BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

pblakeney

Wayne Plunger wrote:

Just going off tangent a minute, yesterday it took two hours to disembark the Santander - Plymouth ferry.

Have never seen "border force" operatives at Plymouth scanning passports before but this was the protocol, in the past just flash your UK passport and get a cheery wave.

Also Guardia Civil at Santander port checking every vehicle, usually 1 in 50 if they can be bothered, portent of things to come?

Have you seen the news from yesterday about a lorry?
Could be pertinent.

robert88

PBlakeney wrote:

Wayne Plunger wrote:

Just going off tangent a minute, yesterday it took two hours to disembark the Santander - Plymouth ferry.

Have never seen "border force" operatives at Plymouth scanning passports before but this was the protocol, in the past just flash your UK passport and get a cheery wave.

Also Guardia Civil at Santander port checking every vehicle, usually 1 in 50 if they can be bothered, portent of things to come?

Have you seen the news from yesterday about a lorry?
Could be pertinent.

In that if they check every vehicle something as hideous as that could be prevented?

Assuming the checks are effective and not window dressing.

robert88

It seems to me that Johnson's performance so far has been God's gift to an opposition party. Even one led badly.

Is he trying to be as ignorant as the US version? Perhaps we should call him Boris Trump?

pblakeney

Robert88 wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

Wayne Plunger wrote:

Just going off tangent a minute, yesterday it took two hours to disembark the Santander - Plymouth ferry.

Have never seen "border force" operatives at Plymouth scanning passports before but this was the protocol, in the past just flash your UK passport and get a cheery wave.

Also Guardia Civil at Santander port checking every vehicle, usually 1 in 50 if they can be bothered, portent of things to come?

Have you seen the news from yesterday about a lorry?
Could be pertinent.

In that if they check every vehicle something as hideous as that could be prevented?

Assuming the checks are effective and not window dressing.

In that they want to be seen to be doing something.
Everything will return to normal within the week. Until the next time.

pblakeney

orraloon wrote:

So, what are the benefits to the dUK of these ToryBoys driving this exit of the EU? Economic, financial, social? Just seeking some actual real numbers. Never mind the bolloxs. Anyone?

Allegedly the new deal omits workers rights protection.
Surprised?
Oh, and the Tories just voted against protecting the NHS from privatisation so you know where that is heading.

rick_chasey

I do like the contrast between “we survived the Blitz we can survive this” and “we’re sick and tired of it just get it done”

surrey_commuter

Rick Chasey wrote:

I do like the contrast between “we survived the Blitz we can survive this” and “we’re sick and tired of it just get it done”

With the Blitz analogy is it possible that they thought we were bombing ourselves

Stevo_666

Jez mon wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

The interesting part is working out how the polls turn into seats right?

I suspect that upon an election being called, a sufficiently soft position on brexit or a policy to have another referendum would result in labour climbing. The Conservatives were the grown up and responsible party, but have let a internal issue grind biritish politics to a halt for 3 years. What do they have to pursuade floating voters? Not a lot.

it might be that whilst they're generally unappealing the alternative is far worse....

Yep. If someone on here can point to a better alternative that has a hope in hell of getting elected, then we can consider that.

How about, you know, reading the manefestos and making a decision based on the policies of the parties.

Or do you actually think the Conservatives have done a good job. I'm not asking a hypothetical would Labour or some kind of coalition done better here either.

I usually do read the manifestos for two reasons. One amusement and two knowing what I might be up against if certain parties get lucky.

I'll do the same next time and put my cross next to the party that best fits my criteria.

Per the other thread, the tories have definitely succeeded so far one vital area, which is keeping Labour out of power

Alejandrosdog

Stevo 666 wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

The interesting part is working out how the polls turn into seats right?

I suspect that upon an election being called, a sufficiently soft position on brexit or a policy to have another referendum would result in labour climbing. The Conservatives were the grown up and responsible party, but have let a internal issue grind biritish politics to a halt for 3 years. What do they have to pursuade floating voters? Not a lot.

it might be that whilst they're generally unappealing the alternative is far worse....

Yep. If someone on here can point to a better alternative that has a hope in hell of getting elected, then we can consider that.

How about, you know, reading the manefestos and making a decision based on the policies of the parties.

Or do you actually think the Conservatives have done a good job. I'm not asking a hypothetical would Labour or some kind of coalition done better here either.

I usually do read the manifestos for two reasons. One amusement and two knowing what I might be up against if certain parties get lucky.

I'll do the same next time and put my cross next to the party that best fits my criteria.

Per the other thread, the tories have definitely succeeded so far one vital area, which is keeping Labour out of power

I think Corbyn, that fat black woman and the other loons have probably kept labour out of power

elbowloh

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

I do like the contrast between “we survived the Blitz we can survive this” and “we’re sick and tired of it just get it done”

With the Blitz analogy is it possible that they thought we were bombing ourselves

Also, i think we didn't vote for the blitz.

Longshot

elbowloh wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

I do like the contrast between “we survived the Blitz we can survive this” and “we’re sick and tired of it just get it done”

With the Blitz analogy is it possible that they thought we were bombing ourselves

Also, i think we didn't vote for the blitz.

We probably would now.

pinno

PBlakeney wrote:

Wayne Plunger wrote:

Just going off tangent a minute, yesterday it took two hours to disembark the Santander - Plymouth ferry.

Have never seen "border force" operatives at Plymouth scanning passports before but this was the protocol, in the past just flash your UK passport and get a cheery wave.

Also Guardia Civil at Santander port checking every vehicle, usually 1 in 50 if they can be bothered, portent of things to come?

Have you seen the news from yesterday about a lorry?
Could be pertinent.

That was my initial thought and I even posted (and deleted) it except the news regarding the truck didn't break till after WP had been through border checks.

bobmcstuff

First Aspect wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

It would be akin to voting for Brexit and then buggering off to Mallorca.

Oh when you put it like that it sounds dastardly.

For the record I voted no and remain. Because I'm not an innumerate xenophobe. And let's face it, we can argue the toss as much as we want about Brexit but all it really came down to is good old not liking foreigners. A fine British tradition.

The indyref is no different.

There's a bit more to it than that, I think I'm being unfairly characterised here

I just feel, based on my experience in both places, that politics in Scotland and England have been/are diverging so significantly that I don't see how the current system can continue to work properly (depending on who you talk to it already isn't working properly).

Although having said that devolution seems to be working quite well for Scotland.

(the move back to England was forced rather than chosen, my wife was made redundant - I would have stuck around).

pinno

PBlakeney wrote:

orraloon wrote:

So, what are the benefits to the dUK of these ToryBoys driving this exit of the EU? Economic, financial, social? Just seeking some actual real numbers. Never mind the bolloxs. Anyone?

Allegedly the new deal omits workers rights protection.
Surprised?
Oh, and the Tories just voted against protecting the NHS from privatisation so you know where that is heading.

Although the vote to agree a timetable has gone through, surely this period of scrutiny will prove to be one helluva stumbling block. I cannot see any agreement on these issues and therefore, I cannot see any movement. ...and within a 3 month timescale?!A GE will produce a hung parliament and you will add say, a dozen Brexit party MP's into the mix.

As said 'a clusterf*ck'.

Longshot

This is what happens when you let people have opinions.

pblakeney

Pinno wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

Wayne Plunger wrote:

Just going off tangent a minute, yesterday it took two hours to disembark the Santander - Plymouth ferry.

Have never seen "border force" operatives at Plymouth scanning passports before but this was the protocol, in the past just flash your UK passport and get a cheery wave.

Also Guardia Civil at Santander port checking every vehicle, usually 1 in 50 if they can be bothered, portent of things to come?

Have you seen the news from yesterday about a lorry?
Could be pertinent.

That was my initial thought and I even posted (and deleted) it except the news regarding the truck didn't break till after WP had been through border checks.

Border forces alerted before the media?

kingstongraham

Pinno wrote:

Although the vote to agree a timetable has gone through,

Did I miss something?

Stevo_666

Longshot wrote:

This is what happens when you let people have opinions.

A lot of this thread appears to involve complaining about that very point.

Alejandrosdog

Stevo 666 wrote:

Longshot wrote:

This is what happens when you let people have opinions.

A lot of this thread appears to involve complaining about that very point.

It's ok. Once Comrade Corbyn has taken power and the scum have been bankrupted and thrown on the street there will be no dissent.

kingstongraham

Stevo 666 wrote:

Longshot wrote:

This is what happens when you let people have opinions.

A lot of this thread appears to involve complaining about that very point.

Was that supposed to be ironic?

Stevo_666

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Longshot wrote:

This is what happens when you let people have opinions.

A lot of this thread appears to involve complaining about that very point.

It's ok. Once Comrade Corbyn has taken power and the scum have been bankrupted and thrown on the street there will be no dissent.

My cunning plan to stop them is still working. Let's hope I've done enough...

Stevo_666

KingstonGraham wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Longshot wrote:

This is what happens when you let people have opinions.

A lot of this thread appears to involve complaining about that very point.

Was that supposed to be ironic?

You can take it whichever way leads to ths least amount of smartarse centre lefties picking pointless arguments over it

kingstongraham

Stevo 666 wrote:

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Longshot wrote:

This is what happens when you let people have opinions.

A lot of this thread appears to involve complaining about that very point.

It's ok. Once Comrade Corbyn has taken power and the scum have been bankrupted and thrown on the street there will be no dissent.

My cunning plan to stop them is still working. Let's hope I've done enough...

I hate to point it out again, but a better way to prevent the rise of Corbyn would have been not voting for him. You were attacking the relative moderates, not the extremists.

bompington

PBlakeney wrote:

orraloon wrote:

So, what are the benefits to the dUK of these ToryBoys driving this exit of the EU? Economic, financial, social? Just seeking some actual real numbers. Never mind the bolloxs. Anyone?

Allegedly the new deal omits workers rights protection.
Surprised?
Oh, and the Tories just voted against protecting the NHS from privatisation so you know where that is heading.

The fetishisation of the NHS is a strange, strange thing. And so is the horror at the idea of any kind of privatisation of the NHS.

Have you ever been to a GP? You do know that the vast majority of GPs are private contractors, don't you?

Or take the (almost all superior) health systems in other western European countries - they all have a higher proportion of private practice than here: a 10 second google reveals, for example, that 20% of all Swedish hospital care is private.

Of course there are legitimate worries about what kind of private companies will get contracts. But that's a matter of governance: and I don't disagree that Brexit (and the people pushing it) may well be prone to letting predatory companies in.

But people seem to assume that the only alternative to the NHS as it is now is the US system: simply not true.

bompington

Stevo 666 wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Longshot wrote:

This is what happens when you let people have opinions.

A lot of this thread appears to involve complaining about that very point.

Was that supposed to be ironic?

You can take it whichever way leads to ths least amount of smartarse centre lefties picking pointless arguments over it

You do know, don't you, that there are quite a lot of posters here that couldn't be described as lefties in any sense, yet find your tedious sophistry and trolling to be quite sick in the context of the general clusterfluff that our politics has become?

rick_chasey

bompington wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

orraloon wrote:

So, what are the benefits to the dUK of these ToryBoys driving this exit of the EU? Economic, financial, social? Just seeking some actual real numbers. Never mind the bolloxs. Anyone?

Allegedly the new deal omits workers rights protection.
Surprised?
Oh, and the Tories just voted against protecting the NHS from privatisation so you know where that is heading.

The fetishisation of the NHS is a strange, strange thing. And so is the horror at the idea of any kind of privatisation of the NHS.

Have you ever been to a GP? You do know that the vast majority of GPs are private contractors, don't you?

Or take the (almost all superior) health systems in other western European countries - they all have a higher proportion of private practice than here: a 10 second google reveals, for example, that 20% of all Swedish hospital care is private.

Of course there are legitimate worries about what kind of private companies will get contracts. But that's a matter of governance: and I don't disagree that Brexit (and the people pushing it) may well be prone to letting predatory companies in.

But people seem to assume that the only alternative to the NHS as it is now is the US system: simply not true.

This isn't the thread for this but I think there are some nuances you're missing out on, mainly around quality of public health vs % of GDP spent on healthcare.

UK is unusually efficient compared to most other comparable countries.

I have also had some fairly dodgy experiences in the UK on both sides of the NHS/private debate that I think are quite illustrative of the challenges around both.

I would venture that NHS is, net, a better solution on paper, if it's managed optimally (which is clearly isn't).

john80

The process for leaving is that all current eu rules are transferred to uk law. So if we take workers rights for example you would have the same rights as before unless.

A minority tory government manages to get amendments into the legislation which seems unlikely given their current win rate and general timescales. Post brexit they bring legislation to parliament to erode workers rights which again they would have to get through parliament.

Ironically brexit and the current parliamentary numbers gives labour, snp and lid dems the opportunity to put in place significant changes to increase workers rights that the tories would struggle to stop. It actually makes sense to give parliament full flexibility going forwards by not commiting ourselves to matching the eu on large areas of policy. Hardly taking back control is it?

ddraver

No Brexit next week...

https://twitter.com/PARLYapp/status/118 ... 04704?s=19

Without wanting to join in the bleating up there, a good opposition would point out that apparently the government isn't in so much of a rush then...

bianchimoon

KingstonGraham wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Longshot wrote:

This is what happens when you let people have opinions.

A lot of this thread appears to involve complaining about that very point.

It's ok. Once Comrade Corbyn has taken power and the scum have been bankrupted and thrown on the street there will be no dissent.

My cunning plan to stop them is still working. Let's hope I've done enough...

I hate to point it out again, but a better way to prevent the rise of Corbyn would have been not voting for him. You were attacking the relative moderates, not the extremists.

Your wasting your time, his fear of possibly having to pay more tax consumes him

rolf_f

bompington wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

orraloon wrote:

So, what are the benefits to the dUK of these ToryBoys driving this exit of the EU? Economic, financial, social? Just seeking some actual real numbers. Never mind the bolloxs. Anyone?

Allegedly the new deal omits workers rights protection.
Surprised?
Oh, and the Tories just voted against protecting the NHS from privatisation so you know where that is heading.

The fetishisation of the NHS is a strange, strange thing. And so is the horror at the idea of any kind of privatisation of the NHS.

Have you ever been to a GP? You do know that the vast majority of GPs are private contractors, don't you?

Or take the (almost all superior) health systems in other western European countries - they all have a higher proportion of private practice than here: a 10 second google reveals, for example, that 20% of all Swedish hospital care is private.

Of course there are legitimate worries about what kind of private companies will get contracts. But that's a matter of governance: and I don't disagree that Brexit (and the people pushing it) may well be prone to letting predatory companies in.

But people seem to assume that the only alternative to the NHS as it is now is the US system: simply not true.

The concept that something works in Sweden means that it could work here is, I fear, woefully misguided....... We'd screw it up. Deep down you know this (hopefully).