BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
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Or any one of the EU27 which could potentially veto it.briantrumpet wrote:
"No, you can't make me sign that letter. Not going to do it. And anyway, I was crossing my fingers. Yah boo sucks to you, Letwin!"Pross wrote:Proper Kevin the Teenager behaviour by Boris but listening to the radio it seems to have played well with his base.
It'll be interesting to see how the EU respond to it."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMxRDTfzgpUStevo 666 wrote:Time is is not limitless here even there there is another extension. And given what has happened after the last extension, there is not a lot of evidence that another one will do much good.0 -
mfin wrote:The fact remains that 52/48 was the equivalent of two drinks one slightly fuller than the other, but one was fuller as it had a floating turd in it. That turd represented racists, xenophobes and those without the slightest bit of mental agility to match their own false attributions of why they feel the country is not in a state that they want.
This, unfortunately, is true.
It only takes the vote of a small percentage of the above to swing it in the favour of an exit.
I would hate to leave the EU based on the fact that the xenophobes and the disillusioned voted to leave based on some misguided notion that a white, foreigner free Nirvana was in the offing.
I mean no offence to the more sentient leave voters, that's an aside but if you were on a desert island with 40 people of which 5 were just plain thick and there was a vote on something critical where all of the 40 were allowed to vote...
I notice that the usual leave protagonists have gone very quiet tonight.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Personally I've always been in favour of weighting your vote according to your IQ. Not sure Labour would ever go for it though.Pinno wrote:mfin wrote:The fact remains that 52/48 was the equivalent of two drinks one slightly fuller than the other, but one was fuller as it had a floating turd in it. That turd represented racists, xenophobes and those without the slightest bit of mental agility to match their own false attributions of why they feel the country is not in a state that they want.
This, unfortunately, is true.
It only takes the vote of a small percentage of the above to swing it in the favour of an exit.
I would hate to leave the EU based on the fact that the xenophobes and the disillusioned voted to leave based on some misguided notion that a white, foreigner free Nirvana was in the offing.
I mean no offence to the more sentient leave voters, that's an aside but if you were on a desert island with 40 people of which 5 were just plain thick and there was a vote on something critical where all of the 40 were allowed to vote...
I notice that the usual leave protagonists have gone very quiet tonight."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
No we don't...briantrumpet wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMxRDTfzgpUStevo 666 wrote:Time is is not limitless here even there there is another extension. And given what has happened after the last extension, there is not a lot of evidence that another one will do much good."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Ballysmate wrote:mfin wrote:It's disgusting how so many MPs talk in absolutes that the public are fed up and just want brexit done. It's a sweeping generalisation with absolutely no substantiation.
There are definitely huge amounts of people who are not in the slightest bit inclined to have brexit put through just because they are somehow 'fed up with delays'.
1 million people managed to make it to London to march today against leaving.
Politicians don't speak even for the spread of opinion of their constituents. This has always been the case but surely never so much as now.
The fact remains that 52/48 was the equivalent of two drinks one slightly fuller than the other, but one was fuller as it had a floating turd in it. That turd represented racists, xenophobes and those without the slightest bit of mental agility to match their own false attributions of why they feel the country is not in a state that they want.
People really need to be incredibly patient. The issue of leaving or remaining in the EU is not one that should be sped through, a few years, and even a few years more to work this out is not 'annoying' it is simple sensible and diligent.
A million people eh? What do we make of that? Not even the difference between leave and remain.
Attendance on pro brexit marches has been pitiful. The nation doesn't want brexit any longer.0 -
Well, perhaps we should. Think positive, and anything's possible.Stevo 666 wrote:
No we don't...briantrumpet wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMxRDTfzgpUStevo 666 wrote:Time is is not limitless here even there there is another extension. And given what has happened after the last extension, there is not a lot of evidence that another one will do much good.
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I'm happy for anyone to try asking the EU for an indefinite extension but its highly unlikely. Positivity should always go hand in hand with a dose of realismbriantrumpet wrote:
Well, perhaps we should. Think positive, and anything's possible.Stevo 666 wrote:
No we don't...briantrumpet wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMxRDTfzgpUStevo 666 wrote:Time is is not limitless here even there there is another extension. And given what has happened after the last extension, there is not a lot of evidence that another one will do much good.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Ballysmate wrote:mfin wrote:It's disgusting how so many MPs talk in absolutes that the public are fed up and just want brexit done. It's a sweeping generalisation with absolutely no substantiation.
There are definitely huge amounts of people who are not in the slightest bit inclined to have brexit put through just because they are somehow 'fed up with delays'.
1 million people managed to make it to London to march today against leaving.
Politicians don't speak even for the spread of opinion of their constituents. This has always been the case but surely never so much as now.
The fact remains that 52/48 was the equivalent of two drinks one slightly fuller than the other, but one was fuller as it had a floating turd in it. That turd represented racists, xenophobes and those without the slightest bit of mental agility to match their own false attributions of why they feel the country is not in a state that they want.
People really need to be incredibly patient. The issue of leaving or remaining in the EU is not one that should be sped through, a few years, and even a few years more to work this out is not 'annoying' it is simple sensible and diligent.
I assume that if it had been 52/48 the other way you would be telling Leavers to suck it up.
A million people eh? What do we make of that? Not even the difference between leave and remain.
Or 64 million are quite happy to leave. Quite meaningless
No, I would be saying it is similarly close but flipped, and that the leave vote glass still had a floating turd in it making it appear as full as it was.
Well, a million might not be the difference between leave and remain, but why is that relevant? What is notable is that a million people descending in one place in a country with the population we have certainly does not happen often.
There is a lot of strong opinion and feeling, but politicians talking saying what the public's opinion is is nothing but crap and it is spouted in order to try win over more opinion and momentum.
There is absolutely no need for talk of 'needing to get things done' which silently infers 'at whatever cost or detail'. It's dumbed down rhetoric used to compound the opinions of dumb, impatient people.
People who decide timescales trump detail and diligence are idiots and politicians that do the same are shamefully playing to and even creating and stimulating that dumb audience.
Brexit can happen but the detail is everything and that can take as much time as it takes for me, far too much is at stake for dumbed down posturing by a bunch of mostly out of touch politicians.0 -
Quite right. Apparently it comes down to only 650 people.Ballysmate wrote:I assume that if it had been 52/48 the other way you would be telling Leavers to suck it up.
A million people eh? What do we make of that? Not even the difference between leave and remain.
Or 64 million are quite happy to leave. Quite meaninglessThe above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Ah, that 'indefinite extension' is called 'revoking Article 50', and it's totally cool, totally legal. More legal than Johnson thinking that sending an unsigned letter gets him out of asking for a short extension.Stevo 666 wrote:
I'm happy for anyone to try asking the EU for an indefinite extension but its highly unlikely. Positivity should always go hand in hand with a dose of realismbriantrumpet wrote:
Well, perhaps we should. Think positive, and anything's possible.Stevo 666 wrote:
No we don't...briantrumpet wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMxRDTfzgpUStevo 666 wrote:Time is is not limitless here even there there is another extension. And given what has happened after the last extension, there is not a lot of evidence that another one will do much good.0 -
I know you want that to happen: how likely do you think that is and how do you see it happening?briantrumpet wrote:
Ah, that 'indefinite extension' is called 'revoking Article 50', and it's totally cool, totally legal. More legal than Johnson thinking that sending an unsigned letter gets him out of asking for a short extension.Stevo 666 wrote:
I'm happy for anyone to try asking the EU for an indefinite extension but its highly unlikely. Positivity should always go hand in hand with a dose of realismbriantrumpet wrote:
Well, perhaps we should. Think positive, and anything's possible.Stevo 666 wrote:
No we don't...briantrumpet wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMxRDTfzgpUStevo 666 wrote:Time is is not limitless here even there there is another extension. And given what has happened after the last extension, there is not a lot of evidence that another one will do much good."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Very unlikely, but after today, I'm not sure of much. Given how utterly incompetent Corbyn is at opposing anything (well, at anything at all), it's been a minor miracle that both May and especially Johnson have been thwarted so many times.Stevo 666 wrote:
I know you want that to happen: how likely do you think that is and how do you see it happening?briantrumpet wrote:
Ah, that 'indefinite extension' is called 'revoking Article 50', and it's totally cool, totally legal. More legal than Johnson thinking that sending an unsigned letter gets him out of asking for a short extension.Stevo 666 wrote:
I'm happy for anyone to try asking the EU for an indefinite extension but its highly unlikely. Positivity should always go hand in hand with a dose of realismbriantrumpet wrote:
Well, perhaps we should. Think positive, and anything's possible.Stevo 666 wrote:
No we don't...briantrumpet wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMxRDTfzgpUStevo 666 wrote:Time is is not limitless here even there there is another extension. And given what has happened after the last extension, there is not a lot of evidence that another one will do much good.0 -
briantrumpet wrote:...it's been a minor miracle that both May and especially Johnson have been thwarted so many times.
Sure but Corbyn does not cast more than 1 vote, there are 646(?) other members (eligible to vote on this issue) in the house of commons.
I think it's more of a miracle that May and Johnson have not succeeded (yet) despite the overwhelming Brexit press like the Daily Heil etc.mfin wrote:...but one was fuller as it had a floating turd in it.
That floating Turd is principally Rees Mogg and the ERG and perhaps not the wider public. It's more than feasible that the ERG was placing more pressure on Cameron to give a referendum than UKIP.
If we took the ERG (the Maastricht 'bastards') completely out of the equation, the current quagmire might not even be happening. In fact, the Tory party might be a more credible party of government and the political landscape would be quite different.
...and to think they are funded by Taxpayers.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
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briantrumpet wrote:
Very unlikely, but after today, I'm not sure of much. Given how utterly incompetent Corbyn is at opposing anything (well, at anything at all), it's been a minor miracle that both May and especially Johnson have been thwarted so many times.Stevo 666 wrote:
I know you want that to happen: how likely do you think that is and how do you see it happening?briantrumpet wrote:
Ah, that 'indefinite extension' is called 'revoking Article 50', and it's totally cool, totally legal. More legal than Johnson thinking that sending an unsigned letter gets him out of asking for a short extension.Stevo 666 wrote:
I'm happy for anyone to try asking the EU for an indefinite extension but its highly unlikely. Positivity should always go hand in hand with a dose of realismbriantrumpet wrote:
Well, perhaps we should. Think positive, and anything's possible.Stevo 666 wrote:
No we don't...briantrumpet wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMxRDTfzgpUStevo 666 wrote:Time is is not limitless here even there there is another extension. And given what has happened after the last extension, there is not a lot of evidence that another one will do much good.
Interesting comment, to me personally anyway, as it has challenged my thinking on the topic. I've had nothing but contempt for Corbyn, he has appeared to be a total clown incapable of landing a single punch on the most hapless government in modern times. However as you point out he's also patiently watched the oppostion tear themselves apart whilst stumbling from failure to failure. So yes, is Corbyn a genius for working this all to his advantage or are theTories absolute mugs for failing to get past him with a simple side step? Only history will provide the answer in several decades time.0 -
verylonglegs wrote:[l.. failing to get past him with a simple side step? Only history will provide the answer in several decades time.
Any money you like says that history will not find the answer in several decades time.0 -
verylonglegs wrote:Interesting comment, to me personally anyway, as it has challenged my thinking on the topic. I've had nothing but contempt for Corbyn, he has appeared to be a total clown incapable of landing a single punch on the most hapless government in modern times. However as you point out he's also patiently watched the oppostion tear themselves apart whilst stumbling from failure to failure. So yes, is Corbyn a genius for working this all to his advantage or are theTories absolute mugs for failing to get past him with a simple side step? Only history will provide the answer in several decades time.
Say what you like about Corbyn. He's managed to bring back reasonably hardcore socialism to the mainstream, which is an admittedly dubious achievement.You live and learn. At any rate, you live0 -
Jez mon wrote:verylonglegs wrote:Interesting comment, to me personally anyway, as it has challenged my thinking on the topic. I've had nothing but contempt for Corbyn, he has appeared to be a total clown incapable of landing a single punch on the most hapless government in modern times. However as you point out he's also patiently watched the oppostion tear themselves apart whilst stumbling from failure to failure. So yes, is Corbyn a genius for working this all to his advantage or are theTories absolute mugs for failing to get past him with a simple side step? Only history will provide the answer in several decades time.
Say what you like about Corbyn. He's managed to bring back reasonably hardcore socialism to the mainstream, which is an admittedly dubious achievement.
I think you will find that Steve0 was mainly responsible for enabling that.
And now Johnson can claim to have introduced the politics of the primary school to the mainstream with all the hallmarks of his big buddy Trump.0 -
Both of them directly appealing to headline making fringe opinions while a more moderate electorate (silent majority for want of a better phrase) have been abandoned by the two party system.Robert88 wrote:Jez mon wrote:verylonglegs wrote:Interesting comment, to me personally anyway, as it has challenged my thinking on the topic. I've had nothing but contempt for Corbyn, he has appeared to be a total clown incapable of landing a single punch on the most hapless government in modern times. However as you point out he's also patiently watched the oppostion tear themselves apart whilst stumbling from failure to failure. So yes, is Corbyn a genius for working this all to his advantage or are theTories absolute mugs for failing to get past him with a simple side step? Only history will provide the answer in several decades time.
Say what you like about Corbyn. He's managed to bring back reasonably hardcore socialism to the mainstream, which is an admittedly dubious achievement.
I think you will find that Steve0 was mainly responsible for enabling that.
And now Johnson can claim to have introduced the politics of the primary school to the mainstream with all the hallmarks of his big buddy Trump.
Time for electoral reform.0 -
Private Eye was right
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Pinno wrote:briantrumpet wrote:...it's been a minor miracle that both May and especially Johnson have been thwarted so many times.
Sure but Corbyn does not cast more than 1 vote, there are 646(?) other members (eligible to vote on this issue) in the house of commons.
I think it's more of a miracle that May and Johnson have not succeeded (yet) despite the overwhelming Brexit press like the Daily Heil etc.mfin wrote:...but one was fuller as it had a floating turd in it.
That floating Turd is principally Rees Mogg and the ERG and perhaps not the wider public. It's more than feasible that the ERG was placing more pressure on Cameron to give a referendum than UKIP.
If we took the ERG (the Maastricht 'bastards') completely out of the equation, the current quagmire might not even be happening. In fact, the Tory party might be a more credible party of government and the political landscape would be quite different.
...and to think they are funded by Taxpayers.
The erg may have exploited the presented that has lead to brexit but that does not mean the rg are the cause. The cause was already there. Poltics has become corrupted.http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.0 -
PBlakeney wrote:
Quite right. Apparently it comes down to only 650 people.Ballysmate wrote:I assume that if it had been 52/48 the other way you would be telling Leavers to suck it up.
A million people eh? What do we make of that? Not even the difference between leave and remain.
Or 64 million are quite happy to leave. Quite meaningless
I thought that was what the people on here who were against holding a referendum wanted?
So if you don't want the 650 MPs to decide and you didn't want a plebiscite, are people now suggesting we should go by who can turn out the biggest demo?0 -
I think it’s important that Brexit fatigue doesn’t mean a more sub-optimal outcome.
If it was fatigue that got through an agreement which is inferior to one previously voted down it would be a travesty.0 -
A lot of people who want a second referendum were also keen to point out that referendums are only advisory. So I'm not sure why they are so keen on another one?Ballysmate wrote:PBlakeney wrote:
Quite right. Apparently it comes down to only 650 people.Ballysmate wrote:I assume that if it had been 52/48 the other way you would be telling Leavers to suck it up.
A million people eh? What do we make of that? Not even the difference between leave and remain.
Or 64 million are quite happy to leave. Quite meaningless
I thought that was what the people on here who were against holding a referendum wanted?
So if you don't want the 650 MPs to decide and you didn't want a plebiscite, are people now suggesting we should go by who can turn out the biggest demo?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Not so much fatigue as I see it as a looming deadline. As mentioned above, we don't have a great record of using extensions to make great progress.Rick Chasey wrote:I think it’s important that Brexit fatigue doesn’t mean a more sub-optimal outcome.
If it was fatigue that got through an agreement which is inferior to one previously voted down it would be a travesty.
The main benefit of the current deal is that we will be free to do our own trade deals post Brexit (the relative benefits of those have already been debated)."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
Not so much fatigue as I see it as a looming deadline. As mentioned above, we don't have a great record of using extensions to make great progress.Rick Chasey wrote:I think it’s important that Brexit fatigue doesn’t mean a more sub-optimal outcome.
If it was fatigue that got through an agreement which is inferior to one previously voted down it would be a travesty.
The main benefit of the current deal is that we will be free to do our own trade deals post Brexit (the relative benefits of those have already been debated).
I think most normal rational observers see this deal as “harder” than May’s.0 -
Lots of reasons... yes, sure because we didn't like the result (let's be honest), but the disliking of the result was not just because it didn't go the way some of us hoped, but also:Stevo 666 wrote:
A lot of people who want a second referendum were also keen to point out that referendums are only advisory. So I'm not sure why they are so keen on another one?Ballysmate wrote:PBlakeney wrote:
Quite right. Apparently it comes down to only 650 people.Ballysmate wrote:I assume that if it had been 52/48 the other way you would be telling Leavers to suck it up.
A million people eh? What do we make of that? Not even the difference between leave and remain.
Or 64 million are quite happy to leave. Quite meaningless
I thought that was what the people on here who were against holding a referendum wanted?
So if you don't want the 650 MPs to decide and you didn't want a plebiscite, are people now suggesting we should go by who can turn out the biggest demo?
1) Because it was so badly framed: a vote on changing the constitution of any organisation would normally require more than a simple majority of those voting.
2) Following on from that, the prospectus was so poorly defined as to be meaningless (let's ignore any lies for now). If we were to take the 'Leave' option to have been based on the public utterances of its proponents at the time of the vote, leaving the Customs Union and Single Market was not on the ballot paper. You can't just change the terms of contracts once they've been signed because you think you can get away with it.0 -
Labour looking to add a customs union amendment
Ken Clarke's CU indictive vote fell by 3
The DUP may support it this time.
That's one to watch“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:A lot of people who want a second referendum were also keen to point out that referendums are only advisory. So I'm not sure why they are so keen on another one?
A referendum can be legally binding.
As it goes I believe that the only proper reason for a second referendum is for the approval of the deal by the electorate, though I'm not sure what a 'fair' alternative is if the deal is rejected.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
