front benches - Oh my god.
    Look at the Back benches - Oh 20p for the box.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,396
    rick_chasey said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    pblakeney said:

    They’ve been kicking the can down the road since June 2016. Why would December 2019 be any different?
    “Getting Brexit done.” is just a sound bite.

    They as in the Tories? Was parliament not involved in any can kicking?
    Well given BoJo himself voted against May's deal *twice*, as well as a whole bunch at the ERG (who themselves are also members of the Tory Party) who knows Stevo.
    It's OK, I already knew the answer to my question.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,548
    Stevo_666 said:

    pblakeney said:

    They’ve been kicking the can down the road since June 2016. Why would December 2019 be any different?
    “Getting Brexit done.” is just a sound bite.

    They as in the Tories? Was parliament not involved in any can kicking?
    Parliament, consisting of 317 Conservative MPs, 262 Labour, 35 SNP, 12 LibDem, etc. Yes they were all involved in can-kicking.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,396
    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    pblakeney said:

    They’ve been kicking the can down the road since June 2016. Why would December 2019 be any different?
    “Getting Brexit done.” is just a sound bite.

    They as in the Tories? Was parliament not involved in any can kicking?
    Parliament, consisting of 317 Conservative MPs, 262 Labour, 35 SNP, 12 LibDem, etc. Yes they were all involved in can-kicking.
    Glad you agree with me.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,548
    Given that all the Government needed to do was keep their traditional friends the 10 DUP and their own 317 MPs onside to maintain a working majority to get the WAB passed, one wonders how they managed to f*** this up so badly.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • thecycleclinic
    thecycleclinic Posts: 395
    Skill is how. It takes real skill to mess up so badly.
    www.thecycleclinic.co.uk
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,324
    rjsterry said:

    Given that all the Government needed to do was keep their traditional friends the 10 DUP and their own 317 MPs onside to maintain a working majority to get the WAB passed, one wonders how they managed to f*** this up so badly.

    To think that the referendum was given to shut up the Brexit Party, put the EU debate to bed, and unify the party.
    Well done all round. 🤔
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,396
    It takes a special type of skill to lose several elections on the trot though.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Stevo_666 said:

    It takes a special type of skill to lose several elections on the trot though.

    So who was the skilled one between 1997 and 2010?
    _
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,396
    rick_chasey said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    It takes a special type of skill to lose several elections on the trot though.

    So who was the skilled one between 1997 and 2010?
    Only the Lib Dems can claim to be skilled for the whole of living memory.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited December 2019
    You’re a funny one.

    Don’t think I’ve ever met someone who treats it like a football team.

    I’m not massively loyal to the LDs. If they start picking rubbish policies then I’m off. It’s not a status symbol for me.
    _
  • mr_goo
    mr_goo Posts: 3,770
    Went to a New Forest West hustings last night hosted by the UN.
    As one can imagine for the area it started off quite partisan for the boy in blue. Until he answered a question on tackling poverty and stated that there was a correlation between the poorest in society and childhood obesity..... audible gasps even from some Tory hardliners.
    The Green chap was winning my vote (I love my planet) until he stated that it was their party policy to leave NATO. Bad idea.

    I have nobody to vote for on the 12th.
    Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    mr_goo said:

    Went to a New Forest West hustings last night hosted by the UN.
    As one can imagine for the area it started off quite partisan for the boy in blue. Until he answered a question on tackling poverty and stated that there was a correlation between the poorest in society and childhood obesity..... audible gasps even from some Tory hardliners.
    The Green chap was winning my vote (I love my planet) until he stated that it was their party policy to leave NATO. Bad idea.

    I have nobody to vote for on the 12th.

    You should vote for whoever is strongest on education in the local area
  • diplodicus
    diplodicus Posts: 722
    mr_goo said:

    Went to a New Forest West hustings last night hosted by the UN.
    As one can imagine for the area it started off quite partisan for the boy in blue. Until he answered a question on tackling poverty and stated that there was a correlation between the poorest in society and childhood obesity..... audible gasps even from some Tory hardliners.
    The Green chap was winning my vote (I love my planet) until he stated that it was their party policy to leave NATO. Bad idea.

    I have nobody to vote for on the 12th.

    https://www.nhs.uk/news/obesity/children-poorer-backgrounds-more-affected-rise-childhood-obesity/

    According to this NHS link there is. Correlation and causation are not the same.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,548
    mr_goo said:

    Went to a New Forest West hustings last night hosted by the UN.
    As one can imagine for the area it started off quite partisan for the boy in blue. Until he answered a question on tackling poverty and stated that there was a correlation between the poorest in society and childhood obesity..... audible gasps even from some Tory hardliners.
    The Green chap was winning my vote (I love my planet) until he stated that it was their party policy to leave NATO. Bad idea.

    I have nobody to vote for on the 12th.

    You're unlikely to find a perfect match. Is the NATO policy an absolute deal breaker and are they remotely likely to achieve it anyway?
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • elbowloh
    elbowloh Posts: 7,078
    rick_chasey said:

    You’re a funny one.

    Don’t think I’ve ever met someone who treats it like a football team.

    I’m not massively loyal to the LDs. If they start picking rubbish policies then I’m off. It’s not a status symbol for me.

    This certainly seems the case with Tory voters. They traditionally vote Tory as they're pro business, pro union, pro law and order and fiscally prudent.

    Under the last few years, the Tories are:

    - buggering business with Brexit and Johnson went as far as to say "fuck business".
    - they've buggered law and order with 20,600 less police, courts and parole system on the brink of collapse
    - willing to cast off NI and losing them to Eire in order to "get brexit done" and pissing off the Scots and pushing them to independence
    - increasing the national debt "Public sector net debt, adjusted for inflation, rose by 53% between 2009/10 and 2016/17." from fullfact.org

    What are they for now apart from Brexit?
    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame
    Tall....
    www.seewildlife.co.uk
  • Longshot
    Longshot Posts: 940
    elbowloh said:



    What are they for now apart from Brexit?

    1. All things to all people.
    2. Liars
    3. A poor man's Trump
    4. Still better than JC

    Take your pick.

    You can fool some of the people all of the time. Concentrate on those people.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,324
    You know things are bad if No.4 is good enough justification.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,150
    pblakeney said:

    You know things are bad if No.4 is good enough justification.

    Do you trust the Conservatives to keep a lid on Johnson's worst impulses, or Labour/SNP/LD etc to keep a lid on Corbyn's? Johnson is convincing me that Corbyn without the power to do everything he wants is the better option.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,324
    My personal opinion, and it has been documented for quite a while, is that I do not trust any of them and think we are fucked.
    Not only that, it is going to get worse.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    Hung parliament certainly seems like the least worst option at the moment. But then where do you go from there...
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    rjsterry said:

    mr_goo said:

    Went to a New Forest West hustings last night hosted by the UN.
    As one can imagine for the area it started off quite partisan for the boy in blue. Until he answered a question on tackling poverty and stated that there was a correlation between the poorest in society and childhood obesity..... audible gasps even from some Tory hardliners.
    The Green chap was winning my vote (I love my planet) until he stated that it was their party policy to leave NATO. Bad idea.

    I have nobody to vote for on the 12th.

    You're unlikely to find a perfect match. Is the NATO policy an absolute deal breaker and are they remotely likely to achieve it anyway?
    I'm more surprised that he was tempted by a Party that would love to see more offshore wind farms being built!

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