BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

robert88

Coopster the 1st wrote:

I'm very much enjoying the irony that MP's who have completely ignored the referendum result are now outraged that they are to be ignored

We are a representative democracy not a direct democracy. The referendum was a massive breach of that principle that required people to make a decision about a very complex issue. In theory the issue could have been decided by a single vote. Both sides of the debate introduced dishonesty to win their cause but the Leave campaign were far more willing to do so than Remain, especially the man recently installed as our leader.

rick_chasey

So having slept on this (not very long), it’s a man with populist tendencies makes moves to reduce parliamentary influence to do populist stuff.

So basically populist does populist stuff.

coopster_the_1st

KingstonGraham wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

I'm very much enjoying the irony that MP's who have completely ignored the referendum result are now outraged that they are to be ignored

I really don't know what Boris will do if it comes down to it and he might actually have to ram through the chaotic brexit. There's still a chance he'll bottle it, don't you think?

If he bottles it, he trashes the Conservative Party as millions of voters will make their move to TBP permenant.

As he achieved over 50% of Tory MP support in the leadership contest I would say Boris and his colleagues are very aware how their potential voters will react.

Everything I have seen from Boris since becoming leader and PM has demonstrated to me that we finally have the right man for the job

Stevo_666

KingstonGraham wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

I'm very much enjoying the irony that MP's who have completely ignored the referendum result are now outraged that they are to be ignored

I really don't know what Boris will do if it comes down to it and he might actually have to ram through the chaotic brexit. There's still a chance he'll bottle it, don't you think?

Unlikely. As much as people may disagree with what he is trying to do, he does appear to have the balls to do it.

Whether he will be stopped in time by others is a different question.

ballysmate

Am not a great authority on the machinations of Parliament so I could well be wrong but from what I understand

MPs voted in July to prevent the PM suspending Parliament to force through "No Deal". BJ has complied as Parliament will return to hear a Queen's Speech on 14 Oct.

As Bean pointed out some pages back, this Parliament has been in session for an extraordinary long time, we have a new PM and is overdue a Queen's Speech outlining the governments business.

All but 25 MPs voted to continue with their long summer break , knowing that there would be another 6 week break for conference season where they would enjoy the comforts of a nice hotel, usually by the seaside. They are now outraged that they are losing 6 days opportunity to debate. Priceless.

They have used every political move at their disposal (save giving up their summer holiday, obviously) to continue blocking any deal, hoping that the EU would keep granting extensions. Now they fear that they have been out manoeuvred by another legitimate political move

MPs from both sides of the argument should have got their heads out of their collective arses months ago and got a deal done.

Pross

Stevo 666 wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

I'm very much enjoying the irony that MP's who have completely ignored the referendum result are now outraged that they are to be ignored

I really don't know what Boris will do if it comes down to it and he might actually have to ram through the chaotic brexit. There's still a chance he'll bottle it, don't you think?

Unlikely. As much as people may disagree with what he is trying to do, he does appear to have the balls to do it.

Whether he will be stopped in time by others is a different question.

Is that a good thing if it results in him losing a vote of no confidence and we end up with a leftie bollox coalition government (or even a Corbyn government)?

rick_chasey

Ballysmate wrote:

MPs from both sides of the argument should have got their heads out of their collective arses months ago and got a deal done.

In fairness, that is more difficult to do if parliament is suspended (which, as I learned last night, is different to 'recess', where plenty of work still goes on. Suspended really means nothing is allowed to be done).

rjsterry

Pross wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

I'm very much enjoying the irony that MP's who have completely ignored the referendum result are now outraged that they are to be ignored

I really don't know what Boris will do if it comes down to it and he might actually have to ram through the chaotic brexit. There's still a chance he'll bottle it, don't you think?

Unlikely. As much as people may disagree with what he is trying to do, he does appear to have the balls to do it.

Whether he will be stopped in time by others is a different question.

Is that a good thing if it results in him losing a vote of no confidence and we end up with a leftie bollox coalition government (or even a Corbyn government)?

It's a gamble that betrays the weakness of his position and how few options he has.

rick_chasey

Hannan is still about an eight as smart as he thinks he is.

This stone cold classic from the moron's thinking man.

https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/statu ... 8179624967

have had constituency cases of EU nationals being denied settled status despite living here for years. This is a breach of the assurances I and other Leavers gave during the referendum. Please help sort this out @patel4witham before we end up with another Windrush scandal.

haydenm

Robert88 wrote:

Maybe Brexit is no longer the crux of the matter and was simply a vehicle for a power-grab.

It certainly was for Boris.

rick_chasey

TheBigBean wrote:

I'm still intrigued whether all the outraged MPs were planning on cancelling the conference recess, because no one has mentioned that so far.

So on this, as per the other post; recess is rather different to prorogation, it turns out.

rolf_f

TheBigBean wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Leave voters would blame Corbyn more than May or Johnson? Amazing. Shows the power of tribalism.

I found it interesting that remain voters would blame the MPs who didn't vote for May's deal because they wanted a harder Brexit (10s of MPs). Why not blame the ones that didn't vote for it, because they wanted a softer Brexit (100s of MPs).

That will confuse Coopster who believes that May's deal was BRINO and so there presumably couldn't be a softer Brexit......

ballysmate

Rick Chasey wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

MPs from both sides of the argument should have got their heads out of their collective arses months ago and got a deal done.

In fairness, that is more difficult to do if parliament is suspended (which, as I learned last night, is different to 'recess', where plenty of work still goes on. Suspended really means nothing is allowed to be done).

Undoubtedly true. But you will no doubt see I was using a past tense and not a future tense.

cycleclinic

We will have to wait and see how this plans out. Like too many I see doom and gloom when dodgy news appears and yet the gloom is simply because parliament is still in recess. I think this is the problem. 3 years of roller coaster and we are no further forward than 3 years ago.

We are in need of a constitution.

Borus wont bottle it. Hes committed now. No deal is inevitable. In fact it was the logical outcome of the governments stance on the Brexit negotiations. The only thing that can change this is the collapse of government but that requires Tories to bail and Corbyn to be the leader he is not.

That deal looks good now doesn't it. Shame our mps thought something better could have been done.

rick_chasey

Ballysmate wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

MPs from both sides of the argument should have got their heads out of their collective arses months ago and got a deal done.

In fairness, that is more difficult to do if parliament is suspended (which, as I learned last night, is different to 'recess', where plenty of work still goes on. Suspended really means nothing is allowed to be done).

Undoubtedly true. But you will no doubt see I was using a past tense and not a future tense.

Also true, but if you've ever worked with offices or teams in other nations, you'll have noticed Brits have this ingrained cultural habit of leaving stuff to the very last minute.

If the stereotypes ring true from time to time, and they have done in my limited experience of doing so; German firms can infuriate with too much focus on process, Dutch firms too much on letting everyone have a say, and the Brits for doing everything last minute.

As per the flurry of activity in parliament in March, Brits need deadlines to get sh!t done and I think the MPs fall into that category.

cycleclinic

Rick Chasey wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

MPs from both sides of the argument should have got their heads out of their collective arses months ago and got a deal done.

In fairness, that is more difficult to do if parliament is suspended (which, as I learned last night, is different to 'recess', where plenty of work still goes on. Suspended really means nothing is allowed to be done).

Undoubtedly true. But you will no doubt see I was using a past tense and not a future tense.

Also true, but if you've ever worked with offices or teams in other nations, you'll have noticed Brits have this ingrained cultural habit of leaving stuff to the very last minute.

If the stereotypes ring true from time to time, and they have done in my limited experience of doing so; German firms can infuriate with too much focus on process, Dutch firms too much on letting everyone have a say, and the Brits for doing everything last minute.

As per the flurry of activity in parliament in March, Brits need deadlines to get sh!t done and I think the MPs fall into that category.

This is the only hope we have.

ballysmate

thecycleclinic wrote:

We will have to wait and see how this plans out. Like too many I see doom and gloom when dodgy news appears and yet the gloom is simply because parliament is still in recess. I think this is the problem. 3 years of roller coaster and we are no further forward than 3 years ago.

We are in need of a constitution.

Borus wont bottle it. Hes committed now. No deal is inevitable. In fact it was the logical outcome of the governments stance on the Brexit negotiations. The only thing that can change this is the collapse of government but that requires Tories to bail and Corbyn to be the leader he is not.

That deal looks good now doesn't it. Shame our mps thought something better could have been done.

Yep

viewtopic.php?f=40088&t=13028650&p=20493919&hilit=town#p20493919

rjsterry

Worth recapping what assorted cabinet ministers said about proroguing parliament.
Liz Truss

“He wants to bring parliament with him,” she said. She was asked: “He’s definitely ruling out proroguing or suspending parliament, is that right?” Her answer was: “That’s right.”

Matt Hancock

goes against everything those men who waded onto those beaches fought & died for – and I will not have it

Amber Rudd

The idea of leaving the EU to take back more control into parliament and to consider the idea of closing parliament to do that is the most extraordinary idea I’ve ever heard,

Sajid Javid

You don't deliver democracy by trashing democracy.' - you can't just shut down parliament

Michael Gove

I think it will be wrong for many reasons. I think it would not be true to the best traditions of British democracy

Nicky Morgan

You cannot say you are going to take back control … and then go: ‘Oh, by the way, we are just going to shut parliament down for a couple of months, so we are just going to drift out on a no deal

Andrea Leadsom

Asked in July if she would go along with a plan to suspend parliament to ensure a no-deal Brexit, Leadsom, a leading supporter of Boris Johnson, and now the business secretary, said: “No I don’t believe I would and I don’t believe it would happen.”

ballysmate

rjsterry wrote:

Worth recapping what assorted cabinet ministers said about proroguing parliament.
Liz Truss

“He wants to bring parliament with him,” she said. She was asked: “He’s definitely ruling out proroguing or suspending parliament, is that right?” Her answer was: “That’s right.”

Matt Hancock

goes against everything those men who waded onto those beaches fought & died for – and I will not have it

Amber Rudd

The idea of leaving the EU to take back more control into parliament and to consider the idea of closing parliament to do that is the most extraordinary idea I’ve ever heard,

Sajid Javid

You don't deliver democracy by trashing democracy.' - you can't just shut down parliament

Michael Gove

I think it will be wrong for many reasons. I think it would not be true to the best traditions of British democracy

Nicky Morgan

You cannot say you are going to take back control … and then go: ‘Oh, by the way, we are just going to shut parliament down for a couple of months, so we are just going to drift out on a no deal

Andrea Leadsom

Asked in July if she would go along with a plan to suspend parliament to ensure a no-deal Brexit, Leadsom, a leading supporter of Boris Johnson, and now the business secretary, said: “No I don’t believe I would and I don’t believe it would happen.”

He hasn't done so though has he? Those quotes. I assume are in relation to proroguing to force through a no deal brexit.
If he had, Parliament would return in November.
MPs passed a bill in July to expressly preventing him doing so.

haydenm

I heard IDS on R4 last night berating MPs saying things like 'if they wanted more time they should have got on with it when they had the chance' whilst at the same time pretending this has nothing to do with Brexit and they aren't losing that much time. Which is it?

C*nt.

haydenm

Ballysmate wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Worth recapping what assorted cabinet ministers said about proroguing parliament.
Liz Truss

“He wants to bring parliament with him,” she said. She was asked: “He’s definitely ruling out proroguing or suspending parliament, is that right?” Her answer was: “That’s right.”

Matt Hancock

goes against everything those men who waded onto those beaches fought & died for – and I will not have it

Amber Rudd

The idea of leaving the EU to take back more control into parliament and to consider the idea of closing parliament to do that is the most extraordinary idea I’ve ever heard,

Sajid Javid

You don't deliver democracy by trashing democracy.' - you can't just shut down parliament

Michael Gove

I think it will be wrong for many reasons. I think it would not be true to the best traditions of British democracy

Nicky Morgan

You cannot say you are going to take back control … and then go: ‘Oh, by the way, we are just going to shut parliament down for a couple of months, so we are just going to drift out on a no deal

Andrea Leadsom

Asked in July if she would go along with a plan to suspend parliament to ensure a no-deal Brexit, Leadsom, a leading supporter of Boris Johnson, and now the business secretary, said: “No I don’t believe I would and I don’t believe it would happen.”

He hasn't done so though has he? Those quotes. I assume are in relation to proroguing to force through a no deal brexit.
If he had, Parliament would return in November.
MPs passed a bill in July to expressly preventing him doing so.

Similar effect but with a thin layer of semi plausible deniability.

rjsterry

Not sure I follow you there Bally. What are you saying he hasn't done?
He definitely has prorogued parliament. On the Queen's headed paper.

tailwindhome

haydenm

rjsterry wrote:

Not sure I follow you there Bally. What are you saying he hasn't done?

They were talking about him proroguing over the deadline to stop any possible intervention, whereas this stops short. IBS made that point in the interview also, the interviewer said that if this has nothing to do with brexit, why is it weeks longer than any other time this has happened? He ignored it and started berating MPs again (which I have a bit of sympathy for)

ballysmate

Wot Hayden said

tailwindhome

HaydenM wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Not sure I follow you there Bally. What are you saying he hasn't done?

They were talking about him proroguing over the deadline to stop any possible intervention, whereas this stops short. IBS made that point in the interview also, the interviewer said that if this has nothing to do with brexit, why is it weeks longer than any other time this has happened? He ignored it and started berating MPs again (which I have a bit of sympathy for)

IDS?

This guy.

Iain Duncan Smith MP
@MPIainDS
·
27m
Remainers have tried every trick in the book for three years to thwart #Brexit but now they are on the receiving they just can’t take it. Well, the remainers have had their time and now as the British people voted to leave we must deliver Brexit by the 31st Oct

tailwindhome

I've no doubt that the forked tongue messaging from the government is entirely to get the Remain side to focus on the forked tongue messaging from the government.

john80

It is a little bit amusing that parliament taking a break is a affront to democracy yet an overwhelming majority of MP's voting for article 50 then spending three years doing their best to prevent the UK leaving the EU after they asked the nation in a fairly well publicised referendum is democratic.

tailwindhome

john80 wrote:

It is a little bit amusing that parliament taking a break is a affront to democracy yet an overwhelming majority of MP's voting for article 50 then spending three years doing their best to prevent the UK leaving the EU after they asked the nation in a fairly well publicised referendum is democratic.

Elected representatives holding the government to account is entirely democratic.

TheBigBean

Rick Chasey wrote:

TheBigBean wrote:

I'm still intrigued whether all the outraged MPs were planning on cancelling the conference recess, because no one has mentioned that so far.

So on this, as per the other post; recess is rather different to prorogation, it turns out.

Not a lot has happened in the summer recess.