BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

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  • elbowloh
    elbowloh Posts: 7,078
    bompington said:

    Hung parliament certainly seems like the least worst option at the moment. But then where do you go from there...

    Compromise and no extremism?
    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame
    Tall....
    www.seewildlife.co.uk
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,325
    Theme tune -
    Talking Heads, Road To Nowhere.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,151
    It's strange that we have gone so far in 4 years from a constructive, solid coalition that did OK (as in noone got everything they wanted), but not great (as in the smaller party got rolled over into publicly supporting policies while the larger party just adopted their popular ideas) to thinking that any coalition is unachievable. And the Lib Dems haven't helped by saying they won't work with either leader. They will, and they should.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,325
    A coalition can work as shown.
    It won’t solve Brexit though.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,151
    pblakeney said:

    A coalition can work as shown.
    It won’t solve Brexit though.

    Depends what you mean by "solve". If it means an acceptance that neither side should get everything it wants, it still might help.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,325
    kingstongraham said:

    pblakeney said:

    A coalition can work as shown.
    It won’t solve Brexit though.

    Depends what you mean by "solve". If it means an acceptance that neither side should get everything it wants, it still might help.
    I mean a coalition with opposing principles will not come to an agreement.
    Of course we would need to know Labour's principles first. Over to you, JC.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,549
    edited December 2019
    From George Parker, FT political editor.



    0.2% of GDP. Good to see that it will all be worth it.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • thecycleclinic
    thecycleclinic Posts: 395
    edited December 2019
    No one want to compromise though. Hense coaltions currently wont work and given the lib dems recent experience can you really blame them. FPTF abolition is what I am voting for. It could be the shake up we need. New parties need to emerge and currently they cant.

    At a hustings tonight the labour candidate shone. She sounded reasonable. The parties poltics stops me voting for them. Also labour dont support PR. I wish the candidate I supported could have tucked his shirt in.

    Hustings though are not well advertised. They are organised by various groups. Having lived in the same constituency for the past 16 years and looking out for them this is the first time I have even heard of where one is.

    It's like they dont want people to come. Civic poltical engagement is the foundation of a democracy. Well supported hustings are the bare minimum. Maybe 100 out of 12000 in sudbury turned out. Our democracy is not healthy because the civic side is neglected. It's not rocket science.

    www.thecycleclinic.co.uk
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    thecycleclinic said:

    No one want to compromise though. Hense coaltions currently wont work and given the lib dems recent experience can you really blame them. FPTF abolition is what I am voting for. It could be the shake up we need. New parties need to emerge and currently they cant.

    At a hustings tonight the labour candidate shone. She sounded reasonable. The parties poltics stops me voting for them. Also labour dont support PR. I wish the candidate I supported could have tucked his shirt in.

    Hustings though are not well advertised. They are organised by various groups. Having lived in the same constituency for the past 16 years and looking out for them this is the first time I have even heard of where one is.

    It's like they dont want people to come. Civic poltical engagement is the foundation of a democracy. Well supported hustings are the bare minimum. Maybe 100 out of 12000 in sudbury turned out. Our democracy is not healthy because the civic side is neglected. It's not rocket science.

    A minor party who rejects coalition may as well pack up and go home.

    No party that wins under FPTP will abolish it
  • thecycleclinic
    thecycleclinic Posts: 395
    edited December 2019
    If the lib dems go into coalition they are finished. Confidence and supply is more likely but let's face it the tories are going to win probably as labour and lib dems have too much electoral baggage.
    www.thecycleclinic.co.uk
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,151
    thecycleclinic said:

    If the lib dems go into coalition they are finished. Confidence and supply is more likely but let's face it the tories are going to win probably as labour and lib dems have too much electoral baggage.

    If that's your view, why do you want to get rid of FPTP?
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    thecycleclinic said:

    If the lib dems go into coalition they are finished. Confidence and supply is more likely but let's face it the tories are going to win probably as labour and lib dems have too much electoral baggage.

    Without the hope of coalition their role is pointless. The UK electorate just needs more time to get used to them.

    Imagine if after the election that JC is 30 short of an overall majority and SNP and LD have 40 seats each. For Swinson to say she wont do a deal whilst Sturgeon pockets IndyRef2 would be insanity.
  • john80
    john80 Posts: 2,965
    bompington said:

    Hung parliament certainly seems like the least worst option at the moment. But then where do you go from there...

    You wish for a hung parliament but don't know where we go from there. Maybe have a think about the result of your preference before you opt for it.
  • Longshot
    Longshot Posts: 940
    john80 said:

    bompington said:

    Hung parliament certainly seems like the least worst option at the moment. But then where do you go from there...

    You wish for a hung parliament but don't know where we go from there. Maybe have a think about the result of your preference before you opt for it.
    Are you suggesting that a known path is always better than an uncertain one? So, given the choice between a path leading to certain death, a different path leading to near certain death and a path with an unknown outcome, you'd pick one of the first two?
    You can fool some of the people all of the time. Concentrate on those people.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    john80 said:

    bompington said:

    Hung parliament certainly seems like the least worst option at the moment. But then where do you go from there...

    You wish for a hung parliament but don't know where we go from there. Maybe have a think about the result of your preference before you opt for it.
    Hopefully a realisation that having the two main parties head towards the extreme ends of the political spectrum is not going to end up in good governance and good decision making?
    _
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,396
    thecycleclinic said:

    If the lib dems go into coalition they are finished. Confidence and supply is more likely but let's face it the tories are going to win probably as labour and lib dems have too much electoral baggage.

    What do you mean 'if they go into coalition'? I think they've managed it on their own already, looking at the opinion polls.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,151
    My MP (Zac Goldsmith) is almost exclusively posting lots of tweets about how he has been working to save endangered species around the world. Good of him to bring it close to home and help out the increasingly rare Lib Dem likely winner.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,151
    Even in how badly it's going for the Lib Dems, it is still ludicrous that the Conservatives are forecast to get about 3 times their vote, and about 30 times the MPs. SNP forecast to get 3 times their MPs for a third of their vote.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,396
    Markets seem to be betting on a Tory win - Sterling/Euro has gone over 1.18 and Sterling/Dollar over 1.31. These volatile currencies, eh ;)
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,151
    Does that mean an extension to the withdrawal agreement is expected in the event of a Conservative win?

    Also, how times change "Results from across the country suggesting the Brexit camp was on the brink of declaring a referendum victory led to sterling reversing initial gains to leave the pound down more than 10% at $1.33, compared with $1.50 just after polling stations closed. That was the lowest since 1985."
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,549
    And have they priced in the fun in a year's time when we do the whole Brexit deadline sh**show one more time.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    Well the Lib dems have been overcome by remainia hoping this would draw remain voters to them Shock horror after three years of this most are repelled by hard brexit positions one way or the other. The tories have managed to cast themselves as the moderates. Oh my how things have really gone tits up.

    At leats the pound is up. That makes paying bills in euros and dollars a little better.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,151
    cycleclinic said:

    Well the Lib dems have been overcome by remainia hoping this would draw remain voters to them Shock horror after three years of this most are repelled by hard brexit positions one way or the other. The tories have managed to cast themselves as the moderates. Oh my how things have really gone tits up.

    At leats the pound is up. That makes paying bills in euros and dollars a little better.

    I am afraid that is dogshit. Any suggestion that hard brexit positions one way or the other is repellent doesn't explain Johnson's current polling.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,396
    kingstongraham said:

    Does that mean an extension to the withdrawal agreement is expected in the event of a Conservative win?

    Also, how times change "Results from across the country suggesting the Brexit camp was on the brink of declaring a referendum victory led to sterling reversing initial gains to leave the pound down more than 10% at $1.33, compared with $1.50 just after polling stations closed. That was the lowest since 1985."

    Who knows, but if it means Corbyn wont be in that has to be good news. And in the basis that Sterling going down was seen to be bad by people on here then Sterling going up is good, no? Or is it just bad whichever way it goes in your view?
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,396
    rjsterry said:

    And have they priced in the fun in a year's time when we do the whole Brexit deadline sh**show one more time.

    Ask the markets?

    Also see my point above.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 13,227

    Tune -

    nicked from another place
  • thecycleclinic
    thecycleclinic Posts: 395
    If your a leave voter then the lib dem position does look extreme and the tory position less extreme. It's all a matter of perspective.

    The lib dems problem is they forgot to say bad governance got us into this mess and the solution is better systems of government. That something that has been in manifesto after manifesto with PR and devolution yet somehow never gets mentioned.

    Anyway I'll be in Ipswich next thursday night vote checking for the party. I have always been curious about how the vote count works. One way to find out.
    www.thecycleclinic.co.uk
  • thecycleclinic
    thecycleclinic Posts: 395
    edited December 2019
    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Does that mean an extension to the withdrawal agreement is expected in the event of a Conservative win?

    Also, how times change "Results from across the country suggesting the Brexit camp was on the brink of declaring a referendum victory led to sterling reversing initial gains to leave the pound down more than 10% at $1.33, compared with $1.50 just after polling stations closed. That was the lowest since 1985."

    Who knows, but if it means Corbyn wont be in that has to be good news. And in the basis that Sterling going down was seen to be bad by people on here then Sterling going up is good, no? Or is it just bad whichever way it goes in your view?
    Stronger sterling is a plus for me. The pound gaining on the assumption of a tory majority, just shows how unimportant which outcome of brexit there is now. what is effectively the tory nodeal plus transition period is now favourable to many. a path to an outcome is now all that seems to matter.
    www.thecycleclinic.co.uk
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,151
    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Does that mean an extension to the withdrawal agreement is expected in the event of a Conservative win?

    Also, how times change "Results from across the country suggesting the Brexit camp was on the brink of declaring a referendum victory led to sterling reversing initial gains to leave the pound down more than 10% at $1.33, compared with $1.50 just after polling stations closed. That was the lowest since 1985."

    Who knows, but if it means Corbyn wont be in that has to be good news. And in the basis that Sterling going down was seen to be bad by people on here then Sterling going up is good, no? Or is it just bad whichever way it goes in your view?
    If you read anything into it, it means that the markets in general think that the UK have a more certain future under a Conservative government, and that it is about as bad as they thought it would be three years ago. Under Labour, they thought it would be more uncertain, and probably worse for whatever it is moves the markets.

    I don't know much about what it is that moves the currency markets beyond the traders not liking uncertainty.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,151
    The current position of the Conservatives is that any trade deal will be easy because we are currently aligned in every way, which only makes sense if we are going to stay aligned, which is completely at odds with the justification for Brexit.

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