Mechanical doping. Wow.

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Comments

  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    dish_dash wrote:
    Cycling Tips test out one of these motors.
    http://cyclingtips.com.au/2015/04/hidde ... they-work/
    Ha!
    "The small pin just above the bottom bracket is one of the only visual cues that something is different about this bike.".

    Of course another visual clue is the brick-like battery hanging off the saddle.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • slim_boy_fat
    slim_boy_fat Posts: 1,810
    I looked at the pictures but couldn't see the motor....
  • adr82
    adr82 Posts: 4,002
    kurbel_mit_motor_gradient_gro.jpg
    These obviously aren't the "undetectable" motors that the mysterious Hungarian engineer is claiming he can build! Popping the saddle off and shining a torch down the seatpost is going to let you find these in about 10 seconds even if there are no obvious external signs and the battery is removed, so the article claiming they could easily be used in the pro peloton is rubbish because a cursory UCI inspection couldn't fail to miss them.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    Slim Boy Fat wrote:
    I looked at the pictures but couldn't see the motor....

    That massive and probably really heavy saddle bag would look pretty out of place on a pro bike.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,910
    Interesting reading, I'd be interested in a pro-mechanics view of how easy it is to hide something like this, as I suspect a lot of opinions are coming from amateurs. For example (I'm a complete amateur), the shifters are so complicated that no doubt someone would be able bury a switch in them which would be almost impossible to find. Furthermore, as most pro bikes now have some form of ballast couldn't that be used to hide stuff? Finally, couldn't you run a power cable inside an internal brake cable?

    One solution might be to reduce the weight limit of bikes, but presumably there still could be a market.
    RichN95 wrote:
    Of course another visual clue is the brick-like battery hanging off the saddle.

    That's not the invisible option. The article states that it can be hidden in a water bottle, so presumably we need to look out for unusual discarding techniques of water bottles.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    TheBigBean wrote:
    Interesting reading, I'd be interested in a pro-mechanics view of how easy it is to hide something like this, as I suspect a lot of opinions are coming from amateurs. For example (I'm a complete amateur), the shifters are so complicated that no doubt someone would be able bury a switch in them which would be almost impossible to find. Furthermore, as most pro bikes now have some form of ballast couldn't that be used to hide stuff? Finally, couldn't you run a power cable inside an internal brake cable?

    One solution might be to reduce the weight limit of bikes, but presumably there still could be a market.
    RichN95 wrote:
    Of course another visual clue is the brick-like battery hanging off the saddle.

    That's not the invisible option. The article states that it can be hidden in a water bottle, so presumably we need to look out for unusual discarding techniques of water bottles.

    They are very easy to hide and absolutely impossible to detect just as long as you don't let anyone with eyes, hands or a brain within twenty yards of it.

    Here's the thing - read accounts from dopers like Hamilton and they were obsessed with 'glow times' and evading detection. The doctors are largely there to help avoid detection (doping itself is easy and done by amateurs). If doping tests where 100% effective then no-one would dope. Even 50% would be enough.

    So do you really think that anyone is going to ride around with a motor knowing that they would be guaranteed to be caught should anyone care to look?
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    RichN95 wrote:
    They are very easy to hide and absolutely impossible to detect just as long as you don't let anyone with eyes, hands or a brain within twenty yards of it.

    You forgot ears. The motor makes a noise.
    Correlation is not causation.
  • slim_boy_fat
    slim_boy_fat Posts: 1,810
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    Slim Boy Fat wrote:
    I looked at the pictures but couldn't see the motor....

    That massive and probably really heavy saddle bag would look pretty out of place on a pro bike.
    Sorry, it was a poor joke from an earlier discussion in this thread.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,697
    RichN95 wrote:
    Of course another visual clue is the brick-like battery hanging off the saddle.

    That's not the invisible option. The article states that it can be hidden in a water bottle, so presumably we need to look out for unusual discarding techniques of water bottles.[/quote]


    like a kid going to pick it up and shouting "feck me there's a battery in here!!"
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,697
    RichN95 wrote:
    Of course another visual clue is the brick-like battery hanging off the saddle.

    That's not the invisible option. The article states that it can be hidden in a water bottle, so presumably we need to look out for unusual discarding techniques of water bottles.


    like a kid going to pick it up and shouting "feck me there's a battery in here!!"
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • thomthom
    thomthom Posts: 3,574
    ddraver wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    Of course another visual clue is the brick-like battery hanging off the saddle.

    That's not the invisible option. The article states that it can be hidden in a water bottle, so presumably we need to look out for unusual discarding techniques of water bottles.


    like a kid going to pick it up and shouting "feck me there's a battery in here!!"

    A scene that could unfold like this..
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7O1yMRYSQo&t=0m8s

    "Oi, now you've broken the motor!"
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    Cycling Tips. House journal of Shane 'mutant' Stokes and Throbber_Forum. Integrity is the only undetectable aspect of their journalism.
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,910
    RichN95 wrote:
    They are very easy to hide and absolutely impossible to detect just as long as you don't let anyone with eyes, hands or a brain within twenty yards of it.

    Here's the thing - read accounts from dopers like Hamilton and they were obsessed with 'glow times' and evading detection. The doctors are largely there to help avoid detection (doping itself is easy and done by amateurs). If doping tests where 100% effective then no-one would dope. Even 50% would be enough.

    So do you really think that anyone is going to ride around with a motor knowing that they would be guaranteed to be caught should anyone care to look?
    RichN95 wrote:
    So do you really think that anyone is going to ride around with a motor knowing that they would be guaranteed to be caught should anyone care to look?

    I think the point of the discussion is how easily detectable they are. You have assumed that you can see one from 20 yards which, if that is the case, they would be of very limited use in the pro peloton.

    It is exactly the same as drugs - there is a known glow period (random bike x-ray) which doesn't mean you won't be caught by a new technique (Shimano's no. 1 mechanic disassembling your bike). Any form of cheating runs the risk of being caught, the question is only how big that risk is. Even Lance was eventually busted.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    Some people laugh at the UCI for checking for these things - because they are so easy to detect if you check ? Something is wrong with that logic. As for detecting them with your ears because they make a noise - does that noise drown out a TV helicopter, several motorbikes and thousands of cheering fans at the likes of Paris Roubaix or an Alpe finish in the Tour ?
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    Some people laugh at the UCI for checking for these things
    Do they?
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Bo Duke
    Bo Duke Posts: 1,058
    This is obviously a very real and serious problem. A new industry dedicated to cheating. :cry:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-int ... sed-doping
    'Performance analysis and Froome not being clean was a media driven story. I haven’t heard one guy in the peloton say a negative thing about Froome, and I haven’t heard a single person in the peloton suggest Froome isn’t clean.' TSP
  • adr82
    adr82 Posts: 4,002
    Bo Duke wrote:
    This is obviously a very real and serious problem. A new industry dedicated to cheating. :cry:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-int ... sed-doping
    "An article in Gazzetta dello Sport on Wednesday claimed that no fewer than 1,200 such electronic motors have been sold in Italy in recent years." - 1,200 in several years (or however long "recent years" actually means) isn't exactly a lot, considering most if not all will have gone to amateurs. You'd have to be incredibly stupid to use one as a pro because a) they're not very hard to find and b) unlike regular doping there's not really any room for doubt if you get caught with it. That's not to say there aren't pro riders that stupid, but I have a hard time believing it's a common thing at that level.
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    seems more to be the case of riders who dope thinking everyone must be at it. One main issue with CIRC is they took everything they were told at face value and the UCI have acted on that. Better than ignoring it completely just a bit sceptical this is actually happening in races though
  • salsiccia1
    salsiccia1 Posts: 3,725
    I'd suspect no rider in the pro peloton has actually tried this, but with technology progressing it might be possible to do it much more discretely in the not so distant future. This is the UCI future-proofing their rules and punishment, and is pretty sensible IMO.

    I mean, cycling has had enough credibility issues, without the risk that one day in the future a Tour winner gets disqualified for having an engine in the bike, FFS
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    RichN95 wrote:
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    Some people laugh at the UCI for checking for these things
    Do they?


    Yes and you don't have to look very hard on this forum to find them.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    1/28th of a horsepower = 35W. So I gather.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    I read an article that was moaning that the Granfondo circuit in Italy is becoming a bit of a joke, as if you take the top ten of every race, half of them ride with one of these in the seat tube... :lol::lol:
    left the forum March 2023
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    I read an article that was moaning that the Granfondo circuit in Italy is becoming a bit of a joke, as if you take the top ten of every race, half of them ride with one of these in the seat tube... :lol::lol:

    I'm not sure if this is better or worse than the actual medical doping that the Gran Fondo circuit used to run on... Cheaper for the participants, certainly.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    I'm not sure if this is better or worse than the actual medical doping that the Gran Fondo circuit used to run on... Cheaper for the participants, certainly.

    It's much much better, I would totally endorse it... it's a meaningless racing circuit made of 30 + years old losers and former PROs who have received lengthy bans... if they can stay away from harmful drugs and use batteries instead, it can only be a good thing
    left the forum March 2023

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